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Bonding advice - what's the next step?

Lindy

Young Bun
Sorry, another bonding thread, and looking for advice on the next step. We've kept bunnies for years, and until recently never had a problem, the bunnies all bonded easily. Just to put you in the picture, about a year ago we got Oscar from the RSPCA, no idea of his age, but he's a BIG rabbit, very gentle and loves to sit on my knee for hours and doesn't even move. Our old bun never bonded with him, he was injured twice and we gave up.

Daphne is tiny, another RSPCA rescue, and never stops running around for one second.

Their home is a new hutch with aviary. Oscar lives upstairs and has the use of the large aviary all night, Daphne downstairs and I sectioned off part so she can have a small part of the aviary at night. During the day Daphne has an 8x8 grass run, Oscar has the run of the garden all day.

I'm on my own all week so have been nervous of bonding but two nights ago decided to give it a whirl. Until now both buns have groomed each other through the run.

Here goes ...!

I brought them in and they ignored each other at first, Oscar looked scared, but very quickly they started doing sort of flop binkies. They'd go up to each other and then throw themselves on their side next to the other, flashing the white tum, it was so funny. Here is a photo from two days ago

bonding5.jpg


Daphne was actually lying on Oscar's side, pressing her head into him!

Last night I brought them in for another two hours and they shared a bowl no problem

dinnerfortwo.jpg


And here is them both flopped out after eating

bonding6.jpg


What do I do next? I only keep them in for two hours and then have to put them outside. Last night I swapped them around so Daphne was sleeping in the upstairs hutch and had the use of the aviary all night, Oscar was downstairs for the first time, with the smaller run area. I just peeped out (5am!) and they are sat next to each other, either side of the run.

I don't want to move too fast. I can't keep them in, I'm on my own and don't want to leave the run to eat/shower/whatever and then they fight. I was thinking another session indoors, then try them in a small sectioned off area of the aviary, with me sitting there on guard. What do you think? Oscar is huge, Daphne tiny, yet they get the same food, he is just a big rabbit and was when we got him. He's a "gentle giant". Oh, I should add they have groomed each other too.
 
Oh thank you, I think they are gorgeous too! :love: :love: I now spend most of my day in and out of the garden talking to them. I'm not sure what my neighbours think, but hey ho!
 
I think some people will agree with the "Bunny Dates" approach of what you're doing just now but most will probably say try bonding in 1 straight session where they are both kept together for 72 hours or there about.

The ferplast set up you have already looks fine for bonding. If after the few days they seem to you tht they are getting on well you can icrease space slowly.

But it does seem already that they are at 1 with each othern happy.:D
 
Thanks, I'd love to keep them together longer, but I'm on my own and it isn't possible. They have access to each other all day and night, with just the wire run separating them, but can groom each other as the bars are wide (and I have seen them groom many times).

I used the base of the indoor hutch, but don't like the lid, so got a playpen to go around it instead. It's still dark outside and I'm desparate to go out and check on them! I do sometimes go out in the night, but wonder if the neighbours will call the police when they see the floodlights on and a crazy lady crawling around :)
 
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I am recently bonding my two buns, and you have to keep them there for 72 hours with you always there to accompany them, in case a fight breaks out.
:wave:
P.s. When another bunny presses his head onto another bunny, that bunny wants to get groomed :] Hopefully you'll witness them grooming each other over time.
:wave:
 
Trouble is, I can't be with them 72 hours, I am on my own and it's impossible. The buns have spent two months sharing a double hutch/aviary/garden and grooming each other, so they are very much used to each other and their scent is all over.

I got this far with Oscar and our late bunny (who had been bonded easily four times), but after two hours of being together in a small run in the garden, they turned and fought within a split second and Oscar was badly injured. I stopped the fight in seconds, but they are just so quick.

I'm scared this happens again with Oscar and Daphne, and I'm very nervous now. In the past, I wasn't nervous and it worked easily.

Oooh it is so stressful!
 
Trouble is, I can't be with them 72 hours, I am on my own and it's impossible. The buns have spent two months sharing a double hutch/aviary/garden and grooming each other, so they are very much used to each other and their scent is all over.

I got this far with Oscar and our late bunny (who had been bonded easily four times), but after two hours of being together in a small run in the garden, they turned and fought within a split second and Oscar was badly injured. I stopped the fight in seconds, but they are just so quick.

I'm scared this happens again with Oscar and Daphne, and I'm very nervous now. In the past, I wasn't nervous and it worked easily.

Oooh it is so stressful!

Don't introduce them to a massive space e.g. the garden
I would keep them in the same cage they are in now for another day or two to strengthen the bond.
And after those few days, move them into the run and keep them in there for about 3 weeks until you let them free range, this again strengthens their bond together. Make sure you neutralise everything including the run which I think you'r going to move them into next after the cage, with vinegar and water.
 
Thanks for that, funnily enough I just bought white vinegar, mixed it with water and put in a spray bottle, ready to use! I am going to clean and disinfectant the hutches, and from now on switch them around every night, so they are both used to both hutches and can't think of one particular hutch as "my hutch". They both use the aviary.

I'm thinking of keeping them in another two evenings in this set up, then putting that set up inside the aviary. They'd be in exactly the same bonding unit, but inside their aviary too, so they'd be used to being in that space together.

If that works, as you say, I'll put them inside the grass run (which is where my other bun fought with Oscar after two hours of grooming and sleeping next to each other.)

I just don't want to move too fast and ruin things, I think you may well be right with the three weeks.
 
Thanks for that, funnily enough I just bought white vinegar, mixed it with water and put in a spray bottle, ready to use! I am going to clean and disinfectant the hutches, and from now on switch them around every night, so they are both used to both hutches and can't think of one particular hutch as "my hutch". They both use the aviary.

I'm thinking of keeping them in another two evenings in this set up, then putting that set up inside the aviary. They'd be in exactly the same bonding unit, but inside their aviary too, so they'd be used to being in that space together.

If that works, as you say, I'll put them inside the grass run (which is where my other bun fought with Oscar after two hours of grooming and sleeping next to each other.)

I just don't want to move too fast and ruin things, I think you may well be right with the three weeks.

Don't keep them separately after another few days in the cage.
Put them both in one hutch [ How big is the hutch in feet]?
Then after a week move them into something bigger if they're doing well :]
you don't want to separate them after coming this far, you might break the bond unknowingly :)
Then if they're doing well you can move them into the run etc.
:wave:
 
This is where I am getting scared, as Oscar and our late bun were fabulous in the house, and for two hours in the grass run, totally in love. Then within seconds there was fur everywhere and a very poorly Oscar.

The hutch is a double, each hutch (up and downstairs) is 4 feet wide, 2' high downstairs, 4' high upstairs, three feet deep. (overall height is six feet). The aviary comes straight off that. Both have acess to the aviary at all times through the night (I have sectioned a piece off that only the downstairs bun can have access to), so neither is trapped in a hutch. I know there's talk of the minimum width being six feet, but overall the hutch space, as it is so deep, is the same as a 6' wide hutch, and of course they have permanent access to a 12x4 run.

The hutches are so deep, I'd never be able to reach in if they were fighting at the back of them.

See pic to give you an idea.

hutch2.jpg


So my worry is the next step. I think it will be another night or two inside for two hours, sharing a food bowl, then try them in the aviary, but still inside their bonding set up. If that goes well, extend the bonding area but still inside the aviary. I'd be with them the entire time, as I know how much damage can be done in just two or three seconds. It's difficult trying to do this alone, there is nobody to take over watch duty for even a short break, but I can't be with them 24 hours.

I should add they do have tunnels and toys,this was taken just after my husband finished setting it all up, the tunnels etc were in the grass run with Daphne!
 
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I'm no expert on this but I'm sorry I think its too risky to try them in the run/hutch after only having a few 2 hour dates. In the run/hutch you will be able to be with them for a few hours, no more. Indoors you will be able to be with them most of the time, you only need 5 mins to go to the bathroom, make sure you have loads of convenient food, entertainment etc. Even though you cant be there constantly indoors, you'll be there a lot more than you would with them being outdoors!

I'm going to be on my own when I bond too, although I am currently trying to get my sister to come up. You just need to make sure that you have everything you need in the room, so you only need to leave for toilet breaks.
 
Yeah, you should have seen me preparing for last night's "date". Mobile phone, check. Landline phone, check. Diet coke, check. TV remote, check ... and so on!

Five minutes? I kid you not, it took only 2-3 seconds last time, and Oscar was a mess, his eye was a terrible state. Five minutes and one of them would have been dead. This is why I am scared, I was there, right next to them, two yards away, and still in a few seconds there was terrible damage.

After ten years of happy bonded buns, I am now so nervous to take my eyes away for a split second. My husband is home weekends, but his concentration level is the size of a pea, so he'd be no help. ;)
 
Yeah, you should have seen me preparing for last night's "date". Mobile phone, check. Landline phone, check. Diet coke, check. TV remote, check ... and so on!

Five minutes? I kid you not, it took only 2-3 seconds last time, and Oscar was a mess, his eye was a terrible state. Five minutes and one of them would have been dead. This is why I am scared, I was there, right next to them, two yards away, and still in a few seconds there was terrible damage.

After ten years of happy bonded buns, I am now so nervous to take my eyes away for a split second. My husband is home weekends, but his concentration level is the size of a pea, so he'd be no help. ;)

I know, but you can still be with them more indoors than you could if you continued the bond outdoors. If it took a couple of seconds you couldnt have stopped it if you tried, either. I know both ways are risky, but I think indoors is a lot less risky. Especially as indoors is neutral, whereas outdoors definately isnt.

Perhaps you could continue the 2 hour dates and then when your husband gets back enlist his help, I'm sure he can pay attentiion whilst you go to the loo, as long as hes not trying to multitask :lol:
 
Would it not work if you had the buns indoors with you over the weekend in the plastic ferplast like in the pics, then come through the week you could 1 day at a time have them in the garden for say 30 mins together then increase the time by 30-45 mins per day and see how that goes?:idea:

I just dont see how your going to give them the best start by trying to bond in short bursts. By what your saying they are well aware off each other scents and are known to each other.It does sound like they like each other. Although you have fears they might really surprise you and work like a charm:D:D
 
I am going to have to try to have them in much longer over the weekend whilst my husband is here, but I kid you not, his attention span is a few seconds and he wanders off to do some work (for work) etc.

Last night I had them in for two and a half hours, initially Oscar groomed Daphne for a short while, they then sat at opposite ends ignoring each other. They shared a food bowl, Daphne groomed Oscar for a while, then again sat separately. There has never been any fighting, humping etc, they just igonored each other.

I have my grandchildren for two days from today, so won't be able to bring the buns in for long, as looking after two hyper young grandchildren takes all my energy!
 
I am going to have to try to have them in much longer over the weekend whilst my husband is here, but I kid you not, his attention span is a few seconds and he wanders off to do some work (for work) etc.

Last night I had them in for two and a half hours, initially Oscar groomed Daphne for a short while, they then sat at opposite ends ignoring each other. They shared a food bowl, Daphne groomed Oscar for a while, then again sat separately. There has never been any fighting, humping etc, they just igonored each other.

I have my grandchildren for two days from today, so won't be able to bring the buns in for long, as looking after two hyper young grandchildren takes all my energy!

o_O these are good signs,
Hope the bond works,
 
A little update. Webkath very kindly came to my house Saturday morning to support me moving Oscar and Daphne to the bonding unit inside their run. We had a couple of coffees and not a sign of any aggression. (between the buns, not Kath and me!)

Kath left and then I got a bit nervous, but sat by them until six and they were just so in love. I brought them in for the night and slept next to them. I have to say sleeping on the sofa isn't good for ageing bones :cry:

But ... they are so in love!!! I keep them well fed so that they are content, then Oscar flops on his side, and Daphne lies down on his tummy, using it as a pillow :love:

I am supposed to go to the Egg Run today, but sadly our annual trip is cancelled so that I can spend the day with the buns, in a slightly bigger area in the run.

I know there's a way to go yet, but there has still been no nipping or humping, and they just groom each other and whisper sweet nothings all the time.

If all goes well today, I may leave them in a sectioned off part of the run overnight, but will judge that as the day goes along.

Thanks to Webkath for her support. Back to the lovebirds now :D
 
It is good that they really seem settled together.

If you only just started them yesterday to live permanently together I would not advise moving them from your lovely aviary into the house and then back again. Whilst bonding they need stability to allow them to establish their bond. Moving them whilst bonding can upset their bond.

I assume that you have thoroughly scrubbed the avairy and inside areas with something strong smelling like vinegar and water, sorry I cannot call it a hutch as it is too fabulous to be one of those :D

Once they have been fine in one area for at least 72 hours with no humping, nipping or chasing then increase the space that they have by about 2 square feet, then every 72 hours slowly keep increasing their space until they have full run of the aviary area.

My guess when you bonded previously and they fought is that they may not in the garden have been on neutral territory and this caused the fight to end in injury.
 
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