• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

Help please - Beatrix & Annie - Sad Update

BinkyBun

Wise Old Thumper
Beatrix has been very territorial with Annie since Frasier died last November. I bonded the four of them earlier last year and both girls bonded easily with Darcy and Frasier (boys). The girls became okay but not amazing with eachother but I thought it would get better. Beatrix is the problem as Annie would be snuggled up with her if she was allowed to.

They never fight but Beatrix will chase her and pull out fur from Annie's botty if she can sometimes.

Annie and Beatrix can snuggle up on either side of Darcy as long as Beatrix doesn't eye-to-eye see Annie.

I had to take Beatrix to the vet the other day so I took Annie too for company and sneakily hoping it would bond them more. It did seem to work that evening as Beatrix's aggression was totally gone. No snuggling though. But today Beatrix is back to "normal". Beatrix is a lovely bunny but bossy with other bunnies.

Anyway I'm thinking I probably have to try rebonding them again but i really can't put Darcy (old boy) in a restricted space as he has arthritis and spondylosis. So he would have to be outside the pen.

Do you think this would be okay? Any other good ideas??

Thanks

Here are the offenders:

Beatrix

beatrix.png


Annie

anniej.png
 
Last edited:
I think if their relationship has been that of just 'tolerance' for some time and now Beatrix is becoming more of a bully you may need to consider having to separate the trio

Darcy obviously cant cope with lots of stress with all his health problems and Annie and Beatrix dont sound to be all that happy with each other.

Is having a pair and a single an option ? As they are all House Rabbits having a singleton is not like having an outdoor Rabbit on their own.
You may be able to keep them all in sight/smell of each other without the pair showing referred aggression if you have Annie and Darcy as a pair and bolshy Annie as the singleton ? Obviously it would be lovely to have a loved up trio, but if one is being badly bullied and another is frail then it may just not be a realistic expectation.

I am not a fan of trios though so hopefully someone else with more experience (and less bias ! :oops:) will be along later today.
 
If I remember rightly when you originally bonded them, was it the girls who were the problem? It is probably the loss of the dominant male figure either due to the loss of Frasier or the slow decline in Darcy which has allowed Beatrix to want to rule the house.

As they have been together for quite a while I am not convinced that starting again with the girls will make a lot of difference to what is going on, I am not convinced that you would gain anything from doing this, however I dont think you would also loose anything although this potentially could stress Darcy if he has lost access to his wives. If it was a sudden problem such as due to illness that had resulted in relationship problems I would suggest starting from scratch, however what you have clearly described is toleration of each other and this is a long term 'niggle' that they have with each other.

Have you looked to see if there is a particular time to the niggles between them, if it is adjust your routine to see if things improve or remain the same, feeding time for some bunnies is that time. Only you can assess from where you are the level of their niggles and if they would be happier being separated, as they are indoors you could keep them apart with panels.

Sorry I am not sure if what I have said will help or not.
 
Its not during dinner times as I always give them their veggies to them individually wherever they are sat at the time. I do this to stop any arguments. I've always done it this way.

I will keep an eye on times when it happens and see if there is any pattern.

I would prefer not to have separate them. I don't want one on their own.

When I originally adopted Annie and Beatrix to be bonded with Darcy, it did take some time. But once bonded they were a happy trio. Beatrix and Annie would snuggle up,play and eat together fine. I did get worried tho as Annie often got left out when Beatrix and Darcy were snuggled up together (very loved up buns). So I adopted Frasier for Annie. I hoped it would be a foursome but Darcy would not originally accept Frasier and then Beatrix rejected Annie after she bonded with Frasier.

If I did try to bond the girls again - I was planning to put them in a small pen here in the living room to bond with Darcy outside it but able to lie next to the pen and talk, sniff and see them. If you don't think this will work then I won't bother to do it.
 
Its not during dinner times as I always give them their veggies to them individually wherever they are sat at the time. I do this to stop any arguments. I've always done it this way.

I will keep an eye on times when it happens and see if there is any pattern.

I would prefer not to have separate them. I don't want one on their own.

When I originally adopted Annie and Beatrix to be bonded with Darcy, it did take some time. But once bonded they were a happy trio. Beatrix and Annie would snuggle up,play and eat together fine. I did get worried tho as Annie often got left out when Beatrix and Darcy were snuggled up together (very loved up buns). So I adopted Frasier for Annie. I hoped it would be a foursome but Darcy would not originally accept Frasier and then Beatrix rejected Annie after she bonded with Frasier.

If I did try to bond the girls again - I was planning to put them in a small pen here in the living room to bond with Darcy outside it but able to lie next to the pen and talk, sniff and see them. If you don't think this will work then I won't bother to do it
.

Personally I dont think it will work. There is VERY likely to be some serious referred aggression between B + A, you could end up with having 3 single Rabbits

Darcy's Epilepsy *might* be imapacting on Beatrix's behaviour. She may be able to pick up on an imminent seizure or the fact that there is something just 'not right'

I really dont think it is a good idea to put Darcy into a stressful rebond situation

If D + A get along well I personally would have them as a pair and B as a singleton.
 
You have both given me much to think about. Jane - you make a very interesting point that it might be Beatrix's transferred fear about Darcy. I'm going to watch them closely and make notes and try and find a pattern of this behaviour.

Beatrix is not constantly doing it so there is calm at times where they are all sat near eachother like right now. So there must be a pattern that I haven't picked up on yet.

Luckily with Darcy being a typical frenchie, old boy (8 this year), and his heavy medications (ephiphen causes sedation) he is not getting stressed by the girls when it happens. He leaves them to it and ignores it. This rabbit ignores a big noisy dyson hoover, hoovering around him too! I have to pick him and move to clean!:lol: He has always been like that with the hoover. But he does love snuggling with either of them when.

It would break either girls hearts to separated on their own and it would break mine to do it to them. But it is something I'm going to give some thought to. I really hope I don't have to do that.

Any more ideas and advice gratefully received xxx
 
Okay I've been watching the girls more closely trying to find a pattern to Beatrix's behaviour. My preliminary findings are that it may be my fault. :oops:

Today and tonight there has been no aggression from Beatrix at all. Its been lovely and calm.

So far I think Beatrix gets jealous of Annie and other times it could be hierarchy issues.

Since Frasier died I have made a lot of fuss of Annie (frasier was her boyf). I still make a lot fuss of Darcy and Beatrix but Beatrix has withdrawn a little while Darcy has been ill. I chat to them all constantly calling them by their pet cutesy names. Beatrix snuggles with Darcy and then I fuss Annie so she never feels left out.

Before Annie was in the other room with Frasier, Beatrix never heard me call her my little princess bun (which I also call Beatrix) and I wonder if upsets her.

I have been making extra effort to talk to all of them and everytime I give Annie fuss I make sure to go over and give Beatrix fuss too. This seems to be working so far.

Also when i give treats (they are sat wherever and one will come up to me at the sofa for treats) if I give Annie one that triggers Beatrix off. I think she wants it first. Once she has one (preferably first) she doesn't care if Annie has some.

This all sounds so obvious but I guess with Darcy being so ill for a long time now and losing Frasier, I've been a bit distracted. Once you try and look for a pattern it all comes a bit clearer. :oops: Like I say, this is early days so I need to keep watching and see how it goes.

Any more advice, tips and help would be gratefully received. xx
 
Okay I've been watching the girls more closely trying to find a pattern to Beatrix's behaviour. My preliminary findings are that it may be my fault. :oops:

Today and tonight there has been no aggression from Beatrix at all. Its been lovely and calm.

So far I think Beatrix gets jealous of Annie and other times it could be hierarchy issues.

Since Frasier died I have made a lot of fuss of Annie (frasier was her boyf). I still make a lot fuss of Darcy and Beatrix but Beatrix has withdrawn a little while Darcy has been ill. I chat to them all constantly calling them by their pet cutesy names. Beatrix snuggles with Darcy and then I fuss Annie so she never feels left out.

Before Annie was in the other room with Frasier, Beatrix never heard me call her my little princess bun (which I also call Beatrix) and I wonder if upsets her.

I have been making extra effort to talk to all of them and everytime I give Annie fuss I make sure to go over and give Beatrix fuss too. This seems to be working so far.

Also when i give treats (they are sat wherever and one will come up to me at the sofa for treats) if I give Annie one that triggers Beatrix off. I think she wants it first. Once she has one (preferably first) she doesn't care if Annie has some.

This all sounds so obvious but I guess with Darcy being so ill for a long time now and losing Frasier, I've been a bit distracted. Once you try and look for a pattern it all comes a bit clearer. :oops: Like I say, this is early days so I need to keep watching and see how it goes.

Any more advice, tips and help would be gratefully received. xx

Respecting their hierarchy is important, so if B is self appointed top Rabbit you need to always acknowledge her first, even if Annie is looking 'left out'. So feed B first, talk to her first etc. It can be hard to maintain this as it is obvious we will feel sorry for the Bun lower down the hierarchy.But if we acknowledge the 'lower' Bun first 'top Bun' will constantly feel the need to assert their authority.

Now you are able to identify what may be going on you will hopefully be able to manage things differently and harmony will be restored :D
 
Respecting their hierarchy is important, so if B is self appointed top Rabbit you need to always acknowledge her first, even if Annie is looking 'left out'. So feed B first, talk to her first etc. It can be hard to maintain this as it is obvious we will feel sorry for the Bun lower down the hierarchy.But if we acknowledge the 'lower' Bun first 'top Bun' will constantly feel the need to assert their authority.

Now you are able to identify what may be going on you will hopefully be able to manage things differently and harmony will be restored :D

Thanks Jane :wave: I guess I still see Darcy as the top bun/boss but now he is older and ill I guess Beatrix has hopped into the post. I'm going to keep making a discerned effort to treat Beatrix as top bun now. Its funny all the fuss I give Darcy and she never gets annoyed with him. But she is deeply in love him. Bless her.
 
All quiet on the Beatrix front....

We have had a lovely calm day. Earlier tonight there were two instances of chasing but no fur pulling. The first time I've no idea what happened as I was in the loo. I heard a kuffufle and yelled out "Beatrix stop" and she did (she always does when I yell this) and Annie came running into the loo to me. She waited for me then hopped back into the living room with me.

The second time Annie had spent a long time sat next to me at the sofa. Annie was sat next to me at top and Beatrix and Darcy are sat next to the sofa at the other end (near my feet). It was all fine until Annie moved to go to the litter tray then Beatrix jumped up and chased her. Not far and no fur pulling. Annie wasn't that scared as she came back straight after.

The funny thing as I've noticed Annie is really pushing the boundaries with Beatrix tonight. Sometimes while she is sat next to me at the sofa, she move closer to Darcy and Beatrix just to see how close she can get and then move back to me. Its working as Beatrix doesn't go for her or give her the "death stares". There are also areas of the living room that Beatrix sees as "hers" altho Darcy is obviously allowed. Annie keeps going over to these areas and hopping that bit more into them then coming back again. No chasing from Beatrix so far.

Annie is craving a lot of attention and fuss from me which I love to give. She is a bit like Darcy that way. As long as I lean over and fuss Beatrix first or even just talk to Beatrix first (she recognises her name and is a very clever bunny) its okay. :love:

Fingers and pawsies crossed it just keeps getting better xx
 
Glad you can see patterns with your bunnies, working with them may bring the resolution of their problems.

Hope it all works out ok
 
I've been really sick this week with sinisitus. Beatrix has been taking advantage of this and been bullying Annie again. No fur pulling but she keeps chasing her out of the room.:( Its bad enough that I've decided to separate them.:(

I can't get another rabbit right now and I don't one of them all on their own in the other room as its just not fair. So I have set up pen in the living room. They are going to take it in turns to have free ranging time. Beatrix is in the pen during the day and Annie will be in the pen at night. Beatrix is very active at night so this is best for her.

They both love Darcy so I'm not worried about them with him. They will both have free range and snuggle itme with Darcy and me.

I don't want people thinking Beatrix is bad bunny because she really is not. She is loving, affectionate, sweet and joyful. She has never been aggresive with me or Darcy. She just wont accept Annie.:(

She is settling into the pen now. She was busy rearranging it and digging in the tray but has settled in now. I feel so guilty. I have told her she will be out again tonight. :(
 
Its been so peaceful this afternoon. I have given them all treats and their dinner. Darcy hasn't noticed Beatrix isn't with him yet. He snoozed, eat, begged for fuss and treats and now is snuggled with Annie. I will swap the girls over later tonight so see how it goes. I believe both girls will be fine with Darcy but obviously if anything changes I will reassess. Any more tips or calming bunny vibes sent very much appreciated !! x
 
I think you have made the right decision. Annie and Beatrix can 'Time Share' Darcy without having to interact with each other and stress each other out xx
 
Back
Top