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Barney won't groom himself

nessar

Warren Veteran
Ever since Barney's incontinence he hasnt been grooming himself properly, even though he is better now. He is short haired, although his coat is thick, and he's never had any problems with knotting before. The only part of himself I've seen him groom for weeks is his ears and occasionally his nose/paws when he sneezes. He can reach his caceotrophs fine, so I dont *think* its a motility issue.

I first noticed he had some lumps around his bum, they were invisible to the eye but I felt them. It turned out they were matts, I felt terrible that I hadnt noticed. I had to tease and cut them out, and its just been getting worse. Its mainly around his bum that it matts, it seems to be clumps of fur that he is moulting that just get stuck. He is moulting and it is just ridiculous, I am brushing him twice a day with a slicker brush and a comb, and getting a good handful out, but I am still having to cut/tease out lumps of fur every day. I dont get how they are developing so fast! He developed two overnight last night!

Is there anything I can do? Has anyone experienced anything like this? Is brushing him twice a day too much? I dont want him to get sore.

He also hops off whenever I touch the bottom of his bum now, as he knows I'm going to try and comb a tangle, he thinks I'm trying to hurt him :( . But now I cant get him to stay still to get them out, and I cant hold him and cut. For that matter I only know one person other than me that can hold him still and they're away for 2 weeks..... arghhhh help ru :cry:
 
Has he had his teeth checked ?

Dental Rabbits can find grooming difficult

Thanks Jane, yes, I think it was a couple of weeks ago now, I make a point of getting them checked most times I go to the vets, as he has needed dentals in the past. The vet said he had some starting to develop but they werent causing problems and as he is eating fine to just keep an eye on it for now. Barney usually goes right off his hay at the smallest hint of spurs, you see, he has a very low pain tolerance, so I figured I'd leave it as he is eating fine. What with the higher risk due to his possible age and his snuffles/scarring in his airways, I'd hate to put him under unessessarily - but he hasnt needed a dental for months and months, so I guess in some sense he is due one.
 
Just a thought, but has the incontinence been fully resolved/could that be causing him low-level pain? Lingering infection etc? It sounds as if they might be linked as the timing coincided... :?
 
Thanks guys.

I dont *think* the incontinence is still a problem, as there are no symptoms, he is brilliant with his litter training at the moment. The main problem with the incontinence was that he was leaking rather than not going in the tray, but he is completely dry underneath all the time now. He's also very active at the moment, more so than he has been for a year, so I'm hoping this means he's feeling well in himself.

I think it has coincided with the incontinence perhaps because he stopped grooming his back end at that time, perhaps because it was so soaked in urine, and I was bathing him every couple of days and getting the moisture off him at least once or twice a day. He would groom himself after I bathed him though, to help dry himself, although now I come to think of it he didnt groom around his privates much.

I got Barney from P@H adoption, and they said he was '2 or 3' but tbh I wasn't confident that they really knew. So if we take his age as 2 and a half then, by now he would be about 4. However he is a big bunny, 3.5kg, so this is older for him than for a small bunny. The vet thinks Barney may actually be older though - he just looks and seems old in himself, he's not an active bun and hardly ever dashes about, whereas he did when I first got him. And in the last year he has had trouble maintaining his weight and his actual body shape seems to have changed, he's lost muscle I think, although he weighs the same. It all seems to point to the fact that he might in fact be a little older than I was told.
 
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Also, has anyone got any hints for getting sticky stuff off their fur without bathing them? He has a sticky patch on his back, has had for over a week, no idea what it is. I've been wiping it with grooming wipes and water and also combing it but it doesnt seem to be helping much, and its still there. I dont like to stress him though, so I'd rather not give him a bath, as its not really causing any harm.
 
Could Barney's probs be spinal in origin?
Why I ask is my Flemish Giant Ondine who is at least 5 years old has had similar sounding issues to Barney.
Urinary incontinence & issues with grooming.
As she is an older bun for a giant who didn't have a good first 4 years of her life I was pretty sure I was dealing with geriatric issues.
So she had a range of diagnostics & general clean up done all at once.
She was found to have a UTI & arthritis in her spine.
The UTI was treated & she commenced on Metacam for pain relief to see if her mobility would improve which it has.
Although its hard to gage (mainly because she was out of sorts with an awful moult as well ), she does seem able to get around better, is grooming a little more easily, has had no re occurance of the UTI & is generally perkier.
So maybe this is something you could consider?
 
Also, has anyone got any hints for getting sticky stuff off their fur without bathing them? He has a sticky patch on his back, has had for over a week, no idea what it is. I've been wiping it with grooming wipes and water and also combing it but it doesnt seem to be helping much, and its still there. I dont like to stress him though, so I'd rather not give him a bath, as its not really causing any harm.

Julie got some sticky juice split on her back once. I washed if off but she was still sticky. I rubbed a pinch of cornstarch between my fingers and then through the sticky fur then brushed it out. After a couple times doing this she was no longer sticky. Make sure the fur is really dry first.
 
Thank you both :)

Bunnytoes, I'll try that thanks.

KB, how do you diagnose something like that, is it xrays? The vet has mentioned that he may be starting to get mild arthiritus, when I was concerned about him not dashing around much or binkying any more, but he seems to be doing that again anyway. I wanted him started on glucosamine you see, as he's getting older, but the vet I spoke to didnt know anything about its use in rabbits. I have no idea how he spent the first few years of his life, except that he wasnt litter trained so likely wasnt indoors (he had staining from urine up his bum/lower back that suggests this) and he was overweight, so there is the possibility that he was in an average hutch/run, which probably wouldnt be big enough for him and make problems like arthiritus more likely.
 
Hi Nessar.
Yes X Ray diagnosis.
We did have a bit of an inkling of it as she had an X Ray about 18 months ago for something else & it showed up then as an incidental finding.
It was mild then.
Over time she had lost mobility but when you see them every day its easy not to notice as its so gradual.
It wasn't til I was researching something else that I read a list of clinical signs associated with spinal disease in rabbits, in FHB's textbook.
Realised that my big girl was actually exhibiting many of them to varying degrees! Felt really bad, as I'd been putting things down to her ability to have utterly miserable moults.
Anyway we are seeing a happier bun now. I help out with grooming her rear end, she eats most of her caecotrophs.
I realise we are on borrowed time as we are going into winter & they are outdoor buns, but while she is happy & comfortable we will keep on keeping on.
Re Glucosamine for buns, someone on here or maybe even a few people have used it so maybe do a search.
Barney looks so lovely I really hope you get him sorted.
 
Thanks, do you happen to know the list of symptoms?

I'm taking them both to the vet tonight anyway, so I'll ask the vet. I dont want him put under especially for an xray though so I think I'll wait until he needs a dental.
 
Sorry for delay in responding.
From pg 321 of The Textbook of Rabbit Medicine by Frances Harcourt-Brown.

Impaired flexibility results in -
Abnormal gait.
Grooming difficulties. The rabbit is unable to reach many parts of the body, especially the area around the tail & along the dorsum. Dead hair & skin debris accumulate.
Cheyletiellosis. The rabbit is unable to remove skin parasites & scale allowing build up of mites in the fur.
Uneaten caecotrophs. The rabbit cannot reach its anus to ingest caecotrophs as they are excreted.
Perineal dermatitis. The rabbit cannot reach the area around the anus & genitalia which becomes soiled & infected.
Facial dermatitis and/or tear staining. The rabbit is unable to sit on its haunches to groom the face & ears with its front legs.

Spinal pain can result in -
Agression to companions & owners.
Reduced gut motility.
Quiet unresponsive demeanor.
Reluctance to exercise.

Compression of the spinal cord can cause neurological deficits such as -
Ataxia.
Lack of proprioreception.
Paresis.
Paralysis.
Urinary incontinence.
Faecal incontinence.

Ondine suffers from all in the impaired flexibility category, to a greater or lesser degree.
Metacam allows her to do a little more for herself & she is a lot perkier since we started its use long term.
I just try to manage the rest as best I can. Am considering buying a clipper to keep her rear end 'dags' under control.
Luckily its late autumn here so flystrike is not an issue. Realistically she may not make it to next summer so am really going day by day with her.

How did you get on at the vet with Barney?
 
Thankyou.

Thankfully he only really has the grooming difficulties in that list, although I guess his gait is a little odd, he tends to be heavy on his feet and he scuffs his feet as he runs, makes a hell of a racket when he properly runs, but I dont know if this is just because he is a big rabbit, never had a big one before him and I cant figure out whether he used to run like that and I'm only just noticing it now or whether hes always done it. With the foam tiles in the room instead of carpet its naturally louder since I moved last July you see.

The vet doesnt think it is dental problems as he isnt showing his usual dental signs, which is a reluctance to eat hay at the smallest sign of spurs, normally accompanied with drinking out of one side of his mouth and dipping his face in the bowl as he drinks. He thinks Barneys too young for arthiritus to be likely, but has given me 4 days worth of anti-arthritics to see if he improves. Not sure on the name as they didnt charge me for them so theyre not on the invoice, its a tablet of which he has a quarter a day. We are on day 2 now and he has actually just groomed his bum, not a lot, but its still unusual for him. He doesnt seem to be any more active, which I would expect if he had arthiritus and it suddenly seemed gone to him, though. Its hard to know what to make of it...

He did suggest that, if it continues and its not arthiritus, to have his coat clipped right back almost to rex length, so its easier to manage. He doesnt want to try that till next month though, as its still chilly here at the moment.
 
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