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Artie is at the vets again, bladder sludge. Home and lively.

Bunny Buddy

Wise Old Thumper
He was out of sorts a good part of yesterday with intermittent bouts of being bright. He hadn't eaten much of his cabbage at midday but the cabbage wasn't up to its usual quality.

I gave him better cabbage early evening and he didn't eat a great deal of that either.:cry: He wasn't pestering for cuddles in the evening like he normally does but did happily accept cuddles and did a kind of desperate nudging for nose rubs/comfort that told me he didn't feel good. After 11pm he appeared to be in a great deal of pain and did a lot of rolling or shuffling. I intended to do the blood glucose test but, because I'm useless, I just couldn't do it :cry: The fact that he'd been out of sorts all day pointed more to kidneys/bladder problems (He has pre-existing history) rather than gut blockage but I took the decision to take him to the vets (poor vet!). Ruth was brilliant as ever, thorough and patient despite it being 12.45 am. X-ray shows it not kidney stones, blood glucose was normal - not blockage. He then strained a few times on his tray and produced a very chalky wee. Ruth had been palpating his bladder so it might have come out because of that but it seems his bladder is causing the pain. It's only two weeks since he had his bladder expressed. :cry::cry: As he had a similar episode to this 7 weeks ago (no definite cause found), it could be that his bladder has reached crisis point again, he *may* need further surgery :( It's only a *possibility* at this stage and hopefully the treatment he's on now will clear it. I'm assuming though that it's likely that his bladder will need closer management now. Poor little soul, it's just one thing after another for him. The prognosis is still quite good it's just a lot of stress for the poor little love, who of course has EC lurking in the background.

He's on strong painkillers, he's had injectable fluids to flush his bladder (make the stuff more palpable to express), gut meds to cushion the effects of any slowdown and TLC.
 
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Oh no, poor little Artie. :( I really hope that the treatment works and he can avoid further surgery. Sending lots and lots of vibes. xxx
 
Oh no, poor little Artie. :( I really hope that the treatment works and he can avoid further surgery. Sending lots and lots of vibes. xxx

Thanks. I'm just hugely grateful it's not kidneys stones as I'm sure the bladder is very much the lesser of the two evils.

It's so hard to understand what's going on though because he's been on a low calcium diet for 2.5 years and very carefully controlled diet for 3 months now.
 
As he has a history of EC I wonder if his bladder problems are to do with some EC related damage to the 'neurological wiring' meaning that Artie is not fully emptying his bladder every time he urinates. So over time a build up of calcium deposits (sludge) collects in his bladder leading to cystitis ?


Would learning how to check and, if necessary manually express his bladder each day be something to discuss with Ruth/FHB? I have had a few Buns for whom I have had to do this. Two of them being 'EC' Rabbits.

Lots of vibes for poor Artie xx
 
Poor Artie, hope the problem is solved very soon.
Thank you.

As he has a history of EC I wonder if his bladder problems are to do with some EC related damage to the 'neurological wiring' meaning that Artie is not fully emptying his bladder every time he urinates. So over time a build up of calcium deposits (sludge) collects in his bladder leading to cystitis ?


Would learning how to check and, if necessary manually express his bladder each day be something to discuss with Ruth/FHB? I have had a few Buns for whom I have had to do this. Two of them being 'EC' Rabbits.

Lots of vibes for poor Artie xx

Thanks Jane. FHB has said that she thinks the problem is because he is not fully emptying his bladder, though I didn't know of the possible association with EC, I just thought his bladder had a design fault.

It may be the next stage will be me doing more for him bladder-wise though I'm not sure. They know I'm not good at the hands-on but sometimes you have to learn through necessity. I do remember ages ago Frances says she could show me but she had difficulty finding his bladder to express well that day so didn't see it as an option. There is also the issue that his kidney stones were discovered immediately after Frances expressed his bladder and she is being extremely careful in case there is a connection between expressing his bladder and some kind of back-flow - complicates it if I were to try at home.
 
I got a little update half an hour ago.

He's bright in himself, he's still on sub-cuts and his urine is now looking more liquid rather than chalk, so it appears to be flushing the sediment out nicely.

He's not eating a huge amount but is eating hay, grass, dandelions, the stuff that's best for him, bless him. He's not really bothered much (at all? can't remember) with his veg. He's been syringe fed because there's not enough going in under his own steam. He's also on Domperidone et all to keep it all running smoothly.

It all sounds very positive, oh, and he's being a good boy for the nursing team and being good to handle :love::love::love: ..... but then he must be on first name terms with them all by now :?
 
It does all sound very positive; I really hope that means he can come home soon. :love:
 
Glad to hear Artie is a bit better.
Rabbit bladders can be such a problem.

I have a "bladder" bunny:shock, but I cannot find his bladder to empty it althogh I have been shown how to do it many times, this really frustrates me that I cant do this to help my bunny.
How old is Artie? will you bring him home tomorrow?
 
Thanks, Karen & Jane.

Glad to hear Artie is a bit better.
Rabbit bladders can be such a problem.

I have a "bladder" bunny:shock, but I cannot find his bladder to empty it althogh I have been shown how to do it many times, this really frustrates me that I cant do this to help my bunny.
How old is Artie? will you bring him home tomorrow?

Thanks. Artie is 7 years 3 months. He had his kidney removed the week before his seventh birthday. He's been having his bladder expressed since April 2009 when he had a cystotomy to clear all the sludge from his bladder.

As for coming home - that will depend on how much he's eaten as they will want him fighting fit when he comes back out (to save me panicking if nothing else! :oops:). I got the impression it's likely but I think it's equally likely that he'll have another "just to make sure" day.
 
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It is not easy getting your bunny back from FHB vets;) ,as you say, they like them full of bounce before they send them home.
I have been seriously disappointed some days when I was advised they should stay a day or two longer. I
have "learned" to be patient and value the opinion of this vets as (thankfully) up to now things have always worked out well:) .
Considering I was told by my local vet that nothing more could be done for Uncle:roll: three years later, under the care of FHB he is a happy bunny.

Sending lots of vibes for Artie and his bladder.
 
He will be staying in the whole of the weekend :cry::cry::cry:

He's eating hay, grass and dandelions but is being syringe fed. I can ring for an update tomorrow but he won't be coming home tomorrow. Gutted. But of course I do understand with all his medical issues that he has to be definitely well before coming home.

I work full days Monday and Tuesday and only have 1.5 days annual leave between now and April, which probably means he can't come home until Monday evening at the earliest :(
 
That's such a shame :cry:

Could it be that he would actually eat better at home, like it was with Tinks ?

Far be it from me to question FHB though :shock: :oops:


Sending more vibes for Artie xx
 
That's such a shame :cry:

Could it be that he would actually eat better at home, like it was with Tinks ?

Far be it from me to question FHB though :shock: :oops:


Sending more vibes for Artie xx

:( Don't know. (FHB's away this week so it's her team making the decisions). They know Artie well and they know me well. If he needs hands-on he's better off there. They may well be monitoring him to see if he appears in pain/discomfort as a general rule or if it was a blip.... with a view to considering surgery even? (Don't know if my mind is doing overtime there). He is very, very bright and happy normally so to my mind it's not ongoing either a blip or the start of something. I've been told in the past that conservative management is best way of dealing with his bladder condition, surgery unlikely, could change however. Though as he's not emptying his bladder fully a cystotomy might not make much difference as it's the ongoing sediment that will need regularly emptying too.:? I always play hundreds of 'what ifs' and it usually turns out to be simple TLC and observations as a reason for the longer than anticipated stay. It's just, after everything he's been through, every moment I get with him is precious and for him to be away from me is so darned hard. :cry:

Thank you for the vibes:)
 
I'm so sorry he won't be home for a while. :( He's in very safe hands, but I know that doesn't stop you from wanting your little man at home where he belongs. Sending even more vibes. xxxx
 
Thanks all for the thoughts and vibes.

I've got a theory going:

Could orchard grass cause, or exacerbate pre-existing bladder sludge?

I keep reading that readigrass is too high in calcium although it definitely isn't as it's just dried grass. There does however seem to be a link between readigrass and sludgy urine - perhaps if they haven't drunk enough water to dilute the calcium?

Orchard grass also has the correct level of calcium for rabbits so I'm wondering if the same could happen with this. Also based on the theory that I now don't give Artie pellets as any dried food (low calcium or not) counts as higher calcium because of the lack of moisture content.

The reason for the theory: Artie has known bladder sludge issues and has recently been admitted to vets with a painful episode of sludgy urine. I had increased the amount of orchard grass he gets recently as he loves it and I've found it really hard to collect decent fresh grass for about a month or so (I date it back to around the time the clocks changed). He's on a low calcium diet so I'm very careful what he gets so I'm looking for the reason for the worsening in his condition. Does it sound like orchard grass could be the culprit?

Also, another piece of evidence. When Artie was admitted 7 weeks ago his blood glucose was raised to 12, so not desperately high but likely indicative of gut problems, soo, the last episode may not be linked to bladder problems and may be purely coincidental. He wasn't getting a lot of orchard grass then.
 
Thanks all for the thoughts and vibes.

I've got a theory going:

Could orchard grass cause, or exacerbate pre-existing bladder sludge?

I keep reading that readigrass is too high in calcium although it definitely isn't as it's just dried grass. There does however seem to be a link between readigrass and sludgy urine - perhaps if they haven't drunk enough water to dilute the calcium?

Orchard grass also has the correct level of calcium for rabbits so I'm wondering if the same could happen with this. Also based on the theory that I now don't give Artie pellets as any dried food (low calcium or not) counts as higher calcium because of the lack of moisture content.

The reason for the theory: Artie has known bladder sludge issues and has recently been admitted to vets with a painful episode of sludgy urine. I had increased the amount of orchard grass he gets recently as he loves it and I've found it really hard to collect decent fresh grass for about a month or so (I date it back to around the time the clocks changed). He's on a low calcium diet so I'm very careful what he gets so I'm looking for the reason for the worsening in his condition. Does it sound like orchard grass could be the culprit?

Also, another piece of evidence. When Artie was admitted 7 weeks ago his blood glucose was raised to 12, so not desperately high but likely indicative of gut problems, soo, the last episode may not be linked to bladder problems and may be purely coincidental. He wasn't getting a lot of orchard grass then.

I think it will depend on the type of Orchard grass, is the Oxbow stuff? :? If so, there should be a breakdown of calcium content on the packet if I remember rightly? Or if not, on the HRS website i'm sure I saw an Oxbow hay variety breakdown. Will have a look....

You could also try PMing rabbitnutrition on here (I have no idea who they are) but they seem to know A LOT about this sort of thing, also have a look at the Galens Gardens website as I think there is info on there too.

Pain in itself can cause gut problems so it is likely that sludgy urine/pain on urination could be linked to the slowdown of the gut and higher blood glucose and all related.

ETA does Artie only have one kidney or am I confusing you with someone else? If so, there is only half the processing power for filtering the blood so he may be supersensitive to excess calcium..... might be worth discussing with FHB as i'm not sure how one kidney would affect his dietary calcium. :?
 
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