Pain signs

I have been thinking about this a lot in recent days because of Valerie

This is a theory I came up with a while back just wondered if anyone else agrees :?

Bunnies that have experienced pain or discomfort most of their lives due either to disability or serious neglect rarely communicate any new pain they are suffering in a way a happy healthy bunny might do. Especially if they have moved from a neglect situation to a loving home where they have never been happier.

the two main examples among many we have come across is Moses a bunny who was seriously abused before he came to us. At 7 years old he had been left with a permanently deformed front leg due to a break that never received medical treatment, his teeth were some of the worst we had ever seen, his abdomen had been cut open with scissors and our vet was pretty convinced scissors were also involved in a home castration While he was with us he needed repeated dentals but never once indicated he had any tooth pain or changed his eating habits. He was eventually pts when we woke one morning to find the whole side of his face had abscesed. X-rays showed he had a tumour in his middle ear that had become infected and tracked through his face. He would have been in agony but he never gave us a hint anything was wrong.
Wesley was born with a deformity which while he was tiny never appeared to give him any problems. A the months progressed and he started to grow it gave him a lot of discomfort to the point that he was on high doses of metacam and needed acupuncture. He passed away a few months back from kidney failure. he was only diagnosed a week or two before we had to let him go, the vet thought he should have had around 6 months. we now think it was going on a lot longer but he just didn't tell us their was a problem because he was used to coping with his issues :?

Both these bunnies were house bunnies that free ranged in our lounge so i was with them all the time.

I am now worrying that we have the same situation with Valerie. Her roots and teeth were horrendous when she came to us. It was clear she had been neglected in her previous home. For the past 18 months she has 24 hours free range, lots of bunny companions, soft beds and good food, although her personality has changed slightly she is basically in bunny heaven and doesn;t want to give that up easily. But both us and the vets are convinced she is in a lot more pain than she is letting on, despite the fact she doesn't want to communicate this to us. It is making it incredibly hard to help her in the best way.

So going back to my original question at the start of the post - if you can remember that far back - has anyone else found this with their bunnies?

I'm not easily shocked, but what happened to Moses is absolutely sickening.

Obviously I don't know about the bunnies but for humans it often goes to one extreme or the other. Either they're hypersensitive to pain and and strongly affected by even minor illnesses, or like your bunnies they appear to barely register things until it's too late because on a psychological level they've half-withdrawn from their bodies due to what they've been through and/ or beacause they have conditioned themselves to survive by showing no weakness.

Vita said:

I'm not easily shocked, but what happened to Moses is absolutely sickening.

Obviously I don't know about the bunnies but for humans it often goes to one extreme or the other. Either they're hypersensitive to pain and and strongly affected by even minor illnesses, or like your bunnies they appear to barely register things until it's too late because on a psychological level they've half-withdrawn from their bodies due to what they've been through and/ or beacause they have conditioned themselves to survive by showing no weakness.

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Yes I think this is part of what i am getting at

For those that don't remember Moses, this is him. He was such a gentle loving boy

Hugo's There said:

Yes I think this is par of what i am getting at

For those that don't remember Moses, this is him. He was such a gentle loving boy

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What a gorgeous bun. I feel sick that someone could mistreat him in that horrific way.

Oh my, sorry I have nothing to add but after couldn't read and run, that really shocked and sickened me the poor bunnies, glad they found you though.

Moses' story is so sad - and Wesley . .

however I can say from two of my buns that have in the past had a lot of pain - that they do show it now when it flares up again.

Parsley in particular will stop eating when his ear hurts . . even though he has been through a leg break, pinnings, several ops for that, inner ear abscess, etc etc.

Comfrey who came to me as a PTS case his teeth were so bad will still stop eating when they hurt again.

Thanks, he was with us for 2 years and had a bunny companion in Summer so i am sure he had many happy memories to take to the bridge in the end

Anyone else have any experience of bunnies hiding their pain in this way?

parsnipbun said:

Moses' story is so sad - and Wesley . .

however I can say from two of my buns that have in the past had a lot of pain - that they do show it now when it flares up again.

Parsley in particular will stop eating when his ear hurts . . even though he has been through a leg break, pinnings, several ops for that, inner ear abscess, etc etc.

Comfrey who came to me as a PTS case his teeth were so bad will still stop eating when they hurt again.

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Thanks :wave:

Valerie use to excitedly take her metacam straight from her syringe but now its a struggle as she flinches so much when I go near her face. She hasn't eaten solid food for many weeks but 90% of the time she wolfs it down with great enthusiasm. She is more feisty and sometimes bordering on aggressive but she looks great, good weight, great coat and has plenty of energy. I know she is hurting but have no idea how much. I don't want her to end her life in agony

Aaw, poor Moses, how can people be so cruel?!! Glad he was happy with you

Their stories are so sad, I am so pleased they found you:thumb:

I dont have any experience of rabbits hiding pain but have experienced this plenty with dogs. The ones who come in abused or very neglected often hide any pain they are feeling. My Maisy who I have had since 8 weeks old is the biggest wimp ever, she has never known any pain and wails when she has her vaccs:lol:

helen01 said:

Their stories are so sad, I am so pleased they found you:thumb:

I dont have any experience of rabbits hiding pain but have experienced this plenty with dogs. The ones who come in abused or very neglected often hide any pain they are feeling. My Maisy who I have had since 8 weeks old is the biggest wimp ever, she has never known any pain and wails when she has her vaccs:lol:

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This is my main concern, i also think it is more true once they find happiness too as the happiness they feel for all the good things in life over rides the pain that they have been used to for so long :?

I keep thinking what is the point of us rescuing Valerie if we are going to leave her in severe dental pain for too long, she might as well be left where she was in that respect as we are not doing anything for her ( as far as her health is concerned) If you understand what i mean.

The vet wanted to let her go under Ga several weeks ago but we asked for more time, but there is no point giving her that if she is hurting badly.

Can you tell i am having sleepless nights over this I have never regretted taking a bunny to be pts too early but have several times regretted leaving it too late. But at the moment i can't bring myself to make a decision for her. Normally i have a gut instinct but at the moment I don't, so maybe that means its not the right time yet. Or maybe i am hanging on because I don;t want to be the one to decide for her and have to let her go

I don't have any personal experience of it but your theory makes a lot of sense, Liz. I don't know what to advise for Valerie but I know you will do your best to make the right decision for her, whatever that may be. Huge hugs. xxx

We had a similar thing with a foster dog this week, I collected her in an appalling state she was only day(s) from the bridge. Everyone who met her last week said it would be kinder to let her go but myself and the boss insisted she should have some time to show us what she wanted. I cannot believe it but she is pulling through, gaining weight each day and becoming stronger (albeit a small amount) each day. I really do know what you are going through, I struggled with it all last week and its a horrible feeling. Go with your gut feeling and remember you are doing it for the right reasons, they know you love and care for them and any decisions you make are done with the best of intentions. ***Hugs***

Scarlet, who as you know has horrendous teeth, never shows any signs of pain whatsoever. We have her teeth checked every month (lovely vet does not charge us for this) and the only way we can guage whether they are getting bad is by her eating speed as she gets slower when her teeth are getting bad but she continues to eat and eat well. She also appears not to be in pain after a dental, and will eat nuggets the same day and I cannot believe that that does not hurt to some extent despite the post dental metacam as the teeth are taken back to just below the gum line. I have always thought that because she was in such a horrendous state when the RSPCA took her in, that she either has learned to live with a certain level of discomfort as her "norm" or has developed a very high pain threshold as some people would after suffering chronic pain.

You can feel the points of Valerie's roots breaking through her jaw, how can that not be agony?? I am astounded that she has never developed abscesses

Gauging quality of life for any animal is hard, but I have always believed you know. In my many years as a rat owner I became convinced that when they have had enough they will let you know and you see it in their eyes. They also tend to show very few outward signs of discomfort and will battle on. I have also often thought that it's harder to be the owner than the animal, but when it's their time they know it and you can pick up on it. Know you'll do what's best and don't envy you at all. I'd hate to have to make the choices you do.

I could type all night about this because i understand what you are saying.
But i am not great at wording things like you are.

My bunny Hazel, that has been with me for four years, (she is possibly 8 years now) she came with helicopter ears. But this has been caused by an undiognosed inner ear absess, which has effected the nerves in the side of her face and caused her ear to drop and her face to twist.
She had an op at FHB a month ago to try and sort it, she also has serious dental problems that previous vets hat attempted to sort.
Fhb said she was amazed she had never let on to the pain she must have felt and could still have.

This reply could go on forever, I am ending it now.

I dont even know what I am trying to say now, except some rabbits show pain more than others .
We can only somtimes guess how they feel.
And what a terrible feeling of responsibility that puts us in.

Thank you so much for posting.

I really hope with the right treatment Hazel can be made more comfortable.

For Valerie we have nothing left to try now, it can only get worse I guess :? So do we carry on and pray that she isn't suffering :?

the one promise we make to all our bunnies is that we will never let them suffer again.

i don;t know so i know no-one on here has the answer either, but it is always good to hear other people's views

Hugo's There said:

I have never regretted taking a bunny to be pts too early but have several times regretted leaving it too late.

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I've not had this situation with a bun yet having only become bunny staff by accident a year ago but we've had 5 dogs and 2 cats euthanased over the years the only ones I've regretted were the ones I know I got wrong and let them go on too long. There were two - one cat, one dog. I only got it wrong by a day or two but I still feel guilty. On the other hand, one cat probably could have hung on for a few more weeks or months but she was definitely in pain, no question, so I made the decision.

It's a horrible decision to have to make for any animal because they are all different and there is rarely distinct and incontrovertible evidence on which to base that decision.