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View Full Version : Single rabbits (& help with hutch repair post 119)



vergo97
14-02-2012, 02:02 PM
I know that most people on here prefer rabbits to be kept in pairs or more and that rabbits prefer to not be alone, but I was wandering if a rabbit has been alone all his life, will he still not like living alone if he knows no different? My rabbit Freddy is outside so isn't as in contact with people as indoor rabbits and has never had a companion (he's about 5-6 years old). He doesn't seem to be depressed about being alone.

janice
14-02-2012, 02:12 PM
I know that most people on here prefer rabbits to be kept in pairs or more and that rabbits prefer to not be alone, but I was wandering if a rabbit has been alone all his life, will he still not like living alone if he knows no different? My rabbit Freddy is outside so isn't as in contact with people as indoor rabbits and has never had a companion (he's about 5-6 years old). He doesn't seem to be depressed about being alone.

Whilst your bunny has not in his adult life since leaving his mum not known what it is like to live with anther rabbit, if you saw Freddy with a wife bun you would then never consider having a lone rabbit again. When you see your own bunny snuggled up to another one it is unlikely that you would ever go back to keeping a lone bun again.

Captain Helen
14-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Whilst your bunny has not in his adult life since leaving his mum not known what it is like to live with anther rabbit, if you saw Freddy with a wife bun you would then never consider having a lone rabbit again. When you see your own bunny snuggled up to another one it is unlikely that you would ever go back to keeping a lone bun again.

Can't say it better than that!

littleboots
14-02-2012, 02:18 PM
I think its even more important if bunnies are outside, that they have a companion.

susie bun
14-02-2012, 02:25 PM
My rabbit is single, but if my circumstances were different I would get him a friend. He used to be outside, but is now indoors. I really wouldn't like to see him going back to being a hutch rabbit as at least he gets more interraction with us indoors.

chul
14-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Whilst your bunny has not in his adult life since leaving his mum not known what it is like to live with anther rabbit, if you saw Freddy with a wife bun you would then never consider having a lone rabbit again. When you see your own bunny snuggled up to another one it is unlikely that you would ever go back to keeping a lone bun again.


I think its even more important if bunnies are outside, that they have a companion.

These!

vergo97
14-02-2012, 02:35 PM
Freddy can't become an indoor rabbit because we have cats and in his hutch/run there isn't enough room for another rabbit. I know it would be best to have another rabbit for him, but surely if he has never known it, he won't be upset by not having companionship?

littleboots
14-02-2012, 02:53 PM
You will never really know if hes upset or not :( Single lonley buns... just accept their lot and get on with it... It doesnt mean he wouldnt be happier with some company.
Winter nights are long and lonely for a bun in the garden in a hutch, less time spent with them, due to dark nights, weather etc :(
Each to their own... but I couldnt bare it.

ninny40
14-02-2012, 02:57 PM
My bunny (George) is a 'singleton' and has always been - he's now 10½ years old and I have had him since he was 12 weeks old. He lives in the shed, with an outside extension and is perfectly fine. As long as you give your buns lots of fuss and love and attention I think he'll be ok. George is now far too spoilt and old to want a girlfriend - he just wouldn't have the energy or attention span!!

vergo97
14-02-2012, 02:59 PM
I would get him a friend if I could, but I'm not allowed any more pets and he lives in this which isn't big enough for another rabbit:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/DSCF3924.jpg

madcatwoman
14-02-2012, 04:02 PM
We took on a rescue female last year to be a friend to our recently bereaved boy.

She was 5 and a half and always been on her own, the 2 weeks she was with tommy were lovely to see, she loved him instantly and was incredibly happy, sadly after only 2 weeks tommy died, maybe Twinkle wasnt a good enough replacement wife for him.

Twinkle is now totally loved up with a boy who had lived with his brother till he died. They adore each other, I love having a pair, they are outside so snuggle to keep warm in the shed, they groom each other all day and are so in love.

Having said all this having one well looked after bunny is better than having maybe lots and not giving them what they need.

My rabbits are only 2k and get on fine with the 3 cats and the neighbours cats, the rabbits know they are in charge and the cats put up with it:lol:

The Duchess
14-02-2012, 04:22 PM
I have bonded a 9 year old boy (who had never had a friend and lived in a 4ft box) that a lady took on when the neighbours gave him up, with a rescue bunny who was 8 years old and who also had never had a friend.

The absolutely loved each other to bits and have never looked back. That was well over a year ago and the owners report them to be so much in love and having a lot of fun out and about.

Her set up wasn't the biggest but did pass a homecheck. To be honest, if it's big enough for one bunny it's usually big enough for two so maybe with a bit of tweeking your set up could be adapted to suit you having a pair? So long as the bunny you go for isn't huge.

I do think that bunnies on the whole do miss a friend and I see it time and time again with rabbits that come into rescue even later in life; they come alive, even just being near other rabbits so you can imagine the joy when they actually get a chum of their own.

All of this said, it is a massive commitment having bunnies at all so if an owner can't afford the time or the money (for vet bills) for two then sometimes it's better to leave things well alone and have one very well cared for rabbit rather than two that can't be managed.

vergo97
14-02-2012, 05:00 PM
I really don't think another rabbit could fit in with Freddy, I don't even think its officially big enough for one rabbit (the run is 2x2x5ft, not sure about the hutch). My mum said that we aren't going to get any more pets anyway :(

The Duchess
14-02-2012, 05:06 PM
I really don't think another rabbit could fit in with Freddy, I don't even think its officially big enough for one rabbit (the run is 2x2x5ft, not sure about the hutch). My mum said that we aren't going to get any more pets anyway :(

Well then you have to just do the best you can to spend an awful lot of time with your bunny whatever the weather so you know he is not sad or lonely and that he has lots of stimulation.

It's a shame, but if your mum won't let you have any more, then there's not much you can do I guess.

yaretzi
14-02-2012, 05:10 PM
Unfortunately, almost any rabbit kept alone (without friend(s) or at least being able to see rabbits if they won't bond) without almost constant human interaction will be lonely/depressed. A rabbit is a very social animal and I believe they can't be truly happy unless they have social interactions. Obviously some circumstances mean rabbits aren't currently bonded (but really the only 'excuse' I see as valid is the animal is ill and needs to get better before bonding), but it's the duty of the rabbit owner to provide adequate social interactions, and this is actually enforceable by law. It's a very lonely life for a single bunny kept outside. They may see humans a few times a day but it's absolutely nothing on the companionship one of their own would provide.

Your setup isn't bad, I believe it would accommodate another bunny. At least, I believe it's more important for your bun to be able to have a friend than it is to give him a bit more space. Another bunny really doesn't take up or require much more room, they'll use the same space. It would be fabulous if you could attach another run though, to give them more space.

Please consider getting him a friend. Although he doesn't 'seem depressed', it's a human emotion which we're using to anthropomorphise him. If rabbits even have the ability to feel depressed, they may not express it in the same ways that humans do - so it could be totally unnoticed by you. Also, some things you may have come to see as 'normal' behaviour from him may be him expressing distress.

It's not natural for a rabbit to be kept alone. Rabbits are naturally social animals and they NEED company for their physical and mental wellbeing.

helennnnnn
14-02-2012, 05:12 PM
Perhaps if you showed your Mum something like this http://www.pressdispensary.co.uk/releases/c993328/Lonely-Girl-Seeks-Valentine-to-Share-Life-With.html she might change her mind

Snowberry
14-02-2012, 05:17 PM
Hi, I see you are from Newark, me too! I have three single rabbits and have also had a bonded pair before. I am a special case as I can say 100% 2 of mine are happier and healthier as singles than they were together as one bullied the other constantly. My third has never had a partner and lives as a house bunny.

Looking at your hutch/run, do you lock bunny in the hutch at night? As the run is on grass it would be easy for a fox to dig in or for bunny to dig out.

vergo97
14-02-2012, 05:23 PM
Hi Snowberry :wave:

I really would get him a friend if I could. I've looked at rescue websites but they would all say that Freddy doesn't have enough space for another bun.

Now isn't the best time to be asking my mum about getting more pets as one of our cats has something wrong with him and has just has some blood tests that have cost £120, and then we'll probably have to spend more on treating whatever he has :(

I have asked my mum about getting another run to attach to his current one, but she didn't seem to keen on the idea. I asked her quite soon after we had got the run we have at the moment, so I'll try asking again in a bit, but not now because of all the money she's just spend on Casper (the cat).

He doesn't get locked in his hutch at the moment because the ground has been quite hard so he can't really dig but I might start doing that soon. He hates being shut in the hutch though, he throws his food bowl down the ramp and tears up all the newpaper :?

Snowberry
14-02-2012, 05:25 PM
Hi Snowberry :wave:

I really would get him a friend if I could. I've looked at rescue websites but they would all say that Freddy doesn't have enough space for another bun.

Now isn't the best time to be asking my mum about getting more pets as one of our cats has something wrong with him and has just has some blood tests that have cost £120, and then we'll probably have to spend more on treating whatever he has :(

I have asked my mum about getting another run to attach to his current one, but she didn't seem to keen on the idea. I asked her quite soon after we had got the run we have at the moment, so I'll try asking again in a bit, but not now because of all the money she's just spend on Casper (the cat).

He doesn't get locked in his hutch at the moment because the ground has been quite hard so he can't really dig but I might start doing that soon. He hates being shut in the hutch though, he throws his food bowl down the ramp and tears up all the newpaper :?

Would it be possible to move the hutch/run onto a patio so he can't dig? You are right he really shouldn't be locked in the hutch as it is quite small but I really don't think being on grass is safe for him. Is your garden secure, could he have time running free every day to get exercise?

vergo97
14-02-2012, 05:30 PM
I think this week some time we are going to see if he can be moved onto the patio because he is starting to ruin the grass.

The garden is secure so he can be let out, I let him out when I clean the hutch out but I haven't been able to do it much during the week because it's dark when I get home from school, but now its getting lighter (and its half term a the moment) I really should do it more. I'm at my dads house at the moment, but on Thursday when I am back at my mums I will let him out for a bit.

Snowberry
14-02-2012, 05:34 PM
I think this week some time we are going to see if he can be moved onto the patio because he is starting to ruin the grass.

The garden is secure so he can be let out, I let him out when I clean the hutch out but I haven't been able to do it much during the week because it's dark when I get home from school, but now its getting lighter (and its half term a the moment) I really should do it more. I'm at my dads house at the moment, but on Thursday when I am back at my mums I will let him out for a bit.

I would try and make sure he gets out every day, even if it is only for half an hour. My garden is 100% secure so I let one of mine out at 6:30am while I get ready for work then put them away before I leave. Then the other comes out as soon as I am home, (as long as its still light) for an hour. Some don't recommend allowing bunnies to free range on the garden without u being out with them but I do mine as otherwise they would never get out and I know my garden is safe.

It is starting to get lighter n the evenings again now so unless u go to school miles away you should be ale t give him at least half an hour on the garden when you get in.

Looking at that picture could you rotate it all 90 degrees so it's going length ways along the bit of patio it is currently sat on? It might not be wide enough, it's hard to tell from the photo but worth a go.

vergo97
14-02-2012, 06:05 PM
Yep I'll try to let him out more. I wouldn't want to leave him on his own for long because there are lots of cats in my street (including my own). I get back from school at 4 so I do have time to let him out.

I was thinking of maybe moving his hutch to where the table/chairs/bench is. The bench could go where his hutch is at the moment and I'm not sure what would happen with the table and chairs. Maybe they could go in the garage for the winter and go on the grass in the summer.

Snowberry
14-02-2012, 07:17 PM
Yep I'll try to let him out more. I wouldn't want to leave him on his own for long because there are lots of cats in my street (including my own). I get back from school at 4 so I do have time to let him out.

I was thinking of maybe moving his hutch to where the table/chairs/bench is. The bench could go where his hutch is at the moment and I'm not sure what would happen with the table and chairs. Maybe they could go in the garage for the winter and go on the grass in the summer.

That sounds like a good idea, I bet no-one uses the table and chairs in winter anyway!

KarenM
14-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Ideally rabbits are happiest in pairs/groups but there are situations where that isn't always going to be possible. I know that you had to work very hard on your mum to allow you to get a bigger run for Freddy, so it may be that getting a friend for Freddy isn't going to be an easy task either, and you have to ultimately go with what your mum says.

The new run is great, by the way, and I bet Freddy loves the extra space. :love: If you move it on to the patio (so that nothing can dig in or out) then Freddy would be able to have constant access to his run too. :thumb::D You would need to also make sure the run is securely attached to the hutch (you can use some hasp and staple type locks with padlocks) as foxes are also very good at dragging things.

I know some people choose to let their bunnies run around in the garden unsupervised (& ultimately the choice is yours) but I would advise that you supervise Freddy if you let him out - it doesn't take a bunny long to get into some sort of trouble or for a predator to enter the garden. Foxes are around during the daytime too and, even if you've never seen one, you can never be 100% sure they aren't in the area. Some members on here have only found out they have foxes visiting after the sad loss of their bunny/bunnies. :(

vergo97
14-02-2012, 11:36 PM
Yep, I wouldn't want to leave him in the garden unsupervised. Freddy can't get out of it, but other animals like cats can get into it. Although, once, Freddy got out of his hutch in the night and was chasing one of our cats around the garden in the morning! :lol: I suppose because he isn't neutered he is more hormonal and territorial than our neutered cats.

The hutch isn't attached to the run at the moment, but if I did attach it I don't know how I would access the lower hutch. There is a litter tray there now and to get to it I tilt the hutch up, but if the run was attached to it that would be hard to do.

KarenM
14-02-2012, 11:50 PM
:lol::lol::lol: Freddy sounds very like my Alfie - he chases our cat given the chance :roll: but the cat would love to chase Bubbles, as she knows Bubbles is wary of her.

The hutch wouldn't need to be permanently attached - if you use a hasp and staple locks on each side, you can undo them whenever you need to access the hutch. :D The ones I've got look something like this but there are different types http://www.wickes.co.uk/wire-hasp-and-staple/invt/159615/?source=123_74 and you would attach one part to the run, the other to the hutch.

They're held together with a padlock, or you can also use carabiner clips (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-carabiner-carabiners-keyring-clip-handbag-clip-mobile-phone-bag-clip-/260945247080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cc18c7b68#ht_1170wt_1396) which mean no fiddling for keys.

If you have a Wilkinsons nearby the locks themselves are only a couple of pounds each and you can often get the clips (or padlocks) from a pound shop, so it needn't be too expensive.

vergo97
17-02-2012, 10:41 PM
Those clips look really good, I'll tell my mum about them and hopefully we will buy some. :)

vergo97
17-02-2012, 11:45 PM
This is a bit off topic, but do you think that the only place I can have hay is in the bed area? When I put hay in other areas of the hutch it is exposed to rain or at the top of the hutch it just gets pushed down the ramp and ends up getting wet/trampled on anyway.

Chelle (on this forum) kindly gave me some hays/leaves/twigs and at the moment there is a blanket, hawthorn twigs and sunflower leaves in Freddy's bed area and I've put the hay outside of his bed (sorry if this is a bit confusing!). I worry that the hay will get pushed down the ramp and then get wet but I can't think of what else to do as in his bed is the only place that is sheltered completely and I don't want to cover up the blanket completely. :? Is there a way I can make sure that the bottom of the hutch doesn't get wet?

KarenM
18-02-2012, 11:26 AM
You could use something like a shower curtain, or a clear polythene sheet (I think they're sold in B&Q and other DIY stores) to keep the rain out of the lower floor. There needs to be some ventilation still, which shouldn't be a problem as you wouldn't be able to cover the part that joins on to the new run anyway. :D

beki
18-02-2012, 01:11 PM
I have a similar sized hutch to you, slightly bigger. Not the best size but I am working on it. I was digging my garden to level it so I could set up an aviary but pregnancy and a boyfriend with an arm injury got in the way of my plans. The plans will start again in the summer.

Anyway, I have a run too, 6x4. I have two bunnies in this, both fairly small, one is a 1.4kilo nethie and one a 2kilo bunny, They are shut in the hutch at night as we have foxes and they do not get free range time in my garden as it is very unsecure. they do get to play in the house though. I think if you can persuade your mum to let you have another bunny you can get a small one , like a nethie and they would both be happy in the hutch and run together. I thought my bunny ruby was OK without a friend, she seemed fine, very sociable, but then i got reggie and she spends hours snuggled up to him and he grooms her, its so sweet.

chelle
19-02-2012, 01:03 AM
You could use something like a shower curtain, or a clear polythene sheet (I think they're sold in B&Q and other DIY stores) to keep the rain out of the lower floor. There needs to be some ventilation still, which shouldn't be a problem as you wouldn't be able to cover the part that joins on to the new run anyway. :D

^^ I agree...you can also buy clear PVC from "The Range" and its £2/ £3 a metre - so you could staple this onto the bottom of the hutch and leave a small gap or one area uncovered for ventilation....you could then roll it up on sunny days - almost like a blind. This was Freddy wont get too hot when its summer but you can roll it down at night and when its raining.

Id perhaps get a hay rack and cable tie this to the area above his litter tray - this way he can sit there an pull fresh hay out of it...of course you can also put a handful of hay into his litter tray too. Having a hay rack just ensures that at least some of his hay will stay dry and not pooped and wee'd all over.
Or pushed down the ramp!:lol:

I hope he is enjoying his hawthorn, sunflower leaves and different hays!:thumb:


ummm.....more piccies!:love::love::love:

vergo97
19-02-2012, 02:02 PM
That's a really good idea, I will see if I can get a sheet next weekend and attach it to Freddy's hutch. In the pictures on the previous pages his litter tray is in the run, but is is now in the lower area of the hutch because that is where it was before I got the run and he kept going to the toilet in that corner. I cannot access that area easily, to clean the litter tray I have to tilt the entire hutch up and drag it out. If there was a hay rack there it would be really difficult to get to it and fill it up. Do you think I could put a hay rack in the upper hutch though, like next to his water bottle?

I suppose another rabbit could fit in the hutch, and I think it would be great to have another rabbit, but:

. My mum thinks that Freddy will only be alive for a few more years because he is a dwarf lop. Getting another rabbit would mean a lot more years of owning rabbits and I think she is trying to gradually have less pets.

. We have just spend £200 on having our two cats tested for FIV (One of them has it :() so we are a bit short on money at the moment. I could ask her now, but I know that she will say that she has just spend a lot of money on the cats and doesn't want to be getting another pet at the moment.

. She doesn't seem to think that rabbits really need companionship. I'm not quite sure why she thinks that, as she used to have two rabbits when she was in her 20's.

. She thinks that as he has been alone for all these years that his is fine as he is. Also, I think she doesn't get why I am suddenly wanting to get all these things for Freddy. For all these years, he has been in a tiny one-level-4-foot hutch, then he moved onto the two-level hutch, now his has got a run and now I am wanting to get another rabbit.

. She thinks all the people on this forum are all a bit rabbit crazy and go over the top on everything! :lol:

. What would I do during bonding? I presume the rabbits don't connect instantly so there would have to be somewhere else to keep the new rabbit which we don't have.

. If they didn't bond then what would we do?

And also, a lot of rescues have a minimum size hutch and run they want their rabbits to live in, and I know that mine are way less than the RWAF recommended size. I suppose I could get a rabbit of a website like preloved though :?

I am at my dads this weekend but I go back to my mum's tonight so I will try to get some pictures tonight, or maybe tomorrow :D I can't wait to see if he has eaten the hay, hawthorn and leaves!

Gemmapookie
19-02-2012, 02:12 PM
That's a really good idea, I will see if I can get a sheet next weekend and attach it to Freddy's hutch. In the pictures on the previous pages his litter tray is in the run, but is is now in the lower area of the hutch because that is where it was before I got the run and he kept going to the toilet in that corner. I cannot access that area easily, to clean the litter tray I have to tilt the entire hutch up and drag it out. If there was a hay rack there it would be really difficult to get to it and fill it up. Do you think I could put a hay rack in the upper hutch though, like next to his water bottle?

I suppose another rabbit could fit in the hutch, and I think it would be great to have another rabbit, but:

. My mum thinks that Freddy will only be alive for a few more years because he is a dwarf lop. Getting another rabbit would mean a lot more years of owning rabbits and I think she is trying to gradually have less pets. A great option is to adopt a rabbit of a similar age from a rescue. It will already be neutered and vaccinated aswell.

. We have just spend £200 on having our two cats tested for FIV (One of them has it :() so we are a bit short on money at the moment. I could ask her now, but I know that she will say that she has just spend a lot of money on the cats and doesn't want to be getting another pet at the moment.

. She doesn't seem to think that rabbits really need companionship. I'm not quite sure why she thinks that, as she used to have two rabbits when she was in her 20's. Rabbits are very sociable animals, and most are much happier with a companion. This is even more important for an outdoor bun that doesnt get as much human interaction as an indoor would, and who may need help keeping warm in the winter.

. She thinks that as he has been alone for all these years that his is fine as he is. Also, I think she doesn't get why I am suddenly wanting to get all these things for Freddy. For all these years, he has been in a tiny one-level-4-foot hutch, then he moved onto the two-level hutch, now his has got a run and now I am wanting to get another rabbit. I dont know what she thinks Freddy should be doing to show that he is not fine?? Rabbits just have to make do with their lot, they dont really have any choice. He cant tell you he is lonely or bored. Its our responsibility as owners to make sure we do the very best by them.

. She thinks all the people on this forum are all a bit rabbit crazy and go over the top on everything! :lol: Cant argue with us all being rabbit crazy! :lol: But I dont think we go over the top, we're just well educated in our rabbits needs and try to fulfill them to the best of our ability.


. What would I do during bonding? I presume the rabbits don't connect instantly so there would have to be somewhere else to keep the new rabbit which we don't have. An option is to adopt a bun from a rescue who will take Freddy in and do the bonding for you :)

. If they didn't bond then what would we do? Most rescues will accept buns back if it doesnt work out for you.


And also, a lot of rescues have a minimum size hutch and run they want their rabbits to live in, and I know that mine are way less than the RWAF recommended size. I suppose I could get a rabbit of a website like preloved though :? Keep working on expanding Freddys space as much as you can

I am at my dads this weekend but I go back to my mum's tonight so I will try to get some pictures tonight, or maybe tomorrow :D I can't wait to see if he has eaten the hay, hawthorn and leaves!

Replies in red! Good luck persuading your mum, Freddys very lucky to be getting such excellent care at last :love:

vergo97
19-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the reply :)

It would be good to get a rabbit the same age as him. You've just reminded me though that Freddy isn't neutered or vaccinated, so that would need doing as well. My aunt got two male rabbits who were from the same litter and she got them neutered as was told that they would not fight. They did start fighting though and she had to get two separate hutches for them, and I think that might make my mum think that male rabbits can't be bonded even if they are neutered :?

I don' know of any rabbit rescues near me, I presume that the RSPCA doesn't offer to bond rabbits because they have so many animals to look after?

I'm not sure what to do with giving him more space, it was really hard to get my mum to get him a run (even though now she admits that his seems a lot more active and happier), so I don't think she would let me get another run for him. Our garden is tiny so another run joined onto is hutch would probably take up half the garden. Unless there is a way to build upwards? I'm not sure how that would work though :?

Gemmapookie
19-02-2012, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the reply :)

It would be good to get a rabbit the same age as him. You've just reminded me though that Freddy isn't neutered or vaccinated, so that would need doing as well. My aunt got two male rabbits who were from the same litter and she got them neutered as was told that they would not fight. They did start fighting though and she had to get two separate hutches for them, and I think that might make my mum think that male rabbits can't be bonded even if they are neutered :?

I don' know of any rabbit rescues near me, I presume that the RSPCA doesn't offer to bond rabbits because they have so many animals to look after?

I'm not sure what to do with giving him more space, it was really hard to get my mum to get him a run (even though now she admits that his seems a lot more active and happier), so I don't think she would let me get another run for him. Our garden is tiny so another run joined onto is hutch would probably take up half the garden. Unless there is a way to build upwards? I'm not sure how that would work though :?

Same sex buns are generally harder to bond even if neutered/spayed, although it absolutely can be done, there are many examples on here. The most common coupling is male/female as they are generally easier to bond aslong as both are neutered/spayed. Maybe start a thread asking for pics of same sex and different sex couples so you can show your mum, seeing lots of pictures of loved up bun couples might help persuade her ;)

What area are you? Yo could start a thread asking for rescues local to you. Sometimes the RSPCA will bond for you :)

With regards to more space is there anyway you can secure your garden so that he can have some free range time while you're out there keeping an eye on him? :wave:

vergo97
19-02-2012, 03:13 PM
I was thinking that if I was allowed to get another rabbit it would be a female because I heard that it is easier.

I'm in Newark, Notts :)

The garden is secure for him to run around in, and I let him out a few days ago. I don't know how to get him back in, if I try to gently pick him up then he runs off and I am not able to catch him because he just keeps running off every time I go near him. He never comes over to me. I end up having to quickly grab him and when I did that he flopped over like he was playing dead :( I can't just open a door that links to the hutch or run and try to steer him into it because they don't have one. The only way to access them is by the roof or by lifting them up.

vergo97
19-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Also, how would I go about starting the conversation? I've tried "can we get another rabbit for Freddy?" which results in a "No" followed by a list of reasons that we can't, number one being that "I don't want any more pets" :(

Gemmapookie
19-02-2012, 09:42 PM
I was thinking that if I was allowed to get another rabbit it would be a female because I heard that it is easier.

I'm in Newark, Notts :)

The garden is secure for him to run around in, and I let him out a few days ago. I don't know how to get him back in, if I try to gently pick him up then he runs off and I am not able to catch him because he just keeps running off every time I go near him. He never comes over to me. I end up having to quickly grab him and when I did that he flopped over like he was playing dead :( I can't just open a door that links to the hutch or run and try to steer him into it because they don't have one. The only way to access them is by the roof or by lifting them up.

Hmm. Maybe you could try tempting him into a carrier with one of his favourite treats, then close the door on him? Or gently ushering him into a corner that you can block him in so that you can then pick him up abit easier? Thats a tough one :?


Also, how would I go about starting the conversation? I've tried "can we get another rabbit for Freddy?" which results in a "No" followed by a list of reasons that we can't, number one being that "I don't want any more pets" :(

Casually show some pics off here of snuggled up rabbit couples and really play up the "awww look how happy they are together" thing ;) Here are a couple of mine to start :wave:

http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/GemPookie/113_0494.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/GemPookie/113_0258.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/GemPookie/113_0491.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/GemPookie/113_0426.jpg


And this is another reason. This was when mimi was really poorly with severe head tilt. Timmy was her saviour. I had to confine her to a cage but I let him in a few times a day and he would groom her and encourage her to eat :love:
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/GemPookie/112_9658.jpg

When you see a loved up bunny couple it shows you what real love is :love:

vergo97
19-02-2012, 11:22 PM
I think I'll try to get him into a corner, it's difficult though.

Thanks for all those pictures, they look really happy together :love: I'll show my mum in a few days.

My aunt had a baby girl yesterday evening and just found out today that the baby, Emily, died this morning :cry: I'll give it a few days/weeks before I mention getting another rabbit.

nessar
20-02-2012, 05:10 AM
Sounds like you've been getting lots of good advice, I've just seen this thread and read it through.

Very sorry to hear about your little cousin has died, I hope you and your family are okay. I agree its best to leave off on asking for new accomodation/pets whilst your family are having a tough time emotionally and financially. Look after yourselves *hugs*

Just wanted to mention though that once the weather gets warmer (drastically changing temperature like from outside to inside can be bad for rabbits) you could start bringing Freddy in to a safe room indoors when you are home to spend some time with him, even if you're just watching tv, so that way he has some company and you may be able to help him not be as lonely. You sound like you are feeling quite helpless at the moment , and this would be one way to make his life better without having to spend more money or get him a friend. A whole room to run around in will probably be a lot more space as well, I'm sure he would love it even if its just a few hours a day or week! You can also spend some time outside with him of course, maybe sitting in his run with him, it is a great way to bond with rabbits. I'd also look into getting your rabbit vaccinated when you can, as he needs to be protected from VHD and Myxomatosis whether he has a friend or not, as they are usually spread by humans or other animals like cats and as the weather gets warmer the risk increases. There is a new vaccine coming out that will cover both, I think it is out in March, but at the moment they are 2 separate ones. I dont mean to worry you but I thought I should let you know in case you didnt already.

My rabbits are indoors so its a bit different to being in a garden, but I lure them back into their pen or room if I need to with food. When I used to keep them in their pen at night I would always feed them when it was bedtime, so they knew coming in meant food and were used to the routine. I also trained one to come when I called her, for food. Perhaps you could try training him in a similar way to make him easier to put to bed? I find picking up or catching rabbits often scares them and makes them avoid you, making them harder to catch, its a bit of a tricky situation.

Take care, I hope you are okay. I think it is fantastic that you are trying to make your rabbits life better.

vergo97
20-02-2012, 07:37 PM
It's all been a bit of a shock with Emily, she wasn't premature or anything and everything seemed fine until the last minute :cry:

It would be great to bring him inside in the summer, and also he might get more time running around in the garden because we will be out there more. I'll ask my mum about vaccines, but I doubt she will say yes :roll: She'll probably say that as he has been unvaccinated for all these years, he is very unlikely to get one of the diseases.

Here are some pictures of him as requested :) (the run isn't on the patio yet, but I will try to move it onto there at the weekend)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020509.jpg

The inside of his hutch looks really dirty in this picture, I don't know how to get it really clean again though :?
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020510.jpg

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020511.jpg

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020512.jpg

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020513.jpg

Big ears!
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020514.jpg

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020515.jpg

Aly&Poppy<3
20-02-2012, 07:45 PM
What a cutie :love: maybe you could take the bed partition out and put the litter tray there instead of lifting the whole hutch up? I did that with my old hutch, just made sure there was a cover over the front :)

vergo97
20-02-2012, 07:52 PM
Thanks :D

That would be good, but I've tried to move the litter tray before and he just keeps going in that corner at the bottom of the hutch, whether there is a litter tray there or not :?

basirascal
20-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Hi Vergo97:wave:

You have a beautiful bunny and you are obviously trying to do your very best for him. In an ideal world, many of us will have chosen to have a pair of buns, but there are sometimes circumstances that prevent this. In an ideal world rabbits would never be in cages and runs or locked in at all and they would be free to run and run. However, we don't live in a perfect world and the best any of us can do, is our best.

I have a single bun too and it is very unlikely that he will be paired. So the very best I can do, is to give him as much love and attention and fuss as possible. Having Freddy as a housebun may be a possibility one day -rabbits make great indoor companions and they love being around family and integrate extremely well. It's great that you are trying to make his outdoor home reallly nice for him though and there are lots of people on here who have outdoor rabbits that can give you good advice.

Don't be hard on yourself about just having Freddy. Keep doing your very best for him, give him lots of attention, fuss and love, like you have been doing;)

I am so terribly sorry that your baby cousin has died :cry:. This must be a very difficult time for your family. I am thinking of you.

vergo97
20-02-2012, 11:23 PM
Hi! :wave:

It's good to know that there are other people in a simular situation to me. I see lots of threads on the forum with people talking about how rabbits are happiest in pairs and that they need to have loads of room and I can't manage to do all of that for Freddy.

I am really hoping my aunt is ok, she lives a few hours away from me so I haven't seen her for a while but I know that she was so looking forward to having a baby :( She's going to have a house full of baby things, her best friend is pregant and due in about a week so it's going to be really hard for her (and her husband) :(

KingKuba
21-02-2012, 05:00 AM
Junior has been alone his whole life but he gets to free-range 24-7 in the house and we give him a lot of attention.

You can tell when he wants to be alone or when he needs company. :lol:

vergo97
21-02-2012, 08:49 AM
The thing is, I don't think Freddy even likes it when I go to see him. He always runs away from me and if I sit in the run and try to stroke him is will run into the hutch and not come out :?

I can't have him as a house rabbit because of the cats :(

vergo97
21-02-2012, 07:51 PM
I went out too see him after school today. He was at the top of the hutch and I gave him one stroke and he ran down to the lower hutch where I can't get to him. :(

basirascal
21-02-2012, 09:39 PM
I went out too see him after school today. He was at the top of the hutch and I gave him one stroke and he ran down to the lower hutch where I can't get to him. :(

Keep trying vergo97;) If you have been trying to give him more attention than he is used to, he might just be a bit timid. If you persevere, he will get used to your visiting him and look forward to it. Rabbits like routine and my Twinkle hates being disrupted/interrupted from what is 'normal' for him. so I try as much as possible to keep everything as normal as possible (although sometimes it is a bit difficult).

Twinkle always likes me to stroke him first thing in the morning, before he has his breakfast. I talk to him (and sing to him as well:oops:) and then he has his breakfast. This is all part of his routine and he likes it. Hopefully Freddy will soon get used to all the nice things you are trying to do for him, so don't give up;)

vergo97
22-02-2012, 08:01 PM
When he runs away though, should I go away and come back later then? I don't know what sort of routine I could do for him. Freddy doesn't really want to see people in the morning, all he wants is food. I'll give him his pellets and carrot and then he'll just start eating and ignore me.

I just worry than he'll never become friendly like people's rabbits on here. They talk about their rabbits coming up to them for cuddles and wanting to be with them, and Freddy isn't like that. Is it only house rabbits that can be like that, because they are around people more?

Aly&Poppy<3
22-02-2012, 08:21 PM
When he runs away though, should I go away and come back later then? I don't know what sort of routine I could do for him. Freddy doesn't really want to see people in the morning, all he wants is food. I'll give him his pellets and carrot and then he'll just start eating and ignore me.

I just worry than he'll never become friendly like people's rabbits on here. They talk about their rabbits coming up to them for cuddles and wanting to be with them, and Freddy isn't like that. Is it only house rabbits that can be like that, because they are around people more?

First off, don't worry :) Every bunny is different :D Poppy will come for strokes but will go if she's had enough. Leo was alone (as in rare human contact for 5 years) but now he is with us and as soon as he knows your there he will not stop nudging for fuss but he's never had it before :) we had to let him get used to it first but now he's fine :) They are both indoor bunnies and very different :D

The outdoor duo, Donny and Lola are different too. Donny loves fuss off men rather than women :lol: apart from my mom :roll: :lol: he prefers being talked to though :) he sits and listens with his paws resting on my legs or something :) (I think he listens anyway :oops:) but he just wants food really lol, so I try and give him some strokes and fuss while he's eating :)
Lola was fiesty and run away/bite to start with but after about 3 months she is a fuss monster too and very calm :) although she is being spayed Friday so she might become even calmer :lol:

Please don't feel bad for Freddy, you are doing and have done your best for him and his life now is greatly improved :)

little-laura
22-02-2012, 08:49 PM
Same sex buns are generally harder to bond even if neutered/spayed, although it absolutely can be done, there are many examples on here. The most common coupling is male/female as they are generally easier to bond aslong as both are neutered/spayed. Maybe start a thread asking for pics of same sex and different sex couples so you can show your mum, seeing lots of pictures of loved up bun couples might help persuade her ;)

What area are you? Yo could start a thread asking for rescues local to you. Sometimes the RSPCA will bond for you :)

With regards to more space is there anyway you can secure your garden so that he can have some free range time while you're out there keeping an eye on him? :wave:

yep yuki and yuri are girls, though they kinda bonded themselves >_<

vergo97
22-02-2012, 09:18 PM
Thanks :)

Do you think it would be worth neutering Freddy if he isn't going to get a friend? I saw the thread on the Blue Cross "Neuter Grand Scheme" (I think my mum gets income support) and I was wandering if it would even be worth it. I know that £20 isn't that much compared to the normal cost, but it's still quite a lot to me as I don't get pocket money from my mum so don't often get money. He isn't aggressive and I can't see any benifits it would have (other than him being able to live with another rabbit which might not even happen) :?

Aly&Poppy<3
22-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Thanks :)

Do you think it would be worth neutering Freddy if he isn't going to get a friend? I saw the thread on the Blue Cross "Neuter Grand Scheme" (I think my mum gets income support) and I was wandering if it would even be worth it. I know that £20 isn't that much compared to the normal cost, but it's still quite a lot to me as I don't get pocket money from my mum so don't often get money. He isn't aggressive and I can't see any benifits it would have (other than him being able to live with another rabbit which might not even happen) :?

I think it's a great idea :D :thumb: It provides health benefits for him :) to live an even healthier life :D

vergo97
23-02-2012, 05:42 PM
I'll see if I am able too. How risky is the surgery? The only operation I have had done on a pet was on one of my rats, and she never recovered from the anesthetic :cry: How would I know if the vets know what they are doing?

vergo97
23-02-2012, 07:15 PM
I've decided I'm just going to stop trying to get Freddy a companion. The garden's not big enough for a bigger hutch/run, we can't afford it anyway. I only really get money on birthdays and Christmas's, and as I am fundraising for my school expedition to Romania at the moment, any other money I make is expected to go towards that. Realistically, I doubt Freddy will ever be neutered or vaccinated and my mum has decided she doesn't want any more pets. I can't pay for anything so it is her choice and she is saying no :(

Jenova
23-02-2012, 07:35 PM
Just focus on your relationship with him and even his accommodation if you can. :)
You can still have a house rabbit with cats, they can sometimes get along fine. If you have your own room he could live in there with lots of bunny proofing, it would just mean you'd have to hoover a lot.
Or just spend time with him in the garden.
A good tip is to have a few little treats like lots of little bits of carrot or some oats and get him to come to you for a cuddle then he gets a little treat. Then he has to come back for another one. ;)

vergo97
23-02-2012, 08:59 PM
I don't think the cats would get on with him, they are very interested in him and I wouldn't trust them. What is it like having a house rabbit? I don't think it would work having him in my room as he wouldn't actually have more room than he has at the moment as my room is small. There isn't really any room to have a cage for him to go into either either.

Aly&Poppy<3
23-02-2012, 09:04 PM
I don't think the cats would get on with him, they are very interested in him and I wouldn't trust them. What is it like having a house rabbit? I don't think it would work having him in my room as he wouldn't actually have more room than he has at the moment as my room is small. There isn't really any room to have a cage for him to go into either either.

In the case of our indoor bunnies, it's messy, noisy and with Poppy not eating hay, occasionally smelly :lol: If noone knew any better you would think the rooms are full of children with all the banging around :roll:

He might not need a cage if he was in your room :) He could have a box or one of those hooded cat litter trays as a bolt hole or base :)

You've done so much for Freddy already :D I bet he appreciates it :) Even if he doesn't stay long for cuddles, some rabbits are their own 'person', like my Donny prefers his hay :lol: He does like some fuss but not too much, he gets bored of his fur being messed up :lol:

vergo97
23-02-2012, 09:10 PM
:lol:

I do like the sound of having an indoor rabbit, but I wouldn't want my mum to think she has wasted all her time and effort no getting me the rabbit run :?

Aly&Poppy<3
23-02-2012, 09:35 PM
:lol:

I do like the sound of having an indoor rabbit, but I wouldn't want my mum to think she has wasted all her time and effort no getting me the rabbit run :?

You can still use it :D in the summer :D I have 3 metal runs (although they are being used now for the indoor 2 I will only need the one when they are bonded. So that leaves me 2 metal runs, and when Lola and Donny are bonded I will have a spare 6 x 4 wooden run :lol: You can never have too many runs :thumb: :lol:

vergo97
25-02-2012, 04:58 PM
I suppose we could do that... It might actually be good to have the rabbit inside, because one of our cats is a house cat (because of FIV), but has always been an outdoor cat so we want to get him a a run/pen thing to go outside in so he can get some fresh air. The only problem we have is that there is hardly and room in the garden. If Freddy is an indoor rabbit then we could use the space where is hutch is to put the cat run. I haven't asked my mum yet, I worry that she will just say no.

When we were trying to work out where to put the cat run she was saying that we might end up putting Freddy back were he was and that would mean he wouldn't have room for his run to be attached to his hutch :(

vergo97
25-02-2012, 05:05 PM
Also, do house rabbits chew everything? I know that I would have to keep all the wires out of the way, but to they chew other things, like desks and skirting boards?

Carol and Gregory
25-02-2012, 05:08 PM
Also, do house rabbits chew everything? I know that I would have to keep all the wires out of the way, but to they chew other things, like desks and skirting boards?

Yes! I'll never forget moving my sofa out to hoover underneath it and finding a big chunk of skirting board missing! Gregory once went to stay with a friend while I was on holiday and he chewed her wooden stairs! You have to make sure you have plenty of things available which they can chew!

vergo97
25-02-2012, 07:07 PM
I'm not allowed to have him as a house rabbit :( My mum said that it wouldn't be fair on him because he is used to being outside and o have a house rabbit they have to have been a house rabbit thier whole lives. She said it would stress him out too much. She also said that she doesn't agree with house rabbits and that they prefer to be outside :roll:

I have just spend two hours "tidying up my room" (i.e trying to make it as rabbit friendly as possible) and now he isn't allowed inside :evil:

Evangeline
25-02-2012, 07:10 PM
Also, do house rabbits chew everything? I know that I would have to keep all the wires out of the way, but to they chew other things, like desks and skirting boards?

I have a single house bunnyand yes he chews everything. He doesn't chew furniture except my wicker chairs. He does attempt the corners on walls as well so I've bubble wrapped them. You do have to make sure everything is hidden and hide it well as they will find things. :lol:

vergo97
25-02-2012, 09:12 PM
I have a single house bunnyand yes he chews everything. He doesn't chew furniture except my wicker chairs. He does attempt the corners on walls as well so I've bubble wrapped them. You do have to make sure everything is hidden and hide it well as they will find things. :lol:

I'm not allowed to have him inside anyway, my mum thinks he won't like it and she doesn't agree with rabbits being inside :(

Jenova
25-02-2012, 09:49 PM
I'm not allowed to have him inside anyway, my mum thinks he won't like it and she doesn't agree with rabbits being inside :(

You can still do a lot with him outside. In the summer you can make him a box maze with old cardboard boxes. And you could make toys for him to chuck around with toilet rolls and things like that. Try getting him more used to you with treats.

My mum was the same when I was younger. I had a single, male, unneutered rabbit outside. But I spent lots of time with him and he grew to love me (sometimes a bit too much because he'd hump my arm :oops:) and we did a lot together outside. :)

Evangeline
25-02-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm not allowed to have him inside anyway, my mum thinks he won't like it and she doesn't agree with rabbits being inside :(

Aww thats not a problem there are so many toys he can have outside and he will love hearing the animals :)

vergo97
25-02-2012, 11:57 PM
It's just I thought it would be a really good idea to have him as a house rabbit :( Is it even true that is a rabbit has been outside their whole lives that they will get stressed inside?

I'll give him some more toys but there isn't much room in his run so I don't want to overcrowd it.

Jenova
25-02-2012, 11:58 PM
It's just I thought it would be a really good idea to have him as a house rabbit :( Is it even true that is a rabbit has been outside their whole lives that they will get stressed inside?

I'll give him some more toys but there isn't much room in his run so I don't want to overcrowd it.

Every rabbit is different. But you can also make toys for him to play with when he's out of the hutch/run. And he only gets them when he's with you in the garden. :)

vergo97
26-02-2012, 12:54 AM
I could take the tunnel out of his run to make room for some toys and get it out in the garden when he is free ranging...

vergo97
26-02-2012, 03:11 PM
I'm at my dads today and I was telling him about the idea of Freddy becoming ah house rabbit and he also thinks it would not be fair on Freddy. He offered to have Freddy at his house while Casper (the cat who would be having the run in the garden) is still around (the garden is quite big) to prevent the possibility of Freddy having to be without his run to make room for the cat, but said that I am not to get any ideas about getting him huge runs and giving him loads of space.

nessar
26-02-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm at my dads today and I was telling him about the idea of Freddy becoming ah house rabbit and he also thinks it would not be fair on Freddy. He offered to have Freddy at his house while Casper (the cat who would be having the run in the garden) is still around (the garden is quite big) to prevent the possibility of Freddy having to be without his run to make room for the cat, but said that I am not to get any ideas about getting him huge runs and giving him loads of space.


There is nothing cruel about keeping a rabbit inside, but unfortunately many people have the perception that they 'should' be outdoors. In actual fact house rabbits are likely to live longer. It may not be 'natural', but it is just as natural as keeping a dog or cat indoors.

Maybe I'm not understanding this right, but does your mum intend to get the cat a bigger run than Freddy has? If she is, when she is showing you runs for the cat, you could ask casually and nicely why the cat needs more space when Freddy is about the same size. A lot of people think of rabbits as not needing as much space as other animals, but pointing out and questioning this automatic thinking can help people realise that rabbits need space too. Ask someone if they would keep a cat or small dog in a hutch all the time and I doubt any will say they would, its just the misconceptions people have about rabbits. Your mum putting the cat's needs above the rabbit's by removing the rabbit's run to make room for the cats is a classic example of this.

Why does the cat need more space than the rabbit, why is the cat more important? This is the key to getting someone to understand where you are coming from. Its a conversation I often have with my father about vets bills. He would take the cat to the vet if he was ill, so why shouldnt I take my rabbits? It is a question that not many people have a proper answer to, and can make them think, although it may not change their mind. Likening a rabbit to a cat or dog is not a line of thinking people are used to, or comfortable with.

Dont get into a battle with your mum or dad, as they will probably resort to 'because I said so' or 'whilst you're under my roof you follow my rules', instead work on improving their view of rabbits in general. Help them see that Freddy is intelligent and needs just as much stimulation as a cat or dog. It's not going to happen overnight, but over time you can improve his life, and you can always ask for things like bigger runs or vaccinations for birthday or christmas presents, and they will probably respect that you want such an unselfish gift.

nessar
26-02-2012, 07:30 PM
As for Freddy, dont worry that he isnt being that social with you at the moment, some rabbits just arent that human orientated. After all, some humans arent that fond of animals either. The thing is, a rabbit is a prey animal and humans are predators, so it can take some work to gain their trust. I have a rabbit called Annabelle, and when I first got her she ran away at the sight of me, I couldnt even get near her, and if I did she hated and was terrified of being touched. I've had her for around 10 months now, and although she is never going to be a cuddly rabbit, she will come when called, she is confident around me and when she's in a good mood she'll let me give her noserubs. It took a long time and a lot of work but she trusts me now. She still wont go near anyone else, you cant really 'tame' a nervy rabbit as such, but you can gain their trust, and it is so rewarding when you have.

Just start by being there with Freddy. Just sit there, reading a book or something, so he gets used to your presence. At the moment you just appear for a few minutes a day and then go again, so he doesnt really know you. You can sit in his run and talk to him as well, and when you come to visit him talk to him then too, it can be about anything, you'll be socialising with him. If he comes up to you you can let him sniff your hand or just let him explore you or even tempt him with a treat, but dont stroke him or pick him up unnessessarily if he doesnt seem to like it. When he is more confident around you, you could then start to stroke his nose, most rabbits like this. Just build up slowly, building trust and you'll build your friendship too. I'm sure in a few months he'll come to the front of the hutch and say hi when he hears you coming.

Some other things to try would be hand-feeding all his pellets and treats, as he'll soon associate you with food and bunnies are greedy things! You can also try teaching him his name, say it to him when you give him food and when he knows it a bit more call him before you give him food, he'll soon learn to come running. You could even teach him a trick, my two will periscope for treats, bunnies can pick up things quickly, as long as they can see whats in it for them! And just some basic bunny language: if he nudges you, it means 'hi', but a stronger nudge can mean 'will you give me nose rubs' and an even stronger one can mean 'move, you're in my way' :lol: you'll soon learn what he means and he'll learn that you are not a threat.

vergo97
26-02-2012, 07:58 PM
I think my mum thinks Freddy is happier outside where he "can hear the wildlife and feel the fresh air" :roll: and that it is better for him.

yep, my mum want's to get Casper a bigger run than Freddy has got. When we were looking at some I was thinking some of them would be amazing for Freddy. I think I will ask her why Casper deserves to get a bigger run, as he is only slightly bigger than Freddy and he will only be in it for a few hours whereas Freddy is in his hutch/run all day.

I don't really like having to ask for things for Freddy as I know that my mum gets annoyed with it all. For my birthday I will ask for some things for Freddy, but it's quite a while away (august).

My friend wanted to see Freddy today because she was saying how "cute and fluffy" he is so we walked to my mums house. She insisted on getting him out for a cuddle which was a challenge in itself because he kept going to the lower hutch area which is impossible to get to. Once he was out she held him for a while and when I put him back in the hutch his heart was racing and he thumped and ran off :( I probably shouldn't of agreed to going to see him because he probably isn't ready for that yet.

How long would I have to spend with him a day? He seems to be very head shy because when I touch his face he flinches away :?

I could try hand feeding him his pellets if I start feeding him in the evenings rather than the mornings. We don't have any rabbit treats, but he gets a carrot every day which I could cut up and hand feed him.

It would be great if he knew his name, I will try to teach him it! :D

snaisby
26-02-2012, 09:30 PM
I actually think getting the cat run would be great for Freddy - you could maybe link up his hutch to it, and let him have free use of the run most of the time - then when the cat is going out for a few hours you can just close off his hutch with him in it :) even if you can't attach them permanently he could be out in the larger run for several hours a day when it's not being used for Casper. As long as he isn't too freaked out by the cat's smell I would have thought that's a good compromise :) so you should persuade your mum to get the biggest cat run possible!

vergo97
26-02-2012, 10:49 PM
I'll definitely try to get Casper the biggest on possible. Would something like the run around tunnel work, because can't you close the tunnel off when you don't want it to be used?

snaisby
26-02-2012, 10:52 PM
I think so, better ask people who actually have runaround though. Or you could put the hutch and current run up against the new run and have a cat flap/home made lockable flap :)

vergo97
26-02-2012, 10:57 PM
having a cat flap is a good idea, and cheaper too!

Milo+Fizz
26-02-2012, 10:59 PM
There is nothing cruel about keeping a rabbit inside, but unfortunately many people have the perception that they 'should' be outdoors. In actual fact house rabbits are likely to live longer. It may not be 'natural', but it is just as natural as keeping a dog or cat indoors.

Maybe I'm not understanding this right, but does your mum intend to get the cat a bigger run than Freddy has? If she is, when she is showing you runs for the cat, you could ask casually and nicely why the cat needs more space when Freddy is about the same size. A lot of people think of rabbits as not needing as much space as other animals, but pointing out and questioning this automatic thinking can help people realise that rabbits need space too. Ask someone if they would keep a cat or small dog in a hutch all the time and I doubt any will say they would, its just the misconceptions people have about rabbits. Your mum putting the cat's needs above the rabbit's by removing the rabbit's run to make room for the cats is a classic example of this.

Why does the cat need more space than the rabbit, why is the cat more important? This is the key to getting someone to understand where you are coming from. Its a conversation I often have with my father about vets bills. He would take the cat to the vet if he was ill, so why shouldnt I take my rabbits? It is a question that not many people have a proper answer to, and can make them think, although it may not change their mind. Likening a rabbit to a cat or dog is not a line of thinking people are used to, or comfortable with.

Dont get into a battle with your mum or dad, as they will probably resort to 'because I said so' or 'whilst you're under my roof you follow my rules', instead work on improving their view of rabbits in general. Help them see that Freddy is intelligent and needs just as much stimulation as a cat or dog. It's not going to happen overnight, but over time you can improve his life, and you can always ask for things like bigger runs or vaccinations for birthday or christmas presents, and they will probably respect that you want such an unselfish gift.

Is this an actual fact or from your belief? :wave:

nessar
26-02-2012, 11:21 PM
Is this an actual fact or from your belief? :wave:

A mix :) My own belief but I'm sure I read it somewhere. I was using 'in actual fact' as a colloquial way hence 'likely' as well, didnt even realise I wrote it, but it wouldnt suprise me. An indoor rabbit is less likely to get myxo, flystrike or eaten/scared to death by predators, they wont die in winter of the cold, they wont escape and run away and they are also less likely to be forgotten and more likely to be cleaned out often and also neutered because of litter training.

Of course most of the owners on RU deal with all the negatives of keeping a bun outside effectively so I doubt there would be a difference with RU's buns, but the type of owners on RU arent your typical rabbit owners.

It would be interesting to see if indoor buns in general experience higher levels of stress though, I've often wondered if they do.

Milo+Fizz
26-02-2012, 11:23 PM
A mix :) My own belief but I'm sure I read it somewhere. I was using 'in actual fact' as a colloquial way hence 'likely' as well, didnt even realise I wrote it, but it wouldnt suprise me. An indoor rabbit is less likely to get myxo, flystrike or eaten/scared to death by predators, they wont die in winter of the cold, they wont escape and run away and they are also less likely to be forgotten and more likely to be cleaned out often and also neutered because of litter training.

Of course most of the owners on RU deal with all the negatives of keeping a bun outside effectively so I doubt there would be a difference with RU's buns, but the type of owners on RU arent your typical rabbit owners.

It would be interesting to see if indoor buns in general experience higher levels of stress though, I've often wondered if they do.

Sorry I wasn't nit picking, just curious if it was an actual fact. :lol: :lol:

nessar
26-02-2012, 11:41 PM
Sorry I wasn't nit picking, just curious if it was an actual fact. :lol: :lol:

Was just trying to remember where I got it from and cant, I imagine its on the internet somewhere, although I must have gotten at least some of that train of thought from 'Living with a House Rabbit' by Linda Dykes & Helen Flack which suggests a whole page on why its better for bun and also says: 'Hutch-rabbits get less attention and exercise than their lucky house rabbit counterparts, and are prone to developing skeletal problems.' and I may have just misappropriated an understanding of this: 'It is no coincidence that it is hutch rabbits who tend to 'die without warning', not house rabbits.' She doesnt exactly state it, but she seems to imply it, so maybe thats where I got it from. I'd be interested to know whether there are any actual stats on it. I think its just easier to keep a house bun properly than an outdoor bun, its more effort if they are outside :lol:

beki
27-02-2012, 01:23 PM
i think it would be a good idea for Freddie and casper to share the run, my rabbits aren't at all bothered by cats so i am sure Freddie will get used to the smell.

Don't worry about him being timid. I have one very friendly rabbit who will follow me round head butting my ankles for attention. The other rabbit, I have had him for 2 years now and he is only just coming round to being handled. If i bring him indoors and sit him on my knee is he quite friendly and will let me stroke him, he hates being picked up out of his hutch though and will thump and run off and hide. Once I have managed to get hold of him he is fine being carried as long as I have a firm grip on him. I also find if i hold him slightly pointing forwards so he can see where we are going he relaxes more. He is always more rigid when i hold him flat against my chest. It took me about a year of regular handling to get this far with him though. Sometimes though he seems to go backwards, the last couple of days he has become more awkward and looks very scared when i try and get him out of his hutch, once out though he is fine. Maybe when you hold freddie it is best to sit down with him to make him feel more secure.

vergo97
27-02-2012, 05:48 PM
I'm not even sure if we're going to get a cat run anymore. My mum if worried that Casper won't actually like it as the main reason he wants’ to be outside is to explore, so he might not like being caged. I don't want to seem spoilt for wanting my mum to get something really expensive for the cat, and she might be a bit miffed if I then say that I actually want to use it for the rabbit as well, because she thinks that Freddy has more than enough room.

We're having a bit of a problem with him getting out at the moment, he has managed to open the cat flap twice (we've got it set so that cat's can come in but not out, and he keeps changing it so that he can go out but not in :roll:) so now it covered in cello tape and hopefully he won't be able to change it.

vergo97
28-02-2012, 06:30 PM
We're looking at getting this for the cat: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190645918280

My mum's asked if they will sell it for £50, but she's willing to pay £60 for it. Do you think that it would be possible to join it onto Freddys hutch or run?

snaisby
28-02-2012, 09:13 PM
That's very small for a cat run - the run part is only about 4ft x 2.5ft, which is tiny, and only 3ft high means no space for climbing toys etc for Casper. I definitely think you could get something much bigger for that amount of money, an aviary would be ideal. It would be a good extension for Freddy but even added on to his hutch it wouldn't meet the total RSPCA size recommendations... so not brilliant for either animal really i'm afraid :(

Jenova
28-02-2012, 09:16 PM
That's very small for a cat run - the run part is only about 4ft x 2.5ft, which is tiny, and only 3ft high means no space for climbing toys etc for Casper. I definitely think you could get something much bigger for that amount of money, an aviary would be ideal. It would be a good extension for Freddy but even added on to his hutch it wouldn't meet the total RSPCA size recommendations... so not brilliant for either animal really i'm afraid :(

But better than nothing and better than it was before. :wave:

snaisby
28-02-2012, 09:18 PM
True, but I really think with a £60 budget you could get something far more roomy which would be better for everyone :)

Jenova
28-02-2012, 09:18 PM
True, but I really think with a £60 budget you could get something far more roomy which would be better for everyone :)

True. :D

snaisby
28-02-2012, 09:40 PM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Walk-Chicken-coop-rabbit-run-/330693580689?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Poultry&hash=item4cfedf9791

Not sure what the dimensions are of this, but it looks to have more floor space and there's plenty of height for cat climbing toys, plus both Casper and Freddy could use te ramp up to the house bit :) and iit's cheaper too, so maybe worth a look?

vergo97
28-02-2012, 09:52 PM
We've looked on lots of different websites and aviary's are too expensive (£100+). I know that he doesn't have enough room, and he needs to have a friend, and he needs to be neutered, and he needs to have vaccinations but my mum won't let me do any of those things :(

That chicken coop looks really good, and I'll keep an eye on it but it's for bidding on which means it might get quite expensive and we probably won't win as we're rubbish at bidding! :lol:

nessar
28-02-2012, 10:28 PM
Have you seen this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Build-Your-Own-Animal-Run-Panels-Rabbit-Guinea-Pig-Run-/130562470981?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Small_Animals&var=&hash=item641f9b9a28

A bit more effort but you could get it just the way you wanted then, and if you used screws not nails you could always change it at a later date.

vergo97
29-02-2012, 05:54 PM
I've shown my mum the two links. I don't think we'll be able to get the first one as it's for bidding and we probably won't get it and she said that for the second one she doesn't know how to make runs out of pannels and we probably don't have the right tools for it.

The man we messaged about the other run has got back to us to say that he would sell it for £60, but to get it to our house we would have to hire a van which would cost £20 so thats £80 in total :shock:

We have looked for something else that we could use but everything is either smaller or far too expensive. :?

CwningenBach
29-02-2012, 10:08 PM
Hello!

I haven't been a member of this forum for very long and in fact have only had bunnies for about 6 weeks, but I just wanted to say that I think you're doing an absolutely wonderful job for your little chap. I hope you manage to get everything you want for him but until then, keep trying and again, it's amazing to see such tenacity in doing the best for your rabbit. :)

nessar
29-02-2012, 11:18 PM
You'd just need a screwdriver and screws to put it together, a drill would be helpful but its not needed. Bear in mind you'll have to do this for most runs anyway as most are sold flat packed.

Honestly, the one you looked I wouldnt say is worth £80 as it doesnt give the cat much outside area, which is the reason you want a run.

Do you have a bit of garden that is down the side of your house next to a fence? I hope that makes sense... the bit between your house and the fence? If so you could really easily make that into an awesome cat run, you just need to put a roof on it and a gate/door to block it off from the rest of the garden. edit: found the thread I got the idea from, such a good and easy idea: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?316927-Bunnies-on-the-Move-and-their-New-Housing!-*very-long-and-lots-and-lots-of-pictures!*&highlight=side+house+shed+roof+panels

vergo97
01-03-2012, 05:59 PM
My mum just said that she is not sure that casper would even like to be in an enclosure outside, and I said well maybe we could attach it to Freddy's hutch for most of the time and then it will be useful all the time, and she said that it would not work because rabbits are teritorial :?

I think I know what you mean, and we don't really have an area like that which would be changed into an area for Casper.

vergo97
01-03-2012, 09:21 PM
*bump*

vergo97
02-03-2012, 10:14 PM
I tried to hand feed him some pellets this morning but he bit me :(

susie bun
02-03-2012, 10:42 PM
I tried to hand feed him some pellets this morning but he bit me :(

He is maybe hutch aggressive (he's not neutered, is he?). As the weather improves it will become easier for you to spend time with him. My Spenser loves being stroked, but only iwhen he is in the mood. Otherwise he runs off to a crner, or under the bed. He is an occasional biter too.

nessar
02-03-2012, 10:42 PM
I tried to hand feed him some pellets this morning but he bit me :(

He likely didnt mean to, rabbits' eyesight isnt as good as their sense of smell, he might have just been overexcited trying to get to the food. Barney often bites me but 80% of the time doesnt mean to. Unneutered rabbits are also prone to food aggression which is actually being defensive of their food, despite the name - but if he hasnt shown aggressive signs before when giving him his bowl its likely not that. He probably just missed the food in his excitment and got your hand.


How you reacted is important, how did you react?


What pellets do you feed and how did you feed them to him? Bigger pellets can help.

susie bun
02-03-2012, 10:47 PM
Just another thought about the biting - rabbits have a blind spot infront of their nose, so you have to approach them, including offering food, from an angle they can see you. And talk to them too. Apologies if you did all this.

vergo97
03-03-2012, 12:08 AM
I think it was him really wanting the food and accidentally getting me. He always acts like he is starving when I feed him, and eats all his pellets in a few minutes. I don't know how to feed him them without him getting me is he gets this excited about the food. Normally I just quickly put the food in him bowl, but this time I held it in my hand for him to eat from.

If he was hutch aggressive, would he not like me picking him up from his hutch? He lets me do that sometimes.

When he bit me, I pushed him away a bit so that I could put the food down, and then I left him. He gets pets at home pellets, I'm not sure if they are big or small compared to others.

nessar
03-03-2012, 12:25 AM
They are quite small, a bit bigger than Excel I think. You'd be better off with Supreme Science Selective pellets or the new Supreme Fibafirst food. You want something you can hold between your fingers and have him take from you, rather than have cupped in your hand, if he gets overexcited about food. I get Barney to periscope for smaller food, as he cant really spring up and accidently bite me from that position. Also, to be honest, the pets at home pellets arent that good.

Or do you know how you handfeed horses? As in fingers together and back, palm very flat? It is harder for an animal to accidently bite you or mistake your hand for food this way.

I'd maybe stick to handfeeding his greens and any treats for now, and willow/apple sticks if he gets them :)

If he bites again, or ever goes for you, hard I know, but try not to spring away, as then he will learn that he can do that to make you back off. Instead squeak loudly, as this is what rabbits would do if another rabbit really hurt them.

edit: hutch aggression and food aggression are often related, but different things, so no, a rabbit defensive of his food may not be territorial over his hutch. He would likely to defensive over other foods though.

vergo97
04-03-2012, 12:02 AM
I'll ask my mum if we can change the food he gets, but she will probably say no because it would be more expensive.

I don't think I'll try hand feeding pellets again, I'll try it with the carrot he gets though.

I don't really know whether he is food aggressive because no one ever disturbs him while he is eating. As there is no other rabbit with him, he never has to share anything or be polite with food, so it would make sense that he is possessive over it.

Vince the Bunny
04-03-2012, 10:51 PM
Hi

I have just been reading your thread and have some ideas that may help. Can you get hold of some cable ties and wire cutters? If you can buy a runaround tunnel that would be great, but we may be able to work around this. I looked at the photo you posted, can you move the hutch further to the left and lay the run next to it so it is all on the slabs in a long line? You will have a long this set up then. Next, use the wire cutters to cut a hole in the side of the hutch at the bottom and a second hole in the run so that they can be joined together via a tunnel. The runaround tunnel if you can get one can be cable tied to the hutch and the run so it is secure, this will provide access to the hutcha nd run at all times and the tunnel will mimic a natural environment. If you cannot get a runaround tunnel, I noticed you have a green tunnel in his run. You could cut an inch of the end of that and use it to cover the holes you have cut in the hutch and run to protect him form the wire edges. Cable tie it in place

Can you get hold of some some strong wire mesh, ideally part of another cage? (you could check free ads for someone giving away a hamster cage etc as you only need the wire bit) Get the wire cutters again, and cut a square/rectangle, big enough to fit the litter tray through in the bottom of the hutch. Use the hamster cage wire to make door slightly bigger than the hole you cut in the side of the hutch and cable tie one side to make t hinged. Use a secure clip or two to keep the door closed. Now you have access to the bottom of the hutch and it is joined to the run.

Can you get hold of a cargo net? Halfords sell them for a fiver. It is a thick netting with bunge hooks on. Attach it to the inside of the roof of the hutch and now you have a hayrack that will eep the hay off the floor and prevent him from chucking it down the ramp! May I suggets that you fill up his bed with hay too, as it is cold still at night and if her is not weeing in his bed, you can just keep topping it up as he will eat some of it anyway. Change the whole bed every few weeks if there are no wees and not too many poops in it.

If you can get some clear polythene sheeting (I got some of ebay for £3 meter) you can cut a peice to go around the sides and front of the bottom bit of the hutch and use drawing pins to secure it. Leave the back open for ventilation as the rain won't go in through the back if it's against the wall.

As for a run for the cat (sorry, but I don't understand why the cat needs a run!) you could get a trixie metal run or similar (google them for ideas) you can get a large one that would be suitable, and again, use a runaround tunnel to attach it to the set up. I bung a flowerpot down my tunnels when i don't want the rabbits to go down it:lol:

I hope this helps, if you need any clarification, just ask and I will try and help. Do you pass any fruit trees on your travels? There are some on the school run, and ever so often when no one is looking I snap some branches off and give them to the buns. Toilet rolls stuffed with hay are good, toilet rolls stuffed with pellets. Scattering pellets around his home will keep him busy and giving him veg peelings and your finished apple minus the pips will be enjoyed as an ocassional treat.


As for getting him to like you, if he associates you with food, he will come around.

I'll see if there are any more things I can think of.

Good luck!

batmobile
05-03-2012, 01:10 AM
He will be lonely. He will want company. Rabbits don't show pain, let alone 'human' emotions. I would rather see a pair of loved up buns in a smaller set up than a single bun in a huge space. Whilst both are the ideal, company is more important. If your bun hardly gets out either, he will be bored and lonely with the same old space day in day out. I realise it's not your fault and you are doing your best but please try and show your Mum the threads about this - and I am sure a rescue on here can help bond and extend the accomodation without it being too noticeable. You are doing a good job with your rabbit but he needs more interaction and rabbit company. How would you feel about being in a small box every day and night for the rest of your days without anyone to be near/ to sit with/ to sleep near? I can't stress enough how vital it is for buns to have a friend where ever possible. And 'possible' means where the bun allows it.

nessar
05-03-2012, 01:52 AM
By the way Vergo have you seen this?

Dont know if shes given it away yet but might be worth PMing her if you could collect it: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?332928-large-rabbit-run-giving-away-for-free.-to-collector

edit: I know you're a way away but google maps reckons the fuel is £51.99 so would be cheaper than the one you were looking at anyway.

nessar
05-03-2012, 02:16 AM
He will be lonely. He will want company. Rabbits don't show pain, let alone 'human' emotions. I would rather see a pair of loved up buns in a smaller set up than a single bun in a huge space. Whilst both are the ideal, company is more important. If your bun hardly gets out either, he will be bored and lonely with the same old space day in day out. I realise it's not your fault and you are doing your best but please try and show your Mum the threads about this - and I am sure a rescue on here can help bond and extend the accomodation without it being too noticeable. You are doing a good job with your rabbit but he needs more interaction and rabbit company. How would you feel about being in a small box every day and night for the rest of your days without anyone to be near/ to sit with/ to sleep near? I can't stress enough how vital it is for buns to have a friend where ever possible. And 'possible' means where the bun allows it.

I'm sorry but I think Vergo is justified in keeping her rabbit on his own. She cannot get him neutered or vaccinated and she does not have the space for another rabbit either - and if her mum wont pay £12 for a vaccination will she pay hundreds if her rabbits get ill? Why bring another rabbit into the equation?

It is better that Vergo concentrates her efforts and what funds she can raise from birthdays/christmas etc on making her current rabbit happier, getting him vaccinated and a bigger run, instead of adding yet more expense with another pet, particularly when her mum is struggling with the cats vet bills.

Yes, he will be lonely, and in an ideal world he would have a friend, but hopefully Vergo can find a way of bringing him indoors, or spending lots of time with him so that he isnt as lonely, in my opinion putting another rabbit into this situation is irresponsible. I think it is great that she is learning more about rabbits and working to make his life better and you shouldnt be so harsh.

I think that, in time, if Vergo works hard at it, her rabbits life will become better and perhaps her mum will realise that rabbits are just as intelligent and just as worthy of proper care as cats, and then will be the time to consider a friend. Or perhaps he will get a friend when Vergo moves out (not sure how old you are Vergo), but now is not the time.

vergo97
12-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Sorry I haven't replied :oops:

Thanks for all those tips Vince, I will see if I can do any of those things. We still haven't got round to moving the run/hutch onto the patio but we will do it soon! There are apple trees at my dad’s work so he gets some for me to give Freddy.

the cat run would allow Caper to be outside without him leaving the garden, but my mum has decided against doing that because she doesn't think Casper would like it.

I do know rabbits need company, but like nessar said no one would re home a rabbit to me because Freddy has no vaccinations and that would mean the other rabbit would not get them as well. Freddy wouldn't be able to be bonded with another rabbit anyway because he isn't neutered. I know you say it's better to be a bit cramped than lonely, but they would literally not be able to be in the same level of the hutch, and that would mean if it was raining, one of them might not even be able to have shelter. The only place they would be able to be together is the run.

That run would be fab, but there is no way my mum would drive all that way :roll:

i'm 14, so Freddy probably won't be alive by the time I leave home :(

vergo97
13-03-2012, 06:26 PM
I've just moved his hutch onto the patio, and I'll see if I can get some netting/sheets for him soon :D

Aly&Poppy<3
13-03-2012, 07:07 PM
I've just moved his hutch onto the patio, and I'll see if I can get some netting/sheets for him soon :D

Excellent :thumb: How is he? :)

vergo97
13-03-2012, 08:58 PM
Thanks:) He's getting on well, and hopefully it will be easier to keep his run clean as well.

vergo97
14-03-2012, 09:28 AM
I might be able to get some things for him today. :D

Aly&Poppy<3
14-03-2012, 10:23 AM
Thanks:) He's getting on well, and hopefully it will be easier to keep his run clean as well.

Well done you! :D you have done so much for him, you should be proud of yourself :D


I might be able to get some things for him today. :D

Woo! Im shopping today and don't thin I'll be able to stop myself buying! I'm supposed to be saving too lol! :lol:

Tracybeakerisland
14-03-2012, 10:45 AM
In the circumstances- keep doing the best you can for Freddy on the limited resources that you have available.
You clearly love him and want to do the best you can for him.

I have a solitary house bun who my vet can only describe as not sane. She hates other rabbits, people she does not know and so on. She was also an RSPCA cruelty case and badly neglected and that has left mental scars.

She does love having cardboard boxes to destroy, and whilst hand feeding her can result in nasty nips even now she loves being given a small cardboard box with a few pellets in to run off with and tear open. I use the small packing boxes that dry food comes in.
Another idea I used whilst Doodee was still biting me badly and madly was to place a few nice bits of food on the end of a wooden spoon and wait for her to come and take the food from the spoon without having to get the first aid kit for me. This made me feel safer so I was less likely to move suddenly and Doodee slowly learnt she did not have to lunge and steal all food.

Teasel likes to snugle up with a soft cuddly fish at night. Pumpkin has a small dog bed lined with a much loved fleece. Maybe Freddy would like something similar but it could be trial and error to find out what he likes.

My two share my kitchen dining room and get on well as neighbours [nose rubs, grooming, lying by each other, sharing hay] but Pumpkins poor sight and over boisterous nature when mixed with Teasels age and arthritic hips means they tend to fight if they can phsyically get at each other. It is not perfect and not what I had hoped would happen but they are healthy and happy.

bunkin
14-03-2012, 10:53 AM
Since my mrs bunny died three weeks ago I have been feeling very guilty that Mr Bunny is now alone. He was a lone rabbit for 2 years before previous owners got mrs bun and they were together four and half years BUT the previous owners had them in a very small cage and they could only move three paces each way and could not stretch up at all and mrs bun bullied mr bun terribly. We rescued them 18 months ago and they had a hutch within a secure gated paved enclosure and had the run of the outside all day long.

They did sometimes sit together outside but more often tha not ignored each other and once back in their hutch at night mrs bun was boss. Mr bun was very thin and straggly fur and I used to hand feed him extra food because Mrs bun was three times his size and ate three times as fast.

I was fully expecting him to pine away after she went as he is six and half but he has bloomed. His coat is now beautiful and shiny and he is much friendlier and now doing all the happy bunny things that he never did before like binkys and licking you and greeting you with the head shakes that they do when happy. He is eating well.

Friends and relatives that haven't seen him for months but have recently visited have commented on how much better he looks.
This is totally puzzling to me as I was not expecting this at all.
I realise that it is early days and he could suddenly go downhill.

I cannot have another rabbit for various reasons but I do agree strongly that buns should not be kept alone, quite a canundrum for me!

I think having seen the appalling conditions they had been kept in with tiny cage - no food other than muesli once a day if lucky and often kept in dark all day long because no one uncovered their hutch that even alone mr bun is happier than he was before we rescued them.

vergo97
18-03-2012, 04:40 PM
I got some string and made a hay net for him, I put the nicer hay in it and the cheaper hay is in his bed and litter tray :)

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020551.jpg

There isn't really room to have dog beds or cuddly toys in Freddys hutch, but he does have a blanket :)

It's great that you rescued Mr Bun, and if he prefers being alone then you can't really do anything about it and it's probably best for him :) Do you think that because he was alone in his early life, that is the reason he prefers being on his own?

Another thin that I would like to solve is the flooring in his hutch. I know that I need to fix it, but I'm not sure how to, or what to use.

he has broken through the plastic:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020554.jpg

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020555.jpg

So we put this stuff over it:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020553.jpg

Here is what it looks like with bedding over it:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020552.jpg

Aly&Poppy<3
18-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Looks great :thumb: just keep an eye on it in case he decides the string looks yummy too lol!

vergo97
19-03-2012, 06:23 PM
yep, I will! :)

vergo97
20-03-2012, 06:17 PM
*bump*

Damo
20-03-2012, 09:18 PM
From reading this thread im just curious if we are being "Cruel" to patches

He is currently in the living room *Which i tihnk he will always will be*..

Are we cruel having him a loner bunny? He gets alot of attention fm brom me, Hears us constantly and even sits there and watches tele *well he looks like he does, he likes CSI and Criminal minds lol*

BUT if we got him some company we would have to move them both into the spare room, where he/they would only see us if we actually went into the bedroom.

I personally think he finds it comforting knowing we are sitting there next to his cage.. Or i may be wrong :(

nessar
21-03-2012, 03:56 PM
From reading this thread im just curious if we are being "Cruel" to patches

He is currently in the living room *Which i tihnk he will always will be*..

Are we cruel having him a loner bunny? He gets alot of attention fm brom me, Hears us constantly and even sits there and watches tele *well he looks like he does, he likes CSI and Criminal minds lol*

BUT if we got him some company we would have to move them both into the spare room, where he/they would only see us if we actually went into the bedroom.

I personally think he finds it comforting knowing we are sitting there next to his cage.. Or i may be wrong :(


Well the general advice is that if a rabbit has to be single, they are best off indoors where they can get lots of human interaction at all times of the day, preferably with someone at home a lot. Outdoor rabbits generally get less socialisation from their owners, as the owner has to actually set aside time, they cant be with them when doing chores, watching tv or cooking for instance, so its a lot harder for the owner to find the time. So it is good he is indoors in a part of the house you are often in.

There are those that would disagree, but I wouldnt say you are being cruel by keeping him alone, but it is certainly preferable to have a friend for a rabbit whenever possible. The RWAF advises that single rabbits do experience higher levels of stress, due to their instinct to live in groups. A prey animal like a rabbit is much safer when living in large groups, you see. My pair are having problems at the moment so are separated when I'm not around whilst I figure out the problem, they are living next to each other but I still have noticed that since they arent together all the time that one seems a lot more nervous whilst the other is very clingy with me to the point of obsession. It can affect each rabbit differently. (I dont mean to put you off by the way, the problems mine are having are very unusual in a bonded pair of neutered rabbits, I am sure there is an underlying cause or health problem, I just havent found it yet.)

Why couldnt you have both in the living room? A pair of bunnies and a single bunny require the same amount of space (44sqft). You could also have the spare room as their base and open the door when you are in so they have access to the rest of the house when you are in, or even have them free-ranging the house all day if you can bunny proof it all.

As a summary, as long as he is getting lots of human attention and has a good amount of space with plenty of free-range time, and lots of enrichment activities to keep him occupied, then he will have a good life, but of course having a friend would make that complete, so if you can afford another then I would advise it. But we can only do all we can for our pets, and if you have a situation like Vergo does, then you just have to make the best of that situation, and I think she/he is doing a brilliant job.

When I was deciding whether to get Barney a friend I made this thread asking for opinions on the topic, as you can see there are a range of views: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?278515-What-is-your-opinion-on-single-house-buns (be aware that due to problems with the forum a lot of old threads got jumbled/posts went missing recently so it may not be complete, although at a glance it seems okay.

vergo97
25-03-2012, 10:31 PM
My mum thinks that Freddy might have to me moved to somewhere else in the garden because where he is at the moment is in direct sunlight. She said today he was flopping over and rolling in his run because he was so hot and that he might need to be somewhere cooler. Is there anything I can do to make it cooler for him other than moving the hutch, because I don't think there is anywhere else in the garden that his hutch can fit with the run attached to it

Jenova
25-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Flopping and rolling sounds like he was enjoying the sun. At this time of year it shouldn't be too hot, but you might need to move it in the summer. You can always half fill a plastic bottle with water and freeze it. Then if he's too hot he can lie next to that to cool down.

Lots of buns love to roll in the sun. :)

Grattbaby
25-03-2012, 10:44 PM
Can I ask where I stand on this?
My rabbit meg we got as a single bun.
After a year she seemed lonely so we got her a companion. She hates all of our rabbits.
We've got 2 girls n a boy. We only got all of them to b megs friend n se hates them so much she attacked one n cut her :(
We now hav 3 that live together n meg still lives on her own!!!
I mean how do I go from there? Does that mean she wants company or not? She lives indoors xxx

nessar
26-03-2012, 01:48 AM
Can I ask where I stand on this?
My rabbit meg we got as a single bun.
After a year she seemed lonely so we got her a companion. She hates all of our rabbits.
We've got 2 girls n a boy. We only got all of them to b megs friend n se hates them so much she attacked one n cut her :(
We now hav 3 that live together n meg still lives on her own!!!
I mean how do I go from there? Does that mean she wants company or not? She lives indoors xxx


You would be better off starting a new thread in bonding to get more views and replies. If you include such information as whether she is spayed, when she was spayed, when the others were spayed/neutered and what bonding techniques you have tried and when and whether each one was on 100% neutral territory or not, that would be a good start :) It may be that she is one of the rare few that have trouble bonding, or it may be that you have unintentionally made a mistake which has lead to her defending her territory, unfortunately noone could say without the exact details of each bonding.

nessar
26-03-2012, 01:53 AM
Vergo, if you place that piece of wood you have in the first pic on the thread over the end of the run attached to the hutch he should have a nice shady spot under it. I agree with Jenova it sounds like he's sunbathing :) as long as he can get out of the heat and on hot days has a frozen bottle or two to lie against he should be fine. In really scorching weather, some people drape a wet towel over the run so any breeze creates a nice coolness underneath, but its not hot enough for that yet.

vergo97
06-04-2012, 12:55 PM
I don't think he is going to be moved, I told my mum about the things you can do to cool rabbits down so we'll do them when it gets hot.

The hutch lid is leaking a bit so we're going to get a plastic sheet to put over it soon.

vergo97
08-04-2012, 05:05 PM
Ok, well my mum did decide to move him because she said that he would get too hot where he was so now he is somewhere shady :roll:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/P1020750.jpg

Jenova
08-04-2012, 05:12 PM
That's a great place, it looks sheltered too. :)

nessar
08-04-2012, 05:18 PM
I agree with Jenova :) he'll be safe from predators there too so you know he'll be safe having 24 hour access to the run.

By the way, I know you are trying to provide toys for him, but as the space you have is limited, you may want to remove that box thing some days, maybe alternate it with removing the tunnel, so he has more space to run in.

vergo97
08-04-2012, 05:23 PM
yep, we were thinking about taking out the box in the run to give him more space. I thought he would use it for shelter but he doesn't seem to use it much :)

nessar
08-04-2012, 05:29 PM
yep, we were thinking about taking out the box in the run to give him more space. I thought he would use it for shelter but he doesn't seem to use it much :)

Ahh well if he doesnt use it you might as well :) he'll have lots of hay to snuggle up in in his bed bit of the hutch anyway, if he needs some warmth/shelter :)

By the way have you got the plastic sheet yet? As if you cant find tarpaulin or similar some people on here have made hutch covers out of cheap shower curtains!

vergo97
08-04-2012, 05:33 PM
I've just taken it out :)

My mum said that there is a plastic sheet in the garage so I'll look for that tomorrow and see if I can use it.

vergo97
13-04-2012, 11:03 AM
He's got the sheet over the hutch and no water got in when it rained the other day :)

I've just been wandering, is it ok not to spend much time outside with him if he doesn't seem bothered? He will always be somewhere that I can't reach him, and if I stroke him he runs away. :?

nessar
13-04-2012, 11:35 AM
Unfortunately human companionship isnt really a substitute to having a friend of his own kind, which is what you are seeing here, it doesnt mean he isnt lonely. You have to convince him youre a worthy friend. I'd spend as much time out there as possible, just chatting to him and feed him veg etc by hand each time you go. It doesnt matter what you say, just so he knows you are there and gets used to you. The more you are about the more he will trust you.

To be honest, it sounds like he is nervous of you. It might be because he doesnt get to see you that much, or that you keep trying to stroke him, or that he remembers something you did that he didnt like (nail clipping, picking him up, trancing him etc) and he is probably just naturally nervous as well.

I have a nervous bunny too, Annabelle, she hasnt been mistreated at all in her life, she was born in a great rescue and then came here, so she hasnt a reason to be nervous, its just her personality. If I have to take her to the vets, or pick her up for something, or brush her, she wont go near me for a day or so and even after that I have to win back her trust (usually with food!). When anyone but me walks in the room, she runs and hides. She used to be exactly the same with me, wouldnt go near me, but what I did was respect her wishes - she doesnt like being touched or handled, so I dont. If I need to take her somewhere I try to tempt her in the carrier first, the vet clips her nails so she doesnt associate me with it, and for bum checks I trained her to periscope for treats instead of picking her up. I also didnt touch her. I found handfeeding helped a lot too. A year on, and she has grown to trust me, she'll come up to me sometimes and bonk me with her nose, she wont run away from me unless I make a sudden movement or noise, and she'll even occasionally put her head down and then accept noserubs. It took a year, mind, and there were many setbacks, and bear in mind she is in my bedroom so she is around me at least 12 hours a day, but what I'm trying to say is, if you do things on his terms he may come round eventually, and enjoy your company more and interact with you. You have to bear in mind he has been alone for a long time, and hasnt had that much interaction from humans either.

I've also done exactly the same thing as with Annabelle, with a rexy bun who, when I first saw her, would cower at the back of the hutch shaking, eyes bulging, if anyone came near her. I spent a month sitting in her run for several hours a day, talking to her whenever I was near, not making any sudden movements or loud noises, handfeeding her everything I could, letting her come to me, not touching her unless she wanted me to etc etc. At the end of that month she would let me give her noserubs sometimes, and would come to the front of the hutch for noms when I went to see her. The first time she ran over to me and bonked me with her nose (this means hello for rabbits) I welled up, I was so happy. It really is very rewarding when they learn to trust you.

Basically, make every single interaction that you have with him a pleasant experience.

missFloppyears
13-04-2012, 12:02 PM
the only time any bun should be single is if A. constant human companion ship, B. is yet to be nuetered or is of ill health.

nessar
13-04-2012, 02:30 PM
the only time any bun should be single is if A. constant human companion ship, B. is yet to be nuetered or is of ill health.

Or C. If you are too young to get a job, and your parents refuse to pay for neutering/vet care/another rabbit.


Vergo has been trying, but her parents see her rabbit as 'just a rabbit' and so wont buy him better accomodation, get him neutered or vaccinated. There's not a lot she can do, other than wait for Christmas/Birthday time and ask for these things as presents, or wait till she is old enough to have a part-time job alongside school/college.

missFloppyears
13-04-2012, 03:35 PM
Or C. If you are too young to get a job, and your parents refuse to pay for neutering/vet care/another rabbit.


Vergo has been trying, but her parents see her rabbit as 'just a rabbit' and so wont buy him better accomodation, get him neutered or vaccinated. There's not a lot she can do, other than wait for Christmas/Birthday time and ask for these things as presents, or wait till she is old enough to have a part-time job alongside school/college.

ahh yes secret option C, all too common these days unfortunately..

where abouts are you Vergo?
maybe members around the area can help?


Is their any possibility of bringing the bun in to stay in your bedroom if you keep it tidy?
their is lots of people with indoor buns who can help you??

vergo97
13-04-2012, 03:58 PM
I'm in Newark, in Nottinghamshire. :wave:

I've asked my mum about having him inside in my room, but she thinks it would be cruel as he is used to being outside and he will hate it inside. She'll also say that we have got the run for him, so I should be grateful for the space he has. :roll:

Would it be ok to bring him in occasionally? I brought him today for about 15 mins to be on the sofa with me, but I didn't want to stress him out too much. I'll try and spend more time with him outside as well.

missFloppyears
13-04-2012, 04:12 PM
could you show her links of indoor bunny housing etc?
try printing off information and posters and leave them on sides etc ;)
its always worked with my BF so it may work with your parents.

You could attempt to sit them down and explain that you want to prove to them you can be a responsable owner and can they support you and be proud of you?


ideally outdoor bunnies can come in briefly but make sure its in an unheated room so he doesnt get to hot?

also to keep things easy for you as you havent got the funds for toys etc, try getting cardboard boxes and make toys for him?


I cannot say just how fabulous the Admin of the forum is (Tamsin)
You can have a good dig round her blog their is lots of toys you can make out of household items?
http://www.therabbithouse.com/blog/2010/12/03/toilet-roll-rabbit-toys-part-1/

nessar
13-04-2012, 04:36 PM
When the temperature difference between outside and inside is small, so in the summer, or if your conservatory is unheated in the winter, then you can bring him in. But when the temperature difference is a lot, i.e this time of year at night, or any time in the winter, it can stress their systems to be brought suddenly in or out of a heated room. At the moment I'd say it was fine to do whilst the sun is up, its only after dark that its getting chilly (or at least here thats what its like).

I think Floppyears' idea of introducing the idea slowly (and partly subconciously) to your parents by looking up housing etc is great. Also, if you start bringing him in to your bedroom, you can do all the bunny-proofing etc now so that the room is safe from him to free-range in there (one major reason I imagine she'd object is him damaging things). Seeing you do this, and being responsible, should plant the seed of the idea in her mind, so to speak. Bringing him in more will allow you (and your mum) to see whether he is happy inside as well.

First things first, give your bedroom a good tidy tonight and hide/remove any wires or anything else he might damage. Then I'd start bringing him in for a few hours a night whenever you can, you'll need a bowl of water and a litter tray with hay in it for this, you can always take the one thats in his hutch if you dont have spares. This way you'll also get to spend more time with him, but be able to do things at the same time, like homework, watching tv, reading etc.

I imagine he'd have more space indoors, how big is your bedroom Vergo? Do you know the rough measurments? If no, roughly how many single beds (or double if you have double) could you fit in the floor space if you fitted them in like tetris, and I'll work it out when I get home. I mean actual floor space, not the bits the furniture takes up.

vergo97
13-04-2012, 05:39 PM
It's not that she doesn't agree with house rabbit's in general, it's just that he has been outside for 7 years so she feels that he will get stressed from being taken out of his normal environment, and that now he has been outside for so long he will prefer it there. My bedroom isn't that big either; I think there is about 1 1/2 single beds amount of room:

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/vergo97/DSCF4063.jpg
(it's a bit messy at the moment! :oops:)
I'll make some cardboard toys for him, now it's getting warmer it shouldn't rain so much so the cardboard will last longer.
Thanks for the link, I'll have a look at that website :)

vergo97
14-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Do you think my room would be big enough for him? :)

vergo97
14-04-2012, 11:49 AM
And would he spay everywhere as he isn't neutered?

happysaz133
14-04-2012, 12:58 PM
That actually looks a decent sized room :thumb: plenty space for him.

Does he spray in his hutch? You can tell if he is by white marks on the walls in his hutch. He might do it inside, he might not. You can only really find out by letting him in :wave:

vergo97
14-04-2012, 01:09 PM
That's good :)

There are white marks in the hutch, so he'd probably do that in the house then? Doesn't neutering stop them from spraying, but would it be safe to neuter him, considering he is 7/8 years old? :?

happysaz133
14-04-2012, 01:24 PM
That's good :)

There are white marks in the hutch, so he'd probably do that in the house then? Doesn't neutering stop them from spraying, but would it be safe to neuter him, considering he is 7/8 years old? :?

He might not do it in the house, but its quite likely he would.

Neutering stopped my bunnies from spraying, it was instant, they've never done it since being neutered. :wave: Neutering at his age is slightly more risky, but there are still lots of buns neutered at that age that do just fine. :D

vergo97
14-04-2012, 02:32 PM
right, ok. Do you know how much neutering costs?

I haven't actually mentioned him being in the house again yet to my mum, when I asked her before she started getting a bit annoyed that I wasn't understanding that he is happiest outside, and I don't know how to ask her again without her straight away saying no. And she probably won't want to pay to have him neutered as she thinks that he is only going to live another year or so.

vergo97
14-04-2012, 02:36 PM
I had him in my room for about an hour today, and at one point he flopped over. Does that mean he was relaxed? :)

missFloppyears
14-04-2012, 02:42 PM
I had him in my room for about an hour today, and at one point he flopped over. Does that mean he was relaxed? :)

certainly does :D

as for Nueter costs it depends on the vet around average i think its £40 for a rabbit nueter, although if you talk to your mum she may help you find some help with the RSPCA nuetering scheme, i dont know if your parents are on benefits or anything but this could help if they are
xxxxx

vergo97
14-04-2012, 03:08 PM
That's good :D

Whats the neutering scheme? I can't find anything on the RSPCA website.

Jenova
14-04-2012, 03:27 PM
I would be tempted not to neuter him at that age. But that's just my personal opinion.

vergo97
14-04-2012, 03:34 PM
My mum probably wouldn't want him to be anyway. If he comes in for a few hours, would he not spray?

Jenova
14-04-2012, 03:43 PM
My mum probably wouldn't want him to be anyway. If he comes in for a few hours, would he not spray?

Watch him and see. White vinegar is great at getting rabbit pee off carpets and walls anyway so if he does no one would ever know. You could buy some to clean the hutch with and get the white stains off that and then you'd have a reason to have it in the house. ;)

I would just keep an eye on ebay every few days and see if you can find a really cheap hutch in your area that's bigger. My friend bought a three foot hutch for her rabbit when she got her without knowing they needed more space. The first hutch I got was a four foot double. When I got a new hutch I gave it to her and her and her uncle attached the two hutches together and made a hole from one to the other, so now her rabbits have a seven foot hutch with a four foot upstairs. Especially when you live at home it's hard to do exactly what you want even if you know it's for the best. But you just have to figure ways around it. Maybe you could even find a really cheap playhouse in the same town as you and then you and your mum could paint it up, put mesh in and attach the run, like a project. It would look lovely in the garden with a couple of flowerpots by the door. I think you just have to be in the right place at the right time to get a bargain like that. I've seen some go for a few pounds because they're pick up only.

nessar
14-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Barney was a house rabbit before he was neutered :wave: he never sprayed. It took a while for him to be completely litter trained, I had 6 trays at first! But I gradually got it down to 2 with only the odd accident anywhere else. To discourage him, I'd get him a litter tray for indoors or bring his one in with him everytime you bring him in, so he learns that he has to use a tray indoors too. Any accidents, clean straight away with white vinegar or he'll smell it there and it'll become a habit to wee there.

To be honest, at his age, because he wont be getting a friend out of it, I'd only get him neutered if he is definately going to be a house rabbit.

At this stage, if you ask your mum, just say you want to bring him indoors for a little while so you can spend time with him because he's lonely and its uncomfortable/cold for you to sit outside, and that he seems to like being indoors.

Vergo - if you promise to take what it says with a pinch of salt (because it does advise some things wrongly, like keeping a rabbit in a small dog crate is okay :roll: ) then I can send you this book if you like? I dont need it anymore. It has lots of pictures of rabbits being very happy inside ;) Free of charge of course, although I'm really busy at the moment so might not get to the post office for a week or so. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-House-Rabbit-Linda-Dykes/dp/1860542077/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334429298&sr=8-1

vergo97
14-04-2012, 10:48 PM
I'll see if I can get hold of some white vinegar :)

I've looked on second hand websites and there is nothing on there at the moment that is cheap enough, but I'll keep checking.

I think there is a small spare litter tray in the garage so I'll look for it tomorrow and put it in my room for when Freddy is in there, and I'll start bringing him in more.

I've pm'd you nessar :)

missFloppyears
15-04-2012, 08:00 AM
I'll see if I can get hold of some white vinegar :)

I've looked on second hand websites and there is nothing on there at the moment that is cheap enough, but I'll keep checking.

I think there is a small spare litter tray in the garage so I'll look for it tomorrow and put it in my room for when Freddy is in there, and I'll start bringing him in more.

I've pm'd you nessar :)

Their is a site called freecycle that people getting rid of things they no longer want give away free..
try checking their i have had a few hutches and runs from it?:thumb::thumb:

vergo97
15-04-2012, 10:58 AM
I've just had a look now, and seen this:
http://groups.freecycle.org/mansfield_freecycle/posts/19216003/Rabbit%20Hutch

and this: http://groups.freecycle.org/FreecycleNottingham/posts/19213087/Large%20Rabbit%20home%20%2F%20cage

Not sure how big they are though, might be the same size as I've got now.

Jenova
15-04-2012, 11:26 AM
I've just had a look now, and seen this:
http://groups.freecycle.org/mansfield_freecycle/posts/19216003/Rabbit%20Hutch

and this: http://groups.freecycle.org/FreecycleNottingham/posts/19213087/Large%20Rabbit%20home%20%2F%20cage

Not sure how big they are though, might be the same size as I've got now.

That's the thing with freecycle and rabbit hutches. People really just don't know that rabbits need a lot of space so think the size of the hutch doesn't matter and don't often write it. Would it be worth becoming a member so you can message them and ask them to measure it for you? Or if anyone in your family is good with diy you could join two small hutches together. :D

missFloppyears
15-04-2012, 11:38 AM
you could always join them together to make a bigger one?

Chopster
15-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Don't want to put a damper on things, but items on Freegle usually go very very fast! Those have prob gone, but it might be worth joining the group and putting out a request or keeping an eye out for one.


I ended up joining two together. My three Were rehomed rabbits and came with a 4x2 two story, I bought a second hutch, decided that wasn't big enough neither and joined them up! It was quite easy, just pushed them together, cut the mesh, made a doorway out of some old 2x2 wooden batons from washing machine packaging to bridge the gap and screwed it all together.

vergo97
15-04-2012, 03:11 PM
Do you have a picture of the hutches joined together? :) I'm not sure if there would be enough room in the area his hutch is in for two hutches.

Jenova
15-04-2012, 03:24 PM
Do you have a picture of the hutches joined together? :) I'm not sure if there would be enough room in the area his hutch is in for two hutches.

I've asked my friend to take a picture for you. I'll post it when she has. :)

vergo97
15-04-2012, 03:44 PM
Thank you :D