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PLEASE READ Medical advice needed, have tried the Vietnamese vet but no clues.

C

chopsticks

New Kit
Sorry for legnth but if you can help, please read. I've tried to provide as much info as possible.

We have two adopted/rescued house rabbits in Vietnam. The Viet Vet is lovely but rabbits are not something he knows much about so if there is anyone out there who can help me through this I would be much obliged.

The first rabbit Matilda was always clean and mostly house trained. Now she is getting more and more yellow by the day (on face cheeks, back and especially bum and feet) and is consistently weeing out of her litter tray. She seems healthy other than the fact she is obviously not cleaning herself. Often when we pick her up she has a wet bum, it seems shes sitting in her wee.

I have had the vet over, he cut away a lot of matted, urine stained hair from her rear and then gave her a wash in warm water. He checked her skin and said there was no infection. I suggestion Urinary incontinence but he said if she is eating and not straining the go then she is ok. (she is eating, I haven't seen straining but have been away for a month so not enough time to say she's not fir sure).

1: - Could anyone advise me medically about possible causes of this and how to identify/treat the problem

2:- any suggestions on behaviour or housing related causes? I can provide the following info which may help deduction


Behaviour
This seems to have started roughly a little while after we adopted a second rabbit Maybel, despite concerted efforts we are unable to bond them, they are un neutered at the moment, they live side by side in separate cages but bonding, though promising at times, always fails. (right now they can spend around half an hour in a large area with lots of greens and then there is a scuffle, sometimes quite serious.)

The Vet has done many cats and dogs but never a rabbit, he says he is wiling to research and try. He seems confident. Could the weeing be due to the other rabbit? is it worth the risk of neutering to increase chances of bonding?

Housing
She lives in a two floor cage I built. her litter tray is on the bottom floor, it doesn't have high sides and her aim isn't great, could it simply be that she is healthy but lying in her wee accidentally?

PS - if the two bonded I could give them more space and therefore decrease the chances of her lying in a dirty area.

Thank you for any time and help.

Mark


PS - I have heavily edited this post so the two answers don't quite follow now.
 
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Urinary incontinence can be caused by several things including infection, a neurological problem, bladder 'sludge' ........
So unless the cause is addressed you wont be able to resolve the wetness.

Are there no Vets who could at least examine her ?
 
My answers in red font :)


chopsticks said:
Sorry for legnth but if you can help, please read. I've tried to provide as much info as possible.

We have two adopted/rescued house rabbits in Vietnam. The Viet Vet is lovely but rabbits are not something he knows much about so if there is anyone out there who can help me through this I would be much obliged.

The first rabbit Matilda was always clean and mostly house trained. Now she is getting more and more yellow by the day (on face cheeks, back and especially bum and feet) and is consistently weeing out of her litter tray. She seems healthy other than the fact she is obviously not cleaning herself. Often when we pick her up she has a wet bum, it seems shes sitting in her wee.

I have had the vet over, he cut away a lot of matted, urine stained hair from her rear and then gave her a wash in warm water. He checked her skin and said there was no infection. I suggestion Urinary incontinence but he said if she is eating and not straining the go then she is ok. (she is eating, I haven't seen straining but have been away for a month so not enough time to say she's not fir sure).

1: - Could anyone advise me medically about possible causes of this and how to identify/treat the problem- Impossible to say without examining her. This would include confirming her gender !!, examining her abdomen (for any bladder abnormalities-thickening, tenderness,sludge/stones), her hips and spine (for signs of pain which could make adopting the correct position to urinate difficult/painful), check for any 'structural' problems with her genitals, check her teeth (Dental problems can inhibit a Rabbit's ability to groom themselves, the Rabbit may drink alot and thus pass copious amounts of urine), Urinalysis to check for infection. Check her weight and observe her for any evidence of neurological deficits.........

2:- any suggestions on behaviour or housing related causes? I can provide the following info which may help deduction

Could be behavioural -especially as she is unspayed and the problem began shortly after the arrival of another Rabbit

Are you CERTAIN of the gender of BOTH your Rabbits ? Un-neutered Bucks will constantly spray urine.....................


Behaviour
This seems to have started roughly a little while after we adopted a second rabbit Maybel, despite concerted efforts we are unable to bond them, they are un neutered at the moment, they live side by side in separate cages but bonding, though promising at times, always fails. (right now they can spend around half an hour in a large area with lots of greens and then there is a scuffle, sometimes quite serious.)

The Vet has done many cats and dogs but never a rabbit, he says he is wiling to research and try. He seems confident. Could the weeing be due to the other rabbit? is it worth the risk of neutering to increase chances of bonding? IMO if there has been a lot of fighting already neutering will give no guarantee that you could bond them. They will not forget their previous encounters. Given that the Vet has never neutered a Rabbit before I would not risk it.

Housing
She lives in a two floor cage I built. her litter tray is on the bottom floor, it doesn't have high sides and her aim isn't great, could it simply be that she is healthy but lying in her wee accidentally? If the space she has is very restricted then yes, it is possible that she has nowhere clean and dry to rest.

PS - if the two bonded I could give them more space and therefore decrease the chances of her lying in a dirty area.

Thank you for any time and help.

Mark


PS - I have heavily edited this post so the two answers don't quite follow now.
Click to expand...
 
Could be because of spraying because of not being spayed, but she also might have an infection. Has she had a course of antibiotics? One of mine had a really wet bottom for ages and we couldnt get rid of it. She had a short course of Baytril, which didnt work and the wet came back, so we gave her an extended course and it stopped.

Do they treat bunnies with Panacur in Vietnam? This is for EC and people in the UK often give Panacur.

When he cut away the fur, was she red. She will need something put on the skin, so the urine doesnt burn. Either Sudocrem (nappy cream), or vaseline.

Jane has covered many of the other causes, so I wont overlap.
 
Jane, thanks for your detailed post, we are going to seek a second opinion from another Vet tomorrow using your suggestions. We have noticed that she is not eating as much or as eagerly as she was, she is also thinner than when we went on holiday. Tried to check her teeth but she really didn't like it, very jumpy since the vet visit. Quite worried now, hopefully the other vet will be able to shed more light on what's going on. btw what would signs of neurological problems be?

Raine, thanks for your post also, we have considered this and will include your suggestions to the next Vet.
 
http://newhanoian.xemzi.com/en/venue/show/2665/ASVELIS

just to give you an idea this is the 'good' vets.

Think maybe I should give a more detailed response to your suggestions because I genuinely feel the vets are going to just guess.

Appetite
she is sitting down stairs right now when there is a huge bunch of parsley upstairs, that is not normal at all for her. She did eat some but not with the normal enthusiasm and gave up quite quickly.

Appearance
Definitely lost weight, I may have seen her in a pee position but no pee a few time but can't be sure I'm not just looking for t to hard.

Behaviour
Seems to be making half hearted attempt to clean herself between her hind legs and her hind legs themselves but just stops. She isn't drinking much water at all, she's on mostly fresh greens until more dry food gets delivered (imported to pet shop) I know there is moisture in the greens but our other rabbit is drinking some. It actually seems now that she isn't weeing very much at all.

Tomorrow I will try to sex her for sure and check her teeth.
I'm not sure about abdomen and hips/pevlis as I'm not sure what I'm looking for, also she was always fiesty but she has been biting when we try to examine her as the vet stressed her a lot.

Once again, thanks for your ongoing help, I'm really quite worried that we are going to lose her, she doesn't seem well at all.

It's 2am here I'm going to go to bed, wanted to post this before I sent.

Mark

PS - I can provide photos if it will help.
 
Pictures would be helpful

It really is impossible to say what the primary problem is as the symptoms fit with several possibilities as previously mentioned.

You wont be able to do a thorough check of her teeth without the use of an aurosope, even then it is hard to get a reliable view of all cheek teeth. It is often sharp spurs on the cheek teeth that cause problems.

What is her fecal output like ?

Here are a few links relating to some of the possible issues that may be effecting her, but as I say, this is all guess work going on the symptoms you have described

http://www.lagomorphs.com/dentalchallenges.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3blMal0VXQ

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/urinary.html

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...itozoon cuniculi urinary incontinence&f=false

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/UrinaryIncontinenceRabbit.html

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Kinda feel I am not much help as its a bit like seaching for clues whilst blindfolded :?
 
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