Treatment for GI?

I can't believe I'm having to ask this but here goes. Can anyone please advise on the current recommended/usual treatment for suspected GI or at least colicy pain and no pooping? I used to use Motillium and found it excellent but my vet tells me it's no longer available. he also states that metacopramide is useless. Whilst I do sort of agree that it's not great, I was left with only metacam and pain killing injections to treat Rupert when I took him to an emergency appointment yesterday.
Thankfully the inital injection and dosing at home of metacam and then the additional injection I gave him later has helped alot and whilst not 100% he is eating dandelions and spring greens and hopping about seemingly happily. I felt and feel very uneasy without anything to encourage pooping and thus would be grateful for the current meds used so I can do my usual approach and TELL the vet what I want!!!! (Poor vet but a girls got to do what a girls got to do and that's everything and anything for my buns and Basil cat for that matter!).

Treatment will depend on the exact situation being dealt with. Not all cases of gut stasis are caused by the same issues and there are times when gut motility medication is not appropriate.

Motilium (Domperidone) is still available

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/cancer/medicines/motilium.html

Metoclopromide and Ranitidine are also used

Cisipride (Prepulsid) was discontinued but Vets can now obtain it on a 'named patient' basis

THANKYOU.

I always preferred motillium but essentially the Metoclopromide and Ranitidine are still widely used. That's great. My current buns haven't suffered from GI before so my 'knowledge' was a year or two old hence my question. I shall march to the vets and explain my demands. I'm always very concious of the fact that my demands for my buns help other buns potentially too. I'm evangelical about bunny knowledge!

bunniesgalore said:

THANKYOU.

I always preferred motillium but essentially the Metoclopromide and Ranitidine are still widely used. That's great. My current buns haven't suffered from GI before so my 'knowledge' was a year or two old hence my question. I shall march to the vets and explain my demands. I'm always very concious of the fact that my demands for my buns help other buns potentially too. I'm evangelical about bunny knowledge!

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I'd change Vets. As previously mentioned it is not always appropriate to use gut motility meds. A full examination by a competent Vet is needed to ascertain if they are appropriate and if so which ones/which combination.

Gut stasis is usually a secondary symptom of another problem. The Vet would need to try to identify that too. Just 'demanding gut motility meds' may not be the best way to help your Rabbit and could potentially do more harm than good.

I live in a small town with 2 vets and the other we left as utterly appalling. Current vet is great but as with many vets not always entirely up to date with bunny issues. He's done us proud though and saved Milly countless times. I just find some (most-all?) vets aren't entirely au fait with medication and treatment but copies of Rabbitting on, internet stuff and his own research get us there in the end and I know he's much more bunny savvy than he would be without us!

But panic ye not. I'm an experienced bunny carer and if it sounded as though i was taking the issue of meds lightly I apologise as I did not intend that to be the case. Thankfully for our buns at least, they live with experienced, intelligent human carers with lashings of common sense. I initially fancied being a vet but am too emotional really so chose law instead. My research skills and love for animals combined are hugely useful when vets bunny knowledge is so often 'disappointing'...

The vet I was using stopped stocking motilium in liquid form and so had to provide ranitidine plus an injection of motilium instead. My guess is that motilium is still available in liquid form but the vet's management decided to no longer stock it, based on the needs of cats and dogs. I didn't think to ask why. Ranitidine isn't licensed for use in buns but I'm sure it will have been tested on them and the manufacturers haven't applied for the license due to costs.

My vet told me Motillium is no longer available as it kills people! My other great favourite-endumyicin ( not good at spelling these things sorry) was withdrawn in bunny size too. Such a shame. All too few drugs for buns and then they get withdrawn. It's a real pain-literally for buns.

I strongly agree with Jacks-Jane that rabbits should only be given gut motility drugs after they've been examined by a good vet.

Metaclop is a very good motility drug but only affects the upper GI tract. Ranitidine (zantac) only acts as a motility drug on the lower GI tract -caecum & colon. (There should always be something in a rabbit's tummy when metaclop is used, or it causes painful cramping)
Domperidone acts as a motility agent throught the whole length of the GI tract.

I've used all 3.

Domperidone can be difficult to obtain in liquid form, but is readily available in tablet form. This is no problem to an exotics vet. They grind the tablets to a fine powder, add KY gel to keep it in suspension & add water to the correct dilution, to make a liquid. We can't do it accurately enough ourselves.
A vet who does a lot of avian medicine will be well used to this.
My former vet Marie Kubiak now at Manor vets Edgebaston made up domperidone for us like this.

My other suggestion with a stasis prone bun is have you tried adding some wild plants to the diet to reduce the stasis? http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ried-given-your-stasis-prone-buns-tree-leaves
Marie started to offer wild plants to buns hospitalised for stasis after standard medication because she was so impressed by the results in thumper.

bunniesgalore said:

My vet told me Motillium is no longer available as it kills people! My other great favourite-endumyicin ( not good at spelling these things sorry) was withdrawn in bunny size too. Such a shame. All too few drugs for buns and then they get withdrawn. It's a real pain-literally for buns.

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I think your Vet was referring to Cisapride (Prepulsid). That was banned from sale in the UK as it was found to cause heart problems. But as previously mentioned it can now be obtained again under a 'named patient' basis if a Vet wishes to prescribe it.

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-p/documents/websiteresources/con019561.pdf

http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/puarticles/cisapride.htm

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?296856-Cisapride-availability&highlight=cisapride

My buns already have a good variety of veggies etc including all the herbs, pak choi, carrot tops, strawberry leaves, plantain, dandelions (of course), nastursian, sow thistle etc and grass. I think Rupert got poorly as he is heavily in moult and despite my best efforts to grrom and clean I think if we were all x-rayed our insides would be full of Rupert hair. He's Californian and I've never seen anything like it. I'm on anti-histimines as is Basil cat! I call him a 'one rabbit allergy extravaganza'!

Thanks for everyones help. I get worn out having to be on the ball with my bunnies in terms of health. I'm so cross vets don't seem to get enough experience working with bunnies. When I take my cat I know the vet will know what to do. With the buns I have to research everything. I got my vet the vet membership of the RWA and I've just given them lots of stuff so they can do a pinboard for National Rabbit week with info on vaccination, feeding etc. I do try but am nonetheless peeved it's always so hard-even for basics such as pain relief I have to battle. never mind. he is a great vet surgically and will always take on board what I've said, but just once in a while I'd like to not feel so entirely responsible for my bunnies veterinary care and treatment. Sorry. Moan over. Thank you all.

bunniesgalore said:

My buns already have a good variety of veggies etc including all the herbs, pak choi, carrot tops, strawberry leaves, plantain, dandelions (of course), nastursian, sow thistle etc and grass. I think Rupert got poorly as he is heavily in moult and despite my best efforts to grrom and clean I think if we were all x-rayed our insides would be full of Rupert hair. He's Californian and I've never seen anything like it. I'm on anti-histimines as is Basil cat! I call him a 'one rabbit allergy extravaganza'!

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Ooo that sounds a big problem!
The real gut movers in the diet after hay are the woody tree leaves & they can be fed with the hay portion daily. It's the lignin fibre that they need.
Thumper's grading from least to max gut mover is:
Apple, Hawthorn (suits most buns most of the time) raspberry/ bramble, blackthorn is at the top & maximally effective just now.

ETA While buns with a long coat do get into probs - usually angoras, the main reason for obstruction on fur balls is that the gut slows down anyway with the STRESS of moulting. It's gut slow down which is the big factor causing fur ball probs not vice versa! I understand what you are saying completely. I'm saying "Can we get his gut moving a bit better all the time so he'll be less likely to block?" The other big factor is that as the gut slows down, buns cut back on water. The ingesta gets thicker & is more likely to block. You wouldn't believe the number of buns who used to get bad stasis who benefitted from this simple measure.

Thank you. I do raspberry and bramble but not Hawthorn or blackthorn. We've 2 Hawthorne's near me-one white one pink. Are both OK at ALL times of the year please? Not sure I can track down blackthorn but will try. And I can definately do apple leaves. Rupert loves apple twigs but generally I've picked them when leafless but I can go out now and get him those.That's very interesting. I shall store this away in the bulging file named 'bunnies' in my brain!!!

bunniesgalore said:

Thank you. I do raspberry and bramble but not Hawthorn or blackthorn. We've 2 Hawthorne's near me-one white one pink. Are both OK at ALL times of the year please? Not sure I can track down blackthorn but will try. And I can definately do apple leaves. Rupert loves apple twigs but generally I've picked them when leafless but I can go out now and get him those.That's very interesting. I shall store this away in the bulging file named 'bunnies' in my brain!!!

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Sorry we cross posted my ETA. yes, both colours of hawthorn are fine. I remove the buds/flowers & berries. A small "accident" wouldn't matter but the buds & flowers are used for a medicine which is very effective at slowing down the heart -which we don't want. The berries is just standard not feeding buns food with small hard pips in cos they can break a tooth!
Twigs are great too. Benjie eats the whole hawthorn twig, wood & all. He's not as savvy as Thumper was & I have to take any thorns off for him!
Yes they can be used throughout the year but the leaves will fall soon. They like the buds in spring too but you have to limit those unless they're eating the whole twig, cos all spring growth, even grass, is a tad on the "rich side".

A tummy bunny needs quite a lot of this type of food regularly.
They'll also select the best one for them & vary it a bit. they're not being fussy though it feels like that - they're sorting themselves out!

ETA Blackthorn has Sloes on it & Huge very nasty thorns. It's easier to track down the bushes in Spring when they'r covered in fine small white blossom before the hawthorn. Blackthorn blossom comes out before the leaves, hawthorn after the leaves. The blackthorn leaves are only effective for stasis about now, when the sloes have ripened until leaf fall. Although they're found throught the UK they can be quite localised.