I need some advice, Mandy is at it again....

Hi there. I am just at my wits end with Mandy, so I want some advice, in case I am not seeing things right from all the stress I have right now.

As you know, Mandy had a case of RTI about a month ago, which sort of got sorted out with Azitromicyn. When we cut out this drug (cause it was causing her intestinal inflammation, which hurts as hell), the sneezes and the little breathing noise started to come back.

I got her started on Enrofloxacin, and the noise and sneezes went away. I was doing two daily doses of it. After two weeks of her being perfect, I cut half the dose, to see what happened. Lo and behold, 5 days later, sneezing and a slight breathing noise again.

(I would like to note that I got her an X-Ray done, and her lungs and heart look fine, so whatever she has now, its something very mild, but its still there, threatening to come back).

Now, I wouldn't mind giving her antibiotics until she is fine, if it weren't that as soon as I start the two dosis of Enrofloxacin a day, she stops pooing abruptly. Her poop production grinds to a halt (poos are small, and probably poops 1/4 of her usual production), which leads to her belly being swollen and uncomfortable.

Gave my vet a call, and she said to continue the antibiotics until the RTI is finally gone, but I am afraid that, by saving her from the RTI, I am going to kill her with an antibiotic induced stasis. :?

My vet mentioned Bactrim (known also as Septrin, sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim) as an alternative. Since I won't be able to reach my vet (weekend, gotta love buns) till Monday, does anyone know whats the usual dosage for this drug?
Anyone had any experience with Septrin and side effects?.

Its totally a gamble, but I need to find an antibiotic that leaves her gut alone ( or at the very least, doesn't interfere as much with her usual gut problems).

Also, I can't get a frigging culture test done, since she has no nasal discharge at all, so we are shooting in the dark. So far the two antibiotics we tried worked, but the gut problems they carry along make it impossible to give them as long term until she is healed.

Sorry, I am just stressed out of my mind here, and I would gladly appreciate any help you can give me.

Has she had any investigation of her skull (Xrays) and nasal passages (endoscopic investigation) ??

Is she producing a lot of mucus from her nose ?

Apart from systemic antibiotics has she also received a non steroidal anti inflammatory and any other treatment such as nebulisation ?

With regards to Septrin, we cannot give you dosing advice. It is a prescription only medication and only the Vet treating your Rabbit can advise re appropriate dose rate

What a difficult situation. I don't have any advice, but I hope you can find a drug that agrees with her. Sending lots of vibes for Mandy xx

Jack's-Jane said:

Has she had any investigation of her skull (Xrays) and nasal passages (endoscopic investigation) ??

Is she producing a lot of mucus from her nose ?

Apart from systemic antibiotics has she also received a non steroidal anti inflammatory and any other treatment such as nebulisation ?

With regards to Septrin, we cannot give you dosing advice. It is a prescription only medication and only the Vet treating your Rabbit can advise re appropriate dose rate

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Xrays were done, nothing unusual showed up. No mucus at all, her nose is pristine. This is what bugs my vet the most, the "no discharge at all" part. If she had any, we would have done a culture test, which would have been great to figure out what was going on.

We did have her on Meloxicam when she was on her worst days of the past RTI, but she doesn't seem to need it now.
I did suggest nebulisation to my vet, but she didn't seem to like the idea, mostly cause it can be quite stressful, and Mandy reacts pretty bad to stress (instant gi stasis).

This morning she pooed even less than yesterday, so I am cutting the Enrofloxacin to zero until her belly is up and running again. She is still bright and eating by the truckloads. But just as it comes in, it also needs to come out.

About the Septrin, don't worry Jane, its cool .

So sorry to hear this and I do hope that she gets better v.soon.

I've gone through snuffles with Evie, although unlike Mandy she did have discharge and we have been able to clear it up by sprinkling red raspberry leaf on her food as well as putting echnicha and vitamin drops in her water. We were prescribed septrin but it seemed to do very little; having said that though Mandy does sound like a different case

You may want to put some pro-biotic in her water to help her gut as well, it can't hurt and our vet is always happy for us to do that when we are worried about any of the buns

Maybe you could discuss with your vet the possibility of administering antibiotics via injection. My vets let me do this with my bun Mimi when she was on abx. That way the gut wont be affected and she'll still be getting the abx :wave:

Just a thought, have you tried dust extracted hay, and dust free bedding? reducing the amount of dust in the environment might help.

Sorry if u know this x

Thanks for all the replies

Ya, I am giving her a good amount of probiotics, and they do help, but only when I am giving her little to no antibiotics. As soon s I step up the dose, not even probiotics can keep her belly going.

Antibiotic injections is something I had considered, but I want to leave that as a last choice. I had to give Mandy Metoclopramide shots for like 6 months or more, and its not something I want to go through again if I can avoid it. But I am always keeping that option open in case the oral Septrin fails too.

All the hay we have is all dust free, and her cage gets cleaned and fully desinfected twice a day.

I managed to contact my vet (poor woman, she can't escape from me, even on weekends) and she already gave me a starting dosage for the Septrin, so I am crossing fingers that she will be able to handle it (and for the antibiotic to finally get rid of her snuffles, at least till next year ). Still, I won't start her on it until her gut is running fine again.

Cheers

I really feel strongly that injectable antibiotics are the way to go. My Grimlock has snuffles and he's on depocillin injections every three days and baytril every day. The combination has given him a normal life again. Some days his nose is even dry which is just amazing. For each rabbit the infection is different and different antibiotics are needed, but I inject Grim myself at home and he really doesn't care any more. I've been doing them on and off since 2009 when he had jaw abscesses and now I know he will be on them for the rest of his life, but it will be a longer and happier life than he would have had otherwise.

Rabbit's guts are very sensitive so I think avoiding them all together is the best thing. :wave:

Jenova said:

I really feel strongly that injectable antibiotics are the way to go. My Grimlock has snuffles and he's on depocillin injections every three days and baytril every day. The combination has given him a normal life again. Some days his nose is even dry which is just amazing. For each rabbit the infection is different and different antibiotics are needed, but I inject Grim myself at home and he really doesn't care any more. I've been doing them on and off since 2009 when he had jaw abscesses and now I know he will be on them for the rest of his life, but it will be a longer and happier life than he would have had otherwise.

Rabbit's guts are very sensitive so I think avoiding them all together is the best thing. :wave:

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:thumb: In addition to this excellent post may I add:-

The key factor in snuffles is getting the secretions runny & draining, because the ABx can't reach all the bugs.

Nebulising with saline which you can make yourself from salt & boiled water is the most effective way & has been dramatically effective.
The buns I know from RU haven't been stressed by it at all, as long as they were introduced to the components slowly before being nebulised eg food in the chamber, making the chamber from their carrier, & the noise of the nebuliser. Remarkably they've mostly wanted to be nebulised cos they feel better afterwards.
(Note - putting ABx in the nebuliser tends to cause colonisation by resistant organisms if done long term)

They need NSAIDS for pain relief from blocked sinusus (which we can't detect) & to reduce swelling from inflammation to help the secretions to drain.

Treatment has to be prolonged, even when briefly symptom free, because we never know when everything is draining well.

If Mandy is easily stressed I'd also consider giving her a small dose of tincture of Echinacea. (The amount of alcohol per dop is negligable) Although it's marketed as boosting the immune system it does this indirectly.
It reduces the abnormally high levels of cortisol made by the body during stress. Cortisol markedly suppresses a bunny immune system and also reduces gut motility. Mandy may benefit from both effects.

thumps_ said:

:thumb: In addition to this excellent post may I add:-

The key factor in snuffles is getting the secretions runny & draining, because the ABx can't reach all the bugs.

Nebulising with saline which you can make yourself from salt & boiled water is the most effective way & has been dramatically effective.
The buns I know from RU haven't been stressed by it at all, as long as they were introduced to the components slowly before being nebulised eg food in the chamber, making the chamber from their carrier, & the noise of the nebuliser. Remarkably they've mostly wanted to be nebulised cos they feel better afterwards.
(Note - putting ABx in the nebuliser tends to cause colonisation by resistant organisms if done long term)

They need NSAIDS for pain relief from blocked sinusus (which we can't detect) & to reduce swelling from inflammation to help the secretions to drain.

Treatment has to be prolonged, even when briefly symptom free, because we never know when everything is draining well.

If Mandy is easily stressed I'd also consider giving her a small dose of tincture of Echinacea. (The amount of alcohol per dop is negligable) Although it's marketed as boosting the immune system it does this indirectly.
It reduces the abnormally high levels of cortisol made by the body during stress. Cortisol markedly suppresses a bunny immune system and also reduces gut motility. Mandy may benefit from both effects.

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Thanks for the great advice Judy

I am pretty sure she knows the noise of the nebuliser, as I have used it myself quite a bit a couple of months ago, and it sounds like there is a 747 trying to take off in my room =P
Ya, I am very well aware that the treatment needs to be long, so I am here just hoping that she can tolerate the Septrin.

As for needles, yeah...if the Septrin fails, it might come to that. Its just that I am terrified of starting with them again. By the time I was finishing her last batch of injections, she would smell the alcohol that I was using to prepare the injection, and she would start to freak out, run and hide under furniture, and just overall looking at me with an angry/scared face, which in turn made me freak out too

Nebulisation might help too then. I have bought saline solution from Boots (contact lens section) to use in the nebuliser. I poke the nozzle through the carrier door and cover it all with a towel. And Thumps_ is right about painkillers too. No infection will drain if the passages are too swollen and of course she could be in pain too. This really helped Grim. I just used everything I could, hit the infection from all angles.

Snooba said:

Thanks for the great advice Judy

I am pretty sure she knows the noise of the nebuliser, as I have used it myself quite a bit a couple of months ago, and it sounds like there is a 747 trying to take off in my room =P
Ya, I am very well aware that the treatment needs to be long, so I am here just hoping that she can tolerate the Septrin.

As for needles, yeah...if the Septrin fails, it might come to that. Its just that I am terrified of starting with them again. By the time I was finishing her last batch of injections, she would smell the alcohol that I was using to prepare the injection, and she would start to freak out, run and hide under furniture, and just overall looking at me with an angry/scared face, which in turn made me freak out too

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:lol: Yep they can be pretty loud.

You'll realise that in the UK we don't use a mask for buns. I think they'd have to be very layed back for that.:shock:

It also occurred to me that they may be less frightening for a bun if the machine is on a concrete floor. Wooden floors can vibrate a lot (mine do). Buns are very sensitive to vibration. Thumper was very distressed by an earthquake no one felt in Swindon, at exactly the right time & for the right duration that there was a small 'quake 150 miles away.

Snooba said:

My vet mentioned Bactrim (known also as Septrin, sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim) as an alternative. Since I won't be able to reach my vet (weekend, gotta love buns) till Monday, does anyone know whats the usual dosage for this drug?
Anyone had any experience with Septrin and side effects?.

Click to expand...

Not sure if this question has already been answered, I'm too lazy to read all of the posts But my Boris has been on Bactrim twice and is back on it again now, and as far as I'm concerned there aren't any known side effects except stomach upsets (which should be cool if she's on probiotics). His symptoms are similar to your bunny's (he's sneezing and coughing but no discharge) and it has helped him a lot in the past, so it might be worth trying