Panacur and EC

Does it actually cure EC?

My vet said he couldnt find his rabbit textbook but he reckoned it didnt have the right active ingredient, and the only thing to actually cure it was something else (cant remember what he called it) which he would probably have to ship from America?

But on here panacur is always reccommended for EC... Does panacur not actually cure it but control it or something?

nessar said:

Does it actually cure EC?
My vet said he couldnt find his rabbit textbook but he reckoned it didnt have the right active ingredient, and the only thing to actually cure it was something else (cant remember what he called it) which he would probably have to ship from America?

But on here panacur is always reccommended for EC... Does panacur not actually cure it but control it or something?

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As far as I am aware from all the research I have done on EC as yuki was diagnosed with it. The is no cure just things to tackle the symtoms. There are lots of uncertainties and the UK and US differer greatly in how they tackle ec.

heres some info http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/treatment.shtml

this too

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

My understanding of it is that the panacur gets rid of the parasite and the spores that caused EC. It cannot reverse the damage done in the brain etc by the parasite. Metacam should be given as soon as possible though as the metacam (or its equivalent) brings down the inflamation in the brain caused by the parasite and it is this inflamation or lesions that cause head tilt, leg weakness etc. It is also very helpful for pain relief too obviously.

Panacur can also be given as a preventative - it is a wormer as we know and it also gets rid of the EC parasite before it causes damage if given at the right time. The question is of course, when is the right time as just like worms, you can worm your rabbit every 6 months but a day after the treatment they could pick up worms. The way I see it, we panacur our buns once every 6 - 8 months. Spores can live outside the body for up to 28 days so we bleach as much as possible every 28 days and then with the panacur this cuts down on the chances of the buns getting it.

Our girl bun Buttercup made a full recovery from a bad case of EC but it took time and effort especially for her but she fought all the way. She's watching me type now - looking more beautiful than ever!

In my experience Panacur/Lapizole does nothing to an active EC.
I have had 2 buns with it now, one at the bridge and one is still alive and after the course finished and 2 further blood tests they both still had very high levels of the antibody. My rabbit savvy vet (actually both rabbit savvy vets) have said they never bother with it as have never had a good result from it. Their advice from both of them was "you can use it if you want as it won't do any harm but I have never had a case where they rabbit got any better from it's use".

No, Panacur (active ingredient Fenbendazole) cannot 'cure' EC as such. EC (Encephalitozoon Cuniculi) is a protozoal parasite. The parasite is excreted via the kidneys/urine BEFORE any clinical symptoms develop but it leaves behind spores. These spores may also be excreted and do no damage,but a blood tet will show that the Rabbit has been exposed to the parasite at some time. Or the EC spores they may remain dormant within the bloodstream, the Rabbits immune system ,dealing with them. Or they may erupt into cells in specific parts of the body, namely the central nervous system, the kidneys, the lens of the eyes and even the heart and liver. The latter two are apparently seen less frequently and are usually only detected in post mortem findings. Some Vets also link EC with Dental Disease, but there is not a huge amount published about this aspect AFAIK.


http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/166/23/730.1.extract

I believe some Vets also feel EC can effect the GI tract, but again I am not aware of much documented evidence of this. Infact even the effect of EC on the brain is controversial, results gained from post mortem findings may be inconclusive and may not tie in with how the clinical symptoms presented. So really there remains much that is not fully understood about EC. It certainly seems that UK Vets and those from the USA differ greatly in their opinions about EC.

If the EC spores erupt the cellular damage which occurs is what causes clinical symptoms. This cellular damage caused by the inflammatory response to erupting spores is permanent, hence the importance of trying to minimise the amount of inflammation by giving regular non steroidal ant-inflammatory medication eg Metacam.

Giving Fenbendazole as a 'preventative' is still controversial. Most Exotics Vets in the UK now advise NOT to do so but to give a 'one off' 28 day course, only treating again should clinical symptoms develop. Over use of Fenbendazole does not come without risks including the emergence of resistance to treatment and damage to bone marrow leading to damage to the immune system.

These links may be useful to look at

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Paper/fenbendazole.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Signs/Cuniculi_signs.html

MichG said:

In my experience Panacur/Lapizole does nothing to an active EC.
I have had 2 buns with it now, one at the bridge and one is still alive and after the course finished and 2 further blood tests they both still had very high levels of the antibody. My rabbit savvy vet (actually both rabbit savvy vets) have said they never bother with it as have never had a good result from it. Their advice from both of them was "you can use it if you want as it won't do any harm but I have never had a case where they rabbit got any better from it's use".

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I find this curious from your vet, to be honest. In my experience, the bunnies improved greatly on the Panacur, only for it to keep returning (plus there was probably some permanent damage from the spores). So, for me it was just part of the management of their symptoms, and not a cure, but still an absolute God-send, and definitely life prolonging.

And isn't the antibody test just about exposure to EC? Therefore, any repeated tests would show high levels.

Obviously we all have our own experiences, and I'd really like a better treatment to turn up, but I definitely think Panacur/Lapizole have a role to play in the mean time.

nessar said:

Does it actually cure EC?

My vet said he couldnt find his rabbit textbook but he reckoned it didnt have the right active ingredient, and the only thing to actually cure it was something else (cant remember what he called it) which he would probably have to ship from America?

But on here panacur is always reccommended for EC... Does panacur not actually cure it but control it or something?

Click to expand...

I totally agree with your vet. Over in the US I know of someone who was doing a lot of research into EC with his local vet school. His findings were that Fenbendazole does not penetrate the blood brain barrier and so can't penetrate far enough in to beat it. He was using a different horse wormer that was similar, but not the same and finding much more positive results. Fenbendazole can sometimes 'help' but it's not actually curing it. What is often seen is that as the body is attacked by it the symptoms are first seen, and then the body mounts an attack back and the bunny improves, and then the EC mounts a further attack so the bunny appears to deteriorate again, and then it's body tries to mount another attack back, and so s/he appears to improve again, and so on until the body can no longer fight back.

As I understand it, most cases of EC are actually inaccurately diagnosed because it's not understood much at all, and because the majority of bunnies do test positive for it.

Sky-O said:

I totally agree with your vet. Over in the US I know of someone who was doing a lot of research into EC with his local vet school. His findings were that Fenbendazole does not penetrate the blood brain barrier and so can't penetrate far enough in to beat it. He was using a different horse wormer that was similar, but not the same and finding much more positive results. Fenbendazole can sometimes 'help' but it's not actually curing it. What is often seen is that as the body is attacked by it the symptoms are first seen, and then the body mounts an attack back and the bunny improves, and then the EC mounts a further attack so the bunny appears to deteriorate again, and then it's body tries to mount another attack back, and so s/he appears to improve again, and so on until the body can no longer fight back.

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Ah I see - that's very interesting. I can't see what the alternative is until this other drug is widely introduced though.

SarahP said:

Ah I see - that's very interesting. I can't see what the alternative is until this other drug is widely introduced though.

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There aren't any really, unless people can get the other drug from the US. I beieve it's called Ponazuril or Marquis. The problem with thatt drug is the mixing of it because for rabbits you use it in such tiny amounts compared to horses and the concentrations are not even throughout the paste, as I understand it. So it needs to be really thoroughly mixed.

I'm not sure I would even use Panacur in EC at all to be honest. In my opinion, I think the best help for a bunnies body, at the moment, is keeping it as stress free and in as good condition as possible.

Yes, I think there is certainly an argument for the emphasis being on boosting up the immune system etc, rather than attacking it with a whole load of drugs.

one of the family said:

My understanding of it is that the panacur gets rid of the parasite and the spores that caused EC. It cannot reverse the damage done in the brain etc by the parasite. Metacam should be given as soon as possible though as the metacam (or its equivalent) brings down the inflamation in the brain caused by the parasite and it is this inflamation or lesions that cause head tilt, leg weakness etc. It is also very helpful for pain relief too obviously.

Panacur can also be given as a preventative - it is a wormer as we know and it also gets rid of the EC parasite before it causes damage if given at the right time. The question is of course, when is the right time as just like worms, you can worm your rabbit every 6 months but a day after the treatment they could pick up worms. The way I see it, we panacur our buns once every 6 - 8 months. Spores can live outside the body for up to 28 days so we bleach as much as possible every 28 days and then with the panacur this cuts down on the chances of the buns getting it.

Our girl bun Buttercup made a full recovery from a bad case of EC but it took time and effort especially for her but she fought all the way. She's watching me type now - looking more beautiful than ever!

Click to expand...

please read everything people has posted on this thread as you cannot cure ec and it could come back and your rabbit could go through all that again. I am not telling this to scare you but to prepare you so you are less upset,stressed and shocked if it happens again...

Yuki has EC and has had two occurrences of it so please research. If you vets have told you, you can cure ec then you need to find another vet because they are not rabbit savvy....

little-laura said:

please read everything people has posted on this thread as you cannot cure ec and it could come back and your rabbit could go through all that again. I am not telling this to scare you but to prepare you so you are less upset,stressed and shocked if it happens again...

Yuki has EC and has had two occurrences of it so please research. If you vets have told you, you can cure ec then you need to find another vet because they are not rabbit savvy....

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Thanks for your concern Little Laura :wave:

I did a lot of research on EC back in February / March of 2010 when Buttercup was taken ill with a very severe case of head tilt later diagnosed (through ruling much out after x rays, blood tests, observation, treatment etc) and a high EC titre. She had a short, less severe bout of head tilt 3 months earlier and was treated with 9 days panacur and some anti bs then only and there was no mention of EC.
When she became ill for the second time we saw a number of different vets from different practices trawling through them looking for help as they all seemed at a loss as she was so very ill.

During my research I communicated via email and telephone with various people over the UK and the USA and yes, there are many different views on EC.

By the time we got to Jason Burgess at Wood Vets Bristol, we had all but given up hope. Buttercup had just got worse and worse over the 17 / 18 days and showed no signs of recovery.
Within two days of starting treatment with Jason there were improvements and Buttercup made gradual improvements back to full health.

I have never said that EC can be cured, nor have I said my vet has told me such. I have said Buttercup has made a full recovery – nearly two years of excellent health and no signs of head tilt constitutes full recovery to me.

I am aware EC can reoccur and different people have different views on the treatment and possible preventative measures. We have followed our vet’s advice to the letter and so far (touch wood) Buttercup has not suffered a re-occurrence and none of our 8 other house buns who incidentally all share living space have shown any symptoms. This could be more luck than judgement but I trust my vet 100%.

With regards to him being rabbit savvy, again I did my research. I have seen him referred to on here and on FB as ‘the rabbit god’. He is used and highly recommended by many including Alice at Windwhistle Warren, Blackberry Boarding and many other RUers. When in the surgery I meet bunnies and their humans from Devon, Cornwall, Hampshire, Oxford, the Midlands, Dorset, Wales and the local Bristol / Gloucester area all travelling many miles for a consultation / treatment. We travel 80-90 minutes each way to see him. I have taken my friend’s rabbit to him to perform a complicated tooth extraction (other vets refused to try!) and he has ‘fixed’ Squirrel, Buttercup’s husbun when he had a difficult lump in his dewlap. Jason’s knowledge and care is exemplary.

I am sorry Yuki is still suffering. I know how hard it is to nurse them, emotionally I mean for us as their humans let alone the suffering they have to go through.

I will never underestimate this disgusting parasite and the damage it causes.

So yes, there are many different viewpoints and opinions on EC and its treatment however I can only speak from my understanding and first hand experience. I believe Buttercup had the right treatment at the right time. I know despite all that has been done for some buns they haven’t been so lucky.

Best wishes to Yuki - healing vibes being sent xx