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View Full Version : Metacam - how long does a dose last?



GrahamL
10-06-2011, 01:13 PM
1.6Kg bun, using 0.6ml of 1.5mg/ml dog metacam.

How long will that 'last' in her system?

Everything i read differs, but i can't see how it could last more than 10-12 hours?

Anyone?

LauryStevens
10-06-2011, 01:24 PM
1.6Kg bun, using 0.6ml of 1.5mg/ml dog metacam.

How long will that 'last' in her system?

Everything i read differs, but i can't see how it could last more than 10-12 hours?

Anyone?

I have always been under the impression it lasts around 24 hours but I'm probably wrong. Dosage and bun size probably both play a part in how long its effective for as well. I know what you mean about it not lasting more then 12 hours, sounds like mostly.

allie1904
10-06-2011, 01:36 PM
http://www.metacam.com/documents/Package_Insert_Dogs_NADA-141-219.pdf



Clinical Pharmacology: Meloxicam has nearly 100% bioavailability when administered orally or after subcutaneous injection in dogs. The terminal elimination half life after a single dose is estimated to be approximately 24 hrs (+/-30%) in dogs regardless of route of administration

GrahamL
10-06-2011, 01:39 PM
http://www.metacam.com/documents/Package_Insert_Dogs_NADA-141-219.pdf

Thank you, but thats 5mg/ml so much stronger? or am i very wrong?

ETA: http://www.metacam.com/documents/Package_Insert_Dogs_NADA-141-213.pdf have found the one for 1.5mg/ml so will read that, thank you for the pointing in the right direction :wave:

GrahamL
10-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Ugh, it says the same.

I can't see how this small amount can be keeping her pain free for this long and she seems to get worse as the day extends :(

Guess its back to the vets.

Becki xX
10-06-2011, 01:46 PM
I hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes with this, but Rhia has been on a huge dose for almost three weeks now with no adverse effects at all. I didn't continue with the 4ml a day as prescribed but she's had at least 2ml a day & a 3rd ml if she needed it (Alongside the Zantac). I know many people feel this is far too much but just to give an idea. Obviously in the longterm this may not be an option, but its worth a consideration X

Becki xX
10-06-2011, 01:48 PM
If she is getting worse as the day extends I'd be tempted to give an additional dose just before her usual 'lull'. Goes without saying to OK it with vet first :)

allie1904
10-06-2011, 01:54 PM
If you know that she is in pain, then definitely contact your vet.

There may be a shorter acting opiate that can be given between doses or metacam

xxx

GrahamL
10-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Left a message for her vet, as its his last day, just to see if he thinks she could have anymore, or if we should 'split dose' her.

KarenM
10-06-2011, 01:56 PM
http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/s/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

This refers to the elimination half-life in rabbits and says it's about 8 hours.

I wonder if Ginger would be better having the meds split into two doses a day?

GrahamL
10-06-2011, 01:57 PM
http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/s/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

This refers to the elimination half-life in rabbits and says it's about 8 hours.

I wonder if Ginger would be better having the meds split into two doses a day?

Great minds eh Karen?

KarenM
10-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Great minds eh Karen?

Haha, yes. ;) I took so long finding the link and posting it, you'd already made the suggestion. :lol:

SarahP
10-06-2011, 02:24 PM
I always split into two 12 hour doses, for both rabbits and guinea pigs. When I had bunnies I used to notice that it had totally worn off by 18 hours in.

parsnipbun
10-06-2011, 02:25 PM
As I understand it (and I am NOT a vet) the choice is between one large dose every 24 hours or two smaller doses (each half the size of the maximum dose).

If the pain is so severe that the half size dose dose not stop the pain then the one large dose can be used (with caution - re kidney damage etc) but this means that with most buns there is a dip in the effectiveness before time for the next dose.

Your choice is therefore modified pain over the 24 hours or complete pain removal for several hours followed by gradually increasing pain as it wears off (but see below)

It is an anti-inflammitory and so works by soothing (un-inflaming) whatever is painful (or the nerve which is transmitting the pain). However because it works this way there is also delay in when the pain is relieved - again depending on cause of pain.

Not sure this helps - but basically I guess I am just trying to say that it really is a matter of matching the cause and symptoms to the method of medicating.

Rhianna
10-06-2011, 05:47 PM
Interesting thread.

Dylan has one dose when I put them to bed - which means the time varies depending on my work. He is actually getting more metacam than the vet told me because he showed a marked improvment on the higher dose. I wonder if I should be dividing the dose in two - but would find that difficult because of my two jobs.

They are all due their myxi jabs so I can ask the vet when he visits. I am sure he told me that the metacam lasts for 24 hours though - but I thought that was only when they inject it.

Jenova
10-06-2011, 07:47 PM
I spoke to Hugo's There about this for Grim when he had his teeth problems. She advised splitting the dose, but not splitting it in half. I spoke to my vet and Grim went from 0.7ml a day to 0.6ml twice a day. It was a great improvement.

parsnipbun
10-06-2011, 08:25 PM
Do be aware that there are several issues with metacam. In the dhorter term it can csuse gut ulcers and in the longer term kidney failure. Doses should alwYs be given on a full dtomach where at all possible. Fpr the longer term issue ypu really do need to stay withim vet guidelines. Very high doses at top of range recommenfed should only be given for as short a time as poss. I have had and know of other buns who have had kidney failure a year after using high doses for severe pain/illness. Obviosly this is even more oc sn issue if bun already has renal issues. Ps sorry for typos am on iphone as nursing bun

Jenova
10-06-2011, 08:40 PM
Ginger has bad kidneys anyway so I think Gray is just making her as comfortable as possible. :wave:

biscandmatt1
10-06-2011, 08:46 PM
i give two doses a day, advised by the vet. just reduced slightly lately so matts on 0.7ml now and bisc 0.6ml. same dose twice a day.

Rhianna
10-06-2011, 11:58 PM
The vet advised me to increase the dose every other day but Dylan was markedly less active on the days he had less metacam so he now has the same dose each day. He is elderly with arthritis and I don't want him to be in any pain. I do realise that long term use of metacam isn't ideal, and will talk to the vet about it when he does their myxi jabs.

It sounds like the metacam really helps Ginger too. I will be interested to hear what Gray's vet says about dividing the dose into two.

Jenova
11-06-2011, 12:12 AM
This might sound a little morbid but for some buns we don't know how long they have left. Like Grim I take each day as it comes and make it the best for him as I can. I don't think about the long term because there isn't necessarily a long term. But he's happy and that's all that matters. :love:

Georgeypudding
17-06-2011, 08:08 PM
Sorry guys, managed to post in the wrong place :lol:

thumps_
17-06-2011, 10:08 PM
http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/s/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

This refers to the elimination half-life in rabbits and says it's about 8 hours.

I wonder if Ginger would be better having the meds split into two doses a day?

I understood that the 1/2 life was about 8 hours too.
If given for effective pain relief, it needs to be given at 12 hourly intervals.
If given purely for the anti inflammatory effect - that persists for longer & x1 daily is sufficient.

Ginger is a difficult case because of her kidney problems, it may be a case of keeping her on the minimum dose to keep her comfortable & accept that some risk is involved.

GrahamL
17-06-2011, 11:45 PM
I understood that the 1/2 life was about 8 hours too.
If given for effective pain relief, it needs to be given at 12 hourly intervals.
If given purely for the anti inflammatory effect - that persists for longer & x1 daily is sufficient.

Ginger is a difficult case because of her kidney problems, it may be a case of keeping her on the minimum dose to keep her comfortable & accept that some risk is involved.

We're currently scrubbing the idea of worrying about her kidney problems - we all know they dont work well at all, so we're keeping as comfortable as possible and try and fight the RTI instead.

I guess we just carry on and hope, maybe even pray.

Jenova
18-06-2011, 12:57 AM
I just made a thread basically about this in rabbit chat. I even replied in this thread earlier. Not a good couple of days.

But I just wanted to say I agree with your tactics. I think you're doing everything right.

thumps_
18-06-2011, 02:13 AM
We're currently scrubbing the idea of worrying about her kidney problems - we all know they dont work well at all, so we're keeping as comfortable as possible and try and fight the RTI instead.

I guess we just carry on and hope, maybe even pray.

I also agree with your tactics. :)
I use similar tactics with Thumper.

We used 12 hourly metacam to try to control gut pain for about 6 months, although he's prone to dehydration which is the main risk factor for renal side effects. Subsequent bloods for other reasons showed no abnormality. :)
My impression was that Thumper had good pain control for 8 hours which would fit with the data.
To reassure you, it seems that most oxicam NSAI's are inactivated in the liver & the inactive metabolite excreted via the kidney.:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meloxicam

You've so much to gain by controling pain. There's the kindness aspect, but it will also help the fight against the URI. In rabbits pain causes a marked drop in white cells so they can't fight infection properly, let alone the effect on the gut! Low pain & low stress seems to win the day for bunnies.

prettylupin
18-06-2011, 07:57 AM
I also agree with your tactics. :)
I use similar tactics with Thumper.

We used 12 hourly metacam to try to control gut pain for about 6 months, although he's prone to dehydration which is the main risk factor for renal side effects. Subsequent bloods for other reasons showed no abnormality. :)
My impression was that Thumper had good pain control for 8 hours which would fit with the data.
To reassure you, it seems that most oxicam NSAI's are inactivated in the liver & the inactive metabolite excreted via the kidney.:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meloxicam

You've so much to gain by controling pain. There's the kindness aspect, but it will also help the fight against the URI. In rabbits pain causes a marked drop in white cells so they can't fight infection properly, let alone the effect on the gut! Low pain & low stress seems to win the day for bunnies.

We used 12 hourly metacam to control Nino's arthritic inflammation and pain - worked so much better than 24 hourly and had no impact on his blood results for liver/kidney function.

Definitely noted that efficacy tailed off after 8 hours as Thumps says above.

Captain Helen
18-06-2011, 10:39 AM
My vet recently told me that she thinks it only lasts for 8 hours.

She also said there's just been a study on rabbits about the long term effects of Metacam. (It wasn't a very nice study for the rabbits, apparently :() She said it showed there was no risk of damage (to the liver or kidneys? I forget..:oops:) from long term use like there is for cats and dogs. Does anyone here know about this study?

bunnylover177
19-06-2011, 10:02 PM
I had a rabbit with spondylosis on metacam (.5mlx2 a day) for 4 or so years with no ill effect. She died of cancer of the caecum in the end. My vet is convinced that long term metacam in rabbits is safe. It would be really interesting to know if there is any evidence for kidny damage as I have another elderly bun just starting long term metacam.

GrahamL
20-06-2011, 08:36 AM
Thats interesting, as i was under the impression that it could cause kidney issues - long term. Not that she has much to cause issues to :roll:

thumps_
20-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Thats interesting, as i was under the impression that it could cause kidney issues - long term. Not that she has much to cause issues to :roll:

Most people say that it can cause kidney issues, but the evidence is lacking on the internet accessible to the general public.

The only evidence I found was that it caused kidney damage in cats particularly if they were dehydrated. Cats & rabbits have a very different metabolism - no way can we compare the 2.
I'd love to know if there was anything specifically about rabbits.

I haven't seen a kidney problem from metacam on Ru either. RU has so many members & even more bunnies I'd expect even small problems to show up from time to time.

Captain Helen
20-06-2011, 11:33 AM
I'll be seeing my vet tomorrow, so I'll ask her what the name of this study was, and if it's available online. Maybe I can persuade her to join RU so she can tell us herself! :lol:

thumps_
20-06-2011, 11:58 AM
I'll be seeing my vet tomorrow, so I'll ask her what the name of this study was, and if it's available online. Maybe I can persuade her to join RU so she can tell us herself! :lol:

:wave:Thanks so much. :D It's so important to know the truth.