Any rabbits out there with kidney failure?

Just wondering as my Mopsey is a 5year old, and in the past few months she has been drinking excessivley. Between her and her friend they are getting through a 1.1litre bottle every day. today it took her 5hours to drink 800mls! :shock:

i took her to vets this morning and we have taken blood and set it off for a full profile. she is not diabetic, and i believe she is also weeing more-though this is hard to tell with the two bunnies. i do know that the amount of urine between them has increased.

i did have doubts as to whether it was Mopsey. but i put a fresh bottle on the run this morning and took Mopsey to work with me (bottle put on at 7.30am). when i got back at 2.30 only a small amount had been drunk-however just checked again and the bottle is empty! all since Mopsey has been back in the run. the bottle has a bowl underneath it, so if it does leak i would know. but either it is not leaking, or Mopsey is drinking straight from the bowl.

anyway, i just wondered if there were any other kidney rabbits out there, as i have a feeling the blood results may confirm my fear. can anything be done? and how can i help her? apart from the drinking and her arthritis (in her back legs) she is absolutly fine and happy.

Has the vet also taken bloods for an EC test?

My bunny Muesli has similar symptoms and he does have kidney damage. However he was initially treated for EC, as this can cause kidney damage if left untreated and if the kidneys were affected by the EC, then the symptoms of excessive drinking and urinating would show.

However my bunny Muesli was treated for EC but in fact his blood test showed no EC. Kenco also had similar symptoms and he was found to have had exposure to EC at some point so he had treatment for EC. The damage he has is milder than Muesli's.

After the blood test showed high blood levels in certain areas that suggest kidney damage, he had x-rays as well to check the kidneys and vets can do ultrasounds also.

Its really diagnostics that are needed at this point to pinpoint exactly whats going on.

IF your bunny has kidney damage - this is what I would say:

My understanding is that bunnies can continue to lead a happy life - they can self-regulate by drinking excessively, so always make sure bunny has plenty of fresh water and never runs out. I also try to avoid feeding veggies that are high in calcium. You may need to be watchful for any signs of urine scald, particularly as she also has arthritis. You might want to consider a daily probiotic. And also you may need to apply flystrike protection in summer if she does have difficulty keeping herself clean/ has urine scald.

Try not to fear the worst - even though Muesli has these problems, he is happy as larry (and a right mischief too).

thanks for responding. we have not done an EC test as it only shows if the rabbit has been exposed to EC before. which i am pretty certain that Mopsey has. Two of my bunnies have had EC, one which she spent alot of time together with. she has been panacured when they both got EC but Mopsey has stress induced pasturella and gets very chesty and struggles to breath when she is picked up (she was from a well know pet shop, sitting in the 'for sale' part as an adult looked scared and stressed) although she has got better the last 5 years she still gets very wound up so daily dosing is a nightmare. because of this she was on a monthly steriod injection for her arthritis-which i stopped when i noticed the drinking just to test that it wasnt a sideaffect of the steriods.
i have been keeping a close ee on her bottom. before she was on the steriods she used to sit in her urine, howver she got much cleaner on the steriods. so far she is holding out ok, but will definatly be applying the rearguard when it gets warm enough.
she also has another problem of very fragile skin round her back end-even teasing a matt out makes the skin red and sore, so i am on double alert for looking after that.

what veggies are high in calcium?

thanks for the response. its comforting to know that if she does have kidney damamger then there is someone else out there.

Yes, Ginger has Chronic Renal Failure

I hope your bunster doesnt have this.

Ginger has associated anaemia with hers, and an immune system thats worth about as much as a two pence piece.

Ginger has Fluids at the vets every week and goes through 2x 'rabbit' bowls (i really ought to measure these in ml's) every 3/4 of a day (Thats with Biscuit drinking too, but i can see how much she drinks).

She's off all veg, as is Biscuit now and are on a 90% hay diet.

Currently 10x SS pellets, a good handful of dill/coriander/basil at lunch time and then bucket loads of hay (she needs this for her teeth also).

I'm currently discussing Fortekor (used for cats/dogs) with my vet, which is good for treating renal failure apparently.

Sherpa this is a list that was kindly given to me by another member. It may also be useful to feed a variety of herbs and natural grasses and weeds though may be useful to check on RU about suitable types as I wouldnt recommend dandelions for instance as they are a diuretic.

Ordered List of Calcium in Fruits and Vegetables
CHARTS:
Vegetable Chart -- vitamin C, calcium, phosphorus, Ca ratio -- PRINT
Fruit Chart -- vitamin C, calcium, phosphorus, Ca ratio -- PRINT
Vitamin C -- high/low ordered list -- PRINT
Calcium -- high/low ordered list -- PRINT
Calciumhosphorus Ratios -- high/low ordered list -- PRINT
Oxalic Acid -- both alphabetic and high/low ordered lists of select vegetables -- PRINT
Calcium/Phosphorus Ratio EXCEL Calculator -- enter weight in grams and generate a calciumhosphorus ratio for a day's worth of foods

In some countries, foods may be known by other names. Alternate food names indicated by asterisk.

Peppers (bell)* - Capsicum
Beet Greens* - Beetroot Greens/leaves
Cilantro* - Coriander
Romaine Lettuce* - Cos Lettuce
Cantaloupe* - Rock Melon
Beets* - Beetroot
Kale* - Curly Kale

CALCIUM per 100 grams -- Vegetables

309 mg -- Lambs quarters
210 mg -- Spinach, Mustard
208 mg -- Dill Weed
190 mg -- Turnip Greens
187 mg -- Dandelion Greens
145 mg -- Collards
138 mg -- Parsley
135 mg -- Kale*
120 mg -- Watercress
119 mg -- Beet* Greens
105 mg -- Chinese Cabbage (pak-choi)
103 mg -- Mustard Greens
100 mg -- Chicory Greens
99 mg -- Spinach
81 mg -- Okra
68 mg -- Lettuce, LooseLeaf
67 mg -- Cilantro*
65 mg -- Purslane
52 mg -- Endive (Escarole)
51 mg -- Swiss Chard
51 mg -- Chard, Swiss
48 mg -- Broccoli
47 mg -- Cabbage
47 mg -- Rutabaga
42 mg -- Brussels Sprouts
40 mg -- Celery
37 mg -- Sweet Potato Leaves
37 mg -- Green Beans
36 mg -- Lettuce, Romaine*
36 mg -- Parsnips
32 mg -- Lettuce, Butterhead (Boston, Bibb)
32 mg -- Alfalfa Sprouts
31 mg -- Squash (winter, all varieties)
30 mg -- Turnip
27 mg -- Carrots
24 mg -- Kohlrabi
23 mg -- Carrots, Baby
22 mg -- Sweet Potato
22 mg -- Cauliflower
21 mg -- Asparagus
21 mg -- Pumpkin
20 mg -- Squash (summer, all varieties)
19 mg -- Endive, Belgian (Witloof Chicory)
16 mg -- Beets*
14 mg -- Cucumber (with skin)
9 mg -- Peppers*,Red
9 mg -- Peppers*,Green
5 mg -- Tomato
2 mg -- Corn, White
CALCIUM per 100 grams -- Fruits

49 mg -- Raisins, Seedless
40 mg -- Orange
33 mg -- Lime
32 mg -- Blackberries
26 mg -- Kiwi
26 mg -- Lemon (no peel)
24 mg -- Papaya
22 mg -- Raspberries
15 mg -- Cherries, Sweet
14 mg -- Strawberries
14 mg -- Tangerine
14 mg -- Apricots
12 mg -- Grapefruit, White
11 mg -- Grapefruit, Pink and Red
11 mg -- Pear
11 mg -- Cantaloupe*
11 mg -- Grapes
10 mg -- Mango
8 mg -- Watermelon
8 mg -- Persimmon, Japanese
7 mg -- Pineapple
7 mg -- Apple (with Skin)
7 mg -- Cranberries
6 mg -- Banana
6 mg -- Honeydew Melon
6 mg -- Blueberries
5 mg -- Casaba Melon
5 mg -- Nectarine
5 mg -- Peach
4 mg -- Plum


ETA: I think collards are spring greens (its an American list I think).

Thanks for the list, she gets a handful of excel senior food a day (between the 2 of them) and then gets readigrass to eat. She gets hay also, but has readigrass as the majority as I have allergies to hay. The veggies she mainly gets are cabbage and carrots, mainly left over from my dads restaurant, the stuff that's not good enough for people! I'm on my phone right now but I'll print off that list later and change the veggies accordingly.

My vet did mention about trying fortekor with her if the results came back, but she said we would look into it if and when. Please let me know what you decide with Ginger. Mopsey's immune system isn't that bad, comsidering she has all sorts of problems, but I have the feeling this increase in drinking is just the beginning of things

ok, results back. the ideal range of urea is up to 8.6 and mopsey is 8.9. it says in the lab report that this increase isnt significant. now my vets are saying that the drinking may be behavioural? i'v never heard of such a thing...and i have had my fair share of bunnies. what do you guys think?

I have known some bunnies to drink excessively as an apparent response to pain, especially tooth pain - is Mopsy a dental bun?

Otherwise, diabetes insipidus (different to the 'usual' sugar diabetes) is a possibility although it is rarely diagnosed in rabbits- diagnosis involves a water deprivation test to see whether the kidneys are able concentrate the urine when the bunny is deprived of water. The rabbit needs to be closely monitored and the test must be stopped if the rabbit shows signs of significant dehydration xx

i have been researching like crazy since yesterday and this drinking in response to pain has come up loads. Mopsey is not a dental bun, but was recently diagnosed with arthritis. i tried her on metacam daily, but her pasturella made it impossible for daily dosing-she would really struggle to breathe when i caught her. she was on steriod injections once a month-however when she started drinking more i stopped these incase the steriods were making her drink. now i think that the steriods maybe wernt helping at all (although she seemed to be brighter on them)

the thing is, she still hops around and jumps ontop of the hutch and her rocks. so its difficult to judge whether she is on pain or not. going to try and get a urine sample at the weekend, just to rule out any other diseases.