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View Full Version : Just a question (Breeding)



Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 01:45 PM
what would you say to someone that has said

So breeding for loving pet homes is not a purpose!

janice
08-04-2012, 01:50 PM
what would you say to someone that has said

So breeding for loving pet homes is not a purpose!

If someone said to me that 'Breeding for loving pet homes is not a purpose' I would have to agree as there are already far too many animals in the UK who are already looking for a loving pet home without adding any more to the equation.

William
08-04-2012, 01:54 PM
I would probably agree... I'm not against breeding as long as it's responsible breeding (good care of the rabbits, knowing genetic backgrounds, not selling to people who won't take good care of them, etc) but there are a lot of homeless rabbits so I don't encourage people to breed.

Georgeypudding
08-04-2012, 01:55 PM
I dont understand the question :?

William
08-04-2012, 01:58 PM
I dont understand the question :?

I'm not sure I do either :lol: I just realized my answer may not make any sense.

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 02:34 PM
Basically im trying to tell this person that breeding for loving pet homes is not really a reason to breed at all as like you said so many in rescue you dont need more shes breeding lops atm the only history she knows on her rabbits is they were bred by her friend again another breeder brreeding for loving pet homes i just cant seem to get through to her that thier are more loving animals than there is loving homes.

William
08-04-2012, 02:40 PM
Basically im trying to tell this person that breeding for loving pet homes is not really a reason to breed at all as like you said so many in rescue you dont need more shes breeding lops atm the only history she knows on her rabbits is they were bred by her friend again another breeder brreeding for loving pet homes i just cant seem to get through to her that thier are more loving animals than there is loving homes.

Hmm, that's difficult. Since telling her isnt working maybe you could take her to some rescues, let her see how many buns are in rescues and how long some have been there. Maybe seeing it with her own eyes will help.

Georgeypudding
08-04-2012, 02:42 PM
IF (theoretically) there was no need for rescues at all, then yes I would see a reason to breed for pets only, so no issue with that part.
The fact she is breeding irresponsibly because she doesnt know thier history, and there are too many out there doesnt sit with me. So no she shouldnt be breeding them, you know we'd all agree with that :lol:

Some people just wont be told though

DemiS
08-04-2012, 02:44 PM
Been noseying at the fb argument, I know there are breeders good and bad that are pet or exhibition breeders, but I do think breeding for exhibition is better as many babies born stay with the breeder and many of the rest go to other breeders (who wouldn't otherwise rescue), they tend to keep better records and really know where their rabbits come from, and when you show rabbits they're going infront of many experienced owners and judges who are likely to spot any health problems. I don't see the point in breeding just for pets.

little-laura
08-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Hmm, that's difficult. Since telling her isnt working maybe you could take her to some rescues, let her see how many buns are in rescues and how long some have been there. Maybe seeing it with her own eyes will help.

This


I would book an appointment at a rescue and let her see how many rabbits are in need already

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 02:45 PM
im trying to say to her the reason why show breeders (should breed) if to continue a breed or better it, thats why they have standards written.
but she seems to think to breed soley for pets is ok this to me just points to money but i could be wrong

vee-jay
08-04-2012, 02:52 PM
no because there are plenty of just pet rabbits out there

chul
08-04-2012, 02:52 PM
im trying to say to her the reason why show breeders (should breed) if to continue a breed or better it, thats why they have standards written.
but she seems to think to breed soley for pets is ok this to me just points to money but i could be wrong

I guess it looks a bit like you are contradicting yourself saying she cant but others can, when in reality, due to the rescue numbers... none should.

little-laura
08-04-2012, 02:54 PM
im trying to say to her the reason why show breeders (should breed) if to continue a breed or better it, thats why they have standards written.
but she seems to think to breed soley for pets is ok this to me just points to money but i could be wrong
wait.....

So you think show breeders should breed but people who breed rabbits for pets shouldnt?

I dont get that logic... As regardless of the reason a breeder breeds if its not done right or if they dont care about the animals then its not good that they breed.

When trying to breed to the standards you mentioned showed breeders might many rabbits are ill treated and forced to over breed till a perfect litter is produced which either kills the rabbit or seriously damages their health. Many experiment with breeding with produces ill, deformed etc.... rabbits who don't live long or live their lives with health issues

This rabbits can be mistreated and only used for showing and can be showed very little love and caring....

nessar
08-04-2012, 02:56 PM
Ask her how she KNOWS they are loving pet homes, does she homecheck, does she make sure their homes conform to rwaf standards (show her hutch is not enough page), get some statistics on how many rabbits are given away/set free/go into rescue in the first year of ownership and tell her them, and also that over 33000 rabbits are given into rescue every year in the UK.

Ask her why she breeds rabbits that she dpesnt know twhe genetic history of, risking genetic problems, why would she want to breed unhealthy rabbits etc.

dizzyg
08-04-2012, 03:14 PM
Ask her how she KNOWS they are loving pet homes, does she homecheck, does she make sure their homes conform to rwaf standards (show her hutch is not enough page), get some statistics on how many rabbits are given away/set free/go into rescue in the first year of ownership and tell her them, and also that over 33000 rabbits are given into rescue every year in the UK.

Ask her why she breeds rabbits that she dpesnt know twhe genetic history of, risking genetic problems, why would she want to breed unhealthy rabbits etc.

^^this^^

In a way, if she was breeding show-standard rabbits but selling them as pets, it wouldn't beAS bad. But by not knowing the proper bloodlines she's just breeding potential problems. My Jasmine came from my friend's
grandad. She was pts at 2 because her jaw was so maligned that she couldn't go a fortnight without having her incisors clipped. That's what bad breeding causes.

It's just plain irresponsible. Plenty of responsibly bred and rescue buns out there, no. Need for casual breeding.

Deffo take her to a rescue. I'm sure they can then show her a bun with chronic probs that were the result of bad breeding and will explain the costs involved!

janice
08-04-2012, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=Raven Rexs;5328425]im trying to say to her the reason why show breeders (should breed) if to continue a breed or better it, thats why they have standards written.


I am sorry I personally do not see there is any difference, breeding in or out certain characteristics does not necessarily improve a breed.

There was someone who describes themselves as a 'show breeder' who lives within a reasonable distance of myself who crossed two of the breeds that they normally breed to try and breed out sore hocks, these poor rabbits were then 'sold on' to a local garden centre where due to a number of genetic problems those that did not die had to be removed from the store due to ill health. This to me is no better than someone breeding rabbit as pets for money.


but she seems to think to breed soley for pets is ok this to me just points to money but i could be wrong

I am a little confused with your explanation and wonder if you can explain to me what difference is there between someone who says that they primarily breed for show and your friend who admits to breeding to sell her animals as pets in the return for cash. If someone breeds and advertises that their rabbits are due to have babies on their website and then sells on some of these rabbits for cash ... is there a difference and if so what is the difference ? Thank you

Grin
08-04-2012, 03:47 PM
^^this^^

In a way, if she was breeding show-standard rabbits but selling them as pets, it wouldn't beAS bad. But by not knowing the proper bloodlines she's just breeding potential problems. My Jasmine came from my friend's
grandad. She was pts at 2 because her jaw was so maligned that she couldn't go a fortnight without having her incisors clipped. That's what bad breeding causes.

It's just plain irresponsible. Plenty of responsibly bred and rescue buns out there, no. Need for casual breeding.

Deffo take her to a rescue. I'm sure they can then show her a bun with chronic probs that were the result of bad breeding and will explain the costs involved!

I disagree with the 'responsibly bred' statement seeing as there is not ever any 'responsible breeder'. Why breed when there are thousands in rescue. Breeding rabbits is irresponsible in my opinion.

wendle
08-04-2012, 03:56 PM
Totally Agree With Grin

twobunnies&apony
08-04-2012, 04:01 PM
Totally Agree With Grin

Me too.

Breeding is always irresponsible and a definite no no for me.

Happy Easter everyone and everybunny :D, including the 30000 in rescue.:(

hurricanhoney
08-04-2012, 04:19 PM
I disagree with the 'responsibly bred' statement seeing as there is not ever any 'responsible breeder'. Why breed when there are thousands in rescue. Breeding rabbits is irresponsible in my opinion.

Like :thumb:

dizzyg
08-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Are we really going to turn this into a breeding debate? I know that the term 'responsible' breeder' is contentious, but I am trying to distinguish between someone like the lady in question, and someone who knows the genetic history of the animals they breed and homechecks. So yes, in comparison, these people are responsible.

Lea-Anne
08-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Breeding toward a standard, for the ' perfect specimen' which lets face it does not exist, seems just as daft to me. Just my personal opinion :thumb:

janice
08-04-2012, 04:37 PM
Are we really going to turn this into a breeding debate? I know that the term 'responsible' breeder' is contentious, but I am trying to distinguish between someone like the lady in question, and someone who knows the genetic history of the animals they breed and homechecks. So yes, in comparison, these people are responsible.

The person who bred the rabbits I mentioned earlier was a 'show breeder' who was trying to breed out sore hocks, however bred some bunnies who became very sick about 8 weeks old and the only one I knew that survived went on to develop sore hocks :shock: This is not the actions of a responsible breeder.

The same breeder also sells excess stock of a number of small and not so small animals on the free ads :cry:

little-laura
08-04-2012, 04:38 PM
Are we really going to turn this into a breeding debate? I know that the term 'responsible' breeder' is contentious, but I am trying to distinguish between someone like the lady in question, and someone who knows the genetic history of the animals they breed and homechecks. So yes, in comparison, these people are responsible.

*Like*

I dont support breeding but the people who do home check, who dont over breed, who provide the rabbits with great lives, do all their research and, do home checks etc... are not the enemy

little-laura
08-04-2012, 04:40 PM
The person who bred the rabbits I mentioned earlier was a 'show breeder' who was trying to breed out sore hocks, however bred some bunnies who became very sick about 8 weeks old and the only one I knew that survived went on to develop sore hocks :shock: This is not the actions of a responsible breeder.

The same breeder also sells excess stock of a number of small and not so small animals on the free ads :cry:

then they weren't a responsible breeder....

I would much rather people rescued bunnies though

Crunchie
08-04-2012, 04:44 PM
Breeding toward a standard, for the ' perfect specimen' which lets face it does not exist, seems just as daft to me. Just my personal opinion :thumb:

Agree with you Lea-Anne, anyone claiming to be breeding in order to "better the breed" has a brass neck and a half.

dizzyg
08-04-2012, 04:51 PM
The person who bred the rabbits I mentioned earlier was a 'show breeder' who was trying to breed out sore hocks, however bred some bunnies who became very sick about 8 weeks old and the only one I knew that survived went on to develop sore hocks :shock: This is not the actions of a responsible breeder.

The same breeder also sells excess stock of a number of small and not so small anim.als on the free ads :cry:

Then they're a bit stupid then and if they are selling via freeads and breeding many species I doubt they'd listen. Seems like a money thing.

So sad.

I am increasingly thinking that people should be licensed to breed and part of obtaining said license should be a proper exam on ethics, genetics etc, with spot checks and license renewals after a few years. And free Ada should not allow adverts for pets.

Wouldn't stop them all, but it would help!

Santa
08-04-2012, 05:17 PM
I'm afraid the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind in relation to the discussion you are having with someone else on the matter of responsible breeding!

Grin
08-04-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm afraid the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind in relation to the discussion you are having with someone else on the matter of responsible breeding!

:thumb:

Lspacehopper
08-04-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm afraid the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind in relation to the discussion you are having with someone else on the matter of responsible breeding!

I quite agree.

Raven, considering all the ads you currently have on Preloved where you are selling different breeds of rabbits, I think you are a hypocrite to even raise the thread that you have.

You're an irresponsible breeder in my opinion.

Zahirre
08-04-2012, 10:24 PM
I quite agree.

Raven, considering all the ads you currently have on Preloved where you are selling different breeds of rabbits, I think you are a hypocrite to even raise the thread that you have.

You're an irresponsible breeder in my opinion.

Sorry... But I have to agree with this.

Lspacehopper
08-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Sorry... But I have to agree with this.

Using Preloved as a medium in which to sell rabbits, is pure animal peddling as far as I'm concerned. Disgraceful.

Amy & Amber
08-04-2012, 10:38 PM
I quite agree.

Raven, considering all the ads you currently have on Preloved where you are selling different breeds of rabbits, I think you are a hypocrite to even raise the thread that you have.

You're an irresponsible breeder in my opinion.

I agree totally 100% and more.....

You come on RU knowing there's rescues on here fighting for rabbit welfare then type an opening post like that?

You have some goat I tell you!

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 10:53 PM
I quite agree.

Raven, considering all the ads you currently have on Preloved where you are selling different breeds of rabbits, I think you are a hypocrite to even raise the thread that you have.

You're an irresponsible breeder in my opinion.

all the ADS?! i have 2 thats it and they have been there for 2 months!!!!

nessar
08-04-2012, 10:56 PM
Wait if the OP is a breeder selling on preloved, which will supposedly go to pet homes, why are they argueing with another breeder breeding for pet homes? :? Am I missing something?

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 10:57 PM
I agree totally 100% and more.....

You come on RU knowing there's rescues on here fighting for rabbit welfare then type an opening post like that?

You have some goat I tell you!

i posted in order to try and show this person that thier reasons is simply not valid and hence why i put (BREEDING) in the title so those not wishing to view something on breeding dont have to

Lspacehopper
08-04-2012, 10:57 PM
all the ADS?! i have 2 thats it and they have been there for 2 months!!!!

One advert, two adverts, it's irrelevant. You wouldn't be using the site at all if you had any scruples. Haven't you sold other species, besides rabbits on there as well in the past?

janice
08-04-2012, 11:04 PM
i posted in order to try and show this person that thier reasons is simply not valid and hence why i put (BREEDING) in the title so those not wishing to view something on breeding dont have to

Your argument does not make sence if you are advising your colleague that it is not appropriate to breed to sell for the pet market, why are you advertising rabbits as suitable for 'Show/pet/breeding'. There is no difference and you are contradicting your validation for what you are doing.

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 11:04 PM
One advert, two adverts, it's irrelevant. You wouldn't be using the site at all if you had any scruples. Haven't you sold other species, besides rabbits on there as well in the past?

i advertise for a 2 friends that dont have access to the internet and one lady that says ''shes to old old to learn to use it''
so yes i have advertised other in the past.


Raven, considering all the ads you currently have on Preloved you are here making out i have loads of ads now on here?

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 11:09 PM
once again ive come on to get advice not for a colleage but member of public and am having to try and defend myself
this is not what i was asking and has gone very off topic for what the post asks if you cant answer the question then
my suggestion to not make more work for tamsin would be to keep your fingures off the keyboard or stay off my posts.

if my memory is right Lspacehopper you work for Pets at home right

Lspacehopper
08-04-2012, 11:13 PM
once again ive come on to get advice not for a colleage but member of public and am having to try and defend myself
this is not what i was asking and has gone very off topic for what the post asks if you cant answer the question then
my suggestion to not make more work for tamsin would be to keep your fingures off the keyboard or stay off my posts.

if my memory is right Lspacehopper you work for Pets at home right

I haven't worked for PAH for almost 2 years. One of my reasons for leaving was because I gained an insight into how bad life can be for the animals sold by pet shops and irresponsible breeders. Getting to know Jill from Honeybunnies and others involved in animal rescue provided me an insight into the issues they have to deal with day in and day out.

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 11:15 PM
I haven't worked for PAH for almost 2 years. One of my reasons for leaving was because I gained an insight into how bad life can be for the animals sold by pet shops and irresponsible breeders. Getting to know Jill from Honeybunnies and others involved in animal rescue provided me an insight into the issues they have to deal with day in and day out.

ah ok same reason i left then, did you ever go to where the rabbits came from?

Snowy
08-04-2012, 11:19 PM
once again ive come on to get advice not for a colleage but member of public and am having to try and defend myself
this is not what i was asking and has gone very off topic for what the post asks if you cant answer the question then
my suggestion to not make more work for tamsin would be to keep your fingures off the keyboard or stay off my posts.

if my memory is right Lspacehopper you work for Pets at home right

But that is the whole point, you have come on here to ask for advice about someone who is breeding irresponsibly, in all the time I have been on this forum you are the most irresponsible of all breeders who post on here, you cross breed rabbits deliberately, when you can't sell them they are dumped on rescues, when you worked at Pets at Home you used to supply your unwanted wanted rabbits in there and once you even got the manager to ring a local rescue and say that they had been dumped in the shop and they were yours

You sell animals telling people that you will take them back if things go wrong and we all know that's not true, one on your hares was being sold on freeads not 6 miles from me, I offered to go and collect it for you and to drive it to London to return it to you but you reckoned you hadn't hadn't got room, even though you were still churning out litters as quickly as you could

Irresponsible breeding? breeding to better the line? breeding for show rabbits? breeding for pet homes?

Do you really all think we are stupid?

There is no such thing as a responsible breeder

Oh, by the way, you have had and still have lots of ads on preloved and freeads and they are not for other people

Don't bother to report me, I'll report myself

Raven Rexs
08-04-2012, 11:35 PM
But that is the whole point, you have come on here to ask for advice about someone who is breeding irresponsibly, in all the time I have been on this forum you are the most irresponsible of all breeders who post on here, you cross breed rabbits deliberately, when you can't sell them they are dumped on rescues, when you worked at Pets at Home you used to supply your unwanted wanted rabbits in there and once you even got the manager to ring a local rescue and say that they had been dumped in the shop and they were yours

You sell animals telling people that you will take them back if things go wrong and we all know that's not true, one on your hares was being sold on freeads not 6 miles from me, I offered to go and collect it for you and to drive it to London to return it to you but you reckoned you hadn't hadn't got room, even though you were still churning out litters as quickly as you could

Irresponsible breeding? breeding to better the line? breeding for show rabbits? breeding for pet homes?

Do you really all think we are stupid?

There is no such thing as a responsible breeder

Oh, by the way, you have had and still have lots of ads on preloved and freeads and they are not for other people

Don't bother to report me, I'll report myself

yes i have crossbred in the past no it wasnt right at all to do and i havent done for 6yrs now.
i never got a manager to phone a rescue on my behalf to LIE for me (I phoned as there had been A mini rex dumped that was bald on the head only and we could not risk it in store and i could not take it to my rabbits for the same reason)
I got i asked once while i was working thier if i had any spare and i did so they bought some off of me other than that one time they never had rabbits off of my as they are not allowed to buy from other locations otherwise the mill can terminate thier contract with p@h.
and i just didnt have the room for the hare at the time as she needed him gone asap and i couldnt house him in the size cage needed for a hare they already had my hares in them, churning out litters doesnt happen in my shed im afraid as all mine are bred 1 maybe twice a year no more.
and once again i have had 2 ads for the last 2 months