Bladder op to remove sluge-any experience of this?

Milly had bladder surgery yesterday to remove sluge. She didn't have any stones but the sludge had caused her alot of pain and discomfort. She's actually remarkably perky but I've never been through this before and would be grateful for any help/advice from others who have experience in this. I've also posted on diet, but even with diet changes is the sludge likely to reoccur? Is there anything else that can be done? Milly is approx: 3 years old, a medium lop. She has molar problems with her teeth needing filing down approx 8 weekly at the moment. She's in otherwise good health, active and feisty. She eats Excel junior (as little for teeth) and has had alot of veggies. She won't eat hay-I assume as teeth an
issue. She basically started drinking lots and lots of water and emptying her litter tray everywhere. She was also wet with urine. It was clear she couldn't manage without intervention hence badder surgery. I'd be so grateful for any help/tips anyone can offer. I feel responsible for this as I'd always fed alot of veggies as believed this was a good diet for bunnies. Feel awful now.

bunniesgalore said:

Milly had bladder surgery yesterday to remove sluge. She didn't have any stones but the sludge had caused her alot of pain and discomfort. She's actually remarkably perky but I've never been through this before and would be grateful for any help/advice from others who have experience in this. I've also posted on diet, but even with diet changes is the sludge likely to reoccur? Is there anything else that can be done? Milly is approx: 3 years old, a medium lop. She has molar problems with her teeth needing filing down approx 8 weekly at the moment. She's in otherwise good health, active and feisty. She eats Excel junior (as little for teeth) and has had alot of veggies. She won't eat hay-I assume as teeth an
issue. She basically started drinking lots and lots of water and emptying her litter tray everywhere. She was also wet with urine. It was clear she couldn't manage without intervention hence badder surgery. I'd be so grateful for any help/tips anyone can offer. I feel responsible for this as I'd always fed alot of veggies as believed this was a good diet for bunnies. Feel awful now.

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Some vegetables are higher in calcium than others, such as spinach and kale. Spring greens are ok. I will come back with more help if I can find it in one of my books.

Hi there. I've found a bit of information in the Winter 2010 Issue of Rabbiting On for eg a fibrous diet with less pellets is advisable(so maybe a high fibre pellet would be good) Excel junior may be too high in calcium, although I don't know for sure. Also it recommends grass over hay as grass has more moisture. I will come backmif I find anymore info.

My bun Bo had an op about 3 months ago to remove a bladder stone. No teeth issues but he also had a wet bottom. As we are having problems again with him I will watch this thread with interest reguarding diet esp. Hope Milly is ok.

My soulmate, Artie had bladder surgery (cystotomy) just over 3 years go for bladder sludge, no stones that I'm aware of. He does have ongoing problems with bladder sludge unfortunately and we have accepted that we have to control them rather than cure them.

He is on daily Metacam as an anti-inflammatory as the sludge could irritate the lining of his bladder - his condition was discovered because he was in acute discomfort, not eating then did a massive wee, it would appear that he had held it for a long time because it hurt to urinate. He's also on daily Furosemide tablets to make him urinate more to flush the sludge out. He also has his bladder expressed every few weeks (5 currently) to express the sediment and reduce the build up.

Since his op he has a few stasis episodes where the pain from infection has made him unwell. On these occasions he's had his bladder flushed and he goes on alright for however long. 2 years after the initial bladder problems he also went on to develop kidney stones so has since lost a kidney to that, this however is not common to have both conditions, so we were told.

He's also on a low calcium diet because of the bladder sludge and only now having one kidney. His vet says fluid intake is the most important aspect of his diet so he doesn't get dry food (ie no pellets, he does get hay) but gets plenty of veg... so don't go guilt tripping on the veg because if it was the right veg then that's the way to go anyway. Obviously teeth problems could complicate how you plan a diet. Artie tolerates spring greens well but grass is the best thing to give (re fibre and calcium balance) and he's getting as much of that as I can in season. Dandelions are also good as they are a natural diuretic, although high in calcium because they are diuretic it (in theory) washing the calcium back out.

I have posted his diet recommendations somewhere, I'll see if I can find it....
Edit to add: here it is:

FEEDING RABBITS WITH URINARY TRACT PROBLEMS

Rabbits with urinary tract problems such as kidney stones, bladder stones and 'sludgy urine' can benefit from a diet that contains sufficient, but not excessive amounts of calcium and is low in phosphorus. An increase in water intake and urine flow is beneficial to dilute excreted calcium in the kidneys and bladder.

INCLUDE:
Fresh Grass. This is the ideal food for rabbits, it has a high water content and has the correct amount of calcium and phosphorus.
Fresh Greens. These are mostly water and will therefore increase water intake which is beneficial. mostly, choose plants from the moderate and low calcium groups although the occasional plant from the high calcium group won't hurt.

High calcium plants: kale, broccoli, Chinese cabbage, watercress, parsley.
Moderate calcium plants: cabbage, spring cabbage, celery, lettuce, most culinary herbs and many garden weeds that rabbits enjoy such as raspberry, bramble leaves, leaves from fruit trees, ground elder, young dock leaves, groundsel, chickweed.
Low calcium foods: peas, beans, bread, banana, apples, carrots.
Wild plants such as dandelion, goosegrass, yarrow and plantain have diuretic properties ie they increase the flow of urine. Although these plants have a high calcium content they also have a high water content and are enjoyed by rabbits and are beneficial for rabbits with urinary tract problems.

Only offer SMALL amounts of a pelleted or extruded food especially if the rabbit is overweight. Dry foods have no water content.

Small quantities of fruit juice containing Vitamin C might be beneficial. Fruit juices are sweet and palatable and therefore increase water intake. Theoretically, they could also acidify the urine and decrease the amount of sediment that is formed. Cranberry juice is a traditional remedy for bladder problems but apple, pineapple or blackcurrant juice can be used instead.

AVOID:
Mixed cereal rations. Cereals, such as sweetcorn, wheat, oats and barley have a high phosphorus content that is potentially harmful.

(Green oat hay is alright as is oat/wheat grass as it’s just the seed part that is high in phosphorus).

Alfalfa in any form.
Vitamin or mineral supplements that go in the water or on the food.

The above was provided by Frances Harcourt-Brown who provides Artie's most excellent care.

Bunny Buddy said:

I have posted his diet recommendations somewhere, I'll see if I can find it....
Edit to add: here it is:

FEEDING RABBITS WITH URINARY TRACT PROBLEMS

Rabbits with urinary tract problems such as kidney stones, bladder stones and 'sludgy urine' can benefit from a diet that contains sufficient, but not excessive amounts of calcium and is low in phosphorus. An increase in water intake and urine flow is beneficial to dilute excreted calcium in the kidneys and bladder.

INCLUDE:
Fresh Grass. This is the ideal food for rabbits, it has a high water content and has the correct amount of calcium and phosphorus.
Fresh Greens. These are mostly water and will therefore increase water intake which is beneficial. mostly, choose plants from the moderate and low calcium groups although the occasional plant from the high calcium group won't hurt.

High calcium plants: kale, broccoli, Chinese cabbage, watercress, parsley.
Moderate calcium plants: cabbage, spring cabbage, celery, lettuce, most culinary herbs and many garden weeds that rabbits enjoy such as raspberry, bramble leaves, leaves from fruit trees, ground elder, young dock leaves, groundsel, chickweed.
Low calcium foods: peas, beans, bread, banana, apples, carrots.
Wild plants such as dandelion, goosegrass, yarrow and plantain have diuretic properties ie they increase the flow of urine. Although these plants have a high calcium content they also have a high water content and are enjoyed by rabbits and are beneficial for rabbits with urinary tract problems.

Only offer SMALL amounts of a pelleted or extruded food especially if the rabbit is overweight. Dry foods have no water content.

Small quantities of fruit juice containing Vitamin C might be beneficial. Fruit juices are sweet and palatable and therefore increase water intake. Theoretically, they could also acidify the urine and decrease the amount of sediment that is formed. Cranberry juice is a traditional remedy for bladder problems but apple, pineapple or blackcurrant juice can be used instead.

AVOID:
Mixed cereal rations. Cereals, such as sweetcorn, wheat, oats and barley have a high phosphorus content that is potentially harmful.

(Green oat hay is alright as is oat/wheat grass as it’s just the seed part that is high in phosphorus).

Alfalfa in any form.
Vitamin or mineral supplements that go in the water or on the food.

The above was provided by Frances Harcourt-Brown who provides Artie's most excellent care.

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Thankyou so much! Bo does love his parsley and baby sweetcorn so won't be impressed!

I tried giving him some jiuce but he won't drink any. Would it be ok to syringe a bit of cranberry juice in him or is it not worth it?

Our little Oscar~D has intersistial cystitis. And our bunny vet recommended ribena in his water, to keep him drinking lots. I must say it works, he loves it. Maybe give that a go?.

There is that new supreme wee wee food out that you can get from vets, it suppose to make them drink more. Don't know if it does or if it's a gimmick.
But my friend's bunny had 2 ops only months apart and had huge stones removed and she is 9. We couldn't believe how soon she developed another stone.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

This is so useful. I am so loathe to cut out veggies and in fact haven't (don't tell my vet!). Milly has her teeth filed regularly and so soft veggies are often all she'll eat. I will read all the comments again and give a copy to my vets. I wonder if it may be possible to flush out Millys bladder if needed when she has her teeth done-currently every 8/9 weeks? At the very least maybe she needs scans each time to see how the sludge is? I keep old copies of Rabbiting on and also read about diuretics. I wonder if they may be helpful too though also read that sometimes this can result in escess calcium being held by the kidneys instead? Since her op Milly has been astonishingly bright-racing around etc. We went to vets today and vet very pleased with her wound and condition.

Not heard of the Supreme food but will investigate. I think as ever it's complex. Milly needs to eat something and veggies do have a high water content. I also wash them and leave water on them which is extra fluids. Dandelions are a real favourite as is Pak choi and carrot tops. I think in truth we are unlikely to prevent further problems, it's reducing the regularity and severity and maybe regular scans and possible flushings may help avoid bladder surgery in the future? Thank you again.

Sadly Mills isn't feeling too good again. She was doing great but quiet quiet again. I've given her metacam and that helped but she does spend quite a long time in her tray. I wonder if she has cystitis or if this is because her bladder has become so sensitive? It could be that she's overdone things a bit but I think it's most likely bladder related. Back to the vets in the morning. Gutted that she's feeling poorly again so soon.