EC bunny :(

Hi All.
My 8 yr old bunny George developed a head tilt and lost weight and is now being treated for EC/ear infection.
He is now living in my house and his wifey is still outside in the hutch.
She seems fine. I regularly treat my bunnies 2/3 times a year with panacur paste so am devasted that he is looking like he has it.
The vet is also treating for mites and an ear infection so he has alot of medication.
I have laminate flooring so he is confined to my big rug as he keeps rolling if on the floroing. I have a massive dog crate that hubby is going to get out from the shed to put him in fior a few days.
I have some questions i am hoping you could help with.
1.He is on metacam 0.5ml he weighs 2.27....but we r syringe feeding and making sure he eats alot during the day. Does this doseage sound right? He starts to get agitated about 12/1 am like he needs more pain meds and his balance gets worse about that time too. I know this as i have been sleeping downstairs with him.
2.He also has conjunctivitis so we have fucithalmic acid twice a day.But his eye lids and skin round eye seem very red and sore.Been making sure he doesnt get the cream on to it. Could he be having a reaction to it?
3.Should i scrub the hutch with anything in particular to get rid of the parasite as i read its excreted in urine?
4.Should I take him out for short periods of tinme to his wife? She gets very stressed if brougfht inside for some reason. I really dont want to upset her anymore that i need to but I really worry leaving him outside incase he falls over asnd i am not there to help him.

So all in meds wise he has metacam 0.5ml, bayatrill 0.9ml twice daily,panacur paste 1 graduation daily as weight under 2.5, fucithalmic acid twice a day.
I am also treating the other bunny for ec too.vet says 9 days but should i just do her 28 as well as my ec bunny?

I am just so upset that they are split up. George is loving being in the house though he is chilled out, happy and loves the 2 dogs cat and three kids all sitting with him. I feel so sad that his wife is outside.

Sorry its a bit long!
Thanks for reading!!!
Any replies/help gratefully recieved!!!!

Leesa and George!

I have had two EC bunnies, one with Head Tilt. It is a rotten thing for them to get, but very often they can fight through it.

The dosage sounds about right, that is the same as my two weighed and I am sure that their dose was about that. But if you feel that he is getting adgitated then i would speak to the vets as it is possible to increase the dose.

My boy, Kermit had sore eyes with his tilt. I found that his up eye was getting really dry and I had to use artificial tears drops, the vets will have some available. Your bunny could be having a reaction, or his eye could be dry.

I am not sure what percent bleach soloution that you use, but you scrub with bleach on certain days after the start of panacur. I never did this as my Kermit was indoors, but i just cleaned what i could.

If he is getting about ok by himself then i would take him outside, but pad out the hutch with rolled towels or something like that so that if he does fall then he wont hurt himself. You could try her indoors a bit more, maybe if she is missing her mate she wont be so upset? I am sure that there are some people on here that have had outdoor bunnies with head tilt and left the bun outside, as long as they were managing to get about ok.

I only treated my other bunny with 9 days of panacur as he was showing no signs of EC.


Good luck, I know exactly what you are going through x

leesabuntine said:

Hi All.
My 8 yr old bunny George developed a head tilt and lost weight and is now being treated for EC/ear infection.
He is now living in my house and his wifey is still outside in the hutch.
She seems fine. I regularly treat my bunnies 2/3 times a year with panacur paste so am devasted that he is looking like he has it.
The vet is also treating for mites and an ear infection so he has alot of medication.
I have laminate flooring so he is confined to my big rug as he keeps rolling if on the floroing. I have a massive dog crate that hubby is going to get out from the shed to put him in fior a few days.
I have some questions i am hoping you could help with.
1.He is on metacam 0.5ml he weighs 2.27....but we r syringe feeding and making sure he eats alot during the day. Does this doseage sound right? He starts to get agitated about 12/1 am like he needs more pain meds and his balance gets worse about that time too. I know this as i have been sleeping downstairs with him.
2.He also has conjunctivitis so we have fucithalmic acid twice a day.But his eye lids and skin round eye seem very red and sore.Been making sure he doesnt get the cream on to it. Could he be having a reaction to it?
3.Should i scrub the hutch with anything in particular to get rid of the parasite as i read its excreted in urine?
4.Should I take him out for short periods of tinme to his wife? She gets very stressed if brougfht inside for some reason. I really dont want to upset her anymore that i need to but I really worry leaving him outside incase he falls over asnd i am not there to help him.

So all in meds wise he has metacam 0.5ml, bayatrill 0.9ml twice daily,panacur paste 1 graduation daily as weight under 2.5, fucithalmic acid twice a day.
I am also treating the other bunny for ec too.vet says 9 days but should i just do her 28 as well as my ec bunny?

I am just so upset that they are split up. George is loving being in the house though he is chilled out, happy and loves the 2 dogs cat and three kids all sitting with him. I feel so sad that his wife is outside.

Sorry its a bit long!
Thanks for reading!!!
Any replies/help gratefully recieved!!!!

Leesa and George!

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which metacam are you using cat or dog my vet uses dog metacam and i was giving 0.6ml for a bun weighing 1.7but only 0.4ml baytril and 0.25 stemetil (help with the rolling) and 28days panacur for my other buns,has your bun had a blood test?also both rabbits will be stressed at being apart i would definately be keeping them together good luck

Thank you for the replies.

I spoke to the "apparent" vet.My normal vet isnt back till monday.
I asked about somethinh for the rolling and he said no he cant give me much and i should realise he probably will probably end up PTS :shock::shock::shock:
Then i said could i give anymore pain medication ie metacam.... his words were yeah u could probably give him 1 and a bit mls!!! :shock::shock::shock: Never even asked if it was dog or cat metacam...its dog though.
WTH....he had clearly no idea!
oh and said yeah dnt keep him in the house as it will be too noisy. He needs peace n quiet. He is very at home in the house.very relaxed, lies out flat, has a sleep and is eating plenty.

I am going to line the hutch tomorrow with puppy pads then put loads of towels about on the floor and block the stiars off and then i will just wash and change towels everyday....and obviously bring him in for a bit during the day so he can have his meds and I can see him eating and walking and to give him a wee bit of a cuddle!

My hubby is not impressed either. He took him to the vet last week and she was very positive but did say he may not make the weekend....however we are 3 days into treatment so far.
I am meant to have the vet on thursday to weigh him and get his eyes checked but i cant get him in the pet carrier at all he just keeps rolling....its so distressing to watch. Am not sure but it might be that the pet carrier is too claustrophobic as he has a head tilt. I have had someone be with him 24 7 for the last few days and even my 9 yr old manages to help when he rolls.

I got ivermectin to put onto him too which i did tonight but its making him roll more due to him feeling it and wanting to groom himself so he keeps going on his back legs,loosing his balance and tipping over and then rolls . I have swore to myself and my kids i will do what it takes to try help him through this.

I would be happier if i could get him weighed and a quick check over at the end of the week just so I know he is putting weight on and get his eyes checked. Might ask about some lubricant for his eye too.

He just looks so awful just now and its heart wrenching watching him flip over and roll. I wish the medication would properly kick in so I could see even a tiny improvement. Today I thought his head tilt looked worse but hubby said its the same....I dnt even know anymore

Thankyou so much for ur replies. It means a lot knowing some others have been through this.

leesabuntine said:

Thank you for the replies.

I spoke to the "apparent" vet.My normal vet isnt back till monday.
I asked about somethinh for the rolling and he said no he cant give me much and i should realise he probably will probably end up PTS :shock::shock::shock:
Then i said could i give anymore pain medication ie metacam.... his words were yeah u could probably give him 1 and a bit mls!!! :shock::shock::shock: Never even asked if it was dog or cat metacam...its dog though.
WTH....he had clearly no idea!
oh and said yeah dnt keep him in the house as it will be too noisy. He needs peace n quiet. He is very at home in the house.very relaxed, lies out flat, has a sleep and is eating plenty.

I am going to line the hutch tomorrow with puppy pads then put loads of towels about on the floor and block the stiars off and then i will just wash and change towels everyday....and obviously bring him in for a bit during the day so he can have his meds and I can see him eating and walking and to give him a wee bit of a cuddle!

My hubby is not impressed either. He took him to the vet last week and she was very positive but did say he may not make the weekend....however we are 3 days into treatment so far.
I am meant to have the vet on thursday to weigh him and get his eyes checked but i cant get him in the pet carrier at all he just keeps rolling....its so distressing to watch. Am not sure but it might be that the pet carrier is too claustrophobic as he has a head tilt. I have had someone be with him 24 7 for the last few days and even my 9 yr old manages to help when he rolls.

I got ivermectin to put onto him too which i did tonight but its making him roll more due to him feeling it and wanting to groom himself so he keeps going on his back legs,loosing his balance and tipping over and then rolls . I have swore to myself and my kids i will do what it takes to try help him through this.

I would be happier if i could get him weighed and a quick check over at the end of the week just so I know he is putting weight on and get his eyes checked. Might ask about some lubricant for his eye too.

He just looks so awful just now and its heart wrenching watching him flip over and roll. I wish the medication would properly kick in so I could see even a tiny improvement. Today I thought his head tilt looked worse but hubby said its the same....I dnt even know anymore

Thankyou so much for ur replies. It means a lot knowing some others have been through this.

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when coco was rolling i tried her in the garden and she just stopped rolling after she got her bearings and with abit of support from me once she got going she was normal apart from her head tilt, found out off marie my vet that the eye needs to be in line with the horizon for them to get there balance and to help with the rolling ,i would personally up her metacam slightly and try to find a exotic vet in your area, where are you based? ru might be able to help find a good vet,until i found a good vet i tried 3 other vets who all wanted to pts but i knew she could recover which she has even her tilt has gone, pls try to be strong they can get better if they get the right treatment/vet

I was also told to get my Kermit PTS by my original vets. I found this forum, got advice and changed vets. Many vets have not much experience with it and don't see success stories. There are many bunnies that just recover totally 100%, some are left with a head tilt but manage to adjust (my Kermit was like this).

My Kermit rolled uncontrollably in the pet carrier. I put him in a large storage box with towels rolled up all the way round it when i was taking him to the vets. It meant that he couldnt move much which was not ideal for him, but it meant that he also couldnt roll so i found it much better.

Try not to lift him much as that upsets the balance and makes them roll more.

My EC bunnies took weeks to get over it. Kermit was the worst, he couldn't even walk for the first few days that he got his head tilt, then he always used to roll so much. It is very distressing to watch, but bunnies cope with things a lot better than we do, he sounds like he is fighting through this.

The main thing is that he is eating, drinking, peeing & pooing, and you have the added bonus that he is managing to get around, albeit with rolling too.

Fingers crossed that your actual vet knows a bit more.

I just lost a bun to ec renal failure, she had no head tilt. My vet, recommended my other buns be treated with a 28 day course of treatment, not 9, as they had been exposed to the infected urine. I really hope your bun pulls through. It must be heart breaking for you.

Aww sarahsum am really sorry to hear about your wee bunny
Thank you for ur replies.
George been rolling a lot and balance is a bit off and his head tilt is def worse. It's horrific to watch. He is still eating albeit mainly veg and hay but at least he is eating.
I am just praying it's going to start getting better soon. Might up his metacam to 0.6ml tomorrow. The original vet I seen said 0.9ml for him and metacam.
I have had his wee wifebun in for the last 5 hours. They have been fine together. Am about to put her out in the hutch and I will spend the nIght in the living room with him.
Just pray he starts to show signs of recovery....if he would stop spinning/ rolling it would be much easier.
Thank you all again for replying. X
Finger crossed for an uneventful night. X

How did your little lad get on through the night?

I am afraid to say that my Kermit rolled for weeks, months even. I really hope that is not the case with George, but just be prepared for small tiny baby steps forward in the recovery, but if he is fighting then it is a good sign.

Continued get better vibes from me x

Hi again
I stayed downstairs with him and I was up 4 times with him rolling.
He's eaten his food through the night and peed and pooped.
Am about to give him his metacam and then after an hour I will do his antibiotic, eye cream.
His head tilt is fairly bad. He Is still running about though.
I am going to set up his hutch with towels and puppy pads so he doesn't fall over a litter tray. And will just change it daily.
The big problem is getting him to the hutch! Even walking him into the pet arrived causes his to roll as soon as he sees the carrier over himself. I would prefer him to be wih his wife as its less stress on them both.
Will try get him into a box or my dog crate and gently take him out.

If I don't restrain him by cupping my arms round his sides when he rolls will he stop himself? And be able to get up? That's what worries me putting him in the hutch. I worry he is going to be left lying on his side

Right best get toddler in pram and take kids to school. Hubby here to watch him.
Thank you again.

Put him in a large storage box like i described above to move him.

If you put rolled towels and things that he can lean on in the hutch then he should be able to right himself when he rolls.

yes thats what i did put blankets all round the hutch just becareful he cant poke his eyes on hay,toys etc have you tried bun in the garden coco was great in daylight

Had another day of rolling.
The more he rolls the worse the tilt seems.
He's still eating drinking and going to the toilet. Running about and occasionally rolling.
Tried getting George into my dogs crate as he is shattered but he keeps rolling when in a crate or pet carrier an despite padding it out or gently holding he never regains balance to sit up.
I'm just not sure at what to do

What a wonderful bunny mummy you are. Sadly not everyone goes to so much trouble when their pet is poorly.

In answer to a previous question I believe the bleach cleaning needs to be done, with a 10% blach solution, on days 8 and 21. Everywhere and anything that could have been touched by urine, even via paws, shaking etc needs to be done. For anything that cannot be bleached I think steam cleaning is ok.

Its a long haul but hopefully you can get him through this.

Wishing you strength and the best of luck.

Buttercup our lovely girl bun had headtilt caused by EC two years ago this month. I really thought she was going to die or at least never recover so that she would be in that awful position for life. It took weeks, 28 day dose of panacur, metacam for weeks, cream for her eye that looked really bad and lots of TLC. She rolled (I though she was fitting), she couldn't stand, her eye sight was affected, her head was so twisted back it was unbelievable - I never thought she would survive. Our then vets were not rabbit savvy and for weeks we made so little progress and a number of vets across three different practices said we should have her put to sleep.

I researched everything, everywhere and got a fair bit of info from a woman in America (don't have it now as computer crashed 18 mths ago and I lost all I had saved). Basically she told me about the EC spores and how they can live outside the body for up to 28 days - hence the reason to bleach days 21 and 28 I was told. We did and still do a bleach out one part bleach / nine parts water once every 21-28 days just in case. The panacur helps to rid the bun of the parasite and the metacam helps with the inflamation in the brain that causes symptoms like head tilt, hind leg paralysis etc.

Buttercup went on to make a full recovery - I feel unsure saying this as another RUer pointed out a couple of weeks ago that EC / head tilt can come back etc and suggested I researched this further. I think however as Buttercup has been tilt free and acts 100% normal, is healthy and happy that that constitutes a full recovery!! Some other people may disagree but I am more than happy with the outcome 22 months down the road. What made the greatest difference was finding a rabbit savvy vet who really knew what he was talking about and was willing to treat Buttercup aggressively - we had nothing to lose, she was so ill so we went down the route of aggressive treatment with a very experienced vet.

Buttercup is currently cwtching to her husbun Squirrel ( we treated him with 28 days panacur too) and she is part of a family of 9 house buns.

Good luck, it is very hard and distressing for us sometimes more than the buns, I remember Buttercup would be rolling, I would be breaking my heart, call my hubby as I didn't want her to see me upset and he would come in and catch her eating a strand of hay as she was rolling!! I also found between 2am and 5am in the morning the worst time for rolling - so I stayed up with her and held her. Again not easy woth two children and a full time job but I was able to manage - just!

I hope you see some improvement soon - it is a long road but they can and do recover. Buttercup is just nomming away to confirm this now xxx

Best wishes
Ruth x

Morning and thank you everyone for your replies
Had a terrible night. He is rolling more and loosing balance more.
I'm sat here thinking the worst while hubby and kids in bed. It's the fact there is no improvement at all. And the tilt is worse. I'm thinking I am fighting a loosing battle.
I have given him some 0.9 ml and he's munching on a carrot. I think he needs more metacam but the vet just said one and a bit. But I Dnt want to kill him. He's only 2.2 kilos unless he has lost weight since sat.
Meant to have the vet at 1030 for the nurse to check on him but I can't even get him into a box or carrier as he continually rolls. I want his weight checked as he feels a bit lighter.
When he rolls should he be able to get himself back up? Because he can't
I have had someone with him 24/7 with him.

Did anyone's bunny get worse before any improvement?
Think I am clinging onto hope here.

My Kermit was terrible when he first got ill. He rolled all the time when he moved. It did take a couple of weeks intensive care from me to get him even walking again.

Think I might see if he can have stronger antibiotics cause he does have an ear infection. He is on baytril so maybe there is something stronger he can have.
And hubby going to ask about anti nausea med stemetil.

so sorry there is no improvement it was about 2wks before coco started to show signs of getting better but that was only due to her meds being upped by my new vet,it is a good sign he is still eating he is fighting it but totally sympathise its so destressing see your bun rolling,when i took coco to the vet i just held her as she roll uncontrollably in the carrier

There are no "stronger" antibiotics only different ones that. Different antibiotics are better with different infections. I believe baytril is the usual one given for ec, although perhaps not for an ear infection, I don't know. You could look at the health stickies and investigating the threads noted there for more info.

Could you check buns weight at home and have a telephone consult with your vet/nurse under the circumstances?