Rabbit behaving very strange

Hi, we have two male lop eared lion head bunnies, nearly aged 2, that have lived quite happily together since we got them neutered when young, very clean bunnies, very clean in their hutch and certain areas of our big garden, who groom each other, but since this summer one of our bunnies character, habits and personality has changed dramatically, we have took him to our vets and he was put on antibiotics for what she thought was a urine infection, but to no avail, I dont think our vets as good as their intentions are, are clued up on rabbits. The changes in our bunny was weight gain, his under chin has got rather large, he is pooing and weeing all over the place, everywhere possible, and is really messy underneath, the only difference in the summer was our fruit trees dropping their fruit and he was constantly eating them, but we've made sure since noticing his change that he couldnt get any more fruit, but hes still not right, I have found spots of blood in their hutch too!!! and his poos arent right, they are very moist and clumped together!! After his antibiotics the vet told us to give him the pro-biotic treatment which we did but hes still not right!! Hes withdrawn himself from our other bunny, who looks quite sad and lonely at the moment our poorly bunny just sits in one spot in the garden and doesnt move, hes constanstly trying to clean himself and his front paws are constantly flicking out at the front, our other bunny will approach him and nudge him, he just runs away (( Ive googled to see if there are any vets specialising in rabbits in our area to no avail, hope someone can shed some light, really want him to be well again
Also they have been having mice in their hutch, which we now make sure arent there when they go to bed at night, his large under chin has balding appearing on it too, but the vet said it feels fine

Can I ask what his daily diet is?

Elena said:

Can I ask what his daily diet is?

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They have a rabbit muesli mix which is gone by the morning, they have hay, and veg which can be carrots, celery, greens, but mainly carrots, they graze in our garden too

Ooh that's quite a bit of sugar. I would hazard a guess that that is the issue. The area under the chin sounds like a dewlap, this can get quite pronounced if they put on weight. It also sounds like the sticky poo (and 'spots of blood' which is probably marks from the sticky poop, I've made the same mistake in the past!) is being caused by too much sugar and not enough fibre or hay.

How much hay do they actually eat? And how much meusli do you give them a day?

The ideal diet for a rabbit should be roughly 85% hay, 5% dried food (pellets is best) and the remainder fresh vegetables and wild foodstuffs ie, dandelions. Carrots are very high in sugar and should just be an occasional treat rather than a staple of their diet. I would try to stick to leafy green vegetables, carrot *tops* are fine.

As for the lack of using their litter tray it could be related or it could be due to something else. I'm wondering if he's able to get in and out of his litter tray ok? Are they spread out through the place they live or collected in one area mainly?

Elena said:

Ooh that's quite a bit of sugar. I would hazard a guess that that is the issue. The area under the chin sounds like a dewlap, this can get quite pronounced if they put on weight. It also sounds like the sticky poo (and 'spots of blood' which is probably marks from the sticky poop, I've made the same mistake in the past!) is being caused by too much sugar and not enough fibre or hay.

How much hay do they actually eat? And how much meusli do you give them a day?

The ideal diet for a rabbit should be roughly 85% hay, 5% dried food (pellets is best) and the remainder fresh vegetables and wild foodstuffs ie, dandelions. Carrots are very high in sugar and should just be an occasional treat rather than a staple of their diet. I would try to stick to leafy green vegetables, carrot *tops* are fine.

As for the lack of using their litter tray it could be related or it could be due to something else. I'm wondering if he's able to get in and out of his litter tray ok? Are they spread out through the place they live or collected in one area mainly?

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Many thanks for your reply It seems strange that our other bunny is a picture of health and that both their diet has been the same since having them from babies, I think your right though I think our poorly bunny ate too much fruit in the summer, he was like a bunny possessed, he literally sat on the fruit as if guarding it, they have a large hutch, upstairs and down, they go downstairs for the loo habits, or at least they did until poorly bunny started doing it everywhere We put him on a diet like the vet said and he has lost some weight, but I noticed our healthy bunny was hungry so I started giving them carrots again, I shall cut out the carrots, and up the hay, and see how he goes this week many thanks once again, I really want him to get back to normal because they give us so much joy, they are little characters in their own right

Yes indeed! Every one of mine has had their own distinct personality

It's not unusual for one to hoard the food and manage to eat more. Some rabbits just eat quick and some eat slower. Also some have a tendency to a sticky bottom and some don't. Two of mine will tolerate sweet things much easier than Mini. She just has a bit of a weakness there that means it doesn't take much before she gets a mucky bum. A tablespoon of apple every couple of weeks is enough, much more and she'll have problems.

Just a note that any changes you make with their dried food to do gradually. So if you reduce it do it slowly. Similarly if you decided to switch to pellets (which I would recommend, it made a difference with Min) then start by having 75/25 mix/pellets for a week, then 50/50 then 25/75. Most of us here feed roughly one eggcup (two tablespoons) of pellets a day.

What area are you in? You might find if you start a thread titled 'rabbit savvy vet needed in #####' that some people local to you can make some recommendations.

Elena said:

Yes indeed! Every one of mine has had their own distinct personality

It's not unusual for one to hoard the food and manage to eat more. Some rabbits just eat quick and some eat slower. Also some have a tendency to a sticky bottom and some don't. Two of mine will tolerate sweet things much easier than Mini. She just has a bit of a weakness there that means it doesn't take much before she gets a mucky bum. A tablespoon of apple every couple of weeks is enough, much more and she'll have problems.

Just a note that any changes you make with their dried food to do gradually. So if you reduce it do it slowly. Similarly if you decided to switch to pellets (which I would recommend, it made a difference with Min) then start by having 75/25 mix/pellets for a week, then 50/50 then 25/75. Most of us here feed roughly one eggcup (two tablespoons) of pellets a day.

What area are you in? You might find if you start a thread titled 'rabbit savvy vet needed in #####' that some people local to you can make some recommendations.

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I cant thank you enough as much as I know our local vets try to help I dont think they are as brushed up enough on rabbits for us. I think we gave our bunnies pellets once and they was fine with them, we have guineas as well hence the muesli, but will definetly take your advice on board and will report back in a week to let you know how the poorly bunny is doing, hopefully much better, Just one more question though, can we change their diet daily? So up the hay, reduce the dried food and veg on a daily basis, so by the end of the week they will have the suggested 85% hay, 5% dried food (pellets is best) and the remainder fresh vegetables and wild foodstuffs, or should it been done over a longer period? Thank you

You can up the hay immediately. You can also tweak the veg you give straight away so that you're giving less carrot. As with anything bunny though, anything they haven't had before just give a small amount of first and wait a couple of days for any reaction to it ie, looking uncomfortable, excessive gut sounds, smaller poops. As for the dried food though take that a lot more gradual and change/reduce over a period of a few weeks. I would probably change first to pellets if you're going to do so like I mentioned above so 75/25 percentage to start with for a week (ie just a few pellets), then 50/50 the next week, then 25/75 the next week. Similarly if you reduce it do that over a period of a few weeks too.

You have been given some excellent advice above but I'll just stick my oar in and say IMO it is fine to reduce anything in the current diet eg give less daily ration of muesli and carrots and you will be fine to up the hay. Initially I would reduce the muesli and veg and up the hay available until they are having just an egg cupful of muesli each (or none at all, it's not a problem) and a very small amount of veg (no carrots). Worry about moving on to pellets later.

Some other questions I would ask are:-

You mention the poorly bun is trying to wash, do you mean his bottom or face (you mention Flicky paws) I wonder if his nose is wet or runny?

Is it rabbit muesli?

I'm only guessing here, trying to tie up all the information.

The loss of fur under the chin definitely isn't right. It often means it's getting wet - usually from a bunny dribbling cos there are sharp spikes (spurs) on his teeth. The spurs make it difficult for them to chew & can cause sores in the mouth, so they change their diet to soft "easy chew" food which then upsets their tummies. Buns with tummy ache tend to be inert.

I really hope that the vet checked your bun's teeth carefully.
You may not have a vet with their exotics certificate in your area. It might be worth while researching the net for a vet with experience in small mammals.

It seems strange that our other bunny is a picture of health and that both their diet has been the same since having them from babies

not strange to me.i have a brother and sister pair where the boy is sleek, glamourous, gorgeous and his sister (kept with him, on the same diet, mainly hay with a very few nuggets and some veg/herbs) is a fat biff! she's on a diet again but my, it's slow work. she has my sympathy, i can empathise!

happybun said:

It seems strange that our other bunny is a picture of health and that both their diet has been the same since having them from babies

not strange to me.i have a brother and sister pair where the boy is sleek, glamourous, gorgeous and his sister (kept with him, on the same diet, mainly hay with a very few nuggets and some veg/herbs) is a fat biff! she's on a diet again but my, it's slow work. she has my sympathy, i can empathise!

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Thank you all for the valuable info, I will get his teeth checked out although he does eat his muesli with no problem at all, there doesnt seem to be any signs of wetness around his mouth or nose area but maybe I wouldnt see it. Since losing a little weight Ive noticed his tummy still looks quite swollen, maybe a combination of everything that has been suggested is causing his problems. Will definetly reduce the muesli and stop the carrots. Thanks again

I agree with the rest of the advice. Less food and as much hay as they can possibly eat. You can get different types of hay to tempt them to eat more, things like oat hay, hay with herbs in, timothy hay, meadow hay.
Just one thing to check, the insides of his front paws. Do they look like he might have used them to wipe his nose? Look for dried, crusty skin. That can be a sign of a runny nose and infection.

To be honest it just sounds like he has a different metabolism to your other rabbit and he's just fat from the sugar. Just like some people can eat loads of junk food and not put on weight and others really have to watch what they eat because they put it on quickly. I would cut the food down as others have said and give loads and loads of hay (grass is just as good as hay, so if they're out in the garden eating grass that's fantastic too). I would cut out all fruit and veg and only give a few leafy greens, but swapping to herbs would be even better. Try parsley, basil, coriander and rosemary. (Chives are toxic like all the onion family.) I try and get my herbs from the supermarket at the end of the day when they're on discount for a few pence a bag.

Just watch your other rabbit, that he doesn't loose weight on the new diet. If he does you can just feed him some extra food on his own.

If you tell us where you live, someone may be able to suggest a rabbit savvy vet too :thumb:

Michelleox said:

If you tell us where you live, someone may be able to suggest a rabbit savvy vet too :thumb:

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Im North East Lincolnshire, I have googled for a nearby rabbit savvy to no avail

Mojo said:

Im North East Lincolnshire, I have googled for a nearby rabbit savvy to no avail

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Might be a bit far (Sleaford way) but these people are good and have been recommended by others on here
http://www.foxhallvets.co.uk/

You'd be better to post on here than use google.

RedFraggle said:

Might be a bit far (Sleaford way) but these people are good and have been recommended by others on here
http://www.foxhallvets.co.uk/

You'd be better to post on here than use google.

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Thank, I will definetly give them a try, me and my husband have just had a look at him ourselves, he doesnt look good, Im surprised our vet didnt see it, but one of his front paws has a red sore right in the middle of it, which will explain why hes flicking his paws out hes got a really nasty open sore next to his bum he has what looks like lots of skin tags underneath and is not only losing fur on his under chin but all under his belly region Is there anything we could bathe his sores with until we can get him to the vets tomorrow

Mojo said:

Thank, I will definetly give them a try, me and my husband have just had a look at him ourselves, he doesnt look good, Im surprised our vet didnt see it, but one of his front paws has a red sore right in the middle of it, which will explain why hes flicking his paws out hes got a really nasty open sore next to his bum he has what looks like lots of skin tags underneath and is not only losing fur on his under chin but all under his belly region Is there anything we could bathe his sores with until we can get him to the vets tomorrow

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We had him at the vets 2 weeks ago, she gave him a shot of antibiotics then we carried on for 4 days after with oral baytril antibiotics, this obviously hasnt helped

Foxhall have a Rabbit Vet on 24hr callout. You could take him this afternoon. If I was worried I would go today.

RedFraggle said:

Foxhall have a Rabbit Vet on 24hr callout. You could take him this afternoon. If I was worried I would go today.

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:thumb::thumb: