Help with blind bunny

Hi there, I'm new to the forum.. This is my very first post!

I came across your forums while looking for advice on caring for my rabbit. I have two dwarfs, Niles & Frasier. OH & I found Niles this morning all crunched up in a corner of the hutch, not wanting to move.. He's normally quite timid & will run from you if he sees you coming so we knew there was something wrong. We took him to the Vet for an emergency appointment, they admitted him and ran some tests.

They told us that they thought he had a parasite. E. C(something). According to them, this has caused the blindness. I feel awful. Like I'm a bad owner! I don't even understand where this could have come from? The leaflet they gave us says that it can come from mother-baby or from other rabbits.. But these guys are 3yrs old & have never been in contact with any other rabbit.. Or other people who have rabbits so I am completely confused?

Is there a chance his vision could come back? We got mixed messages from the Vets, one said it might, another said it definitely won't. They also didn't run any other tests, other than the sight tests. He seems alright in himself now (We've since brought them both inside to keep an eye on them). What are the chances of Niles being ok outside again? He was obviously very stressed this morning.

I have so many questions in my head but I'm drawing a blank.. If anyone could offer some help or advice on this, I would greatly appreciate it. I am just so worried about my poor bun Thank you.

The vet is telling you your rabbit has e. cuniculli. It is caused by a parasite. Did the vet give you some wormer for both your boys as this is what you will need to do. I use Panacur which can be bought off the internet. It will need to be given for 28 days but the vet should have told you all this. Your other boy needs doing as he is at risk of getting it. It is passed on in the wee.

Yes, sorry, that's the parasite. We have a 28 day course of treatment for Niles & a 9 day course for Frasier as a preventative. Frasier doesn't seem to be showing any symptoms at all, which is good.

If you look further down the 'Health' titles you'll see a thread started by 'Jennie' this has lots of info on EC. Depending where the parasite strikes depends what they suffer with. 'Jennie's' rabbit has got the typical head tilt like yours has got the blindness.

There is a lot of useful info in there, but it seems mostly geared towards the head tilt so I'm not sure which parts apply to Niles & which don't? We were only given the worming & something to put in their water to help their guts. Do we need anything else for them?

I have always been told that both bunnies should have the 28 day course and there is also a requirement to deep clean the hutch on certain days of the treatment to make sure you get rid of any spores that are hanging around in the hutch. I will see if I can find a thread for you that explains it all and will post you a link (if someone else doesn't beat me to it!).

Here's a quote from Jennie's thread which talks about the days you need to clean their living accomodation:-

I would suggest you speak to your vet about a 28 day course of panacur, metacam to help reduce inflamation and pain and then get ready to bleach out all your cages at days 21 and 28 - one part bleach / 9 parts water left on for a minimum of 30 seconds before being thoroughly washed off with clean water.

It also recommends on there that your bun should be on Metacam (anti infammatory/painkiller) and Baytril (anti biotic) as well as the panacur.

If your vet hasnt prescribed this then I would get on the phone to them in the morning and ask for it, or perhaps find a more bunny savvy vet in your area.

One of my buns had EC which manifested itself by the loss of use of his back legs. On two occasions the treatment meant he regained use of his legs, but I'm afraid I don't know if this is the same case for blindness.

Sending tons of get well vibes! xx

NLENG2000 - I asked my Vet if we needed to clean out the cage, I told her that it was recently cleaned & whether it needed cleaning now he was being treated & how often after.. She told me that we should just do our normal cleaning of the hutch & it should be ok for now.. She was happy for us to put them straight back into the hutch!

I thought this was a little iffy so we've brought them inside, which means a clean cage & we always clean the hutch before we put them back outside. How thorough do we need to be with the clean?

At the moment they are in a smallish cage - I say smallish, it is recommended for 2 small rabbits but it's not as big as their hutch & they get annoyed being in there too long.. This winter was hard for them because it just kept getting colder! Poor guys. If his blindness doesn't get better & he stays stressed when outside (in the hutch) then we may need to think about bringing them indoors full time.. I'm not sure about where to find a big enough cage to put them in for this.

Do I need to ask my Vet for Metacam? What is this & will it help? I saw it being mentioned in the other EC thread.

We have been given a 28 day supply of Panacur for Niles & 9 days of it for Frasier (What are the chances that he is infected? Will 9 days be enough?)
& we were also given Protexin Bio lapis to put in their water.

This was mostly a guess diagnosis from our Vet, she admitted that they didn't know for sure that this is the problem, but it seemed the most likely & was reluctant to do any further testing.

It's hard to imagine Niles being blind. He's albino so already had partial sight to begin with.. I can see some behaviour being different already though, like he won't go in the little house in the cage.. I'm not sure if he just doesn't know it's there or can't remember how to get in? Otherwise he seems perfectly fine (while indoors at least.. Outside he is crippled with fear!)

ETA - Ooops, we posted at the same time! I will have a word with my OH & will phone the Vet tomorrow to ask about both of those treatments. Will he be in much pain? I know rabbits don't tend to show pain, I hate to think of him suffering

Thank you so much for your help, this is really great & I appreciate it. I am glad your bun managed to get the use of his legs back

Lol - I think we cross posted. Deep cleaning is VERY necessary to stop the parasite from re-infecting. If you follow the instructions on my post above then you will be doing everything you can to stop this happening.

You will need to ask for Metacam and Baytril (again see my post above). Metacam helps to reduce the inflammation in the brain that the parasite causes, and is crucial so that the bunny is in less pain.

You should treat both buns with 28 days just in case, as your other bun may have picked this up by now (although just to reassure you it's very possible he hasn't as my other bunny wasn't affected) but you need to err on the side of caution.

I don't have much experience of blind bunnies and their needs I'm afraid. I would think that just try and keep everything in the same position so that he can learn his environment would be key, but I am sure someone else who knows more about this side of things will be along and be able to offer better advice.

bunlover has experience of blind and partially sighted bunnies and so has Vicky on here- I think its Vicky256 but I'm not sure?- bunlover would know.

I understood bunnies in close contact with a bunny with EC should have the same 28day panacur treatment at the same time.
sue:wave:

We called the Vet this morning to ask whether Metacam & Baytril were going to be of use & asked for a price quote on the blood test(s) required to confirm whether or not he actually has E.C.

They've quoted us £102 for the blood test which is a disease screen & ought to show whether E.C. is there (Although the leaflet they gave us says rabbits need successive blood tests?) & the price also includes the other two medicines. They didn't actually say whether they thought it was necessary but by giving us a quote, they must think that?

We've also called another Vet in the area which was recommended for small pets. Apparently the Vet we will be seeing is a rabbit expert, so fingers crossed! We're hoping he can give us some real answers.. I'm a bit miffed that we've already paid £50 on treatment for a diagnosis that was essentially a guess from the Vet & I begrudge paying out more if E.C. isn't the problem here.

Niles is fantastic today. He has been back to his normal self since we got him back from the Vets & brought him inside. I don't think it's possible for the Panacur to work that quickly (especially as he perked up before we gave him any!). He has no other symptoms, just the loss of vision.

OH has a theory that perhaps his eyes just deteriorated naturally. I'm not sure, it doesn't explain why we found him all bunched up in the corner of the hutch terrified yesterday morning, but he's hopping about like nothing's changed at all. You'd think he'd be more bothered by this? As he's albino, is there a chance his eyes could have just gotten worse on their own?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the other Vet on Monday to see what he thinks might be the cause & either way we will be getting the blood test to determine what the actual problem is/was. No point giving him 28 days of Panacur for E.C. if the problem is something else & our Vet didn't bother testing. Hmm. We'll keep the panacur treatment up until we receive any other information from the Vet (either one). But any info anyone can give would be much appreciated You've all been so wonderful & helpful already.

I just wanted to add that his eyes don't look any different.. There's nothing in them or any swelling etc. Just looking at him today, he seems to be 100% healthy!

JustmeGemmy said:

We called the Vet this morning to ask whether Metacam & Baytril were going to be of use & asked for a price quote on the blood test(s) required to confirm whether or not he actually has E.C.

They've quoted us £102 for the blood test which is a disease screen & ought to show whether E.C. is there (Although the leaflet they gave us says rabbits need successive blood tests?) & the price also includes the other two medicines. They didn't actually say whether they thought it was necessary but by giving us a quote, they must think that?

We've also called another Vet in the area which was recommended for small pets. Apparently the Vet we will be seeing is a rabbit expert, so fingers crossed! We're hoping he can give us some real answers.. I'm a bit miffed that we've already paid £50 on treatment for a diagnosis that was essentially a guess from the Vet & I begrudge paying out more if E.C. isn't the problem here.

Niles is fantastic today. He has been back to his normal self since we got him back from the Vets & brought him inside. I don't think it's possible for the Panacur to work that quickly (especially as he perked up before we gave him any!). He has no other symptoms, just the loss of vision.

OH has a theory that perhaps his eyes just deteriorated naturally. I'm not sure, it doesn't explain why we found him all bunched up in the corner of the hutch terrified yesterday morning, but he's hopping about like nothing's changed at all. You'd think he'd be more bothered by this? As he's albino, is there a chance his eyes could have just gotten worse on their own?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the other Vet on Monday to see what he thinks might be the cause & either way we will be getting the blood test to determine what the actual problem is/was. No point giving him 28 days of Panacur for E.C. if the problem is something else & our Vet didn't bother testing. Hmm. We'll keep the panacur treatment up until we receive any other information from the Vet (either one). But any info anyone can give would be much appreciated You've all been so wonderful & helpful already.

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The trouble with the EC blood tests is that it comes back positive quite a lot of times if buns are a carrier of the disease, so it doesnt necessarily mean they have it (if you follow). I am sure the rabbit savvy vet will be able to advise you best on this. If I were you I would be getting the metacam and baytril today and give it to him, as if he is in pain from swelling in the brain from EC then he will benefit from the Metacam, and it won't hurt him for a couple of days if EC turns out not to be the problem. The key with EC is acting fast, so I really would take these precautions prior to seeing the other vet on Monday.

I understand. Am I right in thinking that Niles (& possibly Frasier) has had this since birth? Or at least before we got him? I don't really understand where it could have come from as neither the rabbits, or ourselves, have been in contact with any other rabbits!

Niles doesn't seem to be in any pain, he was quite happily playing earlier, so OH wants to hold off on getting any extra treatments for him until we have seen the other Vet. He's the one paying for treatment atm so I can't really argue. He did agree that at the first sign of any pain or 'odd' behaviour, we would take Niles straight in & get the anti-inflam. etc.

JustmeGemmy said:

I understand. Am I right in thinking that Niles (& possibly Frasier) has had this since birth? Or at least before we got him? I don't really understand where it could have come from as neither the rabbits, or ourselves, have been in contact with any other rabbits!

Niles doesn't seem to be in any pain, he was quite happily playing earlier, so OH wants to hold off on getting any extra treatments for him until we have seen the other Vet. He's the one paying for treatment atm so I can't really argue. He did agree that at the first sign of any pain or 'odd' behaviour, we would take Niles straight in & get the anti-inflam. etc.

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yes most bunnies are carriers but it is spread by urine or eating infected bedding ie if the hay had ec spores in (you will never be able to tell) then it could have come from there, basically the test we had done for dora was a tesla? test this showed her antibodies reaction to ec the higher the anitbodie count fighting the ec the more likely its an active infection we were able to confirm she did have it and she didnt have all the normal symptoms either though had different from your bunny x

also it could be a genetic disorder and did they look into the eye to check the blood vessals behind the eye? also for any cloudyness which could be cateract related, rews are usually poor sighted and it is possible this is a time deteriation also. x

Oh, so it really could have come from anywhere? I didn't realise the hay could have been infected. I thought it had to come from another rabbit's urine or passed down from mother to baby.

The test our regular Vet wants to do is just a normal disease screen, which I guess will just show whether or not there is a trace of the EC parasite, but probably won't be able to determine whether it is active or not. This is something we will bring up with the new Vet on Monday & see what he would recommend.

There isn't any cloudiness in his eyes, he has the same eyes as other albino rabbits. I'm not sure how they examined his eyes, they told me on the phone that they had done a test with each rabbit where they would put their face right in front of the rabbit to see if he responded. Frasier did, Niles didn't. Niles also didn't respond to objects being put near his eyes, whereas Frasier either blinked or moved away. That's as in depth as they were with me on the phone.

OH thinks it is just deterioration of his eyesight as he has adapted so well in such a short amount of time! He was hopping about on our kitchen floor this morning, in & out of the chair legs & then went to explore the shoes & a piece of the hutch that we'd taken out & put on the floor. He didn't bump into anything, not even slightly!

How can genetic disorders be tested? I imagine that would be quite pricey :S

I have a recently adopted mini lop ... he had EC that wasn't treated immediately by his previous owners.
As result, he has head tilt & following a vet examination following his adoption, we have learnt that he is blind & also deaf
It is important to take all the precautions you can ...

At the moment we are doing absolutely everything our Vet has told us to do & we will compete the course of treatment for Niles, and also Frasier as a precaution. Our current Vet doesn't seem to think that his condition will get any worse as it was caught when it was.. & although we are sceptical, we will still err on the side of caution & worm them - Even if the second Vet says he doesn't have EC, I want to be safe either way & make sure there's no chance.

We took him straight to the Vet as soon as we noticed that he was behaving differently, but like I've said before, he has suddenly returned to his old self. The whole thing is baffling to me.

It is awful when people don't take their pets to the Vet as soon as they notice something off. I'd never heard of EC before yesterday, but with the other symptoms, I couldn't imagine not taking them down! I hope your adopted bunny is able to live a good life, despite his problems as a result of EC

Sounds like you're doing everything you can. I hope your trip to the other vet goes well. :wave: