my rabbit has head tilt - please I need some advice.

Hi All

I am new to this forum and wondered if someone could advise me.
I have a mini lop buck named Kai he will be 4 in April. He is a house rabbit.

I noticed Kai scratching his left ear a couple of weeks ago and put it down to waxy ears which I know he has been treated for before and also I used some spot on incase it was fur mites etc- he seemed to be very fine and stopped. Carrying on being his jolly self running eating etc.

On sunday night I came home and called him over and he started to lose his balance abit and then was fine again, throughout the evening and night he didnt show any symptoms - he had a case of head tilt a few years back and recovered quickly with some Baytril and other oral medication.

I went to work on Monday and when I returned I saw his head moving side to side like he was dizzy so took him striaght away to the vets that evening. They kept him over night. I went back to see him on Wednesday and the nurse said that he may have a inner ear infection left side and they took some blood test in case it is neurological issue so waiting to hear when the results come back next week - they said there isnt much they can do if he stays with them apart from give him his medication and if I wanted to take him home, to me he looked worse than when I took him there in the frist place - complete loss of balance his head tilting to one side eyes rolling - which made me break into tears

I decided that I wanted him back home possibly familiar surroundings and being in his cage with toys will help him recover and also my attention and love, they informed me that I had to inject him every day for the next few weeks with Norodine 0.23ml at the back of his neck when I get a scruff part(they showed me) at first just couldnt do it but I couldnt take him to the vets everyday as I work 9-5 and no one else to help me so I have been doing this myself with some difficulties but am gettng better at it! As well as injecting him I have to give him orally panacur.

I have never heard of this medication Norodine and tried to search the net but not much info about this, i have no idea if its effective the nurse said it is an antibiotic for the inner ear infection until they get the blood test results

Can anyone advise me more on this medication or any advice how do I know if he is getting better or worse.. he tries to get up and walk and loses his balance.. stays in one spot and sometime his eyes are moving left to right then he stops.. I can see his head is tilting to the side abit but not as bad some pictures I see of rabbits who have head tilt.. I wouldnt know what I will do if I wake up one morning and see his head like this

Any advice would be great - I love him to bit!!! Money is no option when taking care of him at the moment my vet bill in around 300 mark..

thanks
Jo

hi there, it could be eitehr an inner ear infection or ec, i think its wise to do pannacur make sure this is done for 28days in addition if ec is confirmed then metacam is also given this would be a good idea as it is an antinflammatry so will help either condition (its also a pain relief)

i have a rabbit who had ec without head tilt she is now pretty much ok but stil lsuffers the occasional fit has issues with back legs so sometimes looks like a limp and rear is low to ground but her incontinance and regular siezures adn rollling and balence loss has stopped. now on treatment your bun has a great chance of getting better and regaining his balence he may always have a tilted head though the rolling should stop.

i dont know the drug you have been asked to inject, what location are you prehaps someone locally could help with injections(iv injected buns before and i know others who have too) im sure someone would be willing to help even if its just holding him while you inject?

regarding inner ear infection iv looked up noridine and it seems it is a heavy duty antibiotic which is good news,

metacam wil lease the inflammation in the brain caused by ec and should help with the balence issues, it is given daily, and tastes of honey so usually will be licked off the end of a syringe...dora actually quite missed it when i stopped giving it it was her treat! (she was on it for ec)

regarding making bun comfortable when he is rolling i suggest putting soft things around him and a rolled up towel to lean against also letting him lean against you is good as they can then feel less like rolling to try and regain their balence. xx

Hi

thanks for your comments and suggestions - the vet called me this evening to tell me that Kai's blood test came back positive with something I cant even pronounce but I have to take him back tommorow as he may be on the wrong medication

I will know more tommorow for sure what he was tested positive for and then I can share this with you.

Kai was on Metcam last time he had head tilt and recover quite well so I didnt understand why he didnt get it again this time round.. but once I visit the vets I will be sure to ask, I dont think these injections are making much difference to him but still cannot find much about this on the net..

thank you for your advice!

Hello,
Norodine is an antibiotic, is is meant to be not as high a risk to bunnies as penicillin, but i dont have any experience with it.

I have had a bunny with head tilt. The general treatment would be an antibiotic, panacur & metacam. Metacam is essential to help reduce inflammation and kill pain, i would press your vets tomorrow to prescribe this. (oh, and a pro-biotic is always good when on antibiotics)

Was it Encephalitozoon cuniculi (EC) that your bunny tested positive for? That can be a cause of head tilt, the treatment is panacur.

I am going away this weekend, so wont be able to help, but there are loads of people on here that have dealt with a head tilt bunny, and loads have advice, dont feel alone

This can be a hard illness to get through, but if your bun is fighting this then chances are that they will get over this in time.

My boy was left with permanent head tilt, but he learned to cope well with it

Vibes for your bunster x

Hi. Sorry to hear about your bunny's illness. It sounds like he is lucky to have a good owner who will do everything possible to help him.

The blood test is likely to have shown him to be positive for E cuniculi which is a parasite that affects the brain, kidneys and sometimes the eyes. Lots of buns test positive for it so there's no way to be sure whether his symptoms are caused by that or an ear infection (or a combination of the ) so it's best to treat for both, with panacur or lapizole, an antiinflammatory and an antibiotic (such as the norodine you've been given).

I'm not familiar with norodine but you can find our some more about it here: http://www.petmeds.co.uk/p-3643-norodine-24-100ml.aspx?=googleshopping&CAWELAID=448552673

I can sympathise with how distressing it is to see your bunny this way, but with lots of extra care he can get through this- the rolling should stop once he adjusts to his condition. In the meantime make sure he is in a small, safe padded area, remove any hazards such as steps and ramps, keep handling and stress to a minimum (but give him lots of strokes and nose rubs if he likes them. He may need help eating and especially drinking- offer moist, juicy foods such as herbs and leaves to help with hydration. If he is incontinent vetbed will help to keep him dry.

In time hopefully your bunny will improve, although his head tilt may remain.

There is more information about head tilts here:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/head-tilt.html

Hi All

thank you for all your advice and help - it has put my mind at ease abit.

this morning Kai was eating his pellets and grass, drinking water - basically acting like nothing had happened to him, when taking him to the vets this morning his eye rolling began and kept on going in circles in the carrier.

The vet said the test came back positive for EC it is sensitive to the Norodine which Kai was on (so I was relived that he was on the correct medication) , I asked her if she could give me another antibiotic as injecting him on a daily basis caused him stress and I felt very uncomfortable to do it, she did say that EC was also sensitive to Baytril and she was happy to prescribed me with this (after I had finished the course of his Norodine injections - only 3 more to go!) - I asked for Metcam and she was happy to prescribe this to me - Kai will be on 2 week course of Baytril and Metcam,

I bought him home and he is eating and drinking normally - occasionally tilt to the left side when he is sleeping and eye rollin but I can now only wait and see how the new medication will kick in.

It is good to see him eat and drink normally out of the blue - and I will never understand how the mind of a bun works

Thank you all again!! - its a waiting game now of 2 weeks I shall keep you all posted on his health! :wave:

Glad to hear you are getting somewhere with the meds for your bunny and that other members have been able to advise you.

I am pretty sure the Panacur course needs to be a long one, at least 28 days and please remember that you need to do the "bleach" cleaning on the relevant days (never remember this one ... is it 21 and 28? - someone will correct me I'm sure!) as well as paying close attention to cleaning on all days - don't forget to clean the cleaning utensils, dust pan and brush etc or you will not break the cycle of reinfection. As yours is a house rabbit you may find a Steam Cleaner useful for areas that cannot be bleached.

Thanks - what do you mean bleach clean - as in cleaning the cage?

The vet said to me that the EC was probably a hereditary disease that Kai has has since birth so does bleach cleaning the cage minimise the reoccurance of the disease?

EC is passed from rabbit to rabbit via the infected urine I understand so yes a doe can pass it to her kits in the nest yes.

All areas that could have come in to contact with the infected rabbits urine, ie via paws and fur as well as directly like in toilet areas so floors, bowls, walls etc need to be cleaned well and washed down with a 10% bleach solution on the relevant days - as I said I think its 21 and 28 but please check that - in order to reduce the risk of the rabbit reinfecting itself, it's to do with the lifecycle of the EC protozoa.

You would do well to use the search facility at the top of the page and read other threads regarding EC and Head Tilt bunnies (sorry that sounds a bit formal and telling off doesn't it! It wasn't meant to!)

Heres a link originally posted by JacksJane so I am sure its one you can trust
http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Hi :wave:
Your vet may have mentioned this already! A large percentage of bunnies will test positive for exposure to EC, alot of them are expksed to it at birth. However in most cases the rabbit is healthy and shows no symptoms. So from the blood test it would not be possible to tell whether or not it is actually the EC causing his problems. For this reason I would insist on treating with stronger antibiotics aswell as the Panacur which is the EC treatment. Wlthough Baytril is bunny safe it is not strong enough to fight an ear infection if there is one present.
My bun Mimi had a severe case of head tilt and rolling in May last year. My vet didnt even entertain the idea of testing for EC as he said that the majority of cases of head tilt are due to ear infections. Mimi was treated with Marbocyl (antibiotic) Metacam and Meclozine (a human anti vertigo drug commonly used for gead tilt buns with severe balance problems.)
Mimis head was tilted 90 degrees and she couldnt stand up and would roll continuously for 5 weeks before showing signs of recovery. It was very distressing to see her like that but she made a full recovery and is now a very happy healthy bun
Please feel free to PM me if I can help in any way :wave:

Thanks - I only have the 1 rabbit (Kai) and I clean his cage regularly but will especially be scrubbing more now because of the EC

@ Gemmapookie - Regarding the Norodine - its difficult for me and distressing for Kai to inject him everyday but the vet did say that Baytril is just as effective as Norodine so she was happy to give this to me...
Very sorry to hear about Tilly .. I cannot imagine the pain of losing Kai .. and I hope not to anytime soon..

Today Kai looks abit more perky.. trying to run around (and not falling) but I think he know's that he is leaning more to his left and circling occasionally... his head is only slightly leaning to the left side but only when he tries to stretch his neck out when I have his fav treat after I have given him his injections


Cheers for all the help! this forum is great!!

Hi :wave:
How did it go at the vets yesterday?
How is Kai now? Hope theres been some more improvement :wave:

Just read through the thread, huge vibes for Kai, I hope the vet appointment went well.

Much admiration for you for managing with the injections etc by yourself. One of my buns who hates being handled was on a lot of meds for a couple of weeks last year. Unfortunately my husband and friend were both away and I had no-one to help hold and syringe him, I was in tears the first 2 days of trying because I just couldn't do it, eventually we got there, but I know how hard it can be!

Thanks.....it was difficult at first but i had to complete the course ,kai isnt on norodine any more and was on baytril panacur and metcam...

I need further advice ..it has been a few weeks now since he has been on medication 1 week of norodine which i had to stop because he made a very shocking sound when i tried to administer his last injection, since then just. Oral medication...i had noticed that his head was at a 1 o clock angle to the left he has been very active trying to run without bumpin into things and eating and drinkin, stretching out his whole body on the floor legs kicked bak...seems like he is fighting it.. but in the last few days i have noticed his head tilting more and more so i kinda came to the conculsion that maybe his body is getting immune to baytril so i searched the net for an alternative but effective medication and came to read about Zithromax and how effective it can be after discussing with my vet we are going to take kai off baytril, metcam and pancur and give him the. New one to see how he responds i am just wondering is anyone has used ZIthromax?? I just want kai to have every possible good medication to help him get better

Any feed back on this medication would be great also i am not sure if i should stop panacur and metcam the vets informed me its not required anymore

Thanks

MISSJ said:

Thanks.....it was difficult at first but i had to complete the course ,kai isnt on norodine any more and was on baytril panacur and metcam...

I need further advice ..it has been a few weeks now since he has been on medication 1 week of norodine which i had to stop because he made a very shocking sound when i tried to administer his last injection, since then just. Oral medication...i had noticed that his head was at a 1 o clock angle to the left he has been very active trying to run without bumpin into things and eating and drinkin, stretching out his whole body on the floor legs kicked bak...seems like he is fighting it.. but in the last few days i have noticed his head tilting more and more so i kinda came to the conculsion that maybe his body is getting immune to baytril so i searched the net for an alternative but effective medication and came to read about Zithromax and how effective it can be after discussing with my vet we are going to take kai off baytril, metcam and pancur and give him the. New one to see how he responds i am just wondering is anyone has used ZIthromax?? I just want kai to have every possible good medication to help him get better

Any feed back on this medication would be great also i am not sure if i should stop panacur and metcam the vets informed me its not required anymore

Thanks

Click to expand...

Hi :wave:

Mimi didnt have Zithromax but theres definatly some buns on here that have had it. I *think* BunnyAddict Denises Winston was given Zithromax, and I also think I remember BunnyMadLisa having experience with it too. Maybe give those guys a PM :wave:

Hi

Head Tilt is usually a symptom of one of two things:
E.Cunniculi OR Ear Infection

As most pet rabbits will be carriers of EC anyway (often without showing any symptoms) the blood test for EC does not do anything other than tell you the bun has at some time been in contact with EC.

An examination for an inner ear infection will usually show whether this might be the cause - although again a rabbit can have an ear infection without head tilt (and vice versa ) One of mine presently has an appalling ear infection and has never had head tilt.

IF EC is the cause there is sometimes a trigger for the EC to 'flare up' - as usually it lies dormant. This could be anything - hot weather, dehydration, being scared for some reason, etc

Of course there must be instances where a bun gets an ear infection, which leads it to be run down etc, which leads to a flare up of EC!!

Thus most vets will decide to treat for both possible causes at once - often without bothering to even do a bloodtest for EC.

The treatments will include Panacur for 28 days (or Lapizole which is the same stuff) which helps kill the parasites (EC is actually a parasite but NOT one like worms etc), and metacam accomapnying it to dampen down internal (neck/ear/brain) swelling associated with this. These two are for the EC.

In case of ear infection at least one type of antibiotic - I would suggest a culture test first but if bun is already on antibiotics then that is pointless now. Zithromax is an antibiotic - one of mine was on it. It did give him stomach pain immediately after taking it so metacam is helpful here as well as it also acts as a pain relief.

In addition keep bun comfortable and well hydrated BUT once they can walk encourage this rather than putting in small cage as this seems to help them eventually straighten up. Obviously if still 'spinning' and rolling then will need caging for own safety.

Ensure treatments are given for long enough to actually rid of EC/infection - ie don't stop just because symptoms are better .

parsnipbun said:

Hi

Head Tilt is usually a symptom of one of two things:
E.Cunniculi OR Ear Infection

As most pet rabbits will be carriers of EC anyway (often without showing any symptoms) the blood test for EC does not do anything other than tell you the bun has at some time been in contact with EC.

An examination for an inner ear infection will usually show whether this might be the cause - although again a rabbit can have an ear infection without head tilt (and vice versa ) One of mine presently has an appalling ear infection and has never had head tilt.

IF EC is the cause there is sometimes a trigger for the EC to 'flare up' - as usually it lies dormant. This could be anything - hot weather, dehydration, being scared for some reason, etc

Of course there must be instances where a bun gets an ear infection, which leads it to be run down etc, which leads to a flare up of EC!!
Thus most vets will decide to treat for both possible causes at once - often without bothering to even do a bloodtest for EC.

The treatments will include Panacur for 28 days (or Lapizole which is the same stuff) which helps kill the parasites (EC is actually a parasite but NOT one like worms etc), and metacam accomapnying it to dampen down internal (neck/ear/brain) swelling associated with this. These two are for the EC.

In case of ear infection at least one type of antibiotic - I would suggest a culture test first but if bun is already on antibiotics then that is pointless now. Zithromax is an antibiotic - one of mine was on it. It did give him stomach pain immediately after taking it so metacam is helpful here as well as it also acts as a pain relief.

In addition keep bun comfortable and well hydrated BUT once they can walk encourage this rather than putting in small cage as this seems to help them eventually straighten up. Obviously if still 'spinning' and rolling then will need caging for own safety.

Ensure treatments are given for long enough to actually rid of EC/infection - ie don't stop just because symptoms are better .

Click to expand...

I quoted that bit in bold because because this is precisely what the vets think happened in the case of my Tippex Porkychicken- a stress to her immune system lead to stasis then an infection ear infection and slight head tilt. This then (we think) lead to a flare up of e.c. (she had had symptoms of e.c. 2 1/2 years before this but had made a full recovery).

She had Zithromax for 6 weeks, along with a course of panacur, metacam and an anti- dizzyness drug called stemetil. She tolerated the antibiotic well although she hated the sweet, cherry flavour. The ear infection seemed to clear quickly but her head tilt got worse as the e.c. took hold. At her worse she would roll badly especially at medicine time. After the six week course of zithromax Tippex was put onto a long course of penicillin injections every 2 days which she tolerated much better than the yukky medicine!

7-8 months on she is much improved but has been left with quite a bad head tilt. It doesn't stop her running around, stuffing her chops and being generally a very happy and cheeky bunny xx

Hi All

Kai has been on Zithromax for 3 days now - although at times I can hear his stomach grumble he still eats, drinks water, and runs around the place and he hasnt had a lost of appetite which was a symptom of the medication (he hasnt rolled since the begining of his initial medication but occasional bumping into the wall or the corner of the sofa :?),

At times I look at him when he is just sitting there and his head is at a 2 o clock angle and at times his head is slightly more than that... I know he will have to be on the new medication for longer to see any affects but my vet said that he doesnt need panacur any more or metcam - not sure if I should have taken him off these?

I have noticed and again any information would be great, when he is sleeping his head tilits to the side (left side) from where I sit it looks uncomfortable and his body looks like its almost in this bendy angle like a banana, is this normal or just part of the process? even when he is flat on his stomach and legs kicked out his head bends to the side at times I have found him where he is completely laying with his left side of the face completely against the floor - I give him massages on the head and shoulders and ever so gently turn his head left to right for excercise (he doesnt seem to mind this) I dont want him to think that his head should be in that bent position and he shouldnt try to straighten his neck or head - I know his head my be in this position long term but I have been reading that to try and encourage his brain to hold his head in the correct position - I was even checking if there was a neck brace for rabbits and read where a lady made one herself to correct the head and neck position for her rabbit .. sounds excessive but I will do anything to try and help him as I love him so much

I just dont know what to expect for recovery and also if these angles he is sleeping in or laying in are just something that comes with a bun with head tilt.