Max Factor ND kit eye help?

I recently bred a Doe and buck of mine. The buck I knew was a Max carrier(He has the long fur between his ears and on his face) but the Doe I had showed no signs of being a Max carrier and I ended up with a litter with a Max kit in it.. And I have no idea what to do with it. I had no peanuts, oddly enough.

It's lived a week now, compared to the biggest kit it's about 50% the size.

He's very mobile, lively, and eats well. It's just the eyes that seem really the bad part of him.

Take a look:


His other eye isn't like this, anymore. He seemed to have gotten this cover off his other eye and it resealed so his eye slits are closed.
He doesn't act like he's in pain, even when I touch it. Although it's having me worried because he's doing so well.

He's a week old right now, and behind him you can see all the other kits are doing extremely well also.

His head is obviously deformed, his front legs are longer than his back and only one of his back feet are turned in. And both his eyes were open at birth.

I AM TAKING HIM TO THE VET'S. He does have an appointment soon here(in a day) but I wanted to see if anyone else could offer me advice or if you think putting him to sleep would better this little guy.
He's a real trooper.

You bred from a KNOWN Max carrier...................... :roll:

Personally I think it is likely that the Max kit will have internal deformities aswell as those that can be seen. I would not prolong his/her suffering and would arrange *HUMANE* euthanasia *BY A QUALIFIED VET*

I would also cease to breed from a line KNOWN to have a genetic fault. To continue would be highly irresponsible and IMO cruel.

Jack's-Jane said:

You bred from a KNOWN Max carrier...................... :roll:

Personally I think it is likely that the Max kit will have internal deformities aswell as those that can be seen. I would not prolong his/her suffering and would arrange *HUMANE* euthanasia *BY A QUALIFIED VET*

I would also cease to breed from a line KNOWN to have a genetic fault. To continue would be highly irresponsible and IMO cruel.

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I am afraid I totally agree, to breed from animals with deformities is cruel and needless, please take the poor rabbit to a vet and have the parents neutered

You know what... it's safe to breed a Max carrier and a non-Max carrier, both parents must carry it in order for the litter to have a Max baby. I do know this, I'm not going to alter my show quality and breeding quality rabbits because I found out that they happen to carry a deformity that can be avoided.

I DIDN'T KNOW THE DOE CARRIED IT. I even saw the Doe's mother, father, and grandparents and none of these rabbits had Max Factor characteristics.
I must add, I suppose, that I didn't really know it was a Max Factor kit when she had the little guy. It took quite a bit of reading and searching, I thought it was just a very odd peanut seeing as these kits occur often in NDs.

It's funny that you people completely assume I'm going to continue and breed the pair again. Maybe you should assume, at some point, that there are some responsible breeders out there. Sadly I do know a breeder that does breed pairs regardless of them knowing the rabbits are Max carriers... But besides that point, I'm not like this.

I'm a first time breeder of Netherlands, I didn't even know Max Factor existed until I did a lot of digging around. It's not an easy find.

Plus, I asked about what to do with him and his eyes, not- 'Am I being cruel and abusive, should I alter my rabbits because of one mistake in a breeding?'

Seriously people. :/

Cider said:

You know what... it's safe to breed a Max carrier and a non-Max carrier, both parents must carry it in order for the litter to have a Max baby. I do know this, I'm not going to alter my show quality and breeding quality rabbits because I found out that they happen to carry a deformity that can be avoided.

I DIDN'T KNOW THE DOE CARRIED IT. I even saw the Doe's mother, father, and grandparents and none of these rabbits had Max Factor characteristics.
I must add, I suppose, that I didn't really know it was a Max Factor kit when she had the little guy. It took quite a bit of reading and searching, I thought it was just a very odd peanut seeing as these kits occur often in NDs.

It's funny that you people completely assume I'm going to continue and breed the pair again. Maybe you should assume, at some point, that there are some responsible breeders out there. Sadly I do know a breeder that does breed pairs regardless of them knowing the rabbits are Max carriers... But besides that point, I'm not like this.

I'm a first time breeder of Netherlands, I didn't even know Max Factor existed until I did a lot of digging around. It's not an easy find.

Plus, I asked about what to do with him and his eyes, not- 'Am I being cruel and abusive, should I alter my rabbits because of one mistake in a breeding?'

Seriously people. :/

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I dont consider breeding to be responsible full stop

It is obvious that all too many put their 'must have the perfect specimen of the breed' above the health and welfare of the Rabbits.

It's kinder to have the kit put to sleep.

This just makes me so sad.

About 80% or more of the top Netherlands carry Max Factor.
I don't really care about breeding to get the effects or the 'gene improvement' that most breeders claim their litters gain when breeding two carriers. I want healthy litters without losing many kits, I want to help kits survive to their fullest they can, and I'd like to see them on the show table and in good, indoor homes like my rabbits are.

I'm breeding for the love and search for improvement into the breed, the Max Factor genes were passed down from a rabbit that was imported to the USA. Not my doing.

So it's obvious I rather not breed this Max Factor ****, but about every single rabbit out there(even outside Netherlands now, because people are stupid) carry and show this deformity and it's undetectable unless the rabbits show it in themselves or their history. It didn't show in my Doe's case, and to my knowledge there is no genetic test I can give the rabbits to find out if they will produce a Max kit without breeding.

Simple solution

Stop Breeding

I'm not even considering anything of the sort.

I really don't see why people are so against breeding, especially when they're purebred rabbits. It's not like I'm a mass breeding bad backyard rabbit breeder, but oh well. I think breeding mix breed rabbits is completely irresponsible, yet people do it because they make money off them for 'looking cute' and sell irresponsibly for holidays and to people who don't know an ounce of rabbit care and costs.

The majority of the shelters are filled with mix breed rabbits, not purebred rabbits.

I had a kit very much like that (odd head, fur, eyes and legs) we took him to the vets the moment I notices a problem (his eyes were wierd). Vet opened eyes and we had to clean an medicate ( tiacil drops - antibiotics) them about 3 times a day. He survived, but with many problems that cost us probably about £800 to treat. He died tho at almost a year old after having surgery to remove one of the eyes.

I know you say it's fine to breed a non carrier to a carrier, and its true you shouldnt get any affected. Don't you think though, as a breeder trying to improve the breed , it would be one of your aims to breed out this gene from your herd.

vee-jay said:

I had a kit very much like that (odd head, fur, eyes and legs) we took him to the vets the moment I notices a problem (his eyes were wierd). Vet opened eyes and we had to clean an medicate ( tiacil drops - antibiotics) them about 3 times a day. He survived, but with many problems that cost us probably about £800 to treat. He died tho at almost a year old after having surgery to remove one of the eyes.

I know you say it's fine to breed a non carrier to a carrier, and its true you should get any affected. Don't you think though, as a breeder trying to improve the breed , it would be one of your aims to breed out this gene from your herd.

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Exactly.

I'd never heard of it. Do they ever survive or do they have such awful problems that they need to be PTS?

I had no idea what a Max Factor was (other than a brand of make-up ) so looked it up and came across this:

Max Factor ~ This is a gene mutation that showed up in the offspring from a Netherland named "Max". It manifests as kits born with their eyes open, and often severely deformed legs and feet. Sometimes called "frogs" for the flipper-like feet and splayed hind legs, "aliens" for the strange appearance of the open eyes, or simply "maxes". Max Factor kits can survive but it's best that they don't. Euthanasia is recommended. They may be blind due to the open eyes at birth being prone to infection, and the skeletal deformities will require special needs care. The Max Factor gene has been passed down through generations of Netherlands, and can appear in other breeds that used the ND in crosses. Oddly, while the gene is very bad when expressed, it's said that the Max Factor gene can produce the best type and fur on the rest of the litter. Go here or here to see photos of this defect.

Poor little mite The article does state euthanasia is recommended

luvabun said:

I had no idea what a Max Factor was (other than a brand of make-up ) so looked it up and came across this:

Max Factor ~ This is a gene mutation that showed up in the offspring from a Netherland named "Max". It manifests as kits born with their eyes open, and often severely deformed legs and feet. Sometimes called "frogs" for the flipper-like feet and splayed hind legs, "aliens" for the strange appearance of the open eyes, or simply "maxes". Max Factor kits can survive but it's best that they don't. Euthanasia is recommended. They may be blind due to the open eyes at birth being prone to infection, and the skeletal deformities will require special needs care. The Max Factor gene has been passed down through generations of Netherlands, and can appear in other breeds that used the ND in crosses. Oddly, while the gene is very bad when expressed, it's said that the Max Factor gene can produce the best type and fur on the rest of the litter. Go here or here to see photos of this defect.
Poor little mite The article does state euthanasia is recommended

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Thanks for the info, Id never heard of it either :wave:

Poor little bun, probably best hes PTS before he suffers

Such a shame he was bought into the world in the first place

Gemmapookie said:

Thanks for the info, Id never heard of it either :wave:

Poor little bun, probably best hes PTS before he suffers

Such a shame he was bought into the world in the first place

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Especially if he/she also has the Max hair lip/cleft pallet. He/she will eventually starve to death

Jack's-Jane said:

Especially if he/she also has the Max hair lip/cleft pallet. He/she will eventually starve to death

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