Dental buns - do they live shorter than others? What about extraction?

Hi,

My Lilou girl is a problematic dental bun... She just had her teeth 'repositioned' by a specialist animal dentist a month ago and now she's making those weird mouth movements indicating pain again...

My question is, do dental buns in general live a shorter life than other non-dental buns? Also, is removing the problem teeth an option? She's about 2 years old and has the best of everything I can afford and possibly offer her - including lots of good quality delicious hay. But I can't control how her teeth grows...

Hello :wave:

I don't have a dental bun, Thank God, but I have red on here that they need to have their teeth done regularly ~ like every few weeks. Maybe you should take her back to the vets? Good luck, and I hope your bunny feels better soon.

Which teeth are causing her problems?

I really think it depends on the problem and luck when it comes to life span, but some can live a near to normal lifespan, others struggle (It might be worth reading about my girlie, Wish, because she has horrendous teeth- you can read about her in the article in my sig called 'Please Advocate for your bunny'.

Having said all that, the future doesn't matter to them, just today matters, so that's how it's important to live with them, live for today because tomorrow is irrelevant to their today.

Well, I think they are towards the back, the teeth. They are growing in a strange way that cuts into her tongue when she eats, causing her ulcers on the tongue. The vet says she hasn't got an abscess nor infection, thank goodness.

I think I read somewhere that they had the teeth of their dental bun removed and I am wondering if this is an option at all if she's still young and healthy and the wounds heal well. Otherwise she is going to be miserable for as long as she lives, with dentals every month... I dont mind the cost.. its the risk in going under anaesthesia and the stress of going to the vet so often that I fear for her.

Those sound like molar spurs, which is what my dental bunnies struggle with (I have 13 dental bunnies here).

She may not be miserable. It's only a small part of every month; really it depends how she recovers and deals with the procedure. You can also do things and work and test and hopefully expand the duration between dentals.

Extraction is not an option for molar teeth unless they are abscessed and lose; the risks outweight the benefits.

It will be less stressful for her with a friend, and you may get into a routine of sending things that help make it less stressful for her.

I would suggest talking with your vet to have pain relief at home so that you can give it when she needs it (under vets instructions) so when you know she needs a dental, but can't get to a vet immediately, you know she won't be in pain. For example, if she was mine, I would be giving her Metacam the second I noticed any signs or symptoms that she needed a dental.

Thanks! I just got some metacam to last her till her next appointment with her specialist dentist. She's still eating, just less, and stoning a lot. And yes, she and her brother Leo travel together everywhere so she does get company and some support.

I have a six year old dental bun who has had issues since he was about a year old. I feed him soggy pellets (soaked in water) and he has painkillers and surgery when needed. He's very happy, just very expensive.

Very nice to hear this Jenova:wave:
Must be down to lots of loving!

I just adopted Lilou and her brother from the shelter 3.5 months ago and they are now so happy running around the house and eating good quality food. I have to admit though that I feel v sad thinking that a bunny with dental issues at the age of 1+, 2 isn't going to live a long life...

Hi there

My mini-lop, George, had molar spurs and when he was diagnosed with these I thought it was the end of the world!
However, we have managed fine with them, having them burred down every 12 weeks, whilst he was awake, without a problem. Due to a tooth root abscess in April of this year he had to have all four front teeth removed, which was a tough time, but he got through it, thankfully! However, since having the front teeth out, it would appear that the spurs on the molars have stopped growing, as it is now 36 weeks since he had them burred and they don't appear to have come back.
George is now 10 years old and he developed molar spurs when he was 6. They are managable - especially if you have a very rabbit-savvy vet, and you will get into a pattern with them (or at least we did) whereby you'll know the telltale signs and when they need doing. I can only say that George is well past his sell-by date, and being a dental bun has not shortened his life - so good luck and keep positive! xxx

That's great that you can take her brother in to the vets with her, I think it really helps make the experience much less frightening for them.

I also have a dental bunny whose back teeth grow into spurs. He also has damage to his respitory system and chronic snuffles, so he is a higher-risk patient for anesthetic anyway. Honestly, I don't think he will live as long as other bunnies, as he has some other undiagnosed problems too, and although my vet said anesthetic only kills 0.0005% of the time (in general, not just for dentals) the risk is still there, and it does get bigger as they grow older. But the thing is, if they do die under anesthetic, you know they wont have been in any pain, and will have just fallen asleep, its the kindest way really.

Dental bunnies are also higher risk patients, as often by the time their owner notices the problem they likely have had a gut slowdown/stasis already, and then they have the dental and wake up feeling more sore, so less likely to eat, so its doubly hard to get the gut moving properly again. Recognising the fact your bun needs a dental early before they stop eating, and ensuring they get decent pain relief and gut motility drugs after, and having fibreplex and Science Recovery/Critical Care at home in case you need to liquid feed - these all help make the process much more comfortable and safer for them.

Like Sky-O said, you can also adjust their diet in order to prolong the time between dentals. This generally involves a strict diet consisting of almost entirely of hay. If you feed a good quality horse hay, with a variety of grasses in it, a healthy outdoor bunny can maintain their weight on hay alone. If they are indoors however, they will need extra vitamin D, so you should feed a small amount of pellets. Feeding fresh grass can also help to increase their grass and hay intake, as most buns prefer it to hay.

Thanks very much everyone. This info is really useful and encouraging...

My concern is how she will be able to survive on a diet of just hay and small amount of pellets!! She is already quite a bony bun. I am afraid she might lose too much weight!! At the moment, they both getting a portion of veggie and herbs in the morn and evening, and lots of hay at all times. When she isn't in pain, she eats a good amount of hay. As soon as she starts having the spurs, she practically stops eating hay.

I would suggest trying junior pellets which is higher in protein, so makes it more likely to put on weight, and also protexin profibre to help get her gut in pinacle condition and absorb the maximum amount of nutrients possible.

Thumper98 said:

Thanks very much everyone. This info is really useful and encouraging...

My concern is how she will be able to survive on a diet of just hay and small amount of pellets!! She is already quite a bony bun. I am afraid she might lose too much weight!! At the moment, they both getting a portion of veggie and herbs in the morn and evening, and lots of hay at all times. When she isn't in pain, she eats a good amount of hay. As soon as she starts having the spurs, she practically stops eating hay.

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That behaviour is perfectly normal, and you should find that the metacam helps keep her appetite up till you can get her to the vet.

In the wild rabbits live purely on grass, wild forage and a little bark, they are designed to be able to make the most of what little nutrition there is in grass, that is why they produce caceotrophs (sp?), so it all goes through twice and they can extract all nutrition out of it.

If she is bony you will have to be careful about changing her diet, but I would cut out any fruit or sugary veg (carrots, peppers etc) as the sugar makes them feel full and stops them eating as much hay. Replace them with fibre-rich greens, like the herbs, spring greens and forage (hawthorne, dandelions, brambles). Then I would introduce fresh grass and/or readigrass, as this can help keep weight on, as well as help wear teeth down. Readigrass can help them put weight whilst still helping grind down teeth.

You want her to be eating at least a pile of hay the size of herself everyday, ideally more. It's a good thing that she likes it. Trying different types of hay may help you to get her eating more.

You may find changing to a higher protein pellet means she keeps her weight on better - I am in the process of doing this myself (changing from Excel to SS) in the hopes that then I can feed my dental bun less pellets, its just a case of monitoring weight whilst you do any changes and remembering to only change one thing at a time so you can see what is causing any change.

Thanks again.

I dont think I can get Readigrass where I am - or at least I have never seen it around. Does Alfalfa hay do the trick since its also high in calories?

I guess I have to separate the 2 of them at feeding times then...

Thumper98 said:

Thanks again.

I dont think I can get Readigrass where I am - or at least I have never seen it around. Does Alfalfa hay do the trick since its also high in calories?

I guess I have to separate the 2 of them at feeding times then...

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Alfalfa hay is very high in calcium so should be given very sparingly, readigrass is a little high but nowhere near as much.

Search online for readigrass on online pet stores. Some British online shops will also deliver to Europe so may be worth contacting them.

You should only have to feed them differently when it comes to pellets, it will be good for your other bun to be on the more natural diet too. You could handfeed the pellets to each so you dont have to separate them

Thanks a lot once again! I made an enquiry online at Friendship Estates who make the Readigrass and they will deliver to Switzerland for 20 pounds 4 packets of 1kg portions. Not sure if this is considered expensive but I think I will go ahead anyway...

What about Oat and spelt wheat? I bought a small pack of this today to add to their hay hoping to get her to eat more protein...

Thumper98 said:

Thanks a lot once again! I made an enquiry online at Friendship Estates who make the Readigrass and they will deliver to Switzerland for 20 pounds 4 packets of 1kg portions. Not sure if this is considered expensive but I think I will go ahead anyway...

What about Oat and spelt wheat? I bought a small pack of this today to add to their hay hoping to get her to eat more protein...

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I pay £3.80 for a 1kg bag not including delivery, so 4kg for £20 including delivery is pretty good! It will last you ages, like I said its a bit higher in calcium than normal grass, so don't feed it unlimited, I would say a couple of handfuls a day should be okay as long as she doesnt have kidney-stone/bladder sludge issues.

I'm not sure about the Oat and Spelt hay, sorry, but if she likes it keep feeding it, because the more hay she eats the less dentals she will need. Also different types of hay wear down different parts of the teeth more, so feeding different types may help.

I have a dental bun, Herbie (the black & white lop in my signature), who hasn't got a good tooth in his head. He started with dental problems when he was a year old.....he is now 7.

Herbie has extensive molar problems and he has to have very regular dentals, at best he will go 6 weeks between dentals, at worst it has been just over two weeks. At the moment he is averaging between 3-4 weeks between dentals.

I think Herbie's success is down to his laid-back personality (he takes things in his stride) and he has an excellent vet. He bounces back quickly from the anaesthetic, which is why we have been able to continue with dentals at such regular intervals. We've been doing this for so long now that I can read Herbie like a book and can recognise subtle signs that there is a problem brewing so we can get him to the vet before the spurs start causing any damage.

Extracting Herbie's teeth was not an option. He was referred to Frances Harcourt-Brown when he went through a really bad patch at 3 years old (dentals were only 2 weeks apart for a number of months). She said she would not want to extract any teeth unless it was an absolute last resort. She said that as long as Herbie continued to bounce back from the anaesthetics, then we should just continue with the dentals whenever he needed them.

ETA He's got no incisors either, he had to have them removed a couple of years ago, so Herbie is a gummy bunny too.

I have mixed experiences...my dental bun Jasmine had to be PTS at 2, but that was because she developed severe jaw abcesses that were inoperable.

Schumi on the other hand was a little fighter! Had his molars removed aged about 9 I think, and lived until he was about 11/12 and died in his sleep. Incidentally, he was not a big hay-eater (if I'd've known about RU then...) Poorly teeth are not necessarily a death-sentence.

Healthy-mowf vibes coming your way!

My bunny Leo is 14, he now has in last few months developed dental issues, he will need regular check ups every 6 weeks or so now for the rest of his life. Am glad my vets rabbit savvy he checks and clips the teeth if needed and sorts the molar spurs without sedation.

Leo has quietened down a lot in his elder years, he really seems relaxed with the vet and the vet is very confident with Leo.

Leo has been Ill recently, not dental but an uri again my vet was great and Leo responded well to antibiotics.

The dental issues are something I need to keep a close eye on and make sure he gets to his regular vets visits for his check ups. So glad my vet did a dental check, I thought there were a few signs as I've had a dental guinea before.

Hope things will go ok for your bunny