EC can come in via the hay suppy!

Today i was discussing EC with my vet who said that EC can come in through the hay supply sometimes and it is sometimes useful to change supplier.

Has anyone heard of this before?

Thanks
~Jane

I have never heard of this, I don't suppose you have a link to an article? Or would your vet? I thought it was transmissable only through urine, and I vaguely remember something about does passing it on to kits?

"E-Cuniculi and Humans
It can affect some humans too, more commonly people with compromised immune systems such as people suffering from aids, young children and the elderly. Human sufferers liken the symptoms to a severe hangover.

How is it transferred?
There are 4 ways E-Cuniculi can be passed:
1. Spores in the urine
2. Orally - an animal eats contaminated material (ie hay)
3. Parent to child - via the placenta or milk
4. Inhaled - the organism can become airborne

Mice are a major carrier of E-Cuniculi, be extra careful if keeping food/hay etc. in a garage or shed where mice may have access.

E-Cuniculi in the Environment
There is no definitive way to kill e-cuniculi spores in the environment but a strong disinfectant containing ammonia - Virkon, ARK Cleanse or 1/30 bleach solution is recommended.
Also extremes of heat or cold may kill spores.
Once school of thought is that the spores may last longer if the rabbit lives indoors as the environment is more favourable for the organism. A longer treatment time for Panacur is often recommended because of this."

Source http://www.uk-pet-rabbits.4t.com/about.html

The talk and information came from one of the rabbit specialists at our vets and they sent us there for info when we first enquired about risks for keeping bunnies.

Useful information, thanks for sharing. :wave:

I now find it hard to believe that you can avoid the risks of EC, no matter how hard you try. When I was trying to work out why Bungee and Scratty died 4 years ago EC was up there as possible. I think I believed at the time that *if* they'd died of it then they *might* have got it through mouse urine, as I had read that that's a possibility. I had believed that the hay bag I kept in an outdoor store place then brought into the house may have had mice in, which came into the house via that route and that the mice had urinated on the hay. I got a mouse infestation in the house 6 months before they died and believed one (possibly pregnant!) came in via the hay bag.

Artie has EC and it would seem it was busy damaging him over 3 years ago without me knowing. It's possibly caused him to have bladder sludge and definitely caused one kidney to die but this may have started to happened years ago. He did have a few 9 day courses of Panacur between 2008 and 2010. I know he's got it and in the meantime all the other bunnies will have been exposed to it. What the vets have said to try and not make me OCD and paranoid about contimination is that they could all have it anyway. Art might have passed it to them, one of them might have passed it to Artie. I guess it's even possible for them to have it all their lives and be asymptomatic as far as we are concerned.

Edit to add: I store hay in mouse-proof containers now but buy it from a farm where it's kept in a barn - so probably got peed on by mices before it even got here :?

As I understood it, rats (and therefore I suppose mice too) who carry EC could wee on the hay and pass it on to the buns. EC spores can live for up to 28 / 30 days outside of the body.

I keep my hay inside in a large walk in cupboard, however I buy it loosely bagged from a farm so it could have been exposed to anything there. This is the hay I use for the litter trays etc. though obviously the buns nibble this one too.

I buy bagged eating hay that is usually more than 28 days old before use but obviously I can't guarantee my buns haven't had contact via the litter tray hay.

All we can do is minimise the risk I guess.

:wave:This is a very interesting thread because I also believe that all you can do, is your best to prevent EC. Regarding mouse contamination, whether buying ready bagged or from the farm, I think it would be impossible to say whether the Hay was contaminated or not, because it could be contaminated in the fields even before it was cut, baled, stored or bagged.

I buy direct from the farm and store in a large storage box in the garage. The Hay usually lasts me about two months/three months. I keep one of those electronic mouse plugs in the garage which does not to kill mice but is supposed to deter them from nesting. I only keep a couple of days Hay in the House in a plastic storage box for convenience and there is an electronic mouser in the house as well, just for prevention.

Considering the deteriorating consistency of hay in this country and the faltering quality control (I recently found a dead mouse in a bale) this is very distressing news.

But except for storing hay in the house or giving our rabbits a daily and unreasonable diet of panacur...what can we really do? This is similar to how we have to just 'accept' that most bunnies have or carry pasturella.

Our world is rapidly turning into a place where unsafe foods for any species are expected to be viewed as the norm. It's very frustrating.

My vet told me you can even walk the spores in on your shoes, so much more work needs to be done on understanding EC so a consensus on the best treatments can be decided.