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Unusual Malocclusion?

Lobo

Mama Doe
Eleven days ago our 17 month old Milo's eating pattern altered abruptly. He ate normally overnight then in the morning sniffed his hay and left it to go to his pellets where he only ate 2-3 Oxbow Bunny Basics. During the day he picked at a small amount of greens, left his pellets and ate no hay. He went to the vet that afternoon where palpating found quite a lot of hair in his stomach and GI tract. A dental examination by otoscope also revealed some small lingual molar spurs but as they were not sharp it was though treating the possible stasis the priority. He was put on motility drugs and Metacam and we did some supplementary Critical Care feeding.

After 4 days his eating pattern had not changed but he was still poohing, although they were smaller but not stasis like. He was just not eating enough fibre. I spoke to the vet and said I thought his problem seemed to be in his mouth as he wouldn't eat anything firm or drink much so a GA and dental was booked for last Thursday. The spurs were removed and his tongue checked to ensure there were no cuts or ulcers. The vet said Milo had a malocclusion he had not seen in a rabbit before. His mandible has an inward bow on both sides which is causing the upper and lower molars not to align and thus developing spurs. Also this is causing his tongue to be always touching against the molars.

Another 4 days on and he is still only just picking at a tiny amount of hay and taking all day to eat a 10-15gms of pellets. His water consumption remains lower, but not to dehydrating levels The poohs are still smaller but there are plenty of them and he is running around and doing binkies. He will eat greens, grass and a little soft Orchard grass but not his Timothy, Meadow or Oaten hays. He is quite easy to syringe feed (once you can get him into the burrito wrap) :)and I usually manage to get 30-40cc's into him at a time.

I am wondering if anyone else has had experience with this kind of malocclusion or if there is any experience of other fibre he might eat without syringing. Unfortunately our choices are limited in Australia with no Redigrass etc. I am concerned for him as we had another bunny with dental problems from malocclusion for 7 years and I would not like to see Milo go through all the GA's, burring and spurs little Liam endured. :(

Not feeling the best

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Hiding from the syringe

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First of all... OMG :love::love: Milo is just gorgeous, I am in love with your beautiful bunny.

I'm very sorry to hear about his odd malocclusion, how unfair, poor Milo. :cry: Nino had a strange malocclusion also but not the same or as severe as Milo's. His jaw was twisted through early tramua we believe, so was a little offset and when he was young his incisors were maloccluded, particularly on the side where his jaw was twisted. It was not severe enough to affect his molars thank god, but if his incisors had not been managed or it had not been dealt with early enough it could have done so. Careful burring (using a bevel edge to adjust the bite - maybe something your vet could consider?) worked to manage the malocclusion so well that after a few burrs he did not need another ever again, however, being so young his jaw muscles were able to adapt and hold the new bite and grow with it. I fear Milo is too old for this and his malocclusion is too severe anyway.

I would agree with you that lingual spurs would cause sufficient difficulty with eating, I know Judy's Thumper has a lingual spur that even without ulceration/laceration to the tonuge causes Thumps significant difficulty eating etc. Their tongues are very sensitive indeed.

Can you get hold of the Profibre Pellets over there? Made by Protexin - I think they are higher in fibre than the Oxbow ones as designed to be a fibre supplement (although the Oxbow you use are pretty good in themselves). I've used the profibre pellets here with mine. Look like this:
http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/small...m_mmc=ShoppingSite-_-GoogleShop-_-null-_-null

The only other fibre I can suggest i'm sure you're already more than familiar with and that would be safe tree leaves and wild bunny safe weeds, and a natural diet much like the one that Judy uses for Thumper. I think you should PM her as i'm sure she'd be more than happy to share her tips if she gets a spare moment.

Wishing Milo lots of get well soon vibes x
 
How long had you had Milo before his eating pattern changed- is he a new rabbit to you or have you had him from a baby?

I wonder why his eating pattern changed overnight as I would have thought it would take some time for the changes in his dental arrangement?

I really don't know the answer- my vet Jason Burgess is very experienced with dental bunnies and I could pm you his number if your vet wanted to see if Jason had any other ideas?

porridge oats made with warm water and a spot of honey have been used to help buns put on weight

also they will often eat HIPP red berry baby food (which you could get online if they don't stock in Australia)

I would normally suggest fresh herbs like parsley and coriander but they may be too fibrous and the problem is being unable to eat rather than loss of appetite.

Dandelion leaves are quite soft - but I don't know if you have them over there?

Do you think it could just be that his tongue is still sore rather than the teeth malocclusion as he was eating normally before the spurs?

sue:wave:
 
First of all... OMG :love::love: Milo is just gorgeous, I am in love with your beautiful bunny.

I'm very sorry to hear about his odd malocclusion, how unfair, poor Milo. :cry: Nino had a strange malocclusion also but not the same or as severe as Milo's. His jaw was twisted through early tramua we believe, so was a little offset and when he was young his incisors were maloccluded, particularly on the side where his jaw was twisted. It was not severe enough to affect his molars thank god, but if his incisors had not been managed or it had not been dealt with early enough it could have done so. Careful burring (using a bevel edge to adjust the bite - maybe something your vet could consider?) worked to manage the malocclusion so well that after a few burrs he did not need another ever again, however, being so young his jaw muscles were able to adapt and hold the new bite and grow with it. I fear Milo is too old for this and his malocclusion is too severe anyway.

I would agree with you that lingual spurs would cause sufficient difficulty with eating, I know Judy's Thumper has a lingual spur that even without ulceration/laceration to the tonuge causes Thumps significant difficulty eating etc. Their tongues are very sensitive indeed.

Can you get hold of the Profibre Pellets over there? Made by Protexin - I think they are higher in fibre than the Oxbow ones as designed to be a fibre supplement (although the Oxbow you use are pretty good in themselves). I've used the profibre pellets here with mine. Look like this:
http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/small...m_mmc=ShoppingSite-_-GoogleShop-_-null-_-null

The only other fibre I can suggest i'm sure you're already more than familiar with and that would be safe tree leaves and wild bunny safe weeds, and a natural diet much like the one that Judy uses for Thumper. I think you should PM her as i'm sure she'd be more than happy to share her tips if she gets a spare moment.

Wishing Milo lots of get well soon vibes x

Thank you very much for the detailed response. We think he is a gorgeous little boy too :love: and to make it even better he is a real cuddle bun and very affectionate.

It was from reading Judy's thread that I hit on the idea that Milo might have a problem with a reduction of lingual space and mentioned it to our vet, particularly in respect to Thumper's reluctance to drink water when his spurs first begin to appear. The vet was very impressed by my diagnosis but I explained to him I would never have thought of it without Judy's observations. Unfortunately, the Profibre Pellets are not available here and it might not be possible to purchase from the UK as we have incredibly strict quarantine laws and particularly as the pellets contain live bacteria.

I follow the wild diet threads with enthusiasm and have some plantain, lemon balm and collard greens seeds to arrive in the next couple of days. They are already fed both fresh and dried herbs. I would prefer to move all the rabbits over to a more natural diet but it will be a slow process as the neighbours think we are a bit mad anyway, planting weeds. We had some milk thistle blow in with the wind and I was keeping them for the buns when the thistles mysteriously suddenly died. We suspect one neighbour may have poisoned them as she is obsessive about weeds; so that does cause concerns when we start to cultivate more weeds.

Our vet shaped Milo's molars when he removed the spurs in an attempt to re-align the mandible teeth as much as possible. He has not seen a dental bunny with this condition so is trying this method in the hope the maxilla molars might naturally assist in correcting this malocclusion. As i mentioned in my first post, we had a lop with severe malocclusion (mostly affecting his incisors) for 7 years and I would hate to see Milo have to go through what he did with his teeth and jaw abscesses. The vet feels that genetic dental problems start to be more pronounced around the 18 to 24 months of age and believes this is probably Milo's problem. There is no sign of horizontal striation on the incisors so we hope that reflects sufficient calcium when young and that the jaw bone may be strong enough to offer support.

He is still as bright as a button, tearing around the room tonight doing binkies, so we are stopping the Metacam for the time being but the fibre intake is still not what we would like.:(
 
Grass is good for wear even though it appears softer than hay, so if he's happier eating this then I would build up the quantity gradually and use that to bolster his fibre intake.

Could you speak to your neighbours about why your cultivating weeds? If they are friendly they may even supply you with their weeds :) There are some herbs that a good for bunnies and also leaves from raspberries/blackberries are very good for fibre and are easy to cultivate.
 
How long had you had Milo before his eating pattern changed- is he a new rabbit to you or have you had him from a baby?

I wonder why his eating pattern changed overnight as I would have thought it would take some time for the changes in his dental arrangement?

I really don't know the answer- my vet Jason Burgess is very experienced with dental bunnies and I could pm you his number if your vet wanted to see if Jason had any other ideas?

porridge oats made with warm water and a spot of honey have been used to help buns put on weight

also they will often eat HIPP red berry baby food (which you could get online if they don't stock in Australia)

I would normally suggest fresh herbs like parsley and coriander but they may be too fibrous and the problem is being unable to eat rather than loss of appetite.

Dandelion leaves are quite soft - but I don't know if you have them over there?

Do you think it could just be that his tongue is still sore rather than the teeth malocclusion as he was eating normally before the spurs?

sue:wave:

We got him when he was about 17 weeks old. It was really unusual the eating problem was so abrupt without a blockage or full-blown stasis being involved. He was weighed at the clinic 7 days apart and although he was eating less his weight was exactly the same at 2.65Kg both times but their scales are designed for dogs so may not be totally accurate. We have good digital scales so will endeavour to weigh him more frequently to keep on top of any possible weight loss. In the meantime we will keep supplementing with Critical Care in the absence of all the good thing you have in the UK.

I think you may well be right that his tongue may be a bit sore still and he could be lacking a little confidence, anticipating pain when he eats firmer food, or even drinking. He is good with all greens and tucked into some coriander last night. We have blackberries (I think brambles in the UK) growing but they are at the end of their season now. There are what are locally called dandelions everywhere at the moment but they are actually false dandelions or catsear (Hypochoeris radicata) rather than the true dandelion (Taraxacum officinale), very similar in appearance but probably not as beneficial. The buns do however enjoy them when offered.

Thank you for the offer of Jason Burgess' number, I will talk to my vet about contacting him. One of the many things I really like about our vet is his willingness to accept all information and will read anything I find for him that will improve his veterinary knowledge. When we feel like we are not going anywhere with problems he will not hesitate to contact the best rabbit vet we have here (David Vella) to run things past him. He really appreciates any information I can gather from RU and the great links people post as he says rabbit veterinary knowledge in the UK is about 5 years ahead of what we have.
 
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