ches is struggling again (piggy) *back from the vets*

following on from this thread

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303854

he had his dental on the 4th and was doing well. his meds course ended saturday and today he is struggling to eat some foods again and eating slower.

looks like we're back at the vets again soon then. i'm so down because he was doing well and i'm so scared because of the changes to the tooth roots that his teeth won't ever be right again. and it's not even been two weeks since his dental and it looks like he needs another.

Sorry to hear that Fingers crossed for speedy recovery xx

thanks.

since his course of meds finished he's dropped 25g sunday and another 20g monday aswell.

just been onto the vets to see about extending the course of metacam until our vets back in tomorrow or thursday.

he is interested in food though and i have been hand feeding him which he likes.

maybe his mouth is still tender.

As I know nothign about piggies I can only forward vibes and hugs

vibes and hugs are much appreciated. i'm feeling quite down about it all. we've got an appointment for thursday morning and our usual taxi driver is taking us there and back. just wish my dad or my brother was able to.. but never mind.

ches is able to eat basically everything but hay. he has tiny strands if i break them up for him. so he's been having lots of grass instead and he can eat dried herbs broken into small pieces and he's eating veg ok. again, it has to be in smallish pieces and i feed him extra when maisie isn't looking.. ssshh.

he's not a big drinker anyway so i've been having to get water into him via veg but even before his dental he wasn't dehydrated the vet said so he must get what he needs from veg and grass.

i'm just feeling a bit deflated really. i hope this isn't the start of a long journey to get him back to normal.

sorry to hear he's so off again hugs xx

poppymoon said:

sorry to hear he's so off again hugs xx

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hugs appreciated today. feeling a bit

i'm just going to clean the piggies cage now so i'll have cuddles with them

x

we went to the vets and the good news is that chesneys teeth haven't got worse or anything and he has no ulcers or anything like that..

... but when the vet did his dental ches had alot of swelling and inflammation which is why he had 0.3ml metacam twice a day for ten days. that should have been enough to get rid of all that but it hasn't and chesneys mouth is swollen and inflammed and all round his jaw is aswell, round the tooth roots. so it's a surprise he was eating as much as he was.

he's now on metacam for three weeks. 0.7ml twice a day for seven days, then 0.4ml twice a day for seven days and then 0.2ml twice a day for seven days. i know some people will think these doses high but the vet says it's fine and ches needs that amount as an anti-inflammatory and also for the pain/discomfort he is experiencing when trying to eat hay.

so he's had 0.7ml when we got back and we had lots of cuddles.

he was so good aswell. they always comment how well behaved and laid back he is.

they had to clean food out of his mouth first and i've never seen that before, it looks horrible!

so hopefully when the metacam kicks in ches should start to feel loads better and be eating normally again

hope he feels better soon xxx

(is ches a big piggy? the reason i asked is that when i give eric metacam, i only give him 0.2/0.4ml!)

poppymoon said:

hope he feels better soon xxx

(is ches a big piggy? the reason i asked is that when i give eric metacam, i only give him 0.2/0.4ml!)

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he used to be. but he's 1158g now. i notice all the debates about metacam on the piggy forum mention our vets! they do seem to go with higher doses. i don't know what is best to do.. listen to an exotics vet or info on the net.

there seems to be so many different opinions on metacam aswell and i don't know... :?

i have to admit i am a bit worried about the 0.7ml twice a day for seven days. but i made him repeat the dose and repeat that he did say dog metacam and he did..

i notice on the piggy forum there are was a debate when my vet prescribed 0.6ml twice a day to someones piggy. they do seem to dose much higher than other vets.

x

Hope Chesney is feeling much better soon.

basirascal said:

Hope Chesney is feeling much better soon.

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thank you. he's looking much brighter already.

well ches had 0.7ml at 3pm and ate all his veg a bit after, including the cabbage and coriander he hasn't been able to. then he was eating hay aswell. by 11.30pm he was struggling again and squinting trying to eat hay and he left some veg as he couldn't chew it. so 0.7ml didn't even last 9 hours for him, never mind 12 hours or a whole day etc.

i think me saying dental is making people think it's just spurs or something when he actually had two bad infections, the gaps cleaned out and the back teeth filed and the changes at the tooth roots.

i can see what they vet is saying - 10 days should have cleared it up but instead during that time it hasn't and has got more tender so he's making up the last ten days with a new course of ten days on top, and 0.3ml twice a day wasn't working for ches on the original swelling, so a slightly higher dose for swelling that has gone double the time is not going to do much more, and in the long run he will end up on metacam longer, it will take him longer to get back to normal eating, and by that time his teeth could have gone bad again and then you're risking needing more dental work etc etc..

so i can see what he's saying by getting a complete hold on the swelling etc when it's at it's worse and then reducing as the inflammation reduces. it does make sense.

and seeing ches struggling now is just obvious that even 0.7ml is not really keeping him able to eat without any discomfort or pain.

i think i'm going to go with the vet on this one. he obviously has worked with so many cases over years and years so must know what he's doing. i know all vets do things differently but i know our vet does really upto date training as soon as it becomes available and he travels the world giving lectures on these things aswell - all exotics but mainly reptiles, rabbits, guinea pigs.

he obviously does things differently to other vets but from looking at ches, i think he is right. and he did say ches had really bad infections in two places in his mouth and is classed as having dental disease. if it was a case of some spurs i would agree it's too high but ches has already slowed down considerably on 0.7ml so it's obviously needed in his case. when we got back from the vets i gave him 0.7ml and a bit after he looked so much brighter, he ate more hay than the last week put together, he ate veg he hasn't been able to manage and he wasn't squinting at all.

i know it's one of those subjects with different views but i can only go with what a good vet is saying and what he has seen of chesney and how chesney is behaving as a guide aswell.

eta: sorry if some of that is random, i copied what i put on the piggy forum as i couldn't be bothered typing it all again differently! :lol:

just to reassure everyone who reads this (even if people still don't agree personally) i have double and triple checked with the vet and it is the correct dose.

he said ches had bad swelling and inflammation aswell as two bad infections (tooth roots, dental, infected gaps between teeth) so an extended course was given (0.3ml twice a day for ten days) this should have been enough to get him eating normally again but as soon as he came off that dose he couldn't eat hay again and was in discomfort.

so then he's had that ten days of the inflammation with just the edge taken off, so you'd think 'ok, increase the dose slightly' but then you've got another week nearly of extra inflammation on top of that so you need to bring that down and get 'back to the start' (that's what the higher dose is for) then when you get back there, you increase on what he was on (so 0.3ml to 0.4ml which isn't much more)

but if you just went a bit higher you'd never get it under control and 0.3ml wasn't enough for ches, so 0.4ml wouldn't be either as it's not much more. and that was for the original swelling, and now he has that plus another week of it being untreated.

he also said it doesn't stay in their system long (why he does every 12 hours) and also repeated what he has already told me about metacam and peoples worries about the side effects etc ... the warnings about possible kidney damage have to be given because of the group of meds it belongs to. some other meds in this group have caused problems but metacam itself hasn't but they have to give that warning 'just incase'.

he said he's seen hundreds and hundreds of cases like this and he's assured me it's the correct treatment for chesney.

i hope that makes sense and i know some people will be concerned by that (and even some vets! ) but he's worked at this vets for 24 years and seen many many cases like this he said.

he's also a uni lecturer so all the vets of the future may be like him, be warned! :lol:

i know it's one of those debates where people have different opinions but i know people just have concern for piggies when they hear of these doses their own vet doesn't use.

ches seems absolutely fine. he's much happier and eats hay again after having metacam but even on 0.7ml, by about 8+ hours his eating slows down again and he struggles eating hay and squints. so he must be in quite alot of discomfort with hay and crunchy veg.

i hope that reassures some people. i wouldn't go with this advice if i didn't trust this vet. i wouldn't put ches in any danger if i wasn't sure

hello,
i know your post was a few months ago but i just saw it this morning. my guinea pig monica went to the vets yesterday to have her teeth trimmed because she was in pain and a few were growing into her mouth, they said to give her 0.7ml of the metacam for dogs twice per day. i thought this seemed alot so googled it and found your posts relating to this, anyway i phoned the vet back this morning to check and he ran her weight etc into the computer which then calculates the dose and confirmed that 0.7ml was coming up as the dose to give her but when he worked it out without the computer it should have really only been 0.3ml twice per day and not 0.7ml. he doesnt know why the computer is telling him 0.7ml because all the info he put in is correct put the dose should say 0.3ml. i know its far to late now but i just wanted to let you know that our vets computer calculated it wrong? just incase anyone else in the future has any concerns i just wanted to let them know theres no harm in double checking

vickyc18 said:

hello,
i know your post was a few months ago but i just saw it this morning. my guinea pig monica went to the vets yesterday to have her teeth trimmed because she was in pain and a few were growing into her mouth, they said to give her 0.7ml of the metacam for dogs twice per day. i thought this seemed alot so googled it and found your posts relating to this, anyway i phoned the vet back this morning to check and he ran her weight etc into the computer which then calculates the dose and confirmed that 0.7ml was coming up as the dose to give her but when he worked it out without the computer it should have really only been 0.3ml twice per day and not 0.7ml. he doesnt know why the computer is telling him 0.7ml because all the info he put in is correct put the dose should say 0.3ml. i know its far to late now but i just wanted to let you know that our vets computer calculated it wrong? just incase anyone else in the future has any concerns i just wanted to let them know theres no harm in double checking

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my vets are known for using doses higher than other vets would, however, they are very highly qualified and i trusted them with the dose. 0.7ml twice a day is what ches had as he had a dental and infected gaps between his teeth aswell. he was on that dose for a week, then 0.4ml 2x a day for a week, then 0.2ml 2x a day for a week aswell. he recently had to have his bladder flushed aswell and was on that same 0.7ml dose 2x a day. i trust my vets because they feel that most vets start off low and then if it's not enough then they increase, but by that time the problem could have escalated or new problems caused etc so they go and tackle it head on and start higher and then reduce. it has always been fine for mine and i trust that they know what they are doing. so i wouldn't worry to be honest, even though loads of people will tell you it's too high! but if your vet is a top exotics vet and you trust them then i would go with the dose they say.