Wild Rabbit Found Paralysed Back Legs. Vet No help. Confused.

Hello, my business partner and I run a small self-funded experimental smallholding in Devon (commercial, but protective/cruelty free to animals). We love and have general experience with most animals, but little experience in professional care of rabbits….

So - we have a private concern with a wild rabbit I am fostering and have had little help from the vet (£89+ medications - They advised putting her down even though she is eating & drinking and very responsive to my care). So far she has responded better than expected, but frustratingly vacillated every few days between hugely improved and very poorly. On sunday - BIG SURPRISE - she suddenly gave birth to 4 kits! Sadly all have died, but she is coping well. From research on internet, I believe she may have encephalitozoon cuniculi, but also that it maybe it is an infected spine: discospondylitis(??). Not sure. She has only paralysis, no head shakes or bending/imbalance (EC), but then also seems to not have pain in spine (discopondylitis) but does appear to have internal organ or muscular pain. She moves her feet occasionally, but totally unable to walk… I am confused of what to do and don't understand all of what is said here or other sites on net.

QUESTIONS
-Confused: If it is E Cuniculi and I give her 28 days Panacure, is this in view of curing her (I hope), or just relieving the symptoms (some people saying it comes back several times? And some pets are on Panacure rest of life??)

- Confused: Am I reinfecting her each day + possibly risking infecting all our other farm animals, pets, family & myself!!!?… Because being indoors, or left alone long periods apart from night makes her very anxious and fearful + real danger of foxes here. I keep her out on grass under movable hutch day and inside our kitchen in small straw carrier with bed during night. Also hold her & also carrying her with us to different sites all over our farm(!) for her reassurance & nutrition of varied wild grazing during day. So now if it's "EC" I am REALLY WORRIED I have put entire farm in danger.

- If it is discopondylitis is that curable? (think I read 6 weeks of Baytril... is that safe!?)

- How long can I give Metacam (on 3 drops per day of dog formula)? Vet said 5 days. Some here seem to give 28+ days during Panacure?

- How long can I give Baytril if "EC" or if spinal infection? (on .4 ml injectable) - vet says "it depends, call back in few days".

- myxomotosis vaccination: can I give this & when ?

I realise no one here is giving "medical advise". I just don't trust the vet any more to know what is best - she would be dead by now if I did. Also maybe her babies would be alive if I had trusted my own intuition. Please could anyone here just give some practical advice/experience, or anecdotal information of what has happened to their rabbits. Prunella and I would be very grateful. She is a dear little being and although she remains fearful of others and the cats, she trusts me so much that I really don't want to let her down. Please Help.
(Full Details below). Warm wishes and thanks in advance…

BACKGROUND:
10 nights ago we thought we heard fox near our waterfowl enclosure. Fox(?) ran off, but nearby we found what seemed to be a young rabbit moving oddly, only using its forearms to slowly drag rest of body. Otherwise seemed strangely healthy, having no visible damage and very alert - proved by the blood curdling shrieks she let off and lots of scratches from her front paws. We took her up to house and have been trying to treat her since.

DAY 1-2 - Calm, but very alert. Drinking, but not sure how much eating. Some fleas on ears & body.

DAY 2 - Diarrhoea, seeming agitated & less alert. Doesn't seem in pain. Moving both feet herself in gentle stretching motion when held on back, or side & tightening toes if I grasp them - otherwise totally unable to use legs/feer (this continues till today).

DAY 3 - Took her to vet. Vet said she was a HARE. Gave x-ray: said no sign of injury. Vaguely explained it looked like her vertebra "might" be a bit narrower at one point and "maybe" squeezing spinal cord. A tiny skinny worm was seen in stool. Also she had gastritis and "maybe" she her intestines are not formed properly. "She is too sick to deal with all the problems for such a small animal". Advised to put her down…. I refused. Requested antibiotics, anti-inflammatory & wormer. Took her home, put her on different wild meadow grass. Very stressed from vets & drive. Calmed down and suddenly eating loads (1st time in front of me).

Day 4 - MUCH BETTER, EATING LOADS. When I pick her up URINE comes gushing out in huge amount thick & with cream coloured sediment (and same until yesterday). Oral Baytril 1ml, 1x day 5 more days. Eats soft stools 1st time (some days eats enthusiastically, some days refuses. Some days licking urine).

DAY 5/6 - Still well, but seems possibly in some discomfort (heavier breathing/ less bright). Vet advises 3 drops Metacam (dog) is OK for up to 5 more days. Instant improvement.

DAY 7 - Finally seems turning corner. I even take chance to name her: "Prunella" in honour of 1st thing she ate after near miss at vet's… Suddenly! Blood and lots creamy discharge starts coming out of vagina. 4 babies pop out (vet had no idea pregnant, but says X-rays and meds were no danger)!! We are concerned, because babies are blind and bald - not like baby hares. Vet confirms she's "probably" a rabbit actually. Eats 3 afterbirths. Last kit is smaller, dies a few minutes after birth. Rest full of life - try to suckle, seems to be no milk. Advised best to leave her alone in quiet place & hope for best. Safe to give antibiotics. Put family into large nest box in quiet stable.

DAY 8 - The strongest looking baby found dead few inches away from Prunella - last 2 wriggling around and squeaking. Prunella seems daunted and confused. Not herself, hiding face under hay, laboured breathing a bit. Not sure, I stop drugs as precaution. I don't touch or move Prunella or babies from nest today.

DAY 9 - Prunella seems very unwell. Totally stopped eating, not interested in drinking much. Vacant stare. Resume Baytril (injectable .4ml this time) and 3 drops Metacam. No improvement. Baby's look weak. Take Prunella outside for air and sun. Only eating small bits vegetation - looks confused and weak, prefers to be held. Devours 1 late coming afterbirth. Both babies die in few hours. Put Prunella back into house in garden soon after last death. Still weak/timid, but miraculously starts eating, drinking immediately.

DAY 10 - Seems brighter today. Eating better, but up and down. On close observation seems like she is having muscle spasms or some other pains which come & go.

***I'm sorry for such a looooong entry. Hope it's not a problem. Thought best to explain full story to give fullest picture… Again I've already tried professional medical route and phoned another senior vet twice for 2nd opinions without much guidance. Hoping for practical experience & advice someone who's been through similar. Thank you so much if any one can help.

I have to admit my gut instinct would be to have her put to sleep, it sounds very like a spinal injury and an adult wild rabbit will struggle with captivity- and she will have to remain captive due to her condition.
If you decide to try and save her, I would ask the bet for a steriod injection assuming it is safe after birth (know nothing about breeding rabbits), steroids are not great to use in rabbits but it will help reduce inflammation around the spine, she would need to be off metacam before it us uses though. Is she able to pee herself, if you an having to express her it is really not a good sign. E.c. is generally no risk to healthy people or other species of animals, and a course of panacur will do her no harm. Does she have deep pain sensation, again if this is missing the prognosis is not good. I would not put her outside or move her too much, but keep her still, quiet and contained, if she has damaged her spine movement will only increase the healing time.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hi, I'm really sorry to hear that this little bunny is so poorly and think you are doing an amazing job of trying to give her a fighting chance, although I cant comment either way about the put to sleep issue. I'm not knowledgeable to give you any advice but I found this the other day and wonder if it contains any helpful information for you:

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

Its been produced for the Rabbit Welfare Association and Fund so is reliable information. You could contact them in the morning for advice on what to do, or even if they can recommend a rabbit-savvy vet. Or perhaps someone on here may be able to suggest one for you.

I'm sorry I cant offer any other advice right now, but there are several members on here who have good rabbit health knowledge who may be able to provide more knowledge/info than I can. Vibes for the bunny.

My first assumption with a wild rabbit would be a physical injury to the spine.

I'm not sure how prevalent EC is in the wild population, the information you're looking at is aimed at pets. I would have expected that if a wild rabbit did have EC which often has gradual subtle effect they would be picked off before getting to this stage.

I wonder whether getting a second opinion on the xray from a rabbit expert might help. Trama seems the most likely reason, in which case cage rest to limit movement and painkiller would be the best option.

I think a lot of the up/down you are seeing is related to the stress of first being captive and then giving birth rather than symptoms of anything.

My advice would be to find a rabbit specialist and get a second opinion. Surely kits would show up on the x ray. Did you see it? The vet sounds as if they don't know a lot about rabbits. Rabbits are actually classed as exotic vets so perhaps you could put a post up on rabbit chat to see if anyone know a rabbit specialist near you.

Or have a look here: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=302366

Once you have a proper diagnosis then I think you can make a better decision. :wave:

Reply to Questions & Comments about Prunella

Hello there. Thanks everyone for kind replies and links so far:

X-RAYs - I didn't see x-ray. Vet said she could not see any suggestion of trauma, but area of vertebra might be tight on spinal cord (was later told same by more senior vet that said he saw x-ray) Vet was very vague and uncertain… keeping in mind she thought Prunella was a hare and no one at surgery noticed Pruney was pregnant, it's hard to take any of what they said seriously and I guess it could go either way on everything. Vet said her belly looked bloated and her intestines looked funny like they may be malformed "or something like that"… Malformed intestines, didn't seem possible to me since she was of a good weight and age. Her eating and pooing has been fine as far as I can see. She got diarrhoea after a few days not eating her faeces (I didn't know about that then and she can't turn around to get them), but all has been fine since. I am guessing the "oddly formed intestines" were the kits inside of her, or the kits pushing on her intestines. I really can't imagine how an experienced small animal vet(s) could miss that an animal was in advanced pregnancy, so I will probably look for a vet experienced in exotics.

STEROIDS/ METACAM
I understand about danger of mixing steroid with metacam, but is it that steroid (I assume? long acting?) is hoped to shrink more effectively and/or safely? Metacam really seems to help her mood. She has always taken the meds easily, but even tried to get more Metacam today, surprised me as I've always had a hard time getting other types of animal to take it..

STRESS - The odd thing is, although she has had ALOT to be stressed about, apart from the actual stress events (initial rescue, babies and vet visit) she seems remarkably calm and calms down very quickly after events. As long we are with her, she is unbelievably perky. She's even fine with being bathed and is most relaxed if I'm right there. I know that she is very fearful because she can't walk, but she behaves more like a pet rabbit than a lot of domesticated ones I've seen and seems to trust me totally.

DEEP PAIN SENSATION - Vet said she had this, but my understanding from vet was that was a bad sign(?)… Basically: She squeezed centre of Prunella's foot between thumb & forefinger - Prunella wiggled foot a bit.

WEE WEE: She goes by herself sometimes and other times I pick her up and wee comes gushing out. (maybe 50-50 time)… She poos on her own and flexes sphincter muscle a bit. But I do have to give her the soft ones to eat. She tries her best to clean her self, but has great difficulty. She is wet often and I need to bath her.

LENGTH OF TIME - Oh Ok thanks Tamsin. My understanding is either disease could come on quickly, didn't realise it is more gradual. It seems certain that the full paralysis at least came on suddenly. She was quite good weight and had no friction marks from dragging feet e.g. Also we have a fox problem at moment, so probably she wouldn't have survived as you say if it had been coming a long while.

…I can imagine this all sounds a bit fantastical from someone else reading it - you know she's even happy to take medicine and everything... I can only say that although I would always make sure there wasn't any other option before putting any animal down, we have too many animals to care for and love to be unrealistic, so I really can't afford the extra time on wishful thinking... At least I hope I'm not deluding myself (and I feel pretty certain she is not in horrible pain or depressed etc.). She is so unusual, she really deserves the best chance.

Anyway, thanks again to you all for taking the time to help... If anyone else with experience of wild rabbits or either of the two diseases can post any additional info I and would be very grateful - x

Although some EC symptoms can seem to come on suddenly, I think in a lot of cases we probably miss subtle things in pet bunnies as they have little effect whereas a slight loss of function in a wild rabbit that is constantly competing for food and to avoid predators is much more likely to result in them being picked off.

I tend to agree, if the vet couldn't ID pregnancy from the xray that does seem a bit worrying!

If she's happy to take the meds treating for EC anyway is cheap and easy so you might as well. You can do a blood test for it but then you have to wait for the results.

Thanks for paper on E. cuniculi Helga

Hi Helgalush :wave:

helgalush said:

Hi, I'm really sorry to hear that this little bunny is so poorly and think you are doing an amazing job of trying to give her a fighting chance, although I cant comment either way about the put to sleep issue. I'm not knowledgeable to give you any advice but I found this the other day and wonder if it contains any helpful information for you:

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

Its been produced for the Rabbit Welfare Association and Fund so is reliable information.

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That PAPER ON E. cuniculi is much more informative than other information I read, so thanks for posting that ... Cleared up some of my confusion & sets my mind at rest quite a bit. BUUUUT IT DIDN'T SAY MUCH ABOUT OTHER SPECIES OF ANIMALS GETTING IT. I really hope I haven't screwed up ; (.


On a brighter note, little Prunella is still stable: eating, drinking, reasonably alert and oddly affectionate. Still weak, but trying. I am waiting on Panacur to arrive and plan on giving the 28 days. Still on Baytril and Metacam daily. Not sure about steroid, waiting on finding new specialist vet. Thanks to those interested.

Can hares even contract EC? I don't know if they're different enough to rabbits in that respect - they don't get myxo, do they, so it might be that EC is species-specific.

To be perfectly honest with you, it doesn't sound like EC to me in any case, it sounds more like trauma. If a rabbit has been screaming, that is an indication of absolute terror or agonising pain - not something that you would find with EC, and much more likely to be due to trauma. Coupled with the suggestion of some kind of injury on the x-ray, this makes far more sense to me. But it does sound as if a second opinion might not be a bad idea, especially if they couldn't identify a pregnancy from an x-ray (I guess it depends on whether they actually x-rayed that area).

How far are you from here - an exotics referral centre: http://www.highcroftvetreferrals.co.uk/exotic-species-team

I don't know about the others, but Richard Saunders there is an excellent bunny vet and is very experienced. You may find that they would be a very good source of information and a trustworthy opinion.

Good luck xxx

As others have said...it seems more like injury than EC.

If she co-operates with meds, I'd say that she either isn't wild (is there any chance she could be a domestic rabbit?) or she is so poorly that she can't fight it. I have 2 hand-reared wild rabbits and trying to hold them down to get meds into them is almost impossible.

Good luck and I hope Prunella makes a recovery

Tamsin said:

My first assumption with a wild rabbit would be a physical injury to the spine.

I'm not sure how prevalent EC is in the wild population, the information you're looking at is aimed at pets. I would have expected that if a wild rabbit did have EC which often has gradual subtle effect they would be picked off before getting to this stage.

I wonder whether getting a second opinion on the xray from a rabbit expert might help. Trama seems the most likely reason, in which case cage rest to limit movement and painkiller would be the best option.

I think a lot of the up/down you are seeing is related to the stress of first being captive and then giving birth rather than symptoms of anything.

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I would totally agree with this

I would also suggest asking for a real rabbit specialist (I am afraid your vet sounds pretty bad as far as rabbit knowledge is concerned) to look at her before making a decision - although stress may be a real problem here - wild buns do get very stressed unless hand reared (not there are exceptions)

Just re read your other note about her not getting that stressed - if so there is great hope IF you can get her to someone with rabbit knowledge instead of your current vet (dont feel bad about this - most people do not realise how little the average vet knows about rabbits until they have a problem such as yours and take a rabbit to their normal vet!

Try posting a thread asking for rabbity vets in your area

01626 367972
Ian Sayers at Abbotskerswell exotic vet.hes ace,but I have a feeling the animal will be PTS.

Wildlife place in Newton Abbot..Devon Wildlife Hospital 01626 324830
mob 07731552909.

Both folk will decide whats best.Ian will want paying!!

smart rabbit

I haven't found the vet yet - although I had a mention that one member knew someone very good. I'm in North Devon, it would be a relief to find someone local as the best vets for our other animals are all spread out and it's difficult. So please if anyone knows someone in North Devon that s exceptional please message or post... It took ages to find a great poultry vet who wouldn't suggest putting-down in the first sentence, now I have 2 excellent ones and more offers :lol:

I usually have same experience with what many are saying about wild rabbits/animals not being able to hold them down for meds. (Hehh forget wild animals - it's been rare that I've ever had a domesticated animal that will take medicine quietly - all ours spoiled and sheltered from arrival as I'm sure every one else's here are)... And also see the point with what a lot of you are saying it is as well as physical trauma as well as fear/trauma being a factor. I know too well wild animals can die of shock. I'm actually hoping that it is trauma because she's so relaxed now that I feel she will get better if this is the case rather than a genetic disorder the not-so-rabbit-friendly vet guessed. Prunella is surely weaker since the birthing at the weekend, but I am certain it's not that she just can't muster the energy to protest, or is too sick to know whats happening - screamed her head off when she saw our nosey cat snooping around 1st day and she's still cautious enough to cower and try to hide if she hears next door farm's dog. Also she can differentiate people, being less relaxed around strangers. So I think safe to say if she were in pain or fear she would protest when I touched her. Maybe I'm just one of those pushy mother's thinking my "kid" is the best, because I think she's just smart and figured out pretty quickly she needs help and that she's safe here - So in that way, why waste the energy fighting if she's going to get lots of fresh food and a warm bed. (someone should tell that to all my ducks and alpacas).

@abbymarysmokey I'm kind-of beginning to wonder if she was already rescued as a kit and released (although with any of the surrounding farmers I know she'd more than likely have ended up as part of a wee bunny dinner than being rescued)... She always inches closer to have her face rubbed! (a lot of energy for her to move) and puts her face on your neck if you're holding her. As a child I had several wild bunnies from some neighbours lawn mower accident (ugh) which we later released - so this is only thing I can think of (apart from her just being exceptionally intelligent). If she does have EC maybe she got it from being exposed to domesticated animals during a rescue??

I now thing maybe it is indeed a spinal injury since a lot of people here are saying that (and honestly that's what I figured it was when I found her before reading anything or taking to vet - who said it's not an injury, but a genetic spinal disorder).

DOES ANYONE HAVE ONE THAT GOT BETTER FROM SOMETHING LIKE THIS??? I read a few posts that said back injury which is so common can heal in time? IS THIS WISHFUL THINKING?

A fox had been stalking her the night we found her up and she let off a deafening scream when I picked her up, but it was after a couple seconds, so I'm supposing that was fear, not pain, but maybe I'm wrong. She certainly doesn't act like she has pain in back/pelvis and seems to like having both rubbed. I've spent a lot of time with her past few days and it seems almost like she has ongoing intermittent pain - spasms maybe. She will be relaxed eating and suddenly struggles to sit up and freezes with a vacant look/look of pain in face. After a couple minutes (almost like she's coming out of a trance) her body goes soft and instantly picks up eating again.

Anyway blabber, blabber, blabber SORRY, can't seem to keep these entries short. Let you all know after a new vet sees her. :wave: Kissses again to you all and thanks for taking time to help.

Oh thank you Yvette. :wave: I didn't see the information. I hop they won't recommend put down, but I will do what's right. x

utopiaTVBH said:

Oh thank you Yvette. :wave: I didn't see the information. x

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It maybe a bit far......:shock:
Hope you get the bunny seen to..at your insistence.xx

Santa said:

Can hares even contract EC?

How far are you from here - an exotics referral centre: http://www.highcroftvetreferrals.co.uk/exotic-species-team

I don't know about the others, but Richard Saunders there is an excellent bunny vet and is very experienced. You may find that they would be a very good source of information and a trustworthy opinion.

Good luck xxx

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Thank you for post Santa, Unfortunately highcroft is 2.5+ hrs away.

(*Vet only thought she was a hare - It was realised later that Prunella is a rabbit.)

Ian Sayers used to work with Richard Saunders.Just for info.

If she can actually feel her hind area and legs then it is unlikely to be a complete spinal break - and if she is not in complete agony then not a sciatic nerve type of thing either (I have a bun sadly die from pain after that happened despite everything we could do).


It may be that the area is swollen and that metacam (anti inflamatory) and other pain relief will help until it has settled down.

Only xrays will tell (and poss CT scan but these are very very expensive).

If she can feel and wee etc then PTS might be too soon and personally I would wait it out for a few weeks to see if there is any recovery IF she is not in pain or too much stress.

However a good vet needs to be seen asap.