I apologize in advance for the long post but I want to provide as much detailed information about the situation.
Our 8-9 year old Dutch has had several health problems over the years since we
adopted her from a rescue shelter.
Back in December while being treated for a sore hock using your wrapping method and metacam for pain relief, she started drooling on several occasions.
This started escalating from just drooling to choking, regurgitating and
aspirating, with the fluid and whatever she was eating last coming out of her
nose and mouth with a horrible retching noise.
Coincidence or not, it seemed like these episodes were happening around the time of her metacam dosage.
We brought her in for examination at the end of December, asking for head and throat x-rays.
We also switched her pain relief for the hocks from metacam (nsaid) to tramadol (opoid).
The episodes seemed to have stopped. By March the hocks were looking much better and she was hopping about normally.
We started stepping her down from tramadol very slowly (to reduce the potential of any withdrawal effects).
By the time April came she was down to less than half the dosage of medication then when she started.
We noticed during this time some shaking of the head and some sneezing a few times.
We were not sure if this was some of the withdraw effects of tramadol (dizziness and sneezing are listed as side-effects from what i have read) or something more sinister (she had a case of head tilt in 2009 which cleared up with baytril) then soon after that the drooling returned and more choking and regurgitation.
In the middle of April she regurgitated shortly after eating a cecotrope, then
later that day she had a similar issue but it did not follow eating and the
discharge was fluid only (a slimy, clear saliva-like discharge). We brought her
to emergency care facility (as this happened late night on the weekend and our regular vet was closed.
They put her in oxygen therapy. We asked for head and chest x-rays and a culture and sensitivity test while on the isoflurane. After an overnight stay, she was fine and had 99% pulse ox. The vet saw her tongue was swollen and had four point marks on her tongue in the back. He clipped the points. He looked down her throat and did not see any problems. He also cauterized a polyp from her anus which had been there from since we brought her home from the shelter.(Her poops were always smaller than that of our other bunnies because of it). He prescribed baytril for what he believed was aspiration pneumonia. I expressed concern that baytril would not be strong enough to treat pneumonia and he said that this was a good starting point. 2 weeks of baytril. It turned out they never performed the culture and sensitivity test and did not take a head x-ray either.
However, she did not seem to have another episode until the following week. This time just the sticky saliva fluid. Then another week of no problems and then another episode.
We thought maybe while she was recovering from pneumonia this was to be
expected. Then we ran out of baytril. We could not get a hold of the prescribing vet and our regular vet would not prescribe the medicine without consulting with the prescribing vet first. There was a two day gap before we would get more baytril.
But two days after resuming the baytril she started drooling again, this time
once a day every morning 4 days in a row which culminated yesterday in another choking regurgitation event shortly after eating a cecotrope.
We took her over to our normal vet asking for culture and sensitivity test and
head and chest xrays. They only did the chest xrays. They stated that while on the baytril the culture and sensitivity test would be compromised. (Which is why we had asked the emergency clinic to do this before anything).
And they were not in a position to do the head x-ray (under isoflourine) during that visit as there were too many emergency patients and limited staff at the time on the weekend - We would have to schedule it.
Later that night she ate all her food no problem and there was no drool this
morning but tonight shortly after charging over to her salad, she choked and
regurgitated again this time on some of her leafy greens
(She brought up chlorophyll green from her mouth and nose). After the event and recovery time of about an hour she casually went over to her food and has been eating on and off normally throughout the night.
She does seem to make a chewing motion when she is finished and just laying
there almost as if there is something still in her mouth (almost like a cow
chewing her cud).
She is a voracious eater, she sits and waits for her large salad every night and barely lets me get it on the plate before she has her head in it.
Even though several vets say she does not have a dental problem, we don't
believe it. I don't know how to interpret x-rays but I don't think the images
are clear enough to prove or disprove anything.
Based on all of our research of her symptoms but no clear evidence from the
diagnostics, we are really only guessing at this point.
Dental abscess or dysphasia seem likely possibilities.
I want to put her on Durapen(Bicillin)as it can help with both pneumonia and
abscesses and our vet will give us a prescription for it, although she is not
too familiar with it and will have to consult to determine a proper dosage
amount.
Also, two of three vets thought her heart might be slightly enlarged but a
third vet who is regarded as an "expert" thought it looked in spec. This could possibly explain fluid up. I have uploaded all x-rays from these events to have another set of eyes on them.
I was even able to capture some shaky video of part of one of her
episodes. The links are here:
x-rays: http://tinyurl.com/6939r8s
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aI48zZE_rc
I also want to mention that during this entire length of time she has been
pooping out "strings-of-pearls" almost exclusively but they have been going
through a long shedding period.
And she sometimes will shake her head and scratch at her left ear. We did give her a course of selamectin and cleaned her ears with nolvasan otic (prescribed by the vet before because of a yeast build up from antibiotics).
We are really looking for some advice here as this is a very stressful possibly
life-threatening problem and we have spent a considerable amount of time and money and have not made much progress on figuring this mystery out.
We fear that with our busy schedules, she will have an episode when we are away and we will come back to find a bunny that has drowned in her own fluid.
Even though she is getting up there in age, there is still a lot of life in her,
very active in eating and playing and seeking out pets from her human servants and grooming from her mate.
Thanks for reading this and if there is any other data I should obtain please
let me know.
Regards,
Michael
Our 8-9 year old Dutch has had several health problems over the years since we
adopted her from a rescue shelter.
Back in December while being treated for a sore hock using your wrapping method and metacam for pain relief, she started drooling on several occasions.
This started escalating from just drooling to choking, regurgitating and
aspirating, with the fluid and whatever she was eating last coming out of her
nose and mouth with a horrible retching noise.
Coincidence or not, it seemed like these episodes were happening around the time of her metacam dosage.
We brought her in for examination at the end of December, asking for head and throat x-rays.
We also switched her pain relief for the hocks from metacam (nsaid) to tramadol (opoid).
The episodes seemed to have stopped. By March the hocks were looking much better and she was hopping about normally.
We started stepping her down from tramadol very slowly (to reduce the potential of any withdrawal effects).
By the time April came she was down to less than half the dosage of medication then when she started.
We noticed during this time some shaking of the head and some sneezing a few times.
We were not sure if this was some of the withdraw effects of tramadol (dizziness and sneezing are listed as side-effects from what i have read) or something more sinister (she had a case of head tilt in 2009 which cleared up with baytril) then soon after that the drooling returned and more choking and regurgitation.
In the middle of April she regurgitated shortly after eating a cecotrope, then
later that day she had a similar issue but it did not follow eating and the
discharge was fluid only (a slimy, clear saliva-like discharge). We brought her
to emergency care facility (as this happened late night on the weekend and our regular vet was closed.
They put her in oxygen therapy. We asked for head and chest x-rays and a culture and sensitivity test while on the isoflurane. After an overnight stay, she was fine and had 99% pulse ox. The vet saw her tongue was swollen and had four point marks on her tongue in the back. He clipped the points. He looked down her throat and did not see any problems. He also cauterized a polyp from her anus which had been there from since we brought her home from the shelter.(Her poops were always smaller than that of our other bunnies because of it). He prescribed baytril for what he believed was aspiration pneumonia. I expressed concern that baytril would not be strong enough to treat pneumonia and he said that this was a good starting point. 2 weeks of baytril. It turned out they never performed the culture and sensitivity test and did not take a head x-ray either.
However, she did not seem to have another episode until the following week. This time just the sticky saliva fluid. Then another week of no problems and then another episode.
We thought maybe while she was recovering from pneumonia this was to be
expected. Then we ran out of baytril. We could not get a hold of the prescribing vet and our regular vet would not prescribe the medicine without consulting with the prescribing vet first. There was a two day gap before we would get more baytril.
But two days after resuming the baytril she started drooling again, this time
once a day every morning 4 days in a row which culminated yesterday in another choking regurgitation event shortly after eating a cecotrope.
We took her over to our normal vet asking for culture and sensitivity test and
head and chest xrays. They only did the chest xrays. They stated that while on the baytril the culture and sensitivity test would be compromised. (Which is why we had asked the emergency clinic to do this before anything).
And they were not in a position to do the head x-ray (under isoflourine) during that visit as there were too many emergency patients and limited staff at the time on the weekend - We would have to schedule it.
Later that night she ate all her food no problem and there was no drool this
morning but tonight shortly after charging over to her salad, she choked and
regurgitated again this time on some of her leafy greens
(She brought up chlorophyll green from her mouth and nose). After the event and recovery time of about an hour she casually went over to her food and has been eating on and off normally throughout the night.
She does seem to make a chewing motion when she is finished and just laying
there almost as if there is something still in her mouth (almost like a cow
chewing her cud).
She is a voracious eater, she sits and waits for her large salad every night and barely lets me get it on the plate before she has her head in it.
Even though several vets say she does not have a dental problem, we don't
believe it. I don't know how to interpret x-rays but I don't think the images
are clear enough to prove or disprove anything.
Based on all of our research of her symptoms but no clear evidence from the
diagnostics, we are really only guessing at this point.
Dental abscess or dysphasia seem likely possibilities.
I want to put her on Durapen(Bicillin)as it can help with both pneumonia and
abscesses and our vet will give us a prescription for it, although she is not
too familiar with it and will have to consult to determine a proper dosage
amount.
Also, two of three vets thought her heart might be slightly enlarged but a
third vet who is regarded as an "expert" thought it looked in spec. This could possibly explain fluid up. I have uploaded all x-rays from these events to have another set of eyes on them.
I was even able to capture some shaky video of part of one of her
episodes. The links are here:
x-rays: http://tinyurl.com/6939r8s
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aI48zZE_rc
I also want to mention that during this entire length of time she has been
pooping out "strings-of-pearls" almost exclusively but they have been going
through a long shedding period.
And she sometimes will shake her head and scratch at her left ear. We did give her a course of selamectin and cleaned her ears with nolvasan otic (prescribed by the vet before because of a yeast build up from antibiotics).
We are really looking for some advice here as this is a very stressful possibly
life-threatening problem and we have spent a considerable amount of time and money and have not made much progress on figuring this mystery out.
We fear that with our busy schedules, she will have an episode when we are away and we will come back to find a bunny that has drowned in her own fluid.
Even though she is getting up there in age, there is still a lot of life in her,
very active in eating and playing and seeking out pets from her human servants and grooming from her mate.
Thanks for reading this and if there is any other data I should obtain please
let me know.
Regards,
Michael
