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Managing/treating chronic respiratory problems?

KateB

Mama Doe
Dill has been struggling with some kind of infection in his lungs for several months now.

Initially attempted to treat with Baytril & Bisolvon but it wasn't working so he's been on depocillin injections and bisolvon for 3-4 months now.

We got him relatively stable on injections every 3 days but 2 weeks ago he got really bad (2 weeks after having the myxi vaccine - single one) so went to alternate days with depocillin, a 5 day course of baytril injections plus metacam as well as the usual bisolvon. He was picking up quite well but in the last 24 hours seems to be getting slightly worse again.

We are going to the vet later but I want some more treatment ideas - our vet is very good but I know there is a wealth of experience on here, particularly using slightly 'unconventional' treatments (or not licensed on rabbits!).

Any ideas what else we could be doing/trying to help him?

Unfortunately a C&S is not possible as there isn't any discharge through his nose. He had an x-ray (conscious) a couple of months ago which didn't show anything sinister, but some slight scarring in his lungs.

He's an outdoor bun with a hutch/aviary that he enjoys bouncing about in and normally has 24 hour access. With this latest episode we moved his hutch into the garage (not used for a car) but can't move his run in with him so he's getting pretty bored too - and he can't see Goose & Willow next door so I think he's a bit lonely. We'd like to get him back outside for quality of life reasons but need to get better control of his illness first.
 
What symptoms does he have? Does he struggle to breath? Appear bunged up?

Just going on my experiences with Ginger, the only bun i've ever had to 'treat', some kind of immune system booster may be helpful, echinacea perhaps?

Also, and this isn't necessarily going to work for everyone, but i've been talking with Sky-O also - we've put Ginger onto a lower protein, different SS pellet - we've moved to SS Mature - she won the first bag in a competition from the RSPCA :lol:. She's just over 2, but the SS Mature also has a fair dose of Vitamin C. Yuo would not believe the change. It's been AMAZING. Ginger has got a real bounce to her again, something we really havent seen for a very long time. Now we dont know for sure, but i have discussed with my vet and she's said its very likely, that we're giving her already battered immune system a much needed boost with the Vit C. Her respiratory condition is better than its ever been in the past 2-3 weeks, shes only now sneezing rarely and the discharge has gone 100% clear for the first time since we stopped 'treating' and started 'managing'.

She's also on daily metacam for helping keep everything non-inflamed as metacam is an anti-inflammatory not just a pain killer :)
 
He sounds 'rattly' when he breathes, and occasionally coughs - it doesn't seem to be in his nose/sinuses at all and is all in his chest. His respiratory rate is higher (and increases when he gets worse) than it used to be, and when you watch him you see more of his body moving as part of the act of breathing. On bad days, his nostrils are more flared and he starts to hold his head higher than normal (he's not mouth breathing but it's like the first step towards it).

He's over 6 years old, so maybe making a move to the Mature food would be appropriate anyway - I'd been put off as we buy the normall SS in the 10kg bags to cover our buns and fosters.

Tell me more about the echinacea - I've used it but in tablets so I assume you're using a liquid form?
 
He sounds 'rattly' when he breathes, and occasionally coughs - it doesn't seem to be in his nose/sinuses at all and is all in his chest. His respiratory rate is higher (and increases when he gets worse) than it used to be, and when you watch him you see more of his body moving as part of the act of breathing. On bad days, his nostrils are more flared and he starts to hold his head higher than normal (he's not mouth breathing but it's like the first step towards it).

He's over 6 years old, so maybe making a move to the Mature food would be appropriate anyway - I'd been put off as we buy the normall SS in the 10kg bags to cover our buns and fosters.

Tell me more about the echinacea - I've used it but in tablets so I assume you're using a liquid form?

bump! :wave:
 
I feed the dried sort : Clicky so the buns can choose how much to consume

Thank you! Do they like it even when they're slightly snuffly? Mulberry is eating hay but turning her nose up at dried dandelions/any other dried plants at the moment, presumably her sense of smell is impaired. :?
 
If he is rattly when he breathes then I am guessing there is fluid on his lungs so maybe something like frusol liquid would help with that, might be worth asking the vet about it x
 
If he is rattly when he breathes then I am guessing there is fluid on his lungs so maybe something like frusol liquid would help with that, might be worth asking the vet about it x

Maybe rattly is the wrong word then - I have asked whether there is fluid there and she didn't think there was (as we lost Brownie to pneumonia it's something I'm quite paranoid about!). Maybe rustly would be a better description? Sometimes when he's picked up he sounds wheezy like an asthmatic.
 
I wouldn't vaccinate again. I don't vaccinate Grim, I my opinion it's just not worth it. The infection seems to come back stronger after the vaccine so I'd rather he be as heathy as possible for longer and if he did get myxi I think I would call it the end.

Do you have a nebuliser? This has been invaluable with an upper respiratory infection. Grim has a decongestant which its nebulised and it's brilliant. I'm at work so I can get the name for you later if it helps. He us also using f10 which was recommended by people here. It's anti viral and antibacterial and it gets right to the problem.

Being outside helps Grim a lot, especially the winter weather. It's hard to reply on my phone so I'll try and add more later.
 
I wouldn't vaccinate again. I don't vaccinate Grim, I my opinion it's just not worth it. The infection seems to come back stronger after the vaccine so I'd rather he be as heathy as possible for longer and if he did get myxi I think I would call it the end.

Do you have a nebuliser? This has been invaluable with an upper respiratory infection. Grim has a decongestant which its nebulised and it's brilliant. I'm at work so I can get the name for you later if it helps. He us also using f10 which was recommended by people here. It's anti viral and antibacterial and it gets right to the problem.

Being outside helps Grim a lot, especially the winter weather. It's hard to reply on my phone so I'll try and add more later.

We dont vaccinate either, as i can't run that risk.
 
Hmmm. We'd have to investigate the implications of not vaccinating - whether he can still go into boarding for example. Given that we foster, and have all kinds of wildlife passing through the garden due to the hedgerow at the end, we are at higher risk so it's not a clear cut decision.

We can't be certain that the vaccine is to blame for his deterioration - at the same time the weather round us was extremely foggy & damp for several days (the kind of damp that means everything is damp even where protected from rain) and moving him into a drier environment seemed to help him in combination with the drugs.

I would be interested in the information about nebulising, Jenova, thank you!

We moved Dill back outside at the weekend, but are confining him to his hutch overnight (with a snugglesafe) rather than his usual 24 hour run access. He seems brighter outside as he can run around and also can see Willow & Goose next door.

SS Mature and Coneflower are on order so we'll see whether that makes a difference.
 
Have you tried him on Septrin at all? Boris had similar symptoms initially (no discharge, no sneezing; just coughing and increased breathing rate) and he always responded to it incredibly well. Baytril had no effect whatsoever on him, it literally did nothing.
 
Hmmm. We'd have to investigate the implications of not vaccinating - whether he can still go into boarding for example. Given that we foster, and have all kinds of wildlife passing through the garden due to the hedgerow at the end, we are at higher risk so it's not a clear cut decision.

We can't be certain that the vaccine is to blame for his deterioration - at the same time the weather round us was extremely foggy & damp for several days (the kind of damp that means everything is damp even where protected from rain) and moving him into a drier environment seemed to help him in combination with the drugs.

I would be interested in the information about nebulising, Jenova, thank you!

We moved Dill back outside at the weekend, but are confining him to his hutch overnight (with a snugglesafe) rather than his usual 24 hour run access. He seems brighter outside as he can run around and also can see Willow & Goose next door.

SS Mature and Coneflower are on order so we'll see whether that makes a difference.

On the other hand, if you do vaccinate, yuo may find that it may compromise Dill even more, just something to consider perhaps.
 
Hmmm. We'd have to investigate the implications of not vaccinating - whether he can still go into boarding for example. Given that we foster, and have all kinds of wildlife passing through the garden due to the hedgerow at the end, we are at higher risk so it's not a clear cut decision.

We can't be certain that the vaccine is to blame for his deterioration - at the same time the weather round us was extremely foggy & damp for several days (the kind of damp that means everything is damp even where protected from rain) and moving him into a drier environment seemed to help him in combination with the drugs.

I would be interested in the information about nebulising, Jenova, thank you!

We moved Dill back outside at the weekend, but are confining him to his hutch overnight (with a snugglesafe) rather than his usual 24 hour run access. He seems brighter outside as he can run around and also can see Willow & Goose next door.

SS Mature and Coneflower are on order so we'll see whether that makes a difference.


With vaccinations a Rabbit coping with a chronic infection may not produce a full immune response to the vaccine, meaning that the vaccine itself will offer little if any protection. That is why the vaccine Data Information Sheet stipulates that 'only healthy animals should be vaccinated'. It is really best for the Vet treating the individual Rabbit to advise as to whether vaccination is appropriate or not as each case is unique, even if the chronic illness/disease process is the same as other Rabbits.

In a multi Rabbit setting there will be a 'herd immunity' as long as 85%-95% of the Rabbits are vaccinated.
 
With vaccinations a Rabbit coping with a chronic infection may not produce a full immune response to the vaccine, meaning that the vaccine itself will offer little if any protection. That is why the vaccine Data Information Sheet stipulates that 'only healthy animals should be vaccinated'. It is really best for the Vet treating the individual Rabbit to advise as to whether vaccination is appropriate or not as each case is unique, even if the chronic illness/disease process is the same as other Rabbits.

Exactly - we have been and continue to be guided by our vet on this matter, weighing potential benefits against potential risks.
We expected that if the vaccine was going to cause a problem that it would become apparent quite quickly, but after the usual day or two of being a little under par, he was actually on better form that he had been for a while post-vaccination until the 2 week point where either the vaccine, the weather or something else combined to cause a flare up.

I'll be asking again about alternative antibiotics but I think depocillin is thought to be more effective than septrin - not least because we know that the dose has gone in rather than him wearing it! He's a bit of a monkey about oral meds :roll: except metacam of course!:lol:
 
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Thank you! Do they like it even when they're slightly snuffly? Mulberry is eating hay but turning her nose up at dried dandelions/any other dried plants at the moment, presumably her sense of smell is impaired. :?

Sorry, I missed this!

It does smell quite strong and my buns turned their noses up at it to start with, but once they had tried it they loved it and willingly eat it. I think the strong smell helps when their noses are blocked.
 
Thanks to GrahamL - Dill loves the SS Mature pellets and we think they might be helping (he's certainly got his appetite for pellets back!)

And Mandifer - coneflower seems to be a hit too although it's the first day so we'll have to wait to see if it makes a difference.
 
I used to give Santa the echinacea tincture - a drop or two in a ml of water (I used to mix her bisolvon in with it), she LOVED it, she would snatch the end of the syringe and drink it willingly. It seems to have a flavour that most bunnies love, I always found it helpful for getting various meds down!
 
I used to give Santa the echinacea tincture - a drop or two in a ml of water (I used to mix her bisolvon in with it), she LOVED it, she would snatch the end of the syringe and drink it willingly. It seems to have a flavour that most bunnies love, I always found it helpful for getting various meds down!

Ooh; where do you get it from? :wave:
 
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