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Snuffles? What treatment? Help :-( VIDEO ADDED

Lea-Anne

Warren Veteran
Vincent had a snuffily nose when we first got him as a baby at 10 weeks. He seemed bright and alert but kept sneezing. It was a lovely green discharge. Yuk. After a month or so on abx it cleared and he very rarely sneezed after that, but it never 'went away' for good. He would often sneeze once or twice a day.
My vet has confirmed he is healthy and he had his vacs in Febuary (at 7months old). She thinks the sneezing could be damaged nasal passage from the severity of the infection or because he had it at such a young age. Is this possible? I got in tonight and he did a major big sneeze with a clear discharge. I'm now wondering if I need to take him back for more abx? He's had tons of check ups and she always says his lungs and chest is clear and he looks great :?
 
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All I know is that my BB has had abx twice in 3 years for snuffles.His sister, however was on it longterm.
 
I'd be very cautious. Our rabbit Boo was a bit of a sneezer, never any discharge at all, bright and bouncing, several vet checks and all ok. He very suddenly got very ill (went from I'm ok to I've got white snot and I'm really ill) in the space of about 36 hours and, despite antibiotics on the first day he was visibly ill, we lost him. We had only had him 8 months, he was a rescue bun and probably had a chronic pasteurella infection that was mainly asymptomatic. We were probably very unlucky, but our vet thinks a large proportion of sudden rabbit deaths are likely pasteurella realted and I will be insisting on antibiotics (at sensible intervals) if I ever see any sneezing in our buns.
That said, I know in rats upper resp tract infections can permanently scar the tissues giving a constant snuffle when there's no infection.
 
I'd be very cautious. Our rabbit Boo was a bit of a sneezer, never any discharge at all, bright and bouncing, several vet checks and all ok. He very suddenly got very ill (went from I'm ok to I've got white snot and I'm really ill) in the space of about 36 hours and, despite antibiotics on the first day he was visibly ill, we lost him. We had only had him 8 months, he was a rescue bun and probably had a chronic pasteurella infection that was mainly asymptomatic. We were probably very unlucky, but our vet thinks a large proportion of sudden rabbit deaths are likely pasteurella realted and I will be insisting on antibiotics (at sensible intervals) if I ever see any sneezing in our buns.
That said, I know in rats upper resp tract infections can permanently scar the tissues giving a constant snuffle when there's no infection.

This is what worries me :(
 
Would a nasal swab tell me more? Would it be worth doing bloods??

I don't know if the rabbit isn't actually showing acute symptoms, it might be easier and less stressful for the rabbit just to give a course of septrin. I'd talk to your vet again.
 
I don't know if the rabbit isn't actually showing acute symptoms, it might be easier and less stressful for the rabbit just to give a course of septrin. I'd talk to your vet again.

Thankyou x We went back the vets tonight :)- full check up, says his lungs and chest and heart all sound normal. She thinks the pasturella is in his nasal cavity and could be a long term condition (especially if his nasal cavity is damaged) - on off on off - that we are going to have to manage. She's given me two weeks of Septrin as he responded well to this last time. Since he's got back from the vets he's sneezed loads - obv stress of going did not help :(
 
Buckley's snuffles damaged his nasal cavities and sometimes he sneezes. Our vet said this is something he will live with for his whole life probably.

Just keep an eye on it. We find that bisolvon helps to keep Buckley's sneezes at bay.
 
Buckley's snuffles damaged his nasal cavities and sometimes he sneezes. Our vet said this is something he will live with for his whole life probably.

Just keep an eye on it. We find that bisolvon helps to keep Buckley's sneezes at bay.

Thankyou for posting. I feel I need more advise. So scared of what happened to fraggle's bun happening to Vincent.

Does your bun have a discharge at all or is just like a human sneeze ? That's what Vince's is like usually with no discharge. At the mo it's obvious snuffles though :-s
 
We went back to the vets 2 weeks ago now and he's been back on septrin the last 14days. Again, it seemed to be easing, the sneezing was practically non-existent then today he has a snotty nose again! I have been given more meds by the vets but I'm getting very frustrated. Just as I think it's working he'll change!
What else can I do? Do I ask for a culture test? Would finding out what we're dealing with help? Would it say if the virus was alive or dead? Sorry for my ignorance. I'm so worried
 
***NOTE: Obviously, i'm no vet, and as the yellow box at the top of this page suggests, you should discuss any and all treatments, be them medical or otherwise with a rabbit savvy vet - what i have written below is MY experience and is purely for informational purposes ***

Firstly, i would want a much longer course of Abx for any persistent 'snuffles' type infection. Snuffles is actually a name for a group of illnesses, so more describes the symptom, than the illness itself.

On top of this, it may not be snuffles at all. It can be many other things, such as a foreign body up the nose; eg a piece of hay, hay seed or other item, dusty environment, dental disease etc

Pasteurella is one of those and can come in many forms itself. Unfortunately, i know a fair amount about this as i have a relatively poorly bunny who will have Pasteurella for the rest of her life amongst other things.

I'm afraid this is going to be rather long and drawn out possibly for both your bunny and for you.

Here we go...

How many times does he sneeze per episode?
How many episodes does he have per day in any 24 hour period?
Is the discharge clear and watery, or is it white and 'snotty' like a human when they have a bad cold?
Is the discharge from only one nostril or both?
Does he have or has he ever had wet/runny eyes?
Has he ever had dental treatment?

Does the sneezing look like this? (I'm sorry if this distresses you) this was Ginger at her worst and occured at least 12-15 times per day.



Does your bunny have wet insides/tops of his front paws? (This is an indication of grooming the wet area with his paws - bunnies use their paws as 'hankerchiefs' for want of a better word)

What is your bunny bedded on? Newspaper ? Woodshavings ?

There are swabs your bunny could be tested with, known as a C&S Test - Culture and Sensitivity Test - this has to be given when bunny has NOT had any anti-biotics for at least 14 consecutive days, as Anti-biotics will give a false result. They then swab the bunnies nose and send it off for bacterial analysis to determine which and how much antibiotic is requried to fight. Be aware though, they aren't always conclusive.

There are a few abx that you can use to fight 'snuffles' that your vet may want to try but none of them are licensed for use in rabbits so you will have to sign a cascade form to say you are happy to use it but understand its not been tested. I've signed too many of these myself to remember how many!

Baytril is the only one i know that is licensed, but isn't as effective in RTI's in my experience, but every bunny is differnet, so it does help with some.

Septrin is a abx for children and is banana flavoured, so most bunnies love it, as do i :lol:

Azithromycin (Zithromax) is again a human anti-biotic suitable for rabbits and worked brilliantly for Ginger, but just couldn't fight it enough to clear it.

Depocillin (very strong) can be given by injection but can be fatal if injested orally, so either must be done by a vet or you can be trained to do it at home.

The other thing is stress, keep it to a minimum as stress in rabbits can bring on all sorts of illnesses and once a bun is snuffley, it can make it worse.

That's just a start, but please don't give up hope - snuffles buns can lead a full and happy life apart from being snot bags :)
 
If he has a culture taken he would need to have been off all abx for at least 7 days prior to taking the swab

Has the Vet discussed trying to get good drainage of the sinuses ?

Have his tearducts been flushed ?

Often the core of infection is deep within the sinuses, so trying to clear them may make systemic abx treatment more effective. This may include nebulising the Rabbit, clearing the nasolacrimal ducts and applying abx drops to them (which will drain into the nasal passages if the ducts are clear)

An non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam is also necessary to reduce the chronic inflammation within the nasal passages.

Treating persistent snuffles often requires a multi-faceted approach and it can involve weeks and weeks of ongoing treatment. Even then it may be that symptoms can only be controlled, not cured.

I would suggest going back to the Vets to discuss this and also to discuss the possibility of tooth root elongation being a contributory factor. If the tooth roots are elongated they can effect the nasal passages causing inflammation and chronic infection. Skull radiographs are needed to assess tooth roots.

Good luck xx
 
If he has a culture taken he would need to have been off all abx for at least 7 days prior to taking the swab

Has the Vet discussed trying to get good drainage of the sinuses ?

Have his tearducts been flushed ?

Often the core of infection is deep within the sinuses, so trying to clear them may make systemic abx treatment more effective. This may include nebulising the Rabbit, clearing the nasolacrimal ducts and applying abx drops to them (which will drain into the nasal passages if the ducts are clear)

An non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam is also necessary to reduce the chronic inflammation within the nasal passages.
Treating persistent snuffles often requires a multi-faceted approach and it can involve weeks and weeks of ongoing treatment. Even then it may be that symptoms can only be controlled, not cured.

I would suggest going back to the Vets to discuss this and also to discuss the possibility of tooth root elongation being a contributory factor. If the tooth roots are elongated they can effect the nasal passages causing inflammation and chronic infection. Skull radiographs are needed to assess tooth roots.

Good luck xx

I knew there would be one thing i'd forget! Thanks Jane :D
 
***NOTE: Obviously, i'm no vet, and as the yellow box at the top of this page suggests, you should discuss any and all treatments, be them medical or otherwise with a rabbit savvy vet - what i have written below is MY experience and is purely for informational purposes ***

Hi Graham, thankyou SO much for replying, I know you're not a vet, no one is on here and I would never take this information over my vet but I just feel a bit lost, just wanted to share experiences. Thanks for your post, so much detail. I have been at work and didn't want to reply on my phone. So here goes...

Firstly, i would want a much longer course of Abx for any persistent 'snuffles' type infection. Snuffles is actually a name for a group of illnesses, so more describes the symptom, than the illness itself.

On top of this, it may not be snuffles at all. It can be many other things, such as a foreign body up the nose; eg a piece of hay, hay seed or other item, dusty environment, dental disease etc

Vet is pretty sure it is. He's had it since we got him (10 weeks) from a closing down garden centre who had taken on rescues and got out of control. There was a thread up on here and I took on Vincent from Barbara.

Pasteurella is one of those and can come in many forms itself. Unfortunately, i know a fair amount about this as i have a relatively poorly bunny who will have Pasteurella for the rest of her life amongst other things.

I'm afraid this is going to be rather long and drawn out possibly for both your bunny and for you.

Here we go...

How many times does he sneeze per episode? Once. It's literally like ' achew ' and that's it. Sometimes he doesn't stop eating or running or whatever he's doing
How many episodes does he have per day in any 24 hour period? When we first got him home and saw the green yunk hanging from his nose it was pretty constant! Now I'd say 3 or 4 times a day max. This weekend he didn't sneeze once, and we thought the abx were working, then I get up this morning and he has a white discharge hanging from his nose. ...
Is the discharge clear and watery, or is it white and 'snotty' like a human when they have a bad cold? It was green when we first got him, then went to wet and then just clear or watery. He had had no discharge for months and then all of sudden, it's back.
Is the discharge from only one nostril or both? Mostly from one. Never noticed that before, until reading this
Does he have or has he ever had wet/runny eyes? Never
Has he ever had dental treatment? Never

Does the sneezing look like this? No. It's not a sneezing fit. Just one single sneeze at a time.. Once then that's it for hours or days later...

(I'm sorry if this distresses you) this was Ginger at her worst and occured at least 12-15 times per day.



Does your bunny have wet insides/tops of his front paws? (This is an indication of grooming the wet area with his paws - bunnies use their paws as 'hankerchiefs' for want of a better word) The fur is slightly ruffled, yes I have noticed him use his paws but they are not stained or damp.

What is your bunny bedded on? Newspaper ? Woodshavings ? Megazorb and hay over the top in two litter trays in one cornor and then vet bed or a towel in the rest of the cage.

There are swabs your bunny could be tested with, known as a C&S Test - Culture and Sensitivity Test - this has to be given when bunny has NOT had any anti-biotics for at least 14 consecutive days, as Anti-biotics will give a false result. They then swab the bunnies nose and send it off for bacterial analysis to determine which and how much antibiotic is requried to fight. Be aware though, they aren't always conclusive.

There are a few abx that you can use to fight 'snuffles' that your vet may want to try but none of them are licensed for use in rabbits so you will have to sign a cascade form to say you are happy to use it but understand its not been tested. I've signed too many of these myself to remember how many!

Baytril is the only one i know that is licensed, but isn't as effective in RTI's in my experience, but every bunny is differnet, so it does help with some.

Septrin is a abx for children and is banana flavoured, so most bunnies love it, as do i :lol:

He had Baytril when we first found out and it did nothing. Then my vet put him on this and within a week we noticed a huge reduction in the sneezing, the discharge disappeared and he came off abx for about three months. He loves this and it's so easy to get it down him, he just takes it off the syringe lol :D

Azithromycin (Zithromax) is again a human anti-biotic suitable for rabbits and worked brilliantly for Ginger, but just couldn't fight it enough to clear it.

Depocillin (very strong) can be given by injection but can be fatal if injested orally, so either must be done by a vet or you can be trained to do it at home.

The other thing is stress, keep it to a minimum as stress in rabbits can bring on all sorts of illnesses and once a bun is snuffley, it can make it worse.

This has been noticed. When I got back from the vets he sneezed lots. He was very stressed.

That's just a start, but please don't give up hope - snuffles buns can lead a full and happy life apart from being snot bags :)

THANKYOU :D:D:D:D

I'm trying to upload a video. Not sure, why but it's taking forever. Will keep trying.
 
If he has a culture taken he would need to have been off all abx for at least 7 days prior to taking the swab

Has the Vet discussed trying to get good drainage of the sinuses ?

No she has not.

Have his tearducts been flushed ? Nope.

Often the core of infection is deep within the sinuses, so trying to clear them may make systemic abx treatment more effective. This may include nebulising the Rabbit, clearing the nasolacrimal ducts and applying abx drops to them (which will drain into the nasal passages if the ducts are clear)

I definitely think This ^ is the next option

An non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam is also necessary to reduce the chronic inflammation within the nasal passages.

yes he has metacam for this reason

Treating persistent snuffles often requires a multi-faceted approach and it can involve weeks and weeks of ongoing treatment. Even then it may be that symptoms can only be controlled, not cured.

I would suggest going back to the Vets to discuss this and also to discuss the possibility of tooth root elongation being a contributory factor. If the tooth roots are elongated they can effect the nasal passages causing inflammation and chronic infection. Skull radiographs are needed to assess tooth roots.

Thanks Jane, was hoping you'd see my post :oops::D

Good luck xx

:D
 
Video

Sorry the video is long. He does it right at the end. But it shows how bright he is in himself ( wondering what the heck I have a camera in his face for :lol: ) and then just out the blue a little sneeze. I know he was grooming meg but this can happen randomly, often when his head is down. Looks very insignificant compared to your video but it is too often to be just a normal every day sneeze I'm not paranoid honest :oops::lol:

[video]http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v490/BunnyBonkers/?action=view&current=P1040890.mp4[/video]
 
with what you have described and from the video, at this stage i would opt for a much longer course of medication. usually a 6week minimum is needed, but i know my vet starts at a three month course. this is because of how deep the infection can get inside the nose. it can seem like it has improved after a shorter course but it is usually still deep in the spores of the nose and then begins again from there, taking you back to the start with weeks - months.

so i would go for the longer course as the next step and then see where you are with things. the amount of sneezing doesn't seem too bad. this seems similar to what bisc was like, although he sneezed like grahamL's ginger on that video and bisc had a three month course of penicillin injections for three months and this was enough to clear his infection up. months later he had a flare up and when his nose was checked, there had been scar tissue damage so we then began nebulising him with parvolex and hypertonic saline with the view to keep his nose as clear as possible as his nostrils kind of close up too much when he is asleep because of the scar tissue. he started off being nebulised twice a day but as time has gone on, he is fine being nebulised only once at times, and also has a week off when matt needs stronger meds in the nebuliser.

they are both also on metacam long term to keep any swelling in the nose down. they have this twice a day.

i'm rambling :oops: but i would go for the longer course and then maybe regular nebulising. the c+s test is an option but you don't always get a result from it. matt had three before we got a result. and it turned out that medication we had already used and that should have worked didn't because of the amount of mucus in his nose. that's when we switched to nebulising it instead and this has made the most difference to bisc and matt. the reason i think nebulising may be the best option is because he has had the symptoms for a long time. bisc and matt started at a few months old aswell and it's a long time for damage to be done which can't be repaired, just controlled.

so maybe nebulising aswell when needed? and daily metacam aswell with the septin and see how things go?
 
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If he has a culture taken he would need to have been off all abx for at least 7 days prior to taking the swab

Has the Vet discussed trying to get good drainage of the sinuses ?

Not yet no.

Have his tearducts been flushed ? Nope

Often the core of infection is deep within the sinuses, so trying to clear them may make systemic abx treatment more effective. This may include nebulising the Rabbit, clearing the nasolacrimal ducts and applying abx drops to them (which will drain into the nasal passages if the ducts are clear)

This ^ is what I think he needs

An non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam is also necessary to reduce the chronic inflammation within the nasal passages.

Yes he is on metacam too

Treating persistent snuffles often requires a multi-faceted approach and it can involve weeks and weeks of ongoing treatment. Even then it may be that symptoms can only be controlled, not cured.

I would suggest going back to the Vets to discuss this and also to discuss the possibility of tooth root elongation being a contributory factor. If the tooth roots are elongated they can effect the nasal passages causing inflammation and chronic infection. Skull radiographs are needed to assess tooth roots.

Thankyou I will do :D

Good luck xx

:wave:
 
with what you have described and from the video, at this stage i would opt for a much longer course of medication. usually a 6week minimum is needed, but i know my vet starts at a three month course. this is because of how deep the infection can get inside the nose. it can seem like it has improved after a shorter course but it is usually still deep in the spores of the nose and then begins again from there, taking you back to the start with weeks - months.

Thanks, I'll keep up with the meds until they run out ( that'll be four weeks) and then speak to my vet about continuing with a further few weeks :thumb:

so i would go for the longer course as the next step and then see where you are with things. the amount of sneezing doesn't seem too bad. this seems similar to what bisc was like, although he sneezed like grahamL's ginger on that video and bisc had a three month course of penicillin injections for three months

yikes that's strong stuff! Just shows how stubborn these infections can be!:shock:


and this was enough to clear his infection up. months later he had a flare up and when his nose was checked, there had been scar tissue damage so we then began nebulising him with parvolex and hypertonic saline with the view to keep his nose as clear as possible as his nostrils kind of close up too much when he is asleep because of the scar tissue. he started off being nebulised twice a day but as time has gone on, he is fine being nebulised only once at times, and also has a week off when matt needs stronger meds in the nebuliser.

they are both also on metacam long term to keep any swelling in the nose down. they have this twice a day.

i'm rambling :oops: but i would go for the longer course and then maybe regular nebulising. the c+s test is an option but you don't always get a result from it. matt had three before we got a result. and it turned out that medication we had already used and that should have worked didn't because of the amount of mucus in his nose. that's when we switched to nebulising it instead and this has made the most difference to bisc and matt. the reason i think nebulising may be the best option is because he has had the symptoms for a long time. bisc and matt started at a few months old aswell and it's a long time for damage to be done which can't be repaired, just controlled.

so maybe nebulising aswell when needed? and daily metacam aswell with the septin and see how things go?

Cheers. I will definitely consider nebulising maybe at a later date. I'll give the meds a bit longer to work now. You have all put my mind at rest, was close to tears this morning, just felt so fustrated :oops:
 
Going by that video and his history, i'd say it was a deeper infection than a 4 week course of Septrin would clear up. I agree completely with biscandmatt1 as our bunnies have very similar severities and we've talked in the past about similarities, nebulisation may well be an option, even just with a saline solution, but i'd agree with daily metacam, daily abx for at least 6 weeks, and minimal stress, i really can't stress (oh dear..:lol:) that enough, if i stress Ginger out, i can guarantee that her RTI will flare up massively.
 
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