Going round in circles with Convenia:

Well after getting the latest culture back on Parsley's inner/middle ear abcsess we are due another vet consultation on Monday when we were considering Convenia. (having tried rifampicin, baytril (enroflaxicin), metronidazale, depocillin, genticin (topical) (and varieties of the above in combination, and with and without draining/flush etc etc).

However speaking with two different referral vets at the RWA conference they both said that the time convenia spends in the body of the rabbit before being passed through is literally about an hour and so really has no effect. I know some people here have used it but I am now not so sure about trying it - it seems to perhaps have more risks than positives if it stays in for such a short time. . .apparently they dont use it on horses either because of that.

I just feel we are going round in circles .. . (though fortunately despite having a head full of puss Parsley has neither head tilt nor a propensity to go round in circles!!!).

Where to go next?????

I would not agree to it being used on any of my Rabbits. IMO risks outweigh benefits by a long way.

marie_kubiak said:

I do have some concerns about Convenia I have to say. I used to use it in cats and dogs without any problems, but obviously they are very different inside to rabbits! The Pfizer rep has been so far unable to provide any independent data on duration of action in small mammals, but I have found that in various species the reported action duration is very different - 2weeks in cats/dogs, 12hrs in horses and less than 24hours in reptiles, which does not correlate well with metabolic rate and typical drug breakdown for these species. I am hesitant to use a potentially dysbiotic drug when I am not confident of the pharmacokinetics and it could last anywhere between a few hours to a few weeks!
Having said that, colleagues have used it in rabbits and other small mammals occasionally with no problems seen, but I would provide probiotics, possibly with Questran as Jane mentioned and keep a close eye on appetite and poos!

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Having seen Jane's info, I wouldn't be comfortable using it with my buns either I don't think:?
In no way an expert on this and not up to spec with all you have tried but was the culture one that could be dealt with long term penicillin?

I have treated a dreadful enclosed abscess in a sheeps foot with repeated injections of betamox LA.
It took a long time (a month or so of injections) but we DID win in the end. I carried on the treatment for a good week after all symptoms had gone.)

I know sheep are not rabbits, but equally I have in the distant past had some very good results with buns and penicillin. I find it less stressful for the rabbit than oral ABX too.

I will also add that I don't treat my buns without veterinary advice Just in case this reads like I would treat without the vet.

Geoff's people said:

Having seen Jane's info, I wouldn't be comfortable using it with my buns either I don't think:?
In no way an expert on this and not up to spec with all you have tried but was the culture one that could be dealt with long term penicillin?

I have treated a dreadful enclosed abscess in a sheeps foot with repeated injections of betamox LA.
It took a long time (a month or so of injections) but we DID win in the end. I carried on the treatment for a good week after all symptoms had gone.)

I know sheep are not rabbits, but equally I have in the distant past had some very good results with buns and penicillin. I find it less stressful for the rabbit than oral ABX too.

I will also add that I don't treat my buns without veterinary advice Just in case this reads like I would treat without the vet.

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we have tried injectible penicillin . . From the recent culture report the only one on the list of 'sensitive to' list that we havn't tried is convenia.

I know I am going round in circles with this - what makes it worse (in a strange way) is that he has had all his experimental cancer vaccine shots and sailed through them and is holding back the cancer . . . so I dont want this ***** inner ear thing to take him instead. We have been fighting it for about 2 years now.

We've used Convenia for an inner ear infection. For her it worked for 7 days and that was very clear. However equally I understand the concerns surrounding it.

Sky-O said:

We've used Convenia for an inner ear infection. For her it worked for 7 days and that was very clear. However equally I understand the concerns surrounding it.

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For me its more the fact that all the vets seem to think it will be turfed out of the body before it even has a chance to work that worries me - seems like waste of a risk.

Parsley seems fairly tough as far as side effects of most abx are concerned (though obviously we have to be aware of the possibility of those). there was only one he didnt enjoy - and that gave him a stomach pain - cant recall which it was now . . (not the pink one - that was fine).

Can you PM me dose you used (I am sure you have done this before - but as I say I am going round in circles - and have vets appt at vets request on Monday)

It's tricky one....

If they cannot suggest anything else then I guess you will have to try it at some point:?
You have such a close bond with him at least you know you will spot any potential problems ASAP.
Good luck whatever you decide hun!

parsnipbun said:

For me its more the fact that all the vets seem to think it will be turfed out of the body before it even has a chance to work that worries me - seems like waste of a risk.

Parsley seems fairly tough as far as side effects of most abx are concerned (though obviously we have to be aware of the possibility of those). there was only one he didnt enjoy - and that gave him a stomach pain - cant recall which it was now . . (not the pink one - that was fine).

Can you PM me dose you used (I am sure you have done this before - but as I say I am going round in circles - and have vets appt at vets request on Monday)

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With Tilly we used it before it had been heard of being used much over here. The first one she had was for head tilt. she was quite tilted. Two days after the injection she went noticeably more upright. She stayed that way for seven days and nine days after the injection she tilted right back down again. So we did it again and saw the exact same thing, so, for her, it worked and lasted in her system for seven days. So we reduced it down time wise and she had it every 7 days. She improved and improved and improved until she was nearly upright and was on it, once every seven days, for three months. She reamined upright when she came off it for many months (until what we suspect was secondary uterine cancer spread over her body and life became harder). It was dosed as on the label (i.e. by weight).

When Rosie had it, also for head tilt, we saw the exact same thing with two days and seven days and nine days.

I'm not recommending anyone else does this, this is just what we did for Tilly.

Sky-O said:

With Tilly we used it before it had been heard of being used much over here. The first one she had was for head tilt. she was quite tilted. Two days after the injection she went noticeably more upright. She stayed that way for seven days and nine days after the injection she tilted right back down again. So we did it again and saw the exact same thing, so, for her, it worked and lasted in her system for seven days. So we reduced it down time wise and she had it every 7 days. She improved and improved and improved until she was nearly upright and was on it, once every seven days, for three months. She reamined upright when she came off it for many months (until what we suspect was secondary uterine cancer spread over her body and life became harder). It was dosed as on the label (i.e. by weight).

When Rosie had it, also for head tilt, we saw the exact same thing with two days and seven days and nine days.

I'm not recommending anyone else does this, this is just what we did for Tilly.

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Thank you for that. I shall suggest we try that dosage and frequency at first.