[EDIT 25/07/2011] Sneezing issue?

Hi. I have noticed that one of my rabbits has been doing different colour poop than usual. The others have been doing golden coloured poop but this one is doing darker poops although there are golden bits in them. I am a little concerned as does this mean there is something wrong? He is still eating hay and i did give him curly kale but i am starting to think maybe it was that which caused the poop colour change? sometimes the other rabbits have darker poops when they have greens. I did read somewhere that kale or curly kale have high vitamin A so do you think that may have something to do with it? Is curly kale alright for rabbits to have? I did read about it and there are conflicting views.

He has dental issues with his front teeth if that is anything to do with it but we only just took him last tuesday for his teeth to be filed. He does sometimes eat a little less when he comes back from the vet but after a few days he is usually fine. He has been off his pellets and rabbit mix, eaten some but not his usual amount but he has been eating a lot more hay and i have checked if he has pooped and he definitely has. There were two (for lack of a better word) piles of a lot of poop that were not there when i checked last night.

Another question i have is, if a rabbit does one really wet poop that is sticky and looks like diarrhoea and then doesn't do anymore and they go back to normal round poops does that indicate any illness or is that normal?

As long as the poops are still a good size and crumbly/fibrous, rather than small and rock hard, I wouldn't be overly concerned. It's quite common for poops to vary in colour depending on what the bunny concerned has eaten and poops don't have to be golden to be healthy.

Kale is quite high in calcium and opinions vary on feeding it, but I tend to take the view that everything is fine in moderation. If you find that your bunny gets very chalky white wee though, you may want to cut back on the calcium-rich foods a little.

Scrufox86 said:

Another question i have is, if a rabbit does one really wet poop that is sticky and looks like diarrhoea and then doesn't do anymore and they go back to normal round poops does that indicate any illness or is that normal?

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When you say wet poop was it caecotrophs or part of a caecotroph or a wetter normal dropping? :wave: Either in isolation does not necessarily indicated disease/illness at all, a transient dysbiosis is more likely and very common from a temporary slow down for whatever reason, most commonly diet, stress or pain. It's not exactly normal but not really abnormal either as very common if you catch my drift.

Poppy bunny often has the odd softer dropping or mild dysbiosis from time to time but she is just prone to dysbiosis as sadly some bunnies are. Hay hay and more hay is the key. :wave:

We usually only give the rabbits curly kale once a week. Parsley either once or twice a week and carrots every few days. Rarely we give them a small slice of pear. They always get hay. I have been giving some pets at home hay with some marigold hay (from pets at home) but i don't think it is that. Also alfalfa hay has been given a few times (small amount and every few days). I did read that alfalfa hay may be too rich? The thing is the vets have told us that alfalfa hay is alright in moderation so there are some conflicting views there.

The poops are like the normal golden colour ones just dark with golden bits in. I am still worried something else may be wrong but he is doing poops so maybe i am being paranoid. I suppose it is because we have lost two rabbits this year already (different issues) and another has very bad molar problems and doesn't have long to live. I feel like i've been in a constant state of grief since January (first rabbit passed away, was found dead in our indoor cage after ongoing illness from last June) then June this year we lost one we had only taken on three months earlier from someone who could no longer look after her. It was suspected brain parasite which the vets never specified but was likely E.Cuniculi.

I am looking out for signs of E.Cuniculi and panicked about the poop being different but it seems to be slowly changing back to the golden colour which could mean i fed him too much curly kale? I recall another of our rabbits did get sort of diarrhoea poops last year but they were sticky so not fully liquidy and i thought back then it may be she had eaten too much greens. I stopped giving greens for a few days and the poops returned to normal.

Carrot is quite sugary, I can't give it to Mini or she repays me with those dysbiosis poops.

My bunny wouldn't touch hay with a barge pole and his poo was practically black! Curly kale was his favourite (we always knew if he was poorly if he wouldn't eat his kale). Perhaps the iodine in it can make poo darker?

prettylupin said:

When you say wet poop was it caecotrophs or part of a caecotroph or a wetter normal dropping? :wave: Either in isolation does not necessarily indicated disease/illness at all, a transient dysbiosis is more likely and very common from a temporary slow down for whatever reason, most commonly diet, stress or pain. It's not exactly normal but not really abnormal either as very common if you catch my drift.

Poppy bunny often has the odd softer dropping or mild dysbiosis from time to time but she is just prone to dysbiosis as sadly some bunnies are. Hay hay and more hay is the key. :wave:

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It was not the caecotrophs. I know what they look like and this was more soft and like a blob. I removed it as quickly as i could and i thought there'd be more but no more were seen after that. I don't know what dysbiosis is? Is it something to do with the gut?

Mini does what looks like it's trying to be a cecotrophs but looks more like a cow pat. Not completely liquid (if you see almost water types poops that is a vet trip asap) but sticky, gooey and usually all mushed into her fur round her bottom.

Scrufox86 said:

It was not the caecotrophs. I know what they look like and this was more soft and like a blob. I removed it as quickly as i could and i thought there'd be more but no more were seen after that. I don't know what dysbiosis is? Is it something to do with the gut?

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It sounds like a malformed caecotroph to me and indicates a transient dysbiosis - of the caecum (portion of the lower intestine yes). This article may help you:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=3012&S=1&SourceID=43

As for Kale, I never feed it as it caused an acute sludge and pain on urination in my rabbit Nino.

prettylupin said:

When you say wet poop was it caecotrophs or part of a caecotroph or a wetter normal dropping? :wave: Either in isolation does not necessarily indicated disease/illness at all, a transient dysbiosis is more likely and very common from a temporary slow down for whatever reason, most commonly diet, stress or pain. It's not exactly normal but not really abnormal either as very common if you catch my drift.

Poppy bunny often has the odd softer dropping or mild dysbiosis from time to time but she is just prone to dysbiosis as sadly some bunnies are. Hay hay and more hay is the key. :wave:

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Can i just ask how long it takes your rabbit to recover from the dysbiosis?

Scrufox86 said:

Can i just ask how long it takes your rabbit to recover from the dysbiosis?

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:lol: Sorry, but that really IS the million dollar question. Some never do i'm afraid if they are particularly sensitive. There is a member on here who's bun now has a hay only diet and I mean just hay, nothing else, with the support of her exotic vet, this is a long term solution for Twinkle as sadly reintroduction once the caecum had apparently stabilised was unsucessful. However, she is thriving on it. If you look at stories and photos and look for the thread Twinkle, Twinkle, my little star by member Fluffiebunnie you will see :wave:

Poppy took about 3 months of just hay only for the sticky caec stains on her bedding to disappear completely, she is able to eat other things now in moderation, but all have to be wild rabbit plants/grass/etc. Any addition into her diet of shop bought veg or even homegrown can set her dysbiosis off again. I control her diet with the odd very minor relapse but nothing as severe as she was when we adopted her, she was a mess.

My other bun, who passed away recently, also arrived with me with an acute dysbiosis but for him it took only 6 weeks of hay only, then gradual reintroduction and he could eat anything from shop bought stuff, cabbages, fruit etc.

In the lucky buns restabilisation of the caecal flora means that then any imbalance, if minor, can be tolerated and dealt with... hence resuming a normal diet is possible. However, both my buns had their pellet feed withdrawn for good from day 1 and thrived without it. I have found from other owners I have advised that the most successful withdrawl is that of the pelleted feed simply because it is so high in carbohydrates and really does play havoc with the caecal flora. However, poorly buns, dental buns, elderly buns and any bun unable to maintain weight on a hay only diet LONG TERM may need a small portion of pelleted feed if necessary. Provided your bun eats hay well and vigorously a 6 wk course of hay only will cause no long term lasting side effects That said, it doesn't sound to me like your bunny is anything like as in need of such drastic dietary changes. My two arrived here doing great long strings of formed and malformed caecs all day long - up to 8 a day, Poppy's stunk to high heaven. You may just need to tweak the diet a little for your bunster. A day or two of hay only is sometimes sufficient for these cases, maybe a week. :wave:

I don't mean to cause any panic but if I was in your situation it would be better to know and check.

When I got my bunny Adelle she had softer poos and then it was fine with the odd day of diarrhea. I wondered whether it was just her (as she was new to our family) - anyway to cut a long story short after three weeks and three visits to the vets (as despite what they said I didn't feel happy about the fact they said they couldn't diagnose it) she made our other bunny ill (who she was going to be a companion) and it turned out she had a parasite. Unfortunately he was unable to survive and after having his gut restarted 5 time in 3 days he died of a seizure. She's now recovered to full health and has just been bonded with a lovely dwarf lop called Bryon - though we both still miss our lovely mischievous boy Sherlock and always will - he was such a special boy.

It might be worth asking your vet to do a poo test just to check. I really wish my vets had investigated properly and they were supposed to be good bunny vets.

I have noticed that on days I don't give Mini bramble leaves I get those skidmarks. As a general rule she no longer leaves me any 'presents' but she does tend to leave marks on the duvet, usually during moult, where she eats them which suggests to me they aren't as formed as they usually are.

Ok we had to take my rabbit to the vet as he stopped eating and drinking like normal. I found out from my brother that a fox had gotten into the garden in broad daylight and went right up close to him. He went mad running around and kicking. My brother chased the fox away and put the rabbits we had out in runs back into thier hutches which are in our rabbit "shed". Anyway it was after this when my rabbit did the sticky poop and although soon after he did do a lot of poop that was normal sized but darker he has slowly stopped doing as much poop or wee.

We took him to the vets just now and the vet told us she cannot find anything physical wrong with him but that stress may be the reason why he is a little off. She gave us this recovery pellet type stuff to give to him 2/3 times a day and if he doesn't improve then to take him back.

Has anyone else experienced this with thier rabbits? a fox scaring their rabbit that much they eat and drink less? Is it part of a rabbit instinct? i mean maybe he thinks eating less and drinking less will not make him noticed?

He didn't completely stop eating or drinking (i also did syringe some water just to be safe) and he was outside yesterday and seemed fine. He jumped up onto the stools we have in the run a lot more though. I'm hoping he will be fine and it isn't any illness.

Stress and fear can sadly affect rabbits a lot. When mine were outside I used to cover the front with a tarp so least if a fox did come up they couldn't see it.

Yeah the other rabbit who was out at the same time in a different run (the one with only a net covering the top and easier to get into) has been fine and the fox didn't target her for some reason. She has been alright.

I went to go and give some of the recovery stuff and guess what. My mum saw him eat and drink so i am going to wait a little while. The vet did say that if he starts eating and drinking on his own then that'll be best so the medicine is only to help if he isn't improving.

We have never had that problem with the foxes before. The garden isn't a flat one. It is on a hill so although the rabbit runs are on the flat part of it, the rest goes up in stages. We believe the fox jumped over from the top and came down. We have had foxes in the garden when the rabbits have been out but they have never dared come down with humans around and if we heard a noise and suspected foxes we threw mud at the top of the garden. Sometimes there would be a noise of a fox jumping over into our next door neighbours.

Scrufox86 said:

Yeah the other rabbit who was out at the same time in a different run (the one with only a net covering the top and easier to get into) has been fine and the fox didn't target her for some reason. She has been alright.

I went to go and give some of the recovery stuff and guess what. My mum saw him eat and drink so i am going to wait a little while. The vet did say that if he starts eating and drinking on his own then that'll be best so the medicine is only to help if he isn't improving.

We have never had that problem with the foxes before. The garden isn't a flat one. It is on a hill so although the rabbit runs are on the flat part of it, the rest goes up in stages. We believe the fox jumped over from the top and came down. We have had foxes in the garden when the rabbits have been out but they have never dared come down with humans around and if we heard a noise and suspected foxes we threw mud at the top of the garden. Sometimes there would be a noise of a fox jumping over into our next door neighbours.

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You REALLY need to make sure that ALL of your runs are totally fox proof with proper secure wire lids, not just netting. As a child we lost all of our rabbits to a fox by having insecure lids on the runs. Now a fox knows that your bunnies are there i'm afraid it is highly likely it will be back. Fear and stress can cause more than just a bunny to stop eating - their hearts can just stop from shock.

If your bun continues to have a loss of appetite then a trip back to the vet might be necessary in order to have bun given some pain relief and fluids under the skin. Stopping eating leads to GI stasis which is both painful and has a high risk of dehydration. Hopefully if he is eating and drinking and no longer feels under threat he will continue to do so but I would advise keeping a careful eye on him over the next 48 hours.

Yep, one of my two rabbits stopped eating for a couple hours after a cat came into the garden! She's a very nervous rabbit, the other one was not bothered and as soon as the cat left she carried on eating as normal.

I think she just doesn't want to be distracted in case the invader comes back, so waits a while until getting engrossed in munching again.

Scrufox86 said:

Has anyone else experienced this with thier rabbits? a fox scaring their rabbit that much they eat and drink less? Is it part of a rabbit instinct? i mean maybe he thinks eating less and drinking less will not make him noticed?

He didn't completely stop eating or drinking (i also did syringe some water just to be safe) and he was outside yesterday and seemed fine. He jumped up onto the stools we have in the run a lot more though. I'm hoping he will be fine and it isn't any illness.

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prettylupin said:

You REALLY need to make sure that ALL of your runs are totally fox proof with proper secure wire lids, not just netting. As a child we lost all of our rabbits to a fox by having insecure lids on the runs. Now a fox knows that your bunnies are there i'm afraid it is highly likely it will be back. Fear and stress can cause more than just a bunny to stop eating - their hearts can just stop from shock.

If your bun continues to have a loss of appetite then a trip back to the vet might be necessary in order to have bun given some pain relief and fluids under the skin. Stopping eating leads to GI stasis which is both painful and has a high risk of dehydration. Hopefully if he is eating and drinking and no longer feels under threat he will continue to do so but I would advise keeping a careful eye on him over the next 48 hours.

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We are trying to sort out a way we can do that. We got some metal runs from pets at home 4 years ago and well they are hexagon shaped. We combined two together to make a bigger run. Another one we combined with other wood and wire (quite sturdy and i think it was chicken wire? i can't remember now but foxes cannot get into it) and that was the run my scared rabbit was in and the fox went after. We are trying to figure out how to sort out the other one as the nets are wearing (we do put towles over the top of the runs in the most at risk parts and peg them on securely). Also we have never had a fox come down during the day (5pm!) and with humans in close proximity. It is weird. Well we did use the one with only netting yesterday but we were outside with them as we needed to clean some hutches. We will be sorting out the run issue as quickly as we can.

Scrufox86 said:

We are trying to sort out a way we can do that. We got some metal runs from pets at home 4 years ago and well they are hexagon shaped. We combined two together to make a bigger run. Another one we combined with other wood and wire (quite sturdy and i think it was chicken wire? i can't remember now but foxes cannot get into it) and that was the run my scared rabbit was in and the fox went after. We are trying to figure out how to sort out the other one as the nets are wearing (we do put towles over the top of the runs in the most at risk parts and peg them on securely). Also we have never had a fox come down during the day (5pm!) and with humans in close proximity. It is weird. Well we did use the one with only netting yesterday but we were outside with them as we needed to clean some hutches. We will be sorting out the run issue as quickly as we can.

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I seriously wouldn't put the bunnies back out unless you are with them ALL THE TIME until you have secure welded mesh runs in place. Chicken wire is not fox proof i'm afraid. You will need secure lids and wire bases also to stop foxes digging in, or a wire skirt or paving slabs around the perimeter. I'm deadly serious because right now out in your current runs your bunnies are at high risk. Towels and pegs would be laughed at by a fox i'm afraid. x