V Hard Decision.. Please Help

Hi All,

My bunny Charlie has been unwell for some months now.
She had a tumour removed from her rectum in April and seemed to recover well for a couple of months until 2 months ago when she started to lose weight. They did blood tests which were all slightly off but not enough to say anything was wrong although they showed she had met with E.C. She then developed hind leg paralysis which we knew was to do with EC so started her on panacur which she now has to have everyday.
She is getting weaker and weaker and now only weighs 1.5kg (shes an english rabbit which averages at 2.5kg) shes lost 200 grams in the last two weeks.
She now has coccidia and the vet has said that we either need to put her to sleep or put her through an operation as they think it is a problem with the gut which is not allowing her to gain any weight and lowering her immune system.
We simply don't know what to do. Although she is a little quiet she still eats, goes to the toilet, is still affectionate and runs around a bit and is generally happy just not very active.
She is not even 18months old and has fought through so much stuff surely it is not right to put her to sleep when she isn't in pain but is affectively wasting away..
.
She will definitely die but how much longer she will live is not certain. Or we have a small chance that they can open her up and find a problem that is fixable, or could be so bad that it would be kinder not to wake her up.

Can anyone tell me honestly what they would do in this situation

i can tell you what i plan to do if any of my buns becomes seriously ill - i've decided that happiness takes precedence over length of life, and won't be working to extend life for it's own sake.

in theory. it might well be different when somebun i love is involved.

thinking about all the good work hugo's there and others do for older and sick bunnies, perhaps its best to keep her going as long as she is enjoying life? people say you'll know when she's had enough.

you obviously care very much about her and want the best for her. i'm sorry there isn't a clear-cut answer but i'm sure that whatever you decide will be in her best interests.

I'm so sorry to read about Charlie and hope that others will come along to offer some more support and advice for you x

Coccidia can be succesfully treated with Septrin, but not sure if being on Panacur will affect this. As for what to do, you know her and know how she is in herself, yes she's having a really, really tough time but she's fighting and the question is whether she can continue to fight and overcome the illnesses to have a good quality of life or whether you should make the hardest but maybe the best decision an owner has to make.

How knowledgeable if your vet on rabbits? You could always seek a second opinion and then decide or if your vet thinks an op would be best chance of survival and she passes under the GA then that's her decision.

I'm sorry I can't tell you what you should do and I don't know how well Charlie is coping but whatever decision you make you are making it in her best interest xx

I would totally trust what my gut instinct was saying was best for her. That would vary rabbit to rabbit and situation to situation, so I can't be more specific on what you should do.

What does your gut instinct say is best for her?

I see you are in Kent. Do you go to Trinity Vets by any chance ?



Personally I would not want to put a Rabbit who is already so severely unwell with two other major illnesses through high risk/poor prognosis abdominal surgery. With so many other problems my honest (UNQUALIFIED, I am NOT a Vet) advice would be to allow a peaceful and dignified passing.

But only you and the Vet treating your Rabbit are in a position to make that decision. If you do go to Trinity Vets and you see a Vet called Mark Rowlands then you have an excellent Rabbit Specialist. If he thought that surgery was the way forward then I would follow his advice.

I am sorry that you are faced with such a tough situation

Thank you all it really is so hard to know what is the best decision to make.

She is on septrin and has been for 10 days but it hasn't helped so far.. Our vet is really very good and knowledgeable and has also just employed an exotic specialist whom Charlie has also seen.. They both seem to be interested in going for the operation as i guess they want to know what it actually is that is wrong.

Like I say Charlie is quiet but is still eating and still gets excited at dinner time, she still eats her hay and drinks (touch wood) shes such a little fighter I'm so close with her now I think I'll know when enough is enough..

We don't go to trinity vets unfortunately although I trust that our vet is very good..

I understand what everyone is saying but would u really pts an animal that was clearly trying to live? ahh so hard!

KirstiRobinson said:

Thank you all it really is so hard to know what is the best decision to make.

She is on septrin and has been for 10 days but it hasn't helped so far.. Our vet is really very good and knowledgeable and has also just employed an exotic specialist whom Charlie has also seen.. They both seem to be interested in going for the operation as i guess they want to know what it actually is that is wrong.

Like I say Charlie is quiet but is still eating and still gets excited at dinner time, she still eats her hay and drinks (touch wood) shes such a little fighter I'm so close with her now I think I'll know when enough is enough..

We don't go to trinity vets unfortunately although I trust that our vet is very good..

I understand what everyone is saying but would u really pts an animal that was clearly trying to live? ahh so hard!

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I have a link in my sig called 'Please Remember to Advocate for your rabbit' that will show you that I was face with the option to PTS a bunny of mine but I knew she wasn't ready and fought for her. That said, I have also fought to have a bunny PTS when I knew it was right and it was a vet I didn't know and who didn't know my bunny.

I truly do think it's just a case of looking in her eyes, thinking what is best for her and listening to what your gut instinct is best for her That could be anything.

I think you and Charlie will both know when the time is right.

In my experience of bunny ownership which is over 16 years, they do let you know in their own way.

One day will be THE day.

I hope until then Charlie and you share some lovely quality time together.

Take care of yourselves. x

As Sky-O says, every situation will be unique and what is right for one Rabbit will be wrong for another. Having a Vet you trust and who knows your Rabbit will help you make the decision. This sort of situation is never easy, never straight forward and ALWAYS 100% individual for each Rabbit and the people involved in their care

If a rabbit is fighting I would help it fight. Like everyone has said only you will know when the time is right. I have a very ill rabbit but with continued meds he is able to lead a very happy life. I know when I walk in and find him sprawled on the floor fast asleep that he's happy.

Also, have you tried porridge or baby food to help her put on weight? I make up porridge with water, apple and banana and cook it and purée it.

I have no further advice but did not want to read and run.

The only other thing I might do in your situation iis to ask your vet to contact the one Jack's Jane has mentioned before any surgery is undertaken if that is what you decide to do. Again it depends how confident you are with your vet.

Sending Charlie lots of vibes and hope that she can pull through this.

Aww darling this is a terrible situation to be in.
In answer to your question 'would I put a bun to sleep if it was still fighting?' My answer would be a big no, if she is still fighting then she still wants to live and i think you should be guilded by her, she will tell you if she is ready to take the long sleep.
If your vet thinks surgery is the best option and you are confident with them then at least you are giving Charlie a fighting chance if it could better her quality and length of life.

Sky-O said:

That said, I have also fought to have a bunny PTS when I knew it was right and it was a vet I didn't know and who didn't know my bunny.

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I have had several dogs where I regret I waited too long to have them pts. Only by a day or two but I should have been brave for them and not weak for me. Equally, I had one cat who I stated I wanted pts and the vet was dubious. However, he hadn't lived with her for 13 years, hadn't seen the change in her or heard her pitiful wail when she pee-ed - pee-ed blood usually. She hated her special diet which was't working anyway so I looked at quality of life (low) and had her put to sleep.

As Sky says, all cases are different so no one can advise you what to do but generally speaking, the regrets I have are over animals where I've made them go through too much and wait too long.

And while vets can be excellent, sometimes their interest in a case and their desire to give you what you want (a living animal) can lead them to continue treatment when it's not always best for the animal. When I'm in a quandary, I usually ask whether they are recommending a procedure for my benefit or honestly, for the animal's and also if it was their beloved pet, would they put the animal through whatever intervention. On several occasions, the vet has said that they probably wouldn't. So we didn't.

Such a difficult decision though. I really feel for you. A second opinion sounds an excellent idea.

Tatihou said:

I have had several dogs where I regret I waited too long to have them pts. Only by a day or two but I should have been brave for them and not weak for me. Equally, I had one cat who I stated I wanted pts and the vet was dubious. However, he hadn't lived with her for 13 years, hadn't seen the change in her or heard her pitiful wail when she pee-ed - pee-ed blood usually. She hated her special diet which was't working anyway so I looked at quality of life (low) and had her put to sleep.

As Sky says, all cases are different so no one can advise you what to do but generally speaking, the regrets I have are over animals where I've made them go through too much and wait too long.

And while vets can be excellent, sometimes their interest in a case and their desire to give you what you want (a living animal) can lead them to continue treatment when it's not always best for the animal. When I'm in a quandary, I usually ask whether they are recommending a procedure for my benefit or honestly, for the animal's and also if it was their beloved pet, would they put the animal through whatever intervention. On several occasions, the vet has said that they probably wouldn't. So we didn't.

Such a difficult decision though. I really feel for you. A second opinion sounds an excellent idea.

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This is why I feel it is so important to build up a trusting relationship with a Vet. There is no way on earth that our Vet would ever seek to continue treatment unless it was 100% for the benefit of the animal. She would neither suggest treatment if it was futile, nor would she suggest PTS if there were any possible alternative. The best interests of the animal are always, ALWAYS put first.
To the OP, if you have that trusting relationship with your Vet then I personally feel you need to draw on that and look to them for guidance. On numerous occasions I have done that with our Vet. I have really not known what to do and my Vet has ALWAYS given me an honest answer with the certainty that ONLY the animal's interests is being taken into account.

I guess what I am trying to say is *if* you have built up a lot of trust in your Vet now may be a good time to turn to them. In all other aspects of my life I dont do trust. But I trust our Vet implicitly and I have never felt that a PTS decision was the wrong one for the Rabbit even though the pain for me is always immense.

Very best wishes to you and your Bunny xx

Charlie has been a little more active the last couple of days after some metacam and we've even had a few flops in front of the fire.

Saying that she's sneezing terribly and although there's no discharge that I can see and no runny eyes or nose, i'm worried she's struggling to breathe a little and she sounds so snotty if that makes sense!

Am off to the vets today on my own as I don't fancy taking her outside in the freezing! Will have a chat with the vet and see if he will give her anything! I guess it could be a respiratory infection

Just wondering if the vet feels he has a clear diagnosis of why he believes a stomach operation would be helpful. Am thinking about x-rays/CT scans etc which might establish what is going on and whether or not operation would help. I am also not a vet but I would think that a stomach operation on an already sick rabbit should be a last resort. Absolutely agree about what jane said on being certain that the interests of the bun are top priority.

I'm sorry, I chanced upon this thread, I have no advice but didn't want to read and run so I am sending hugs for you and mega vibes for Charlie. xx