Repeated uneaten caecals, what next?

My 3 year old boy, Sweep, has been suffering recently with his tummy. Up until about 9 months ago he had never had any issues at all and upon finding this forum we realised we were feeding a few too many pellets (they were getting most of a bowlful between 2 of Excel). We slowly reduced the amount of pellets we gave them both and started introducing different types of hays (timothy, different meadow hays) instead of just farm meadow hay.

A few months after this we noticed a few uneaten caecals where Sweep always sits, cleared them up and kept an eye. Since then there have been repeated uneaten caecals, only a few occasionally (every couple of weeks we will notice a new one/two). In November he started having a really bad episode where we would find a pile on a daily basis so we stripped him back to a hay only diet for 4 weeks with no change, so followed up with a vet appointment where the vet checked his teeth and weight with no problems there. Given some Fibreplex to try clear it up which it did wonderfully within 3 days. We decided (after advice on here) to switch from Excel to SS of which we introduced slowly at the end of December and now he is on 10 pellets a day amongst herbs and unlimited hays. This was the time we lost Misty (unknown cause) but that didn't seem to affect him hugely. His tummy was fine up until a few days ago where I noticed a couple of squished caecals in the run (only 2 or 3 tiny ones). Cleared up and since there has been one more tiny squished caecal.

I know it's not as bad as it was before Xmas, but really disheartening as I thought changing his pellets to SS had done the trick and it was partly the Excel to blame. This is what he gets on a daily basis:

Unlimited meadow hay (from a local farm and very nice quality)
Handful of timothy hay daily
Hay cookie every couple of days
Small handful of herbs
10 SS pellets
He is let to free range (supervised) while we tidy and sort out hays etc every day for about 15 mins to half an hour (and longer at weekends) - in which time he eats some grass from the lawn (which is completely untreated)

When he was better he did get an occasional treat (he got some from me and his secret santa for xmas) he would have one every other day or so but this has stopped now

Am I being too worried about a couple of uneaten caecals or do you think I should yet again strip him back to basics? Could the herbs be affecting him (Excel Country garden herbs)?

I have ordered some Protexin Pro Fibre pellets and Parsnipbun has kindly sent some bramble leaves too - not sure whether to try both these things on him or keep him to what he is used to for the minute.

It's frustrating for me too as he would never have issues like these while he was on a 'unhealthy diet' (used to get unlimited hay but too many Excel pellets and probably too much veg too and no herbs) I know he is on a good diet now and I won't change that but it has confused me as to why a better diet has allowed him to have uneaten caecals.

Sorry, I am probably rambling now but I really just wanted a bit of advice on where to go now re feeding him (and also the Pro Fibre pellets and bramble leaves) and whether a further vet checkup is needed.

He is due to go to The Rabbit Crossing (subject to homecheck) to be bonded by Helen (The Duchess) a week today and I really would rather he is not producing any uneaten caecs by then......I know he will be in good hands but I want him to be in tip top condition to meet his new lady friend

One of my buns does this sometimes. At first I was worried and fiddled around with his diet, which is exactly as it should be, took him to the rabbit savvy vet and nothing was really helpful. So now I just expect the odd missed one and try not to worry because his life and diet can't really be practically improved on.

My personal opinion is as long as they aren't stuck in his fur, over runny or excessive and that he is happy in himself, that there is nothing to worry about.

I would try the Protexin and Brambles. I have used Protexin a lot in the past and I find it great.

Good luck x

Kermit said:

I would try the Protexin and Brambles. I have used Protexin a lot in the past and I find it great.

Good luck x

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Does anyone know what actually causes this? Its just three other buns are on exactly the same diet but only one of mine gets this:?

Could be a gut instability, sensitive stomach, every bun is different - my Ginger lives on protexin pellets, as she has a MASS of excess caecals if she doesn't.

This is really interesting. I have a trio where they are all fed the exact same diet, which is 2 egg cups of Bunny Basic T pellets between 3 of them, lots of timothy hay and then a small bowl of veg again between 3.

One bunny always has excess caecals, so much so that for this trio, part of my cleaning out kit is a paint scraper to clean it up from their concrete run.

Interestingly, it often clears up for a few months in spring, but as soon as there is a burst of hot weather it comes back for the rest of the year. A while ago I did gradually cut down to a hay only diet but there was no change - admittedly I only did this for about a month and I know that it can take a long time for gut flora to re-balance.

I'm very interested to hear about the protexin though. I've just had a quick look on the web (very quick) but couldn't see any specific quantities to be given, so question is, how many to give etc?

I'd run it past my vet first (she has checked Jessica re her excess caecals but couldn't find anything wrong) as I wonder whether it would also help my excess stasis bunny Jemima and as that's then 2 out of the 3, whether having the pellets might be a problem for the remaining bun Dillon who doesn't have a problem so far with either caecals or stasis (touch wood).

CazScho said:

This is really interesting. I have a trio where they are all fed the exact same diet, which is 2 egg cups of Bunny Basic T pellets between 3 of them, lots of timothy hay and then a small bowl of veg again between 3.

One bunny always has excess caecals, so much so that for this trio, part of my cleaning out kit is a paint scraper to clean it up from their concrete run.

Interestingly, it often clears up for a few months in spring, but as soon as there is a burst of hot weather it comes back for the rest of the year. A while ago I did gradually cut down to a hay only diet but there was no change - admittedly I only did this for about a month and I know that it can take a long time for gut flora to re-balance.

I'm very interested to hear about the protexin though. I've just had a quick look on the web (very quick) but couldn't see any specific quantities to be given, so question is, how many to give etc?

I'd run it past my vet first (she has checked Jessica re her excess caecals but couldn't find anything wrong) as I wonder whether it would also help my excess stasis bunny Jemima and as that's then 2 out of the 3, whether having the pellets might be a problem for the remaining bun Dillon who doesn't have a problem so far with either caecals or stasis (touch wood).

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My delivery has just come, and on the back of the tub it says to be sprinkled over normal food so I will still give Sweep his 10 SS pellets every day but I think I will start supplementing it with a measure of the Pro Fibre pellets and see how we go.

I can understand that some buns have a more sensitive tummy than others, but to have a very strong tummy for 2 years and then suddenly to become sensitive is a puzzle to me.....:?

Yes what causes this is the individuality of the bunny and their early start in life, immunity through adequate weaning, breeding, genetics, temperament etc. Every rabbit is different as Graham L says.

Just like us humans, some rabbits have apparently cast-iron stomachs, and some are highly sensitive to the slightest alteration in gut flora.

If your rabbit is producing excess caecotrophs or malformed caecotrophs over a long period of time, the condition is chronic, then your first port of call should always be your vet to check for any ill health as it can be a sign of certain conditions. If all is clear healthwise then I would first read this article and familiarise yourself with the bunny gut:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=3012

Very good luck with the bonding x

catherine09 said:

My delivery has just come, and on the back of the tub it says to be sprinkled over normal food so I will still give Sweep his 10 SS pellets every day but I think I will start supplementing it with a measure of the Pro Fibre pellets and see how we go.

I can understand that some buns have a more sensitive tummy than others, but to have a very strong tummy for 2 years and then suddenly to become sensitive is a puzzle to me.....:?

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and this can indicate illness or pain somewhere.

catherine09 said:

My delivery has just come, and on the back of the tub it says to be sprinkled over normal food so I will still give Sweep his 10 SS pellets every day but I think I will start supplementing it with a measure of the Pro Fibre pellets and see how we go.

I can understand that some buns have a more sensitive tummy than others, but to have a very strong tummy for 2 years and then suddenly to become sensitive is a puzzle to me.....:?

Click to expand...

Could indicate illness or pain, rabbits are funny little things.