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RU, We Need Your Advice Please U/D Pics of Fly Netting

helgalush

Wise Old Thumper
This is a bit long but my OH and I really need some advice on what is best to do for one of our rabbits.

Kenco is nearly 7 years old, he has urinary incontience, and has some kidney problems. We havent been given any treatment, other than for EC.

We are very very worried about the possibility of Flystrike. Kenco lives in a large enclosure outdoors with his wifebun Fay. Kenco will urinate wherever he happens to be at the time that he needs to go. Occasionally he has excess cecals as he is also a dental bunny and doesnt eat as much hay as he could.

Measures we take to try to prevent Flystrike are: daily bum checks with cleaning as needed, daily litter tray cleaning, weekly hutch cleaning with extra mop-ups and quick cleans as required, pure citronella around the enclosure, and we are starting to put fine nets over all the "windows" and the run. He had Xenex Flystrike Prevention applied about 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately 2 of my bunnies had terrible reactions to it and I wont use it again. He seeing the vet in the next 10 days for his vaccs and I will enquire about Rearguard (cautious now about using chemicals on them).

However, he is regularly a little bit damp underneath, and I am aware that as an outdoor bunny, he is at high risk of Flystrike. I would like RU's opinions on what we might do for the best for him.

The options we have are limited, but possible. Each has disadvantages.

1) Bring him and Fay to live indoors. We can only offer them our box room which is about 8'x6'. They would have to share the landing, and be in close proximity to Muesli and Starbuck. I am worried about territory/aggression issues, particularly as Muesli and Starbuck have already been in both the box room and landing, and Muesli is also an incontinent bun so they would smell his urine. I also suffer from OCD issues, and do find it quite stressful having incontinent bunnies in the house, but the bunnies welfare has to come first. In addition, there is a possibility that in time we may need this room as a nursery, but that is further down the line and something we could think about if and when.

2) Bond them with Muesli and Starbuck in to a 4. Really not sure this would be wise, given that it would mean 3 males and 1 female, and given also the failed bond that Fay and Starbuck had after a rather nasty fight :?

3) Leave them outside but ensure every meshed bit of their accommodation has the fine netting over it to further reduce the risk of Flystrike. And be super super vigilant with their cleaning and bum checks - we are now increasing bum checks to at least twice a day, etc. This way they get to stay in their current accommodation, reduce stress for them and us, etc.

4) Any other options you can think of.

Thank you for anyone that managed to read all this!
 
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If you bonded them, would they all live inside then? If it was me I wouldnt be too worried about it being 3 boys 1 girl (Nursecroft has the mix in her group, for example) but would share your worries about breaking bonds. I think I would look for someone experienced in bonding to do it in completely neutral territory.

I honestly can't think of much else you can do to prevent flystrike than what you are doing and have suggested. Rearguard would probably be a good option as you know that Kenco is at risk. Is he ok with being handled? I find that with Rearguard you have to really press down on the fur/body to get the fluid out of the applicator, its abit tricky!

Good luck, maybe someone else will have some other ideas!x
 
Thank you Debster for taking the time to read and give me your thoughts. Yes if bonded in to a four they would live inside. Muesli and Starbuck have a large room (not sure of dimensions, maybe 12' x 10'ish) and it is lino'd and we have puppy pads in "strategic positions" to enable easier cleaning and absorption of puddles. So, yes they would all live in there.

I would approach someone to ask if they could help with the bonding, I am not confident enough to do this myself.

Yes Kenco is great at being handled, probably one of my easiest customers! I havent used Rearguard before, and am worried after the Xenex experience but will have a discussion with the vet about what she thinks is best.

Thank you :)
 
Bring them indoors and put flyscreens on windows.

I know this is probably ideal for him in terms of reducing the Flystrike risk. But I am worried about the problems of his urinating in the house, and being so close to Starbuck and Muesli. I also think he and Fay really enjoy being in the garden. And the room would be a lot smaller than their outdoor set-up, although we could try to make it more interesting with different levels etc. What do you think? I guess what I mean is, do you think that the Flystrike issue outweighs these other things?

Or else try to bond them with Starbuck and Muesli, but risk upsetting all the bonds?

I'm wondering whether once we have fly-netted the entire accommodation, whether this would be 'adequate' in protecting them? Hopefully will be completed by tomorrow and will post pics if that would help. :?
 
I think I would do what you are doing (ie keep them outside, as now, but take the extra precautions, including cleaning/disinfecting the hutch more often). Sorry if that isn't much help - it's just that I wouldn't want mine to have to come inside and lose their outdoor freedom if at all possible.
 
If you do bring them inside Helen to the other bedroom, could you buy an offcut of lino to put on top of the carpet on the landing? I did that for a couple of our older buns when they used be in our box room & would wee anywhere but the litter tray. I used to roll it up when they weren't out & about - then just put it down when they were to try to keep the carpet from getting soiled etc. Or perhaps try the clear over the carpet runners you can buy to protect them?

You could try bonding them first & see how it goes - if it doesn't work, then you know you have other options available.

That said you're doing all you can to minimize the risks of flystrike as much as possible by fly netting all their accomodation & citronella. Could you also use other fly deterrants hung off the ceiling of their accomodation where Fay & Kenco can't get to them? Such as fly paper hung up etc?

I guess you also need to weigh up their happiness & if they would be ok being indoors given they enjoy living outside? It's ok bringing them indoors if they would be happy, but not all bunnies are happy inside & if it makes them miserable perhaps it's better being extra vigilant & keeping them outside.

Sorry I'm waffling a bit & don't know if I've helped :oops:
 
This is what is so hard to know. I think Fay was happier indoors but Kenco loves being an outdoors bunny, he's always so eager to come out of the enclosure and play and explore. He wouldnt have that space indoors. It would be hard to keep the landing "neutral" although I do like the idea of using lino that we can roll up/put down as needed. :) I'd be worried about referred agression issues though, because that is very much Starbuck and Muesli's territory right now.

Fly-netting the enclosure is going well today. We can also add the additional fly deterrants like fly paper, and I think certain plants around the enclosure would deter flies - I think borage is one? And I know I have seen a link for more.

If they were inside, our house gets so hot upstairs that they would need windows and doors open, so although the risk is less, we are still going to get flies coming in - and would need to fly-net the windows in the house too.

To come inside they would have a room about 8'x6', whereas their outside space is 8'x4' ground level + 2'x8' upper level plus 8'x4' run, so they wouldnt get as near as much space indoors. Which is important as we are still trying to get Fay to lose weight.

The option of bonding also has difficulties.

Oh I wish someone could tell me what to do! I'm useless with decisions but just want to do what is in their best interests all round :(
 
I think I would put them in the box room and keep them off the landing but give them out door free range playtime. I think if you very their box room daily with different stimuli they will be OK as long as they get time outside to run around.

I wouldn't try a bond or alter the other indoor buns arrangements (sharing landing) if they are happy.
 
Oooh this is a toughy, I do feel for you :(

I think if it were me I would be inclined to leave them outside, and continue with the precautions you are already taking. As Kenco is an old and fragile bun anyway I would worry that moving him indoors or trying to bond him and Fay with the other 2 might upset and depress him too much, and as it might not work out anyway I think I would question if it was worth it :?

Putting mesh on the windows and doors is a great idea, you could also put it on their run. Would it be worth keeping the fur on his back end very short or even shaven so that it can be kept extra clean? I think Id clean off the urine as much as possible every morning atleast to reduce any smell as much as possible.

Im sorry if this is not helpful, it is just my unqualified opinion! You will do what is best for them :wave: xxx
 
I would be tempted to keep them outside, but add the precautions of the extra netting, and plants. I think lavendar and citronella keep the flies away too.
Difficult decision though.
 
I think given his issues, his age, his liking for the outside, the possible stress of changing everything & upsetting the mix I'd go with the outside option + additional anti-fly precautions :wave:

Throw everything at it that you can think of, all the things mentioned & continue to search/ask for any other tips re. keeping the little blighters away.

Can you fit a fan inside their enclosure to reduce bugs settling?

I must stress that I am not speaking from personal experience, just trying to look at the situation objectively :wave:
 
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Thank you for all the replies, we really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions on what to do for the best.

We are going to give them all serious thought, feel free to keep comments coming.

Here are some pics of the fly-netting that we have put up around their accommodation. Every meshed frame has it over. It is Enviromesh which is what gardeners use to keep cabbage and carrot fly off of veggies, and is very fine mesh.

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Do you think this looks ok?
 
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Looks great!

I do that with the piggy hutch, as they're such stinky little things.

Lavender oil is meant to keep flies away.

Also certain plants are fly repellents, including herbs.
 
Looks great!

I do that with the piggy hutch, as they're such stinky little things.

Lavender oil is meant to keep flies away.

Also certain plants are fly repellents, including herbs.

Thank you :) Glad it looks ok.

They have pure citronella on cotton wool around the accommodation. We also have a lavender/citronella dilution that we spray. I read Borage, Thyme and Oregano are meant to be good for keeping them away (amongst others, have saved the link somewhere). I have some borage seeds so will get sowing.
 
That looks great. I have Snowdrop outside who can get a messy bum at times and I have all of her run and playhouse windows covered in netting to stop flies getting in. Last summer I never saw a fly anywhere near the bunnies enclosures and am hoping it works the same this year.
 
That looks great. I have Snowdrop outside who can get a messy bum at times and I have all of her run and playhouse windows covered in netting to stop flies getting in. Last summer I never saw a fly anywhere near the bunnies enclosures and am hoping it works the same this year.

Thats good to hear, thank you. I hope yours and ours stay free of flies.
 
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