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Dental buns -how much is enough?

VickyC83

Mama Doe
My bun has had to have two denials since the beginning of June. He's never had dental problems before. He's come round from the anaesthetics well both time, but the vet has questioned if it would be fair putting him through it every few weeks if he needs it again so soon.

He still runs round like a loon lol but it obv puts him off his food and makes him sore. My last bun was a dental bun and the vets kept going with the ops until he died.

I feel totally torn and don't know what to do.

Any advice or opinions would be really appreciated :)
 
My dental bun was diagnosed at 4.5 and had his teeth done conscious (controversial I know) every 4-5 weeks until the vet left the practice 18 months ago. Since then he had his teeth done every 5-8 weeks (8 weeks was absolute max) under GA and we never lost him to dental problems and he was 9 when we lost him to something totally unrelated (in May this year).

ETA - he was a very happy bunny and very placid. It took him a day or 2 to come round from the GA but then he was brilliant :love:
 
which are the problematic teeth, exactly?cause if it's just for a tooth or two and the problem comes from the incisors you can consider extraction.As far as I know the incisors can be also cut with something like a nail cutter, so that the bunny doesn't have to be under GA every time - but I wouldn't dare to do it myself! however it's less frustrating for the bunny.Bunnies can take food with their lips and tongues and they manage to chew food as long as the pieces aren't too big.The care after the teeth extraction is quite responsible tough. You have to syringe feed for about 7-10 days in the best case. But if your bunny has spikes on the back teeth and they're pretty much on all of them, it is a bit difficult to manage-best prophylactics is to make it chew as much as possible.
 
My dental bun was diagnosed at 4.5 and had his teeth done conscious (controversial I know) every 4-5 weeks until the vet left the practice 18 months ago. Since then he had his teeth done every 5-8 weeks (8 weeks was absolute max) under GA and we never lost him to dental problems and he was 9 when we lost him to something totally unrelated (in May this year).

ETA - he was a very happy bunny and very placid. It took him a day or 2 to come round from the GA but then he was brilliant :love:

Thank you :) that makes me feel better. I'm sorry to hear of your loss though x
 
which are the problematic teeth, exactly?cause if it's just for a tooth or two and the problem comes from the incisors you can consider extraction.As far as I know the incisors can be also cut with something like a nail cutter, so that the bunny doesn't have to be under GA every time - but I wouldn't dare to do it myself! however it's less frustrating for the bunny.Bunnies can take food with their lips and tongues and they manage to chew food as long as the pieces aren't too big.The care after the teeth extraction is quite responsible tough. You have to syringe feed for about 7-10 days in the best case. But if your bunny has spikes on the back teeth and they're pretty much on all of them, it is a bit difficult to manage-best prophylactics is to make it chew as much as possible.

It's his back teeth. He had his last op 11 July but he seems to be grating his teeth again already. I had my first bun 16 years ago who also had dental problems and I'm sure he had his back teeth removed.
 
I think it depends on the bunny and the problem.

Some bunnies would not cope with GAs that often, or not have a good quality of life in between, however some can bounce back quickly, and enjoy life in between.

I have Star, who had dentals every 2 weeks 2 days, and I've been 'under pressure' from the vets to have him PTS since early May, however, I knew it wasn't right for him because in between he was full of life. So I kept going forwards, trusting my knowledge of my bunny and listening for when he was ready. I also kept looking for what may help because it wasn't sitting right with me that it was 'just' spurs. After more extensive tests and a specialist consult he has been diagnosed with osteomyelitis. Now he is on treatment for that his dentals have come further apart because he is more comfortable. He still runs around and binkies and enjoys life; it was the right decision for him.

However, each and every moment has been 'is Star ready yet' and it's been challenging, and I've taken him to be PTs only for the vet to diagnose stasis (due to his regular GAs) and have that be treated.

I would say hear your vets advice, but trust your rabbit and trust your knowledge of your rabbit and you will know if and when it's right. I'd suggest reading the article link in my sig called 'Please Remember to Advocate for your rabbit'- it may help guide you and work out what you want to do.
 
I think it depends on the bunny and the problem.

Some bunnies would not cope with GAs that often, or not have a good quality of life in between, however some can bounce back quickly, and enjoy life in between.

I have Star, who had dentals every 2 weeks 2 days, and I've been 'under pressure' from the vets to have him PTS since early May, however, I knew it wasn't right for him because in between he was full of life. So I kept going forwards, trusting my knowledge of my bunny and listening for when he was ready. I also kept looking for what may help because it wasn't sitting right with me that it was 'just' spurs. After more extensive tests and a specialist consult he has been diagnosed with osteomyelitis. Now he is on treatment for that his dentals have come further apart because he is more comfortable. He still runs around and binkies and enjoys life; it was the right decision for him.

However, each and every moment has been 'is Star ready yet' and it's been challenging, and I've taken him to be PTs only for the vet to diagnose stasis (due to his regular GAs) and have that be treated.

I would say hear your vets advice, but trust your rabbit and trust your knowledge of your rabbit and you will know if and when it's right. I'd suggest reading the article link in my sig called 'Please Remember to Advocate for your rabbit'- it may help guide you and work out what you want to do.

Thanks. I was hoping you'd reply. I'll look at the link.

He seems to come orotund well from the GA but it's the not eating part. He shows no sign of problem at all until it's almost too late. I have Metaclopramide at the ready to get his tummy sorted. I wish they could talk :(
 
Thanks. I was hoping you'd reply. I'll look at the link.

He seems to come orotund well from the GA but it's the not eating part. He shows no sign of problem at all until it's almost too late. I have Metaclopramide at the ready to get his tummy sorted. I wish they could talk :(

What do you see as the first sign that something is wrong? How do you deal with it at that point? how long does he not eat for? Hw long does it 'affect' him for? also, what, specifically is the problem? I know you mentioned molar spurs, but is it always the same place? One tooth? Many teeth?

What's his diet?

Their eyes talk. Look in his eyes and they will tell you.

Also, if you ever want to ask something, or want a reply from me, then please do just drop me a PM and I'll reply as soon as I can (which may be after I have been online a bit if I'm thinking over what you have asked and the best way to reply).
 
What do you see as the first sign that something is wrong? How do you deal with it at that point? how long does he not eat for? Hw long does it 'affect' him for? also, what, specifically is the problem? I know you mentioned molar spurs, but is it always the same place? One tooth? Many teeth?

What's his diet?

Their eyes talk. Look in his eyes and they will tell you.

Also, if you ever want to ask something, or want a reply from me, then please do just drop me a PM and I'll reply as soon as I can (which may be after I have been online a bit if I'm thinking over what you have asked and the best way to reply).

The first sign is his appetite, he's not a greedy bun. He's always been a bit picky. By the time he shows this, his gut has slowed right down. I get him straight on the Metaclopramide, syringe water a bit at a time to keep him hydrated and also try to syringe recovery food and basically put whatever he can eat in front of him. I also get him straight to the vet.
He usually has a couple of days to get his tummy going before the GA. he comes round from it well as in running around, but it's the eating part that's the problem. But he is happy in himself. He jspwww doesn't seem to ave had a break from the vets in two months. Going there really does stress him. He does keep losing weight too.

I believe it is all of his back teeth. Always the same teeth too.

His diet is a mix of burgess pellets, with Wang bunny brunch. He went to bunny boarding last year, and stopped eating. The vet said there was nothing wrong, he was pining for me. The kbunny boarders managed to get him eating the bunny brunch. I came home early btw, couldn't leave him like that. I've tried everything to get him back just on the pellets, but he just won't have it. He has fresh herbs, veg, The problem is, he isn't a big hay eater. I've offered him all different sorts of hay but he just isn't interested.

After his first op he had an eye infectin, but that's all cleared up. His eyes are gorgeous and bright. The one thing that is concerning me at the moment is he sits grinding his teeth, surely they can't have grown back already? He's still eating but just being picky.

Thanks again, Kane the thread in your sig is amazing!
 
I wonder if it would be worth discussing having Metacam at home, so that when his teeth start to hurt you can dose him up on pain relief which should relieve his pain and get him eating faster than the metaclop alone. That's my single biggest tool to fight with my bunnies teeth.

Also, can you chart it? It may be that, say, exactly on 3 weeks and 4 days he stops eating, and you might then find that if you can find a pattern, that a check a day or two before that would mean he culd have his dental then, and recover quicker and have less issues in terms of getting in the way of life and feeling rubbish.

I have some that do what yours does, which is appear at deaths door straight away, with no indication that it's going to happen, but equally, some of my others I can pick up through strange behaviour like Star starts to lie down more when he needs a dental, and he also hangs around in a different place. Sky drinks less before losing his appetite, Butterfly gets skinny hips yet still shovels the food in. But you have my sympathy if he does an 'I'm totally, totally fine... wait, I'm going to die I feel awful' type thing because you can't do much about that other than be ready and armed- having Metacam on hand, and knowing the dose to use and when to use it (i.e. to keep him eating prior to seeing the vets, for example) could make the world of difference.
 
Is he on pain killers as soon as he shows signs of slowing down, and after the dental too? If he is maybe talk to your vet about upping the dose.

Time between dentals can be lengthened, if you can change his diet, but if he's not eating the time between them is going to stay short.

Some vets can/will also take the teeth down further, rather than just taking the points off, and reshape them - this can extend the time between dentals too.

Keep an eye on poos, I find these very helpful in judging how much hay my buns are eating, which I find is one of the first things mine go off.

I also keep fibreplex and recovery food at home at all times, so I can get more into him if need be, as the gut needs food and fibre to speed up again.
 
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My bunny Leo developed dental issues in old age, I'm lucky our senior vet can do tooth clipping without GA but he's the only one at the practice who can. Leo is feisty at times but is putty in the vets arms he just seems to trance when he had his teeth done. At one stage it was every few weeks then one fell out and the other few left have stopped growing or falling out.
Can't risk GA with Leo health and age wise as he is around 15 now.
Despite a lack of teeth he manages to eat. Always has and will still eat toast, weetabix dry etc...
His teeth affected his eyes if those start it's a sure sign we are in for a rough patch, I can always tell by his eyes and posture!

Now dentals issues have gone quiet it's now replaced with snuffles, phnumonia, and eye infections plus arthritis - never a quiet spell with Leo's health as we are about to start the dreaded annual moult!
I'm also worried about a very prominent kidney so vets again next week.

Hope you get on ok:wave:
 
Have you seen a specialist? If you can get to Harrogate I would ask for a referral to Francis Harcourt Brown. Our vet sent us there after he was unable to improve Scarlet's dental issues. She uses one technique where she removes the pulp from the teeth which stops them growing, this wasn't appropriate for Scarlet so we have had several extractions of her back teeth.
 
I wonder if it would be worth discussing having Metacam at home, so that when his teeth start to hurt you can dose him up on pain relief which should relieve his pain and get him eating faster than the metaclop alone. That's my single biggest tool to fight with my bunnies teeth.

Also, can you chart it? It may be that, say, exactly on 3 weeks and 4 days he stops eating, and you might then find that if you can find a pattern, that a check a day or two before that would mean he culd have his dental then, and recover quicker and have less issues in terms of getting in the way of life and feeling rubbish.

I have some that do what yours does, which is appear at deaths door straight away, with no indication that it's going to happen, but equally, some of my others I can pick up through strange behaviour like Star starts to lie down more when he needs a dental, and he also hangs around in a different place. Sky drinks less before losing his appetite, Butterfly gets skinny hips yet still shovels the food in. But you have my sympathy if he does an 'I'm totally, totally fine... wait, I'm going to die I feel awful' type thing because you can't do much about that other than be ready and armed- having Metacam on hand, and knowing the dose to use and when to use it (i.e. to keep him eating prior to seeing the vets, for example) could make the world of difference.

I've been thinking about meta am. I'm going to ask next time I go to the vets.is it possible to buy metacam and Metaclopramide online?

I'm also trying to chart it, I need to stop being a nervous wreck though lol.

I've also got an otoscope, sounds daft I know but I can try to keep an eye on him that way rather than constantly going to the vets. It's so frustrating, I know someone who feeds their bun all the things they shouldn't, yet he's so healthy.

Thanks again for your help :)
 
Is he on pain killers as soon as he shows signs of slowing down, and after the dental too? If he is maybe talk to your vet about upping the dose.

Time between dentals can be lengthened, if you can change his diet, but if he's not eating the time between them is going to stay short.

Some vets can/will also take the teeth down further, rather than just taking the points off, and reshape them - this can extend the time between dentals too.

Keep an eye on poos, I find these very helpful in judging how much hay my buns are eating, which I find is one of the first things mine go off.

I also keep fibreplex and recovery food at home at all times, so I can get more into him if need be, as the gut needs food and fibre to speed up again.
Hi :)

The vet only sent him home with Metaclopramide, so I'm going to ask for meta am next time.

I'm doing everything I can to change his diet. I've asked the vet to burr his teeth down as much as they can. I've got fibreplex and stuff in too. Though I end up wearing it most of the time lol.
 
My bunny Leo developed dental issues in old age, I'm lucky our senior vet can do tooth clipping without GA but he's the only one at the practice who can. Leo is feisty at times but is putty in the vets arms he just seems to trance when he had his teeth done. At one stage it was every few weeks then one fell out and the other few left have stopped growing or falling out.
Can't risk GA with Leo health and age wise as he is around 15 now.
Despite a lack of teeth he manages to eat. Always has and will still eat toast, weetabix dry etc...
His teeth affected his eyes if those start it's a sure sign we are in for a rough patch, I can always tell by his eyes and posture!

Now dentals issues have gone quiet it's now replaced with snuffles, phnumonia, and eye infections plus arthritis - never a quiet spell with Leo's health as we are about to start the dreaded annual moult!
I'm also worried about a very prominent kidney so vets again next week.

Hope you get on ok:wave:

Aww good luck to little Leo! I hope he's ok.

I wish we could just extract his teeth, it'd solve it all :)
 
Have you seen a specialist? If you can get to Harrogate I would ask for a referral to Francis Harcourt Brown. Our vet sent us there after he was unable to improve Scarlet's dental issues. She uses one technique where she removes the pulp from the teeth which stops them growing, this wasn't appropriate for Scarlet so we have had several extractions of her back teeth.

Ooh thanks for that. How is Scarlett now?

I've asked about extractions of bunzles teeth but the bet says they can't do it.

Do you know e number to get in touch with the specialist?
 
Thank you :) that makes me feel better. I'm sorry to hear of your loss though x

Thank you.

As Sky-O says it is a good idea to to diarise it and see how often they need doing. This is what we did and it became a routine. There were the odd occasions when it was a rush job and luckily our vet would admit him the same day. If you explain to your vet why you want the metacam they should let you have some as an emergency.

I have read about the new process that FHB does but don't know much about it. Could be an option though.
 
A couple of things strike me - the first has been covered off by others, i.e. asking the vet to burr the teeth right down and reshape them so they grow back more slowly and in better shape.

Also, is it possible that the refusal to eat properly isn't actually due to teeth overgrowing but is due to something else, and it is the refusal to eat properly which is causing the tooth overgrowth? It could even be that he is particularly sensitive to pain or has particularly painful teeth, and therefore is feeling in constant discomfort after the first dental and that is making the problem continue. If this is a new problem which came on suddenly and now won't settle, I would be thinking about trying a different vet before pts if it does get to a crisis point.

Good luck xx
 
Have x-rays been taken to see if there is any root elongation? Treatment would not be any different than what has already been mentioned, just a case of keeping on top of things but you would know what you were dealing with.
 
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