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View Full Version : Compromised house rabbit - outside for short times?



GrahamL
21-03-2011, 09:52 AM
Couldnt think of how to word the title, sorry guys :oops:

I had the back door open yesterday just a little and B&G both were at the panel guarding the door and were looking desperate to get out in the fresh air.

And so my dilemma begins :?

Ginger is currently not myxi vaccinated. Her jab was due just over a month ago, so whilst i know the protection doesn't just 'drop off' she doesn't have the full boosted myxi protection. She will NOT be having the jab for the foreseeable future, thats not an option right now.

So, whilst i know house rabbits are still at risk, albeit slightly reduced in my eyes, due to no contact with the outside world directly, but obviously in-direct infection is still a high possibility, do i let her outside?

I won't be letting Biscuit out at all if she can't go with him, as i can't bear for them to be apart, as they do everything together and never leave each others sides. That would cause them despair and upset in my eyes, so just a big no no.

They've both had a little grass slowly introduced over the past few weeks, which they both love, as its spring grass, i've only given a little, but they both love it and i know the fresh air will do them both the world of good.

So RU, opinions, suggestions, advice etc please.

Kermit
21-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Last year when Inca was too ill to have her vaccinations I let her outside. I agree that the risk is obviously heightened when they are outside, but it just seemed the right thing for me to let them have a run about.

It is a tough one :(

Aurora
21-03-2011, 09:58 AM
Personally I wouldn't risk it. Is it not possible for Ginger to have her jab because of her other problems :( ?

donnamt
21-03-2011, 09:58 AM
if she loves outside then i would let her go out. Only reason i stopped Pearl and Alvin's outside was because as much as she loved it he didnt so they would both be under the sofa withing 10 mins of the door being opened :roll:

i was fully prepared to rush Pearl to the vets at the first sign of myxi should she have been unlucky enough to have contracted it on top of her illness :( and had both my buns loved outside then she would of also been given that pleasure even with the risks of Myxi being present. why deny a dying bunny something they love is my view.

you would not believe how much fruit Pearl was given in her last months :love:

GrahamL
21-03-2011, 10:04 AM
Last year when Inca was too ill to have her vaccinations I let her outside. I agree that the risk is obviously heightened when they are outside, but it just seemed the right thing for me to let them have a run about.

It is a tough one :(

It is tough :( She's never seen outside, except in the snow, which now i know was a mistake, as it made her worse, but now its in a better situation...

I'm really stumped.


Personally I wouldn't risk it. Is it not possible for Ginger to have her jab because of her other problems :( ?

Thank you for taking the time to post :)

I'm so torn.

And yes, she's just not strong enough to manage a myxi jab atm. When her VHD is due in October, i doubt she'll be having that either :(

Our vet says she may never be able to be vaccinated again, but then she has only been given 9-12months tops, although is a huge fighter and will do her best to defy any odds.


if she loves outside then i would let her go out. Only reason i stopped Pearl and Alvin's outside was because as much as she loved it he didnt so they would both be under the sofa withing 10 mins of the door being opened :roll:

i was fully prepared to rush Pearl to the vets at the first sign of myxi should she have been unlucky enough to have contracted it on top of her illness :( and had both my buns loved outside then she would of also been given that pleasure even with the risks of Myxi being present. why deny a dying bunny something they love is my view.

you would not believe how much fruit Pearl was given in her last months :love:

Thank you Donna, i truly appreciate your response.

Whatever happens with Ginger, if she contracted myxi, i'd fight with her, unless she told me "no".

I guess your analagy of denying a dying bunny something she'd love is a great way of thinking about it - that really makes sense to me, personally.

I can believe the amount of fruit Pearl was given ;)

Just wish it was simple, not so complex.

donnamt
21-03-2011, 10:13 AM
Just wish it was simple, not so complex.

the joy of loving these precious creatures sadly.

btw i had no intention of fighting myxi, it would of been PTS straight away.... that is what was decided with the vet, Pearl was so very poorly though she stood no chance against the evil disease even with the jab :cry:

try not to torture yourself, its very clear Ginger is your No.1 right now so you will not let her down with your decisions what ever they are :wave:

Blackberry & Co
21-03-2011, 10:17 AM
Tough decision, Gray - it seems such a shame that they can't enjoy outdoors.

I know it's not the same, but could you make digging boxes with compost in? Grow some trays of grass that could be brought indoors for them to enjoy eating and sitting on?

GrahamL
21-03-2011, 10:17 AM
the joy of loving these precious creatures sadly.

btw i had no intention of fighting myxi, it would of been PTS straight away.... that is what was decided with the vet, Pearl was so very poorly though she stood no chance against the evil disease even with the jab :cry:

try not to torture yourself, its very clear Ginger is your No.1 right now so you will not let her down with your decisions what ever they are :wave:

I appreciate that, i have no idea, its something that we'd need to discuss. We're at the vets again on Friday for more fluids, so will discuss again then.

Thanks Donna :)

GrahamL
21-03-2011, 10:20 AM
Tough decision, Gray - it seems such a shame that they can't enjoy outdoors.

I know it's not the same, but could you make digging boxes with compost in? Grow some trays of grass that could be brought indoors for them to enjoy eating and sitting on?

Not really viable. The house is a state with hay as it is :lol:

Can't have soil everywhere too - Especially with the way Biscuit digs :shock:

I'm moving towards a really short outing next weekend, if the weather is warm enough. Ginger loves the sun, she often sits by the back door when the suns out, or by the door in my office where the sun is in the mornings and tends to move as the sun does to lay back there :love:

I think she'd love to have a good run and binky about on the grass and a good nomming session...

Maybe i should think about it all differently and rather than think of the 'what ifs' perhaps think about the fact that she might not have long left to enjoy things like that, and so i should embrace them instead?

Blackberry & Co
21-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Not really viable. The house is a state with hay as it is :lol:

Can't have soil everywhere too - Especially with the way Biscuit digs :shock:

I'm moving towards a really short outing next weekend, if the weather is warm enough. Ginger loves the sun, she often sits by the back door when the suns out, or by the door in my office where the sun is in the mornings and tends to move as the sun does to lay back there :love:

I think she'd love to have a good run and binky about on the grass and a good nomming session...

Maybe i should think about it all differently and rather than think of the 'what ifs' perhaps think about the fact that she might not have long left to enjoy things like that, and so i should embrace them instead?

I agree - I would rather a pet had a shorter but fun filled life than we wrapped them up in cotton wool 'just in case'.

We have to be the same with Louis, our dog. But when we see him having fun we know we've made the right choice:)

donnamt
21-03-2011, 10:32 AM
Maybe i should think about it all differently and rather than think of the 'what ifs' perhaps think about the fact that she might not have long left to enjoy things like that, and so i should embrace them instead?

if possible try for this :D

ive stopped my panicing and constant worry over Alvin's tummy now, ofcourse when i find him on hunger strike it all comes flooding back and im in floods of tears with Ste sitting there saying why you crying he always gets better :lol: but when its their time nothing we can do to stop it, they decide ultimately if they want to live or not.

Pearl taught me not to worry about tomorrow because bunnies certainly don't :D

Ginger wants her daddy to play in the garden with her :love:

prettylupin
21-03-2011, 10:34 AM
If I was terminally ill I'd take more risks and just enjoy life :)

I say go for it x

mattyp
21-03-2011, 10:37 AM
You have to weigh up the pros and cons really. There is a risk with every animal, sometimes you have to just let them do what makes them happy.

If your garden isn't by any fields or wild rabbits surely it isn't much more of a risk than say you going into your garden then coming back indoors?

poppymoon
21-03-2011, 10:48 AM
i'd say go for it.

having 2 house buns myself (one who comes and goes as she chooses and one who thinks he wants to go outside then cowers and hides as soon as he does:roll:) i try not to think about the what if's now. yes, both of mine are up to date with their jabs but having been bitten myself twice this weekend by some horrible flying things inside the house, i know that there is only so much we can protect them from.

Rhianna
21-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Sue is an outdoor bun anyway and on vet advice has had her myxi jab but not VHD. I want her to get the most out of her remaining time - which is why I took the risk to bond her with my trio, despite knowing it would stress her initially. Her diet is not ideal for a bun as she has a lot of treats but I know every day with her is a bonus and she loves her noms - especially bread and oats.

I think it is about quality of life, not just quantity, but taking any precautions you can to make outdoor outings as safe as possible.

I personally would allow B and G some outdoor time.

Janey
21-03-2011, 01:21 PM
I would let them outside to enjoy they're time together to the max.

It is such a hard decision but you want all the time she has to be as happy as possible. She obv doesn't know the risk of myxi so will un-doubtedly love it outside. Especially if they are looking longlingly into the garden.

I had a cat for years who was always poorly and I spent so many hours constantly worried about him, holidays were ruined by my worry about being away from him even during hours he was perfectly fine, I always worried about 'what if'. When he eventually died I thought about all the time I had wasted and how pointless it was, I wished I had just enjoyed him more. Now I try to get less stressed and paranoid about things, although it's hard, I think it's the best way to be for us and the animals.

I am sure if you let her out the binkies will speak for themselves and you will know if your decision has been the right one :D

Elena
21-03-2011, 01:51 PM
If I was terminally ill I'd take more risks and just enjoy life :)

I say go for it x

This. :)

GrahamL
21-03-2011, 01:52 PM
Will carry on thinking, but you guys have given me some great insights, thank you, seriously.

Shes sat next to me right now, shes just so beautiful. :love:

biscandmatt1
21-03-2011, 02:05 PM
i've had this dilemma lately. bisc and matt are over-due their myxi vaccs due to matt not being well enough to have it yet. but this last few days they have been wanting to go outside so i let them. just for 5 mins each day as i think the fresh air helps their noses. they were really happy and doing binkies. i've also given them a bit of grass the last few days.

it's a tough one i agree, i was worried about it. but our situation is different as they are having their vaccinations when stable again. :)

Kittykat23uk
21-03-2011, 02:10 PM
At the momet I don't think thee are many mossies around so it should be fairly safe. What if you covered the run in a fly screen or mosquito netting? That would reduce the risk of mossies getting to the buns.:D

GrahamL
21-03-2011, 02:11 PM
At the momet I don't think thee are many mossies around so it should be fairly safe. What if you covered the run in a fly screen or mosquito netting? That would reduce the risk of mossies getting to the buns.:D

They won't be going in a run as such. I'm planning on just covering the bits of the garden they can't get at, due to holes etc, it should be ~10ftx5ft :?

JLG
21-03-2011, 02:15 PM
Just wanted to add to the practical options - you mentioned you couldn't grow grass inside because of B's digging, but he possibly wouldn't be able to dig at a roll of turf in the same way. Cut a section off and put it in a large seed tray - it will probably last a good couple of weeks? then your gorgeous girl can get some yummy grass without the potential risks of going outside. and you can just chuck it out and replace it when they've munched and sat on it enough

sending lots of vibes her way (and yours)

Mrs Ord
21-03-2011, 02:25 PM
Not really viable. The house is a state with hay as it is :lol:

Can't have soil everywhere too - Especially with the way Biscuit digs :shock:

I'm moving towards a really short outing next weekend, if the weather is warm enough. Ginger loves the sun, she often sits by the back door when the suns out, or by the door in my office where the sun is in the mornings and tends to move as the sun does to lay back there :love:

I think she'd love to have a good run and binky about on the grass and a good nomming session...

Maybe i should think about it all differently and rather than think of the 'what ifs' perhaps think about the fact that she might not have long left to enjoy things like that, and so i should embrace them instead?

This. You'll feel better in the long run knowing she enjoyed every last second with you.

Jenova
21-03-2011, 03:28 PM
I'd say let her out.

Grim wasn't vaccinated for about two or three years due to his health and I always let him out. I just wanted to make him happy and let him do what he wanted.

I'm contemplating getting him vaccinated this time to be honest. They're both due for Myxo vaccs in the next week or two so I need to discuss this with my vet. But if I don't he'll still be outside. I think the risk is the same. It's carried by flying insects and they're almost as likely to get inside.

Just my opinion.

thenamesJT
21-03-2011, 04:00 PM
I guess your analagy of denying a dying bunny something she'd love is a great way of thinking about it - that really makes sense to me, personally.



Go for it Graham, seeing her running about in the fresh air will give you both so much joy!

My old dog hasnt long left so weve been cheekily giving her treats.....spoil them whilst you can. :love:

Amy104
21-03-2011, 04:23 PM
Bluebell is an outdoor bun. He'd hate being inside so I have no choice but to take the risk with the fact he can't be vaccinated.

However the way I see it is if their time is short I'd rather they had as fab a time as they could and enjoyed what they have left. I think its about quality not quantity.

I use http://www.store2go.net/shop/gorgeousguineas/p/product/0606178712-Bugs+Be+Gone%3A+100gms/ as an extra preventative to keep the biting insects away.

molly35
21-03-2011, 04:26 PM
If I was terminally ill I'd take more risks and just enjoy life :)

I say go for it x

Yes this.

If you were Ginger what would you want to do?

Alfagirl
21-03-2011, 04:29 PM
I would let her out Graham - I know it's not advised, but in Ginger's case I think she would get a lot of benefit from the adventure! :D

Kittykat23uk
21-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Well, you could still let her go out but avoid the evenings when the insects are most active.

BattleKat
21-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Personally I would say let her enjoy all that she can while she can

Could you get a gazebo with insect netting and use metal pens to make it in to a protected run? That way she could still get some time outside exploring new spaces and having fresh air but less at risk from mosquitos etc.
You could light citronella candles and hang citronella bags to keep the bugs at bay if you wanted to let her free range.

If it was minor risk in the house Vs huge risk out of the house I'd say keep her in but realistically there's not much difference. God knows how many mosquito bites I get in the summer months just from having the windows open.

Alibunmum
22-03-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't envy you this Graham. Thankfully Oliver had his vaccs before we knew he was struggling. Is it six months since her last one or a year?

I would say, let her out and have some fun with Biscuit. Like others have said, you know she maybe won't have long left so hopefully she can enjoy the time she has.

GrahamL
22-03-2011, 09:38 AM
I don't envy you this Graham. Thankfully Oliver had his vaccs before we knew he was struggling. Is it six months since her last one or a year?

I would say, let her out and have some fun with Biscuit. Like others have said, you know she maybe won't have long left so hopefully she can enjoy the time she has.

She's now into month 8, it was due beginning of february :? At the time, her pasteurella was so bad that she wouldnt of been able to have the vaccination and she hasn't got any stronger really, and now we know what we know, we daren't compromise her any further. Both my vet and i are of the opinion that she wouldnt be able to handle the vaccinations right now. We're constantly on a 'rolling thinking' with Ginger and if she does get strong enough in the months to come, we'll look at it agian.

BB Mommy
22-03-2011, 09:49 AM
I think it would be a shame to deny them the great outdoors.

At the sanctuary we have rabbits that are unable to be vaccinated due to similar reasons as yours, but they all get to be outside in the good weather.
They are at a similar risk indoors as outdoors, and a good dose of sunshine can lift the spirits of a poorly bun.

Oscar is a "compromised" bun, but he still gets his time free ranging with his partner, and it lifts his spirits immensly. He looks like Eeyore if he doesn't get to go out.

Sometimes I think we wish to protect them from all possible eventualities, but for them it can be a life only half lived.

They're showing you what they want by sitting by the door:D

Lobo
22-03-2011, 11:28 AM
Graham, I don't want to suggest one way or another because I am confident that you only have Ginger's best interest at heart and will make your decisions based on that fact. I would rather relate an experience and our reasons for doing what we did.

Last year we took into care a 10 week old male rex suffering from congenital heart disease. The day after he arrived he was taken to our vet whose professional opinion was to have him put to sleep that day. It was something we just could not do because he had not been given the opportunity to be a little bunny. Our vet understood how we felt and supplied some medications to, in effect, buy this little boy some time. He only gained 31 days reprieve but that allowed us to spoil him and let him know that he was loved and valued. He was allowed to run and do all the restricted binkies his heart would permit without overly stressing him.

I don't know if it was the right thing or not, but to wrap him up and stop him being a bunny just did not seem right. The way he responded by wanting snuggles, cuddles and play makes me believe that if given the choice of those 31 days, or perhaps 38 days being contained in a small area where he could not exert himself and behave naturally; he probably would opt for the way he lived out his short life.