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Slightly harassed 1st time rabbit owner...

laladedah

New Kit
Hi everyone. I thought I'd dig in and post, since we're first time bun owners and so far have been learning by trial and error (mostly error!) since we don't know any other bun owners.

We...inherited...Sandy about a year ago. She was originally bought for my daughter by her Auntie on the proviso that she would live with Auntie and Uncle on their small-holding (my other half is horribly allergic to fur). Anyway, long story short, they acquired some new horses and I got the inevitable phone call asking if, now that we were in a house with a garden, would we mind having her as they were running out of space. Never saw that one coming, honest....:roll:

So...1 year later, Sandy has made the transition from garden to house (because we're complete soft touches and couldn't stand to leave her out there during winter). She's quite an old girl, so we know we probably don't have long with her, which is sad because quite frankly, we're complete converts - even my other half, who was not best impressed at being turned into bunny rescue central, completely adores her.

My question, if I may, relates to the dreaded mucky bum. Sandy has malocclusion, which I suspect stops her from cleaning herself properly (we do make sure her teeth are regularly trimmed, but I still don't imagine it's easy for her). Either way, she needs help keeping herself clean...I'm just wondering if anyone has advice on the best way to do it? Everything I do ends up in a hell of a faff, a grumpy bun and me covered in fur! It's something I'm quite worried about with summer coming up and the flies coming out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
hi there welcome to ru! and the world of rabbits, how old is she many people think 3years is old when they first get rabbits but unless a giant (in which case 6yrs is old) then a rabbit can now live to around 12years! :) which is nice to know! (hope this not sound patronising i jsut have no idea how much you already know!!)

i have a rabbit who had ec, this caused excessive urination and sometimes squidgey poos due to medication resulting in urine scald and a very messy bunny on top of this she had fits when stressed, anyway the point to help would be that we found filling the bath shallow with warm water and placing her in it then gently washing her while she was normal way up by putting hand underneath, and then empty and re fill and continue this until water is clear, some people find that showering them while holding on their back will help,

the main thing is to find out what is causing the problems down there, it could be a change in diet? trh type of food you are feeding (mixes and excel are nutorious for this) suddenly being introduced to grass or haing new greens or even fruit and veg if given in excess, give lots and lots of hay to keep her gut healthy.

in relation to a sticky bum with my other bunnys who subsequently hate the bath techniche, one of us holds bun on back and then other wil luse a jay cloth in warm water to bath the bum you may need to use your fingers to seperate hard bits or poopy bits ( we had this problem when feeding excel but have had no probs since many years back changing to science select)

hope this helps?! it is obviously dependant on your rabbit and how easily handled she is, be aware if she constantly has issues during summer and spring i would use rear gaurd (prescription from vets) which prevents fly strike as prevents any eggs from hatching.
x
 
Thanks to both of you!

She's definitely 7 - she was bought as a baby bun for my daughter's 7th birthday. Funnily enough, I read that they could live until 12 today, and I was made up (so no...you were definitely not patronising, it was news to me!).

What is EC? As far as I can tell, she's not urinating excessively, and I think that her faeces are pretty normal (from what I've read) - I just think she has trouble keeping herself clean down there, maybe because of age (but having said that, she can binky with the best of them, so I don't think she has joint problems), but most likely because of the malocclusion. I tried bathing her for the first time today, and I think it's a no-go - I didn't know rabbits could growl until I tried it. She was NOT impressed.

I'm probably going to sound a bit thick here, but I don't understand the problem with giving rabbits green food? We've always mixed green food with her dried mix, and I just assume that as rabbits would presumably eat lots of greens in the wild it wouldn't cause a problem. She's always got loads of hay - I know it helps with their teeth.

Thankfully, she actually loves being handled - she's a big softie. I think I might try the jay cloth method next - I've been using rabbit wipes from Pets at Home, but apart from making her smell really nice, they're a bit rubbish. :)

Is this:
http://www.petsathome.com/shop/fly-guard-spray-75ml-by-beaphar-15806
the same as RearGuard?

Again, thanks for the response...it's much appreciated.
 
Hello and welcome:wave:

Presumably bunny has been checked by a vet as you are having her teeth trimmed? Has the vet given her an all clear on health?

I wonder, is the mucky bum a new problem or something she had while she was at the Aunt's?

Has her diet been changed? What does she currently eat? A buns diet should be 80/90% hay with just a few pellets and a little veg. Is she able to eat hay with her dental problems?
 
The 'mix' you mention may well be the problem.

Rabbits make TWO types of poos - poos that should look sort of brown and big and round and dry which are the 'final product', and a different type of poo called 'caecal pellets' which are soft, squidgy and SHOULD be eaten by the bun direct from their bottom. The reason they should be eaten is that they are a bun's way of doing the cow equivalent of 'chewing the cud'. Taking more nutrients out of the food by taking it back through a second time.

If a rabbit has a diet that is too rich or sugary or has a lot of greens like cabbage etc (as opposed to tough fibrous greens like thistle and bramble and grass), then they will not bother to eat the caecal pellets and they will inevtably get stuck to their bum and make a real mess.

I suspect this is what is happening.

I suggest you GRADUALLY (over a 2 week period) change her diet to a less rich one. Replace (gradually) the 'mix' with a low protein pellet food such as Science Selective. Cut down fruit,carrots and cabbage and try collecting grass and dandelions - and above all make sure she has tons of good quality hay.

This may cure the problem all together - even a bun with malocclusion can eat their caecal pellets if they want to!
 
Some bunnies have sensitive stomachs and too many, or any in some cases, can lead to sticky bums. You're right they would get lots of fresh stuff in the wild but they would be eating grass, weeds, brambles, leaves and bark - not the vegetables we feed our pet buns. Some bunnies are fine, some need a little more care with their diet. Just checking as you're new to this, you probably know but dont feed her lettuce.

edit: also, is she overweight? this can stop some buns eating their caecals.
 
The 'mix' you mention may well be the problem.

Rabbits make TWO types of poos - poos that should look sort of brown and big and round and dry which are the 'final product', and a different type of poo called 'caecal pellets' which are soft, squidgy and SHOULD be eaten by the bun direct from their bottom. The reason they should be eaten is that they are a bun's way of doing the cow equivalent of 'chewing the cud'. Taking more nutrients out of the food by taking it back through a second time.

If a rabbit has a diet that is too rich or sugary or has a lot of greens like cabbage etc (as opposed to tough fibrous greens like thistle and bramble and grass), then they will not bother to eat the caecal pellets and they will inevtably get stuck to their bum and make a real mess.

I suspect this is what is happening.

I suggest you GRADUALLY (over a 2 week period) change her diet to a less rich one. Replace (gradually) the 'mix' with a low protein pellet food such as Science Selective. Cut down fruit,carrots and cabbage and try collecting grass and dandelions - and above all make sure she has tons of good quality hay.

This may cure the problem all together - even a bun with malocclusion can eat their caecal pellets if they want to!

I think you may have hit the nail on the head! I knew rabbits were coprophagic, but I've just Googled caecal pellets, and we keep finding what look suspiciously like a bunch of grapes (sorry for the graphic!) on her cage floor. We've been feeding her a lot of salad type veg - from what you've said, this could be the problem, and would certainly explain why she doesn't have this problem when she lives outside. Eeek, I feel terrible...we've been trying to give her a nice life and have probably made it worse. Oh well... we know now, and I'll certainly slowly make some changes. Back to collecting grass and dandelions, which is what we were doing to start off with. Talk about killing something with kindness....:(

Again, thank you all for your advice, it's very much appreciated by someone who genuinely didn't have much of a clue...on the plus side, she's all cuddled up with my daughter right now, looking very happy with herself!
 
Hiya. :wave:

I agree with what everyone else has said. Can she eat much hay? If she can I would reduce her food and get her eating mostly hay. That has the fibre in it they need. I have a dental bun who can't eat hay and he has the problem you have. It might also help to feed a more 'wild' diet of things like dandelions, bramble leaves, apple leaves and twigs and things like plantain. I'm not all clued up on this but many people on the forum are.

For actual cleaning... it's fun isn't it. :roll:
I have a french lop cross called Grimlock. He weighs over 3kg and he's the one with the bad teeth. I've found the best way is to wrap him in a towel. I keep him the right way up and tuck his head under one arm. I then lift up his bum and carefully snip off the poo with scissors. It's the quickest way. Baths are a no go and so is upside down. Grim is a big boy and boy can he be grumpy. :lol:

This is a great place for advice.
 
I think you may have hit the nail on the head! I knew rabbits were coprophagic, but I've just Googled caecal pellets, and we keep finding what look suspiciously like a bunch of grapes (sorry for the graphic!) on her cage floor. We've been feeding her a lot of salad type veg - from what you've said, this could be the problem, and would certainly explain why she doesn't have this problem when she lives outside. Eeek, I feel terrible...we've been trying to give her a nice life and have probably made it worse. Oh well... we know now, and I'll certainly slowly make some changes. Back to collecting grass and dandelions, which is what we were doing to start off with. Talk about killing something with kindness....:(

Again, thank you all for your advice, it's very much appreciated by someone who genuinely didn't have much of a clue...on the plus side, she's all cuddled up with my daughter right now, looking very happy with herself!

It's not your fault. Unfortunately there isn't much info out there. That's why I ended up here. Even half the vets don't know what they're doing.
 
Ah well at least you came to the right place and found some answers.

When changing the diet it is not a problem to take away the things that are or may be upsetting her straight away but it is a problem adding anything new or even adding something that she hasn't had for a while.

It is fine to keep her on hay and a small amount of whatever museli or pellet food she normally eats for a few days to settle things and then reintroduce the grass/dandelions etc slowly if she hasn't had them for a while. Does that make sense? So if she has been having the grass/dandies all along then carry on with them and just take away the "salad" etc.
 
I think you may have hit the nail on the head! I knew rabbits were coprophagic, but I've just Googled caecal pellets, and we keep finding what look suspiciously like a bunch of grapes (sorry for the graphic!) on her cage floor. We've been feeding her a lot of salad type veg - from what you've said, this could be the problem, and would certainly explain why she doesn't have this problem when she lives outside. Eeek, I feel terrible...we've been trying to give her a nice life and have probably made it worse. Oh well... we know now, and I'll certainly slowly make some changes. Back to collecting grass and dandelions, which is what we were doing to start off with. Talk about killing something with kindness....:(

Again, thank you all for your advice, it's very much appreciated by someone who genuinely didn't have much of a clue...on the plus side, she's all cuddled up with my daughter right now, looking very happy with herself!


Dont worry, my bunny would be fat, frustrated, hormonal, in a small cage with a bad diet if I hadnt found this place! Now he is much happier and healthier, and even the vets have commented on his muscle-tone and character. We all have to start somewhere :)
 
A number of buns can have excess caecals and / or a dirty bottom who are on a lower fibre diet. Hay and grass are all high in fibre. With dry foods mixes are normally the lowest in fibre content when compared to a pelleted food. When feeding pellets / mix they only need about 1 egg cup of dried food a day the rest should be hay, grass, plant life and some green veg.

If you are feeding more than an egg cup of food a day it may help reducing slowly the amount you are giving and considering changing over to a pelleted food. Personally I would avoid excel as some rabbits can have an intolerance to this and suffer problems with a dirty bottom whilst on this.

There are other causes to dirty bottoms ioncluding dental conditions, being over weight, arthritis and EC however if you can get the diet fine tuned this will reduce excess caecals and help you and your vet to keep your bunnies bottom clean.
 
Just to add to janice's fine post, I have found with Mini (my bun who tends towards excess cecals) that if I give her too much fruit or sweet veg such as carrot, pea pods or baby corn that her bum gets sticky. So very, very rarely (and I'm talking like once every month or two) does she get any of the above.
 
Wow, thank you all...it's really nice to get some feedback from people more knowledgable than myself.

I think I'm going to try reducing her salad intake first, because quite honestly she didn't have this problem when she was outside and helping herself to grass and wild vegetation - now I apply some proper thought to it, it should have been quite clear that the issue was the salad.

She already has access to LOADS of hay - she likes to sleep on it, play with it AND eat it, so we puts loads in and change it daily. I feed her a "cereal" type food (Waggs) which she's eaten her whole life. I'm reluctant to change it, mostly because she seems to really like it. Because of her malocclusion, she really struggles with pellet only food - she does try to eat it, but it just doesn't happen.

As an incidental note, I am now being "revenge" groomed every time I stop moving. :D
 
Wow, thank you all...it's really nice to get some feedback from people more knowledgable than myself.

I think I'm going to try reducing her salad intake first, because quite honestly she didn't have this problem when she was outside and helping herself to grass and wild vegetation - now I apply some proper thought to it, it should have been quite clear that the issue was the salad.

She already has access to LOADS of hay - she likes to sleep on it, play with it AND eat it, so we puts loads in and change it daily. I feed her a "cereal" type food (Waggs) which she's eaten her whole life. I'm reluctant to change it, mostly because she seems to really like it. Because of her malocclusion, she really struggles with pellet only food - she does try to eat it, but it just doesn't happen.

As an incidental note, I am now being "revenge" groomed every time I stop moving. :D


its good that shes eating hay, the reason to reduce the mix is so that she eats more hay, so you can start doing this. Mix/pellets are to rabbits like sweets are to children, they will prefer it to hay so it important not to let them have too much, or they will fill up on it and not eat their hay. How much are you giving a day? Does she eat it all?

Some mixes can be okay to give if the rabbit eats ALL of it, the danger is that if they only eat the bits they like, they arent getting all the vitamins and minerals they need. Have a look on the bag, what is the fibre content on the mix? Post it here and if its too low you could think about changing to another mix or pellet. Its especially important to have a high fibre food for bunnies with sensitive tums or bad teeth.
 
for mucky bottoms, depending on the nature of the bunny, you could try an old wet flannel and sit bottom in some warm water and then dry with another old flannel or towel afterwards. You could use gloves if its very mucky but gardening gloves might be nicer for bunny than rubber or vinyl ones. I think its ok to use a mild soap or shampoo if you rinse well. You can even get shampoo for small furries (ferrt/rat) which is ok for rabbit with dirty bits. I have had to wash various areas of Barney at differnt times :D
 
Apparently, it's 10% crude fibre?

She gets a handful a day - she doesn't eat it all, because there's a small amount of pellets in there, and as I've said, she can't eat them. She cleans up the rest though.

@ Roseberry - I tried the sit the bottom in warm water method last night...she was none too impressed, but her bottom is clean now, so I'm hoping that I can maintain it with the wipes until I get the food issue sorted out. Actually, she's still clean 24 hours later, so that's a start!
 
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