Things are still bad

Firstly i apologize because i wasnt going to write this thread as i know ive gone on and on in the past about Buster and the trouble he's had since his abcess op and time and time again ive said i dont know what to do or what to suggest but he is suffering.

I cant get him to a specialist vet, i have no car, no one to look after my son whilst i go, no money to pay for the treatment (i doubt my insurance would cover it) and even if i did have all these things there is no rabbit specialist vet in my area.

Buster was bathed 2 days ago, today he looks like this





He doesnt have a urine infection and his bladder and kidneys are fine. The vets have said he has re-occuring sistitus and to just treat him with Baytril and Metacam... Ive been to the vets over this issue 4 times

Metacam gives him diarrhea and causes his sistitus to get worse before he gets better. He gets better for a week or two and it starts again. His legs are bright red with the urine burns despite using cream all the time

He has 2 litter trays, a bigger one and a small one, i use about an inch and a half of megazorb in each. By the end of the day the megazorb in the larger tray is floating in his urine and i have to pour the urine down the sink before i empty the tray into the bin liner because there is so much of it. This is before we come to the smell. The urine smells so horrendous it makes me gag when im cleaning it, i have to hold my breath. A visitor was also nice enough to tell me that my house stinks of rabbit p*** the other day too which really got me down.

Some one must have experienced this at some point, maybe a rescue or a foster or anyone, if some one can just give me a clue to look into. I thought it could be diabetes? I could get the vet to test for this, he drinks about 2 large rabbit bottles of water a day, i dont know if this is normal or not, i just dont know what else i can do for him and i cant carry on the way this is going anymore.

I have no experience with this so can not offer any real advice but wanted to sent you some sympathy, vibes and hugs. Julie drinks a lot also so not sure if what Buster drinks is a lot or not. She is a medium size bunny and drinks about 4 ferret size bowls of water a day plus. She drinks fast and tries to put her whole head in the bowl so I was told to try the smaller bowls. She pees a fair amount. I use horse bedding. It is very absorbent and controls the normal rabbit odor but Julie's urine is not really smelly at all.

bunnytoes said:

I have no experience with this so can not offer any real advice but wanted to sent you some sympathy, vibes and hugs. Julie drinks a lot also so not sure if what Buster drinks is a lot or not. She is a medium size bunny and drinks about 4 ferret size bowls of water a day plus. She drinks fast and tries to put her whole head in the bowl so I was told to try the smaller bowls. She pees a fair amount. I use horse bedding. It is very absorbent and controls the normal rabbit odor but Julie's urine is not really smelly at all.

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Thanks bunnytoes, what horse bedding do you use? I desperately need to try new bedding, ive tried megazorb, carefresh, news paper, puppypads, sawdust and hay to no avail, he still has to practically swim in his wee to get out and as im at work during the week im not able to change it half way through the day

I'm really sorry to hear this and sending lots and lots of vibes.

Has the vet done any Xrays? Sometimes a UTI can be caused by bladder/kidney stones which unfortunately only show up on xrays. I suspect your insurance would cover an xray and if necessary further treatment.

Where abouts are you? It may be worth posting a thread "Rabbit Savy Vet neeeded in......"

I forgot to mention, during his spells of sistitus he becomes almost incontinent, weeing every where but not meaning too. He'll run for the tray but by the time he gets there its too late. The incontinence can last anywhere between 3 days and 6 weeks. During this time i mop the floor and his area 5-6 times a day and change his towls every other day depending on how dirty they are. I can cope with the constant floor mopping and the 2-3 loads of bunny towls a week but what i cant deal with is constantly grabbing Buster to bath him and put cream on him and check him. He hates it and its adding misery to his pain. He's barely turned 1 and he's already been through so much. I just want him to be well again

shelley said:

Thanks bunnytoes, what horse bedding do you use? I desperately need to try new bedding, ive tried megazorb, carefresh, news paper, puppypads, sawdust and hay to no avail, he still has to practically swim in his wee to get out and as im at work during the week im not able to change it half way through the day

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Sounds like the horse bedding will work good for him then. I tired everything else and had to change her litter box several times a day before. The brand that I use is Lone Star bedding but I am in the US. Just look for a pellet style horse bedding. It starts off as pellets. All liquid is absorbed and the litter fluffs up. I can only use a thin layer of it as the more she pees the more the stuff grows. if I put in too much it expands over the top of the litter box. The litter compost too. This should really help with his urine scald.

lauraj27 said:

I'm really sorry to hear this and sending lots and lots of vibes.

Has the vet done any Xrays? Sometimes a UTI can be caused by bladder/kidney stones which unfortunately only show up on xrays. I suspect your insurance would cover an xray and if necessary further treatment.

Where abouts are you? It may be worth posting a thread "Rabbit Savy Vet neeeded in......"

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Yes he has had xrays previously but if i remeber correctly they werent to do with the sistitus. I could request this, the insurance will only pay out if the vet feels its necessary though. They have already paid out £700 this year but i have lifecover so will need to check if there is a limit per year.

Ive looked for rabbit savvy vets, i know where they are but i cant get to them and i dont live near any family that could take me. It would be ok to get there once but this issue has been so ongoing they will want to see him alot more than i could get there. Another issue i have is time, with 2 rabbits, other pets a toddler, housework, a 3 day a week job, an allotment and a partner that works 7am to 6pm 5 days a week its very difficult managing it all

bunnytoes said:

Sounds like the horse bedding will work good for him then. I tired everything else and had to change her litter box several times a day before. The brand that I use is Lone Star bedding but I am in the US. Just look for a pellet style horse bedding. It starts off as pellets. All liquid is absorbed and the litter fluffs up. I can only use a thin layer of it as the more she pees the more the stuff grows. if I put in too much it expands over the top of the litter box. The litter compost too. This should really help with his urine scald.

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I was using a wood pellet before that was cat litter but was told to not use it for rabbits because of it becoming poisonous or something? Is it paper based or wood based?

I don't have any advice but did not want to read and run (I would only have suggested megazorb which yo already have). I can fully understand your anxiety and frustration.

I hope that someone with some experience of this comes along soon. x

ETA - you could ask Hugo's there about "nappies", I am sure that she used these for one of her bunnies but she knew what the problem was.

bunny babe said:

I don't have any advice but did not want to read and run (I would only have suggested megazorb which yo already have). I can fully understand your anxiety and frustration.

I hope that someone with some experience of this comes along soon. x

ETA - you could ask Hugo's there about "nappies", I am sure that she used these for one of her bunnies but she knew what the problem was.

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Thank you for the vibes, we defiantly need them! It is very frustrating as its been going on for 6months now and there's still no light at the end of the tunnel, it feels like its never going to end and its not really fair on Buster either

shelley said:

Thank you for the vibes, we defiantly need them! It is very frustrating as its been going on for 6months now and there's still no light at the end of the tunnel, it feels like its never going to end and its not really fair on Buster either

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I know how you feel as we had poop issues that were ongoing and all tests showed nothing and vet (very good one) said it was just one of those things.

I really do feel for you but it may be worth contacting Liz to see if she has any advice (Hugo's there) - hope she doesn't mind me saying that

bunny babe said:

I know how you feel as we had poop issues that were ongoing and all tests showed nothing and vet (very good one) said it was just one of those things.

I really do feel for you but it may be worth contacting Liz to see if she has any advice (Hugo's there) - hope she doesn't mind me saying that

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Im sure she wont mind, thanks again.

Has he had any diagnostics at all re the incontinence ?

There are numerous possible causes, bladder sludge is certainly one of them. An abdominal Xray would be needed to diagnose this.


http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/Differentials/Incontinence.htm

I was going to suggest an x ray too. My hamster is having these issues (a bit different I know) but my vet said it could be kidneys or bladder stones. If you've got insurance to pay for it, it would be well worth it. But I think the first step would be trying a different or stronger antibiotic?

Is there a specialist vet near you that you'd like to go to? Could someone give you a lift or could you take public transport? Take your kid with you, I don't know how old he is but you could make it a bit of an adventure and take some colouring books and stuff with to do? Why would insurance not cover going to specialist vet?

I travel a couple of hours on public transport to my specialist vet. It's an absolute pain but it's so worth it for the rabbits.

Another thing to consider is that you might not need to actually go to the specialist. Your local vet could gather information and then send it to she specialist in a referral. The specialist then advises your vet and they carry on with the treatment, suggest further diagnostics etc. It might at some point require a trip to the specialist but it could easily be something sorted out locally but with specialist advice. As far as insurance cover is concerned, as long as you have funds left to claim it should be covered as it should surely be seen as vital to sort this out.

Bunny Buddy said:

Another thing to consider is that you might not need to actually go to the specialist. Your local vet could gather information and then send it to she specialist in a referral. The specialist then advises your vet and they carry on with the treatment, suggest further diagnostics etc. It might at some point require a trip to the specialist but it could easily be something sorted out locally but with specialist advice. As far as insurance cover is concerned, as long as you have funds left to claim it should be covered as it should surely be seen as vital to sort this out.

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:thumb:

Great idea. Or even just get your vet to ring the specialist vet for advice.

I was going to suggest getting your vet to ring the specialist as well. In fact if you're ringing a specialist then they could try Francis Harcourt-Brown who is, as far as I know, the leading authority on rabbit medicine in the UK. Loads of people on here have either seen her or consulted her for help. Our guinea pig became incontinent with a bladder stone by the way, it was diagnosed by xray.

Lots of vibes for you, I know how upset and frustrated you must be feeling x

Thank you every one for your support. I will take him to my vets again on Monday and ask if they can do x-rays. All of this occurred after Buster was on a course of Metronidazol. Whilst it is uncommon for this antibiotic to cause any such issues it has apparently been noted that it can unstable certain bacteria's. This is what my vet think happened as he was perfectly fine until he was treated with metranidazol for his jaw abcess (which was recommended by a specialist.) but i dont understand why this effect wouldnt have worn off after 6months. On one occasion a different vet saw Buster for his sistitus and said his bladder was enlarged and prescribed him with Baytril and Metacam but that was all. I could contact the previous specialist i spoke to but i don't want to be a go between for my vet and the specialist as i dont understand it very well and i think my vet would rather look into it further themselves than seek advice despite the fact that they've not come up with anything so far. Ive not been back to the vet for ages as i always come away with stuff i already have at home.

Taking him to a specialist whilst the best thingto do, just isnt an option. We are having difficulties with my sons behavior at the moment (he's almost 2) as it is and there's no way he will tolerate sitting in the push chair for such a long time and he runs off if he's not in it (i tried that at my vets last time and he knocked over a whole load of test tubes with stuff in, embarrassed to say the least) plus i cant carry a 2.5kg rabbit and push a 2 stone toddler in the buggy for an hour! Its a nightmare taking Buster at the moment and its a 5min walk down the road.

As for the insurance i think it will cover it but the vet has told the insurers that the sistitus is a secondary illness caused by the antibiotics from the first illness so its going to look as though im still claiming for the same thing which i believe there is a limit on and ive already claimed £700. Although im less concerned about the insurance really, its more illness that im concerned about.

I'll let you know the out come anyway. Thanks again

Your vet can make a referral to a specialist rabbit vet. They can do this remotely - ie you wouldn't necessarily need to go to that vets. Your vet liaises with that specialist vet, and sends over all the history and copies of diagnostics, including blood test results, x-rays etc, and any treatments tried so far. The rabbit specialist will then make an analysis of the situation and give them their expert opinion based on what they have in front of them.

I had this for one of my buns from Richard Saunders who works in Bristol and I am based in the Midlands. We didnt have to go down to see them.

However they may suggest that might be helpful, but in the first instance I would be insisting with your vet that more needs to be done to help your bunny. The urine burn will be causing him pain and he will be at risk of flystrike with a permanently dirty and wet bottom. It sounds like you are trying your hardest to look after a poorly bunny with other demands, but I don't think it is good enough of your vets to leave it at this. If they don't know they should admit they don't know and seek out appropriate advice for you (ie referral to a specialist for advice).

Also your insurance should cover you for any treatment/investigations that are necessary.

shelley said:

I was using a wood pellet before that was cat litter but was told to not use it for rabbits because of it becoming poisonous or something? Is it paper based or wood based?

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It is wood based but is supose to be safe for rabbits. The local rabbit rescue uses it.