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Excessive drinking and weeing UPDATE

vanessa

Warren Scout
All the tests have come back okay, so it was the bladder sludge and a bladder infection causing the incontinence. Bunny has been on baytril and metacam and the problem is pretty much solved, he is on a low calcium diet. He is due to go back for further xrays in two weeks to see if the bladder sludge is coming back, think it would have been a month by then since the last xrays. Is this necesssary, its not about cost as he's insured anyway, but he will need anaesthetic and a day at the vets to be xrayed which will be stressful for him and I'm wondering what else they could do anyway if they found the sludge was building up again besides removing it every now and again if the incontinence returns?
 
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Excessive drinking/urinating could be caused by kidney problems, or dental problems :wave:
 
Oberon had this last week. was just a minor UTI.
Could be bladder infection.
Or, is your hay quite dusty? Is there a pattern to the drinking i.e moulting, drinking after eating dry hay etc?
 
Apart from disease of the kidneys & bladder, Liver problems can cause this symptom.
Please keep in touch with what your vet finds.
Everything crossed for your bunny that it's somethimg simple & easy to treat.
 
Thanks for your replies, vet said the urine test was normal so that would presumably rule out a UTI? I haven't noticed him drinking a lot after eating hay, one lot is posh oxbow hay which I think isn't very dusty, the other hay is from the farm and is a bit dusty. Vet just rang to say they've found a load of sludge in his bladder on the xray which they've removed which apparently is caused by nutrition. Bunny has a pretty good diet though I think, 40g max if he gets to eat half of Science Selective, loads of hay, hand sized portion of spring green, tiny bit of carrot and some basil a day, is any of this high in calcium? I will keep you updated.
 
Thanks for your replies, vet said the urine test was normal so that would presumably rule out a UTI? I haven't noticed him drinking a lot after eating hay, one lot is posh oxbow hay which I think isn't very dusty, the other hay is from the farm and is a bit dusty. Vet just rang to say they've found a load of sludge in his bladder on the xray which they've removed which apparently is caused by nutrition. Bunny has a pretty good diet though I think, 40g max if he gets to eat half of Science Selective, loads of hay, hand sized portion of spring green, tiny bit of carrot and some basil a day, is any of this high in calcium? I will keep you updated.

I believe spring greens can be high in calcium. :)
 
hope he is feeling abit better....also carrots are high in calciums and should only be fed occasionally....upping his fibre ...so obviously hay but you can also add variations like hawthorn and brambles can help.;)
 
Thanks. I think now I will cut out the spring greens, carrot, give him Volvic water instead of tap water which is apparently the lowest calcium water around and possibly change him (gradually) over to Oxbow T pellets from Science Selective. Is basil high calcium, I've not seen it on a list?
 
Also he has a lot of Oxbow orchard grass hay, is this high in calcium? He also eats Timothy hay.

Oxbow hay has a standard level of calcium for grass. the only grass product which is high in calcium is Readdy grass.
High calcium intake is only one aspect of bladder sludge, as I have proved time & time again with my bunny who doesn't drink enough.
They need to drink plenty of fluids & have plenty of excercise too. (I know that bunny is drinking lots now but when the sludge starts to collect in the bladder they sometimes drink more to try to wee it out)
There's lots of info here.
http://www.rabbit.org/health/urolith.html

Also it's a bit unusual for a bunny to have these symptoms with bladder sludge. If you start a new thread called "bladder sludge" in Health you should get a good response.
 
Personally I wouldn't put my bunny through all these tests if they were just drinking/weeing more frequently unless they were in pain or looking ill etc.

My bunny, Ellie started drinking excessively and peeing all over. My vet said it could be kidney problems but checking her blood/urine wasn't very accurate since if she was "on the mend" then nothing would show up in her tests.
It turned out she had spurs on her teeth and because she is so sensitive with her teeth she hadn't been eating properly and lost a lot of weight, fortunately after her dental she made a slow but steady recovery and is now happy as ever but does need regular dentals.

Hope tyhis helps and I hope a solution is found to why your bunny seems unwell.
 
That's a good article. Bunny has always drank quite a lot and he isn't caged and has upstairs to run about and downstairs too when we're in if he feels like being sociable so gets quite a lot of exercise although you know what bunnies are like - they like their rest!
 
The urine test was normal so the vet said they would do other tests and I thought it would be best to get them all out of the way in one day to save having to keep taking him back and getting stressed. He isn't ill, just drinking loads and weeing so much, he was weeing all over himself, I just wanted to find out what was wrong and get him treated and not knowing too much about bunny ill health trusted the vet with the tests he was doing.
 
Spring greens are not high enough in calcium to be avoided because of bladder sludge problems and neither are carrots. Both are on my list of 'low calcium' as recommended by FHB for rabbits with urinary tract problems. I feed both of these to Artie and he has bladder sludge and has had a kidney removed because of kidney stone (renal calcium deposits).

The advice FHB has given me for Artie's diet is to cut out pellets altogether as all pellets are relatively high in calcium (even the ones that say low calcium) compared to vegetables. As has already been mentioned - a high fluid intake is also essential as it will help to flush the calicum out. It's also good to avoid giving a lot of food high in phosphorus. ... If you give too little calcium however there would be implications for bones :? so it's a balancing act.

On my list for low calcium are: green beans, celery, cabbage, broccoli, spouts, parsnips, mangetout, sugar snap peas, apples and carrots.

On a regular basis Artie gets: grass, spring greens, apple, Oxbow orchard grass, meadow hay.
 
Thanks. So much to think about, I'm getting a headache! Plus having two rabbits is harder, how do you keep one away from the pellets, plus the bladder sludge bunny gets a dodgy stomach with too much veg! Since you've made changes has it reduced the sludge problem?
 
Thanks. So much to think about, I'm getting a headache! Plus having two rabbits is harder, how do you keep one away from the pellets, plus the bladder sludge bunny gets a dodgy stomach with too much veg! Since you've made changes has it reduced the sludge problem?

Artie lives solo so at least I don't have all the 'who gets what' issues. It's two and a half years since he had crisis point with the bladder sludge, he had had a lot of stasis episodes that didn't have any background diagnosis and on the occasion in April 2008 I took him to FHB. Artie had never done chalky wee or given any indication of any bladder problem until the day in question when he did a huge chalky wee, he had a bladder infection and there was also blood in the urine. The bladder was so bad that they opened it up to remove all the calcium in it. It's difficult to know how well diet controls the calcium build up as all his x-rays show white for his bladder, it's probable that for some reason not discovered, he doesn't fully empty his bladder and that's why the calcium builds up, so diet is only a part of his treatment. Every six weeks he has has bladder expressed and he is also on Metacam (anti-inflammatory, to reduce chance of infection) and Furosemide (diuretic, to make him wee more and hopefully expell the calcium). *Touches wood* this regime has kept him well and he kept well and very few stasis episodes until July when he had the kidney problems, which are thought to be not related to the bladder sludge anyway.

Apparantly it's not that unusual to see a rabbit's bladder show up as white (ie calcified) on an x-ray but the rabbit to not be presenting with any symptoms, which I suspose is the status Artie is back to with the treatment he's getting.
 
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I'm not surprised you have a headache, :( There's a great deal of new information to understand. Take it slowly a bit at a time.

With 2 bunnies it's OK to have them on the same diet.
Bunnies can actually live healthily to a grand old age without pellet feed at all.
House bunnies need the vit D3 in an eggcupful of pellets daily & to be in outdoor light for an hour a day.
When pellet feed is reduced to an eggcupful, you need to check they're not losing weight, weighing at same time of day about every week. Weight does fluctuate a bit, (poops inside) which is why we weigh at the same time in the middle of their poop cycle.

Of foods which increase fluid intake but aren't too rich, a piece of cucumber is good.
Dry dandelions are fairly high in calcium & to be avoided but fresh dandelions have a lot of fluid, & is A diuretic so make bunny passes more urine. Most sludge bunnies benefit from fresh dandelion leaves & some fresh herbs fed while still wet after a rinse. But that is for next growing season. winter is a difficult time.

My own bunny's main problem is tummy (cow pile syndrome/dysautonomia). (He can't drink enough because his tummy is slow - a throughput problem - not enough room to eat & drink, & is totally intolerant of human veg)
A handfull of hawthorn leaves does wonders to speed up the gut, & blackberry leaves are even better. Both can be foraged in towns & there are loads in the country but the leaves are falling now so you'll need to get some in fast for winter.
ETA It's really painful for humans to pass "sludge" we call it gravel in humans. I expect it's the same for bunnies. Pain slows down the gut too.
what sort of tummy issues does your bunny have with veg?
 
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How is Bunny now? Is his wee unduely chalky? Is he drinking any less?

:oops: I'm so sorry but I've just realised that we didn't answer your original question about the repeat XR.

Incontinence can happen in rabbits with sludge even without infection simply because their bladder is so full of sludge they haven't got much room left for urine. They want to do small wees all the time & have accidents.

TBH I don't understand why your vet wants to do a repeat XR either, because they can usually feel a bladder enlarged by sludge.
I think it's worth taking him for re examination & asking what he hopes to find & whether a repeat XR will alter what they do ie his management?
 
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