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Moulting and Stasis

Pie

Warren Veteran
I am just wondering if anyone has any tips or coping strategy for stasis-buns in molt. And also, if stasis and moulting can be/are linked (?)

I am asking this because I am very worried about Pie. I don't usually say anything on here because there are buns worse-off but her 'episodes' are getting more frequent. I am now especially worried as she is moulting like I have never seen before! :shock: :(
She ate her breakfast and ate the fresh hay I put down for her before leaving for work this morning, but then noticed she was laying down - she does this after she has eaten a 'large' amount but I noticed a not-nice looking poo in the hay.
Unlike Obie who gets the 'necklace' of poos she cannot deal with all the hair and it appeared as though her poos have turned into a slightly gunky, lumpy mulch.

I can't wait to get back home to check on her - luckily OH brother, who lives with us works from home so he can keep an eye on her.
But if anyone knows of anything that could possibly ease her dis-comfort please let me know. Or if you have any theories on the link between stasis and moulting I would be interested in throwing ideas around. I just need some input or ideas/advice.
I wouldn't make a thread and ask if I wasn't overly worried. :(
 
I spoke to my vet about this and I can't remember the details of what he said but he said that he feels that stasis linked to fur ingestion is very rare.

I wonder if it could be more linked to the actual moulting process which I know from thumps takes a lot of energy.
 
My vet said there's a strong possibility that ingested fur causes stasis without it being an obstruction as such. Any fur can irritate the stomach lining - I guess if you look to Nature, the wildy has got it right and humans have distorted that fur type to produce cashies etc and have messed things up! :roll: I think the best thing you can do is to groom as much as possible when they're moulting to reduce the amount they swallow through grooming themselves... It almost makes me wonder whether stasis-prone, hi-mould/fluffy buns should be on low dose metacam when moulting is at its worst, so that if their stomachs do get irritated they don't suffer pain because of it and stop eating, ie take pro-active steps to avoid... Worth asking vet maybe? :?
 
I spoke to my vet about this and I can't remember the details of what he said but he said that he feels that stasis linked to fur ingestion is very rare.

I wonder if it could be more linked to the actual moulting process which I know from thumps takes a lot of energy.

Sorry cross posted... :wave: It's always reassuring when vets disagree with each other! :roll: But the feeling run down your vet mentioned might make a bun less tolerant to any gut irritation, maybe...:?
 
He might've meant that it doesn't cause a blockage as such. I really can't remember the details of what he said which is really annoying :oops:
 
He might've meant that it doesn't cause a blockage as such. I really can't remember the details of what he said which is really annoying :oops:

Aw you could ask next time you're there :wave:

I think mine meant it caused low lev discomfort, to which a) different buns might have varying reactions, just as humans would (eg man flu ~*snigger*) or, the same bun might react more strongly at some times than at others, eg if under the weather anyway because of moulting, for instance.

There's a lot of stasis from non-defined causes and I think she felt it was a possibility with more of those than is realised. Just wondering whether pre-emptive matacam strike is possible, under vet supervision and for vulnerable buns only.... :?
 
It's basically more the fact that when a bun has to moult, they need an IMMENSE (i believe ~40-60% more) amount of energy to do it.

Take for example Ginger;

She's actually genetically flawed, has RTI issues we can't fix and kidneys that might as well not be in her.

This all means she has to eat A LOT more than your regular bun to maintain her own weight and drink A LOT more than your regular bun to keep the toxins out of her body.

However, occasionally she gets it wrong and ends up with a GI slowdown.

Basically, the stasis (by my understanding) means that if bun for any reason struggles to get everything he/she needs to moult, the moult may stop (as Ginger's had, for many months) but the issue of getting enough in, but not being able to, may lead to a pain reflex, from perhaps overheating etc etc.

I'm no good at explaining this, but it all makes sense in my head :lol:
 
I seem to so far be able to give Smudge metacam and metaclop as soon as the symptoms show and that staves off any full on stasis episode. TBH with Smudge I think he's just so easily spooked anything can set him off. It doesn't seem to always tally up with times of moulting.

But that doesn't help Pie :oops:
 
It almost makes me wonder whether stasis-prone, hi-mould/fluffy buns should be on low dose metacam when moulting is at its worst, so that if their stomachs do get irritated they don't suffer pain because of it and stop eating, ie take pro-active steps to avoid... Worth asking vet maybe? :?

This may be a good idea to put forward to my vet for Pie. I knew Obie was feelign abit 'under the weather' but I can tell poor Pie is really starting to strugle.
I make sure her water intake is up - soaking her pellets and sprinkling her dried herbs with water etc.
I can tell you the Infacol has helped me many times this weekend!

Thing is, I know Pie has her deformed Cecum and part of the intestine so am wondering if the pain relief (maybe twinned with syringing tepid wateronce an evening) will help her enough so she doesn't stop eating or become as round and hard as a leather football.

ETA: I have even had to add her pro-biotic into her water... I have got on top of her diet (although we are still averaging 1 stasis episode every 10 days or so) but she wnet down hill so quickly this weekend and then popped back up again :roll:
Thing is she is currently sitting at 1.47kgs but she is ever so boney still :( And what foods are good for helping upping her engery levels (safely)?
 
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The problem is that rabbit food by definition is low calory and high fibre and I've asked my vet several times about how to get round this. She's adamant about not using porridge oats or anything that rabbits are designed to eat and could only suggest more pellets.:?

My own strategy would be to feed her foods in a certain order. When she's really hungry give her the least favourite part of the meal first and once she's full up and refusing more then give the food she's fondest off eg a little carrot. It's like children finishing up their main before they're allowed dessert - if you give the dessert first they won't eat main, but once they've safely eaten the main they can still magically find room for chocolate icecream! ;)
But rabbits are designed to be grazers rather than eating big meals so perhaps increase the number of feeds you give during the day as well if she needs to put weight on?
 
The problem is that rabbit food by definition is low calory and high fibre and I've asked my vet several times about how to get round this. She's adamant about not using porridge oats or anything that rabbits are designed to eat and could only suggest more pellets.:?

My own strategy would be to feed her foods in a certain order. When she's really hungry give her the least favourite part of the meal first and once she's full up and refusing more then give the food she's fondest off eg a little carrot. It's like children finishing up their main before they're allowed dessert - if you give the dessert first they won't eat main, but once they've safely eaten the main they can still magically find room for chocolate icecream! ;)
But rabbits are designed to be grazers rather than eating big meals so perhaps increase the number of feeds you give during the day as well if she needs to put weight on?

Hmm yea, maybe smaller meals (although at the moment she is eating out of one of those small creme brulee dishes!).
Due to her interstinal/cesum problem she is on a VERY restricted diet - Hay (meadow), coltefoot, burns meadow mix, plantain, burns pellets (she only has 10 a day - anymore sends her digestive system 'over the edge'). Also the only veg she can safely stomach is sring greens and fresh mint and basil.
So this is why it's so difficult. Because her diet HAS to be so restricted.

But I think little and often will be better for her - maybe this will help her energy levels too(?) so rather than BANG loads of food and put body into digestion overdrive. Smaller meals - like 3 in the afternoon/evening rather than one?

Just bouncing ideas around here..
 
In the wild they'd be grazing constantly so as many small meals as you could manage would be best; check with your vet though? :wave:

ETA Also bear in mind that in the wild they'd eat most in the early morning and evening so you may want to replicate that pattern of rest post-lunch too but still slot in as many small feeds as poss within that framework...
 
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Regarding the correlation between stasis and moulting. I don't have the answer.

But I have 2 buns who never go into stasis and 2 mother and son who do.
The only difference (and I have spent a fortune at the vets including poo analysi)
is that the 2 who go into stasis groom themselfs regularly where as the other 2 only keep their bums, feet and ears clean.
Since I have started to gently brush the 2 who do go into stasis it has become a lot better.

Also lots of running around helps, when it is hot and they run around less they get more stasis.
 
Just thought I'd pass on my experience of stasis during moulting.....

I've had both Daisy and Poppy in stasis recently, both during a fairly heavy moult. Poppy was in stasis a couple of weeks ago and recovered, but is currently having a second episode since Tuesday of this week (she is still moulting). :(

My vet is very good with rabbits and has agreed that it could be that the physical stress of the moulting process is somehow upsetting my girls, so they have now been prescribed a 'maintenance' dose of Zantac to be given while they are actually moulting to help keep their guts moving.

My vets don't prescribe metacam for tummy problems as it can have a tendency to irritate the stomach (hence the reason that it must be given with food). It's just a precaution as they don't want to risk irritating an already sore/irritated gut. Poppy, Daisy and Bentley (my one-eyed conti who some of you may remember had extremely serious stasis and was very very bloated) have all been given injectable Vetergesic to help with the pain and discomfort. It's a balancing act with the dose as a too high dose of Vetergesic can have the effect of slowing the gut down. Poppy has been on 0.2ml and that has worked well in combination with the other gut stimulants.

Bentley, Poppy and Daisy have all been given the same regime of medication:

Emeprid (the new version of metaclopramide)
Zantac
Cisapride (gut stimulant)
Semethicone (Wind-eze)
Vetergesic
Subcut fluids

I now dread moults. :(
 
Regarding the correlation between stasis and moulting. I don't have the answer.

But I have 2 buns who never go into stasis and 2 mother and son who do.
The only difference (and I have spent a fortune at the vets including poo analysi)
is that the 2 who go into stasis groom themselfs regularly where as the other 2 only keep their bums, feet and ears clean.
Since I have started to gently brush the 2 who do go into stasis it has become a lot better.

Also lots of running around helps, when it is hot and they run around less they get more stasis.

Really helpful - thank you! :wave: The only two non-obvious statis cases I have had were Mulberry and Merlin who are my heaviest moulters out of the whole group...
 
Just thought I'd pass on my experience of stasis during moulting.....

I've had both Daisy and Poppy in stasis recently, both during a fairly heavy moult. Poppy was in stasis a couple of weeks ago and recovered, but is currently having a second episode since Tuesday of this week (she is still moulting). :(

My vet is very good with rabbits and has agreed that it could be that the physical stress of the moulting process is somehow upsetting my girls, so they have now been prescribed a 'maintenance' dose of Zantac to be given while they are actually moulting to help keep their guts moving.

My vets don't prescribe metacam for tummy problems as it can have a tendency to irritate the stomach (hence the reason that it must be given with food). It's just a precaution as they don't want to risk irritating an already sore/irritated gut. Poppy, Daisy and Bentley (my one-eyed conti who some of you may remember had extremely serious stasis and was very very bloated) have all been given injectable Vetergesic to help with the pain and discomfort. It's a balancing act with the dose as a too high dose of Vetergesic can have the effect of slowing the gut down. Poppy has been on 0.2ml and that has worked well in combination with the other gut stimulants.

Bentley, Poppy and Daisy have all been given the same regime of medication:

Emeprid (the new version of metaclopramide)
Zantac
Cisapride (gut stimulant)
Semethicone (Wind-eze)
Vetergesic
Subcut fluids

I now dread moults. :(

Thanks for this.
I shall ask my vet when I take Pie next weekend for her VHD - another thing I am absoluetly dreading with her being the way she is at the moment.

My poor girlie is really suffering at the moment so I will try anything to help ease it. And I too, now dread "the big moult" every year - this year has been her worst yet. I just find she isn't passing the hair like Oberon did...That is what is worrying me. :(
 
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