Desperately need advice, opinions, ideas - PLEASE.

I am so desperate here, Please if you are reading this could I just have any kind of input, even if you haven't experienced it, just thoughts on what you would do. I'll try & keep it short.

Four weeks ago Rhia had a few days not eating/being very poorly. We felt there was something underlying, that it wasnt 'just' stasis. Had Xrays & bloods done, checked teeth, ears (Shes had probs before) etc, all normal. The vet said it seemed to be her back that she was experiencing pain from and as no tumors etc, we put it down to an injury. Shes hasnt been herself, but hasn't been 'poorly'. Until Thursday. She is now very poorly, this is day 5 of her not eating. She is in great pain but we just do not know where from. Her back is now not tender. It was abdominal but she is now not tender there...or anywhere that we can find. She has started dribbling this morning, and last night I really believed she was leaving us. Her breathing has just started to faulter, and the vet said this morning that he can feel something he hasnt felt before - which he is hoping is her kidney, and its just been pushed back by her ceacums before. We have some options, and all of them make me sick to my stomach. The medication she is on, is covering everything, gut stimulant, iv fluids, pain relief (rhumicam & vertegestic), antibiotics, rantidine (sp?).

We A) Open her up & see if we can find whats going wrong. There is definitely something underlying here....What??? It is so high risk but I just dont know what we can do otherwise.

B) Put a feeding tube down her & hope we can get her stronger before carrying out futher tests (Rhia cannot be syringed, she works herself up so much that she ends up gasping for breath & it worsens her condition which at this stage, i dont think there IS a 'worse step' - even the vet has said they advise against it too after seeing just how she reacts)

C) ????????? I am at a loss, the vet is at a loss.

What on earth would you do??

Hi, I'm sorry Rhia is so poorly I have never been in that situation, but as she's getting worse I think I would go for the open her up option time may be of the essence, and it will be high risk but it also might save her I think that's what I would do. Sending tons of vibes for her xxx

The only suggestion I've got to offer is to ask if the vet dealing with her case is a specialist or has consulted a specialist. If not then I wouldn't be happy about either option without specialist input. Especially if tests haven't found anything of note then I would only want somebody really experienced in rabbit internals to open her to have a look as they would have more chance of seeing something untoward purely through experience. I'd be really reluctant to go for this option because of the risk of surgical adhesions afterwards. I'd kind of hope that they had a hunch before they 'went in' but of course there may not be any clues to give them that hunch. But then of course if there's obviously something seriously wrong you can't just hope it will go away

Both options sound scary and she's a really special bunny, I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

Can your vet do ultrasound scans- they may be able to give you more idea of what is going on before you go ahead with an ex-lap. As she is obviously worse and the vet suspects he can feel something, it may also be worth re-doing x-rays and bloods.
Hope you find a solution to her illness.

Thank You both. My vet is wonderful, but has spoken to & intends to speak to more specialists this weekend. I just love her so, so much.

halfpenny said:

Can your vet do ultrasound scans- they may be able to give you more idea of what is going on before you go ahead with an ex-lap. As she is obviously worse and the vet suspects he can feel something, it may also be worth re-doing x-rays and bloods.
Hope you find a solution to her illness.

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They have been re-done, again nothing abnormal

I will ask him to do an ultrasound tomorrow, Thank you xxx

Have her teeth been thoroughly checked? X

Are you near anywhere that could do an MRI or CAT scan?

RedFraggle said:

Are you near anywhere that could do an MRI or CAT scan?

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Im not sure, How could I find out? I can ring round/ask my vet tomorrow.

Her teeth were checked under GA a few weeks ago & there were tiny, tiny spurs (Nothing which they would have been interested in, had she not been under GA anyway) so they were burred. But when she does show interest in food, its hard stuff - she wont touch any form of mush or anything.

Could what the Vet is feeling in her abdomen be the mesenteric lymph node? This could be enlarged as a result of a severe infection somewhere

The drooling seems to indicate Dental issues and given Rhia's history of Ear and RT infections I would think a tooth root abscess is high on the list of suspects. Have skull Radiographs been taken ? Believe it or not Rabbits with tooth root abscess pain do tend to keep eating pellets but not softer food. It is rather like when we have toothache and just have to bite hard on something :?

I would definitely not opt for an exploratory laparotomy other than as a very last resort. I am wondering if the primary problem is not even in her guts at all. But because she has been anorexic for so long her guts have now become a secondary problem

Sorry to hear that she isn't feeling well

My bunny is exceptionally sensitive and the teeniest tiniest molar spurs bother her. The vet has seen lots of buns with larger spikes who lead perfectly normal lives and will never need a dental, so its really difficult for a vet to tell whether the spikes would bother her or not as all buns are different.

I would be highly suspicious that it is her teeth.

I hope she is feeling better soon

xxx

Thank You so much. This has given me so much hope already. Just having ideas helps. So, I need to get an ultrasound scan done, a skull X-ray (Jane, can they do this conscious? She is constantly asleep so wouldn't be wiggling around or anything?), and see about a cat and MRI scan. The tooth root thing really would make sense, as twice we have seen her paw her mouth tonight. I will ask about all of this in the morning when he sees her. I am going out of my mind. I thought she had given up last night.

I think getting a skull radiograph without some sedation would be tricky.

Jack's-Jane said:

I think getting a skull radiograph without some sedation would be tricky.

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I guess if the vet thinks there is a chance she'd survive GA for the opening up, she might cope with as little sedation as we can manage with to get a skull X-ray? I won't have her opened up. If she leaves me I want to be with her & her to be warm and cosy and snuggled up. Not on an operating table, cold without those who love the bones of her.

Lots of vibes for your bunny xx

there is not much I can add to Janes suggested diagnosis -

but just to say that if she is in a lot of pain and receiving bupronorphine for that then he will be very vry sleeping and her guts will slow -

we use ketamine as a pain killer which works very very well for abcsess pain and other pain without causing the sleepiness or gut slowdown.

It has revolutionised our struggles with pain killer induced general and gut slow down.

PS presuming NOt on metacam by now as if no food inside her this will be causing ulcers by now.

Excellent advice has already been given.

I really hope that the cause of Rhia's problems can be diagnosed and dealt with very, very soon.

Best of luck in whatever course of action you decide. xxx

Thanks all. We thought we'd turned a corner as she started picking at bramble leaves. She'd now back to not eating but vet said her tummy feels more normal than it did. She's having skill X-rays done on Friday xx

I've no further suggestions/ advice than has already been given. Teeth do seem suspect here I would agree.

Do you have any Oxbow critical care to give her? My buns tend to take this easily by syringe or will lap it up. they also do it in a couple of different flavours. The fine blend is very smooth if you do have to syringe.

I hope you can get some answers and she makes a full recovery.

i can't really offer any advice sorry, except to say that bisc had teeth problems (we didn't know it was teeth at the time) and he became very poorly, anaemic, anorexic etc. not the same symptoms but just an example of how ill they can get with dental problems.

sending lots of vibes, i hope you get some answers soon. x