Bad reaction to anaesthetic or bad vet care?

Fiver went for his dental today. Apparently he took a long time to come round from the anaesthetic but I was told he was ok and could collect him at 5pm. I collected him and was told he hadn't eaten anything and that he was cold so it was important to keep him warm (they'd had him on a heat pad). I figured he hadn't eaten because he was at the vets and he HATES the vets and they gave me some recovery food just in case. They told me that if he hadn't eaten by 10m tomorrow morning then bring him straight back in.

Getting home I let him out of his carrier, he hopped out but was very wobbly. He looked confused and generally depressed; looking at the receipt it didn't look like he'd had any pain relief. I rang the vets and asked about this and told them I had some Metacam on hand and what dose I should give him. He hadn't been given any painkillers and was told to give him 0.2mls of the Metacam. I laid in bed with him under the covers as he was VERY cold to the touch. Unusually for him he closed his eyes and laid there with me for quite a while before deciding to hop down (rather clumsily) and sit in his litter tray looking miserable. I've managed to get him warmed up a little and he seems a little more alert but still hasn't eaten more than a few mouthfuls or carrot and some banana (the only things I thought he'd scoff). He won't touch his recovery food but I syringed some in him (with great difficulty) and I have seen him have a drink. He's had a few poos in his litter tray but other than that nothing else. On top of this his eyes look very sore and he won't open one of them. He had this problem when he had his neuter (a few years ago now!).

I have put his pillow in front of the radiator and he has been sat on there, he's also been venting his annoyance out on it by scrabbling it and pushing it down which must be a good sign? I am really worried about him and am shocked at the state he is in Is this a reaction to the anaesthetic or has the vet care been substandard? I thought he would have been given warm fluids if he had been so cold and maybe some gut stimulants?

I apologise if this doesn't make much sense, it's been a very long and stressful day and I'm just about done tbh.

Really difficult to say whether it's a bad reaction to anaesthetic (may have been done later etc) but it sounds like he needed rather intensive care rather than being let home My rabbit vet would very definitely have kept him in overnight to make sure he ate, was kept warm, hydrated etc.

The lack of painkiller is bad, thank god you knew enough to ask. Poor bunny

Not eating I can understand but if he's not able to regulate his body temperature or had painkillers I would be worried. Plus 0.2ml is a very low dose. However if he's digging at his cushion now that's a good sign and GA takes 24 hours to wear off properly. All animals should be kept warm afterwards anyway.

After a dental I think you need a high dose of painkillers. I would leave soggy pellets and things like parsley to tempt him. How much does he weigh?

Sounds to me like he was the last fella down to surgery and they couldnt wait to send him home.

For pain, they may have administered a slow release jab which lasts 12 hrs....but if they say they didnt, then continue with metacam and give them a telling off.Specially as he was so cold.
A low temp, not eating bunny is an at risk bunny.

Also, if his eyes are wet, then I can safely presume they used gel as the eyes dont close in an op and they have to keep the eyes hydrated.xx

Yeh, I always get a receipt and check it to make sure he's had the meds he should have had but there was a lot of meds I don't recognise on it which worries me a bit :/ Apparently they are all anaesthetic related.

He just snatched some banana off me and ran off with it while flicking his feet at me :roll: So I think he's feeling better. I was confident with my vets until the vet I saw regularly left. I saw a different vet and she performed a dental on both Ellie and Fiver last year. Fiver was fine but Ellie seemed very slow to recover; not as bad as Fiver though, just not eating her hay and looking pretty sorry for herself. Fiver was fine the last time but then the same vet did a dental on Ellie and she died whilst under anaesthetic She had a lot of problems though and had been poorly for some time so I put it down to that. But now Fiver being so poorly after this has made me seriously question my vets.

To say I'm stressed out is a huge understatement. I feel so ill it's unreal and now I have to find a suitable vets that I can afford. This year has been dreadful

My little Girly had a dental last Tuesday and was kept in with her little husbun along side her I was allowed to go visit them on Wednesday tea time because she was being kept in till Thursday till she was eating drinkin pooin etc , and I brought them home Thursday tea time 

I feel so let down and so guilty that I have put him through that. He was so happy last night even though he was in a bit of pain (Metacam had taken the edge off) and was doing happy flops and had actually eaten more hay than he has done in weeks. My poor baby. I honestly don't know how much he weighs! He's not a big bunny, probably dutch size. I will go and weigh him. I have a feeling he may need more pain relief before the night is over and possibly a call to an emergency vet if he doesn't start eating properly. He seems mostly in pain now, he's perked up a lot and feels warm to the touch but when he eats, he stops chewing as if it hurts

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Vegan_Bunny said:

I feel so let down and so guilty that I have put him through that. He was so happy last night even though he was in a bit of pain (Metacam had taken the edge off) and was doing happy flops and had actually eaten more hay than he has done in weeks. My poor baby. I honestly don't know how much he weighs! He's not a big bunny, probably dutch size. I will go and weigh him. I have a feeling he may need more pain relief before the night is over and possibly a call to an emergency vet if he doesn't start eating properly. He seems mostly in pain now, he's perked up a lot and feels warm to the touch but when he eats, he stops chewing as if it hurts

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Don't feel bad, you didn't know. And once he recovers he'll feel even better.
His mouth is probably just sore.
What metacam do you have? Is it dog or cat? I'd be tempted to ring the vets and ask what weight they have on file for him. The dose for rabbits of the dog metacam is about 0.2ml per kilo of bunny. BUT DON'T GIVE IT TO HIM WITHOUT ASKING A VET FIRST.
I would leave him to his own devices as much as you can, just give nose rubs. Did you try soggy pellets? Both excel and science selective soak up water nicely and it's easier for dental bunnies to eat.

I will try soaking pellets. I gave him some of those fruit crunchy things but I only have tiny bits left, he scoffed them fine! But they are very small so maybe he will eat soaked pellets. He's definitely not impressed with the recovery food. Although when I checked him he did give a little indignant grunt for trying to move him Much more like himself.

My vets are closed and the emergency vets they use are totally different so I wouldn't think they'd have his records Otherwise I would ring them now. I didn't even get a "proper" dose from the vet when I rang She just told me to use the dose I usually use and it was the lowest dose because I was so worried about using it without vet advice; she'd given me some Metacam the week before after a bout of gas but it was in it's box still with no dosage on it. I knew Ellie had about 0.5mls of it and she was a big bunny He needed the pain relief to put him over until Monday and when I asked the vet she said that should be fine once a day. TBH I thought it was a pretty low dose but Fiver has never had anything wrong with him before and so has never needed any kind of meds...this is why I don't know his weight.

It is cat Metacam and so only has the dosages for cats on the box I won't give him anything more until I speak with a vet...although I can't contact my usual vet until tomorrow morning now. This is the problem with my area, all the vets use one emergency vet and don't have their own emergency vets. It should be standard practice to have their OWN emergency vets with their OWN vets and records!

The poor baby. I have a Fiver rabbbit too, he's a mini rex. He did very poorly after a dental once and similar to what you're describing. I even waited in the surgery for hours at his pickup waiting for the vet to prescribe pain meds only to be told he'd had them...when I looked at my bill later there was no sign of them...nor any sub q fluids!! I was livid. We changed vets at once. He only goes to a vet dental specialist who takes excellent care of him now.
We also be sure to have extra pain meds at home, ask for gut stimulant if needed and Critical Care (food supplement). I have a vet now who is more available for advice after any visit. My bunnies get stressed enough just going to and fro to cause illness.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your other bunny. That must have been terrible. One doesn't expect such a thing during what should be a relatively simple procedure. ((((((Hugs)))))))

I agree that if Fiver is perking up enough to be pummeling something he's feeling a bit better. I watch my buns for a few days after dentals just to be certain their routine is restored. Some of mine come right back and are eating happily again in 24 hours, while another will feel poorly for about two days or so. It really depends on the care they were given and the bunny's own recovery spirit. Well that and lots of freshly washed veggies I notice really help get them eating until they're ready for hay again.

Vibes to your Fiver from me and my Fiver that he is back to himself soon and that you will feel better soon as well.
((((((((((((Healing Vibes)))))))))))))))

Scarlet was very wobbly after a dental, the first one she had done, and when she was alot better the next time the vet said they had swapped to a different brand of fentanyl, same strength etc. but a different formulation that was better tolerated by bunnies. She has also been cold when she first comes home but that is just down to the anaesthetic and we keep her warm until she's warmed up. She normally has a metacam shot at the vets on the day she has a dental and then nothing after that because she eats and is fine within a 12 hours (we are very lucky with her). When she had her extractions last week FHB checked I had some metacam at home before discharging her in case we needed it.

If the vets didn't give any pain relief I would ask them to explain why as I wouldn't be happy with that either.

0.2ml of cat metacam won't even scratch the surface of any pain in a rabbit, in my opinion. It's just not strong enough. 0.2-0.4ml/kg/24 hours is the average, so if he was say a 2Kg bunny, he should get ~0.4-0.8ml/24 hours of DOG metacam. I dont know the dosing for cat metacam unfortunately, as we never use it.

I agree with others, he was probably very late on the surgery list and so still had a lot of GA in his system. Ginger comes home like that occasionally, but never as cold as you describe, just a bit 'spaced out' i would describe it as. I wouldn't be suggesting 'bad vet care' however, they just might not be particularly rabbit savvy, so don't realise any of the more intricate issues with rabbits post-GA etc. The comments re the metacam and pain relief etc tell me they aren't necessarily the best with rabbits. That doesn't mean its bad care.

Loads of vibes for Fiver that he's picked up this morning - let us know.

How is the poor little man this morning? Hope he is more like his old self. They are such a worry aren`t they? Give him an extra few noserubs from me and a squish if you can get away with it. It seems anyone is very lucky to find a good rabbit vet. I think I may see if I can find a more knowledgeable vet in my area for the buns not that I need one that often thank goodness.

Jan said:

How is the poor little man this morning? Hope he is more like his old self. They are such a worry aren`t they? Give him an extra few noserubs from me and a squish if you can get away with it. It seems anyone is very lucky to find a good rabbit vet. I think I may see if I can find a more knowledgeable vet in my area for the buns not that I need one that often thank goodness.

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Put a thread up in 'Rabbit Chat' with the title of "Rabbit Savvy Vet needed in <insert your area here>" - most people here have very rabbit savvy vet recommendations :wave:

GrahamL said:

Put a thread up in 'Rabbit Chat' with the title of "Rabbit Savvy Vet needed in <insert your area here>" - most people here have very rabbit savvy vet recommendations :wave:

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Thanks your a star :thumb:

Well.. I up until 3am with him. His temperature kept dipping and so I was having him in bed with me to keep him warm. My bedroom is really cold so it shows how bad he was at regulating his body temp. At 1:45am I decided to give him another dose of the 0.2mls of Metacam, he was looking in so much pain and was tooth grinding and "huffing". I made him a hot water bottle and wrapped it in a fleece...which he decided he hated and was just attacking :roll: But he at least had the option of somewhere warm to lay.
When I woke up this morning he had eaten all of his soaked pellets and the recovery food He's even munched some hay and left a nice pile off poo for me even if they are small and black. He had a few hard pellets but wasn't really interested I had him in bed with me again this morning and he just laid there next to me asking for nose rubs. That is so not like him He's still in pain and still squinting his eye. I have work at 1pm but I may ring in sick. I will ring the vet but I think she is in surgery today so wont ring me back until after 1 I wouldn't think and tbh I have no confidence that she will know what a good dose of Metacam should be given to him

Just weighed him, he weighs 1.965kg...to be exact. When I went up just now he had eaten a few more pellets. He is now sulking on the top shelf of his cage because I had to put him in the carrier to weigh him :roll: I am still convinced he's in pain but I daren't give him more metacam untill I get a proper dose for his weight. He's basically 2kg and so should be on at least 0.4mls of the dog metacam if what GrahamL says is right but this is the cat metacam so I would presume it would have to be a higher dose.

Hello Mimzmum :wave: Fivers always seem to worry us! Seems the name attracts trouble :roll: I hope your Fiver is doing well I was devastated when I lost Ellie as it was so unexpected. I cried for days and Fiver mourned her for weeks
He was fine after the dental he had previously but this time something has gone wrong/changed that he hasn't been able to cope well with. I think he would have recovered so much better and quicker if he'd just had the right dosage of painkillers in the first place!

Thank you so much everyone for being so supportive and sending all those vibes and advice. I honestly can't thank you all enough, he is improving but slowly. I just wish none of this had happened to him As soon as I manage to get him eating properly I think he'll feel better but his teeth are clearly painful still I still can't believe he had no pain relief whatsoever, it's such a good job I had some metacam and have experience in bunnies. I believe that if a bunny had been given to anybody else in this state with less experience (and no access to this brilliant forum and you lovely people ) than me he would certainly have died over night

I would STRONGLY recommend you get him to another vet for a look over and suitable pain relief. If this vet isn't rabbit savvy, its perfectly plausible they have not gone a good job on his teeth at all, and in fact, it has been known, that it can make it worse if a vet who doesnt know too much about rabbit dentals gets it wrong.

Another reason for his slow recovery, could be too much anaesthetic. This happened once to Ginger when she was given too much and she was in effect drunk for ~2 days. Was horrible to watch, but she slowly recovered. Thankfully, we have a great vet team.

I would, in my opinion, put a thread up in Rabbit Chat asking for a Rabbit Savvy vet in your area too. I would be asking for a second opinion right now.

I definitely will post up for a rabbit savvy vet. someone recommended a good rabbit savvy vet in Sunderland but that's a bit far for me to go. I called the vet and they want me to bring him in straight away I'm going to take them and see what they say and make sure he gets some adequate pain relief!! :evil: Hopefully an injection of metacam will be better and will last longer.

We'll see what they say. I think they could tell I was rather upset over his care.

Update you all when I get back.