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Peanut-Toffee
31-01-2011, 07:38 AM
Looks like one of the hares that someone on here has?
Says its an 'athlete' and is gonna be jumping. Be on before 8am.

vee-jay
31-01-2011, 07:44 AM
sounds like nicole's (raven rex's) hare Phoenix

Peanut-Toffee
31-01-2011, 07:48 AM
Yeah they said its called Phoenix! Thats the member I was thinking of aswell.

Grin
31-01-2011, 07:49 AM
As much as i hate daybreak, i have it on waiting for it - hurry up, i need to go to work soon!! :lol::lol::lol:

Peanut-Toffee
31-01-2011, 07:52 AM
On now

Peanut-Toffee
31-01-2011, 07:59 AM
Poor thing looks terrified :(

coco1200
31-01-2011, 08:00 AM
poor rabbit is so stressed out. :(

MAJOR FAIL.

Grin
31-01-2011, 08:00 AM
Awww - the poor thing. He's gorgeous.

So sad that they had to mention breeding in it - why was that even relevant. :(

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 08:08 AM
Phoenix did fab at the show and on the preview clips of it, my jasper was there. :love: Phoenix must be bored of it now and that's fine, just shows you can't force them, he's a lovely bunny, ever so friendly and he was binkying at the show :)

louise and Gus
31-01-2011, 08:10 AM
Awww - the poor thing. He's gorgeous.

So sad that they had to mention breeding in it - why was that even relevant. :(

Well the person featured is a breeder of Belgian Hares...and the show will probably increase demand for Belgian Hares, so she will have lots of enquires so I am sure she wanted to get that bit in about breeding...or is that me being cynical??

Grin
31-01-2011, 08:11 AM
Well the person featured is a breeder of Belgian Hares...and the show will probably increase demand for Belgian Hares, so she will have lots of enquires so I am sure she wanted to get that bit in about breeding...or is that me being cynical??

That's you being spot on. Eurgh.... :cry:

chloemurray
31-01-2011, 08:22 AM
Phoenix did fab at the show and on the preview clips of it, my jasper was there. :love: Phoenix must be bored of it now and that's fine, just shows you can't force them, he's a lovely bunny, ever so friendly and he was binkying at the show :)

I saw the clip of jasper on daybreak today, he is such a cutie:love:
I don't think the rabbit looked terrified, but he definitely did not want to be there. Maybe he's just sick of looking at jumps all day now:lol:

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 08:24 AM
Well the person featured is a breeder of Belgian Hares...and the show will probably increase demand for Belgian Hares, so she will have lots of enquires so I am sure she wanted to get that bit in about breeding...or is that me being cynical??

Nope, just look at the classifieds :roll:

Poor Rabbit :cry:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 08:26 AM
I saw the clip of jasper on daybreak today, he is such a cutie:love:
I don't think the rabbit looked terrified, but he definitely did not want to be there. Maybe he's just sick of looking at jumps all day now:lol:

Thanks :D

I agree, Phoenix wasn't terrified, he just looked bored of jumping. If he was frightened he would have been cowering in a corner with his ears right back. He just sat there, bless him. :lol:

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 08:26 AM
Was going to put a thread up on this, but someones beaten me to it.

Phoenix looked horrified. Trying to make a bunny do anything on demand makes me sad :cry:

:roll:

louise and Gus
31-01-2011, 08:27 AM
Nope, just look at the classifieds :roll:

Poor Rabbit :cry:

Oh yes...even using the show jumping as a "selling point" :roll:

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 08:29 AM
Thanks :D

I agree, Phoenix wasn't terrified, he just looked bored of jumping. If he was frightened he would have been cowering in a corner with his ears right back. He just sat there, bless him. :lol:

Not always true.

A scared bunny can just freeze. Pretty much as it appeared Phoenix was trying to do.

Did you see a 'corner' he could go and cower in? Somewhere 'safe' to hide?

So instead of leaving him be, she picks him up without supporting his backend.

Think it was disgusting, personally.

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 08:41 AM
Not always true.

A scared bunny can just freeze. Pretty much as it appeared Phoenix was trying to do.

Did you see a 'corner' he could go and cower in? Somewhere 'safe' to hide?

So instead of leaving him be, she picks him up without supporting his backend.

Think it was disgusting, personally.

Agreed.

The feature did absolutely nothing to promote Rabbit Welfare.
I can just see the queue of Chavs now, all wanting a 'Novelty Pet' :roll: Something for their Staffie to 'play' with.

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 08:45 AM
Agreed.

The feature did absolutely nothing to promote Rabbit Welfare.
I can just see the queue of Chavs now, all wanting a 'Novelty Pet' :roll:

100% agree with you Jane.

We'll now have loads of people buying bunnies from pet stores, trying to get them 'jumping' at home, the bunny not obliging, then guess where bunny ends up....

Either a) released in a field or b) yet more to a rescue.

*sigh*

shadow05
31-01-2011, 08:48 AM
he was wearing a collar didnt think rabbits could wear them.

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 08:51 AM
he was wearing a collar didnt think rabbits could wear them.

IMO they shouldn't.

People will probably think they can leave a collar on a Rabbit 24/7 and then be oh so surprised when said Rabbit strangles itself :cry:

Honestly, sometimes I despair as to the 'I want to so I WILL' attitude of some of the human race :evil:

I think I might start training Freckle(Hamster) to do competitive Diving :roll:

Tom Daley watch out...............

weeble
31-01-2011, 08:56 AM
Honestly, sometimes I despair as to the 'I want to so I WILL' attitude of some of the human race :evil:

I think I might start training Freckle(Hamster) to do competitive Diving :roll:

Tom Daley watch out...............

:lol::lol: Jane that made me spurt my tea on my laptop!!

Sad but true though :(

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 09:08 AM
Thanks :D

I agree, Phoenix wasn't terrified, he just looked bored of jumping. If he was frightened he would have been cowering in a corner with his ears right back. He just sat there, bless him. :lol:


If this is the general consensus of belief amongst those who 'Show Jump' their Rabbits then it is extremely concerning. It indicates that there is not even basic knowledge of the 'Language' of Rabbits. So they have no idea at all as to how their Rabbit is 'feeling' :cry:

Infact I am now even more anti 'performing' Rabbits than I was before.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 09:14 AM
If this is the general consensus of belief amongst those who 'Show Jump' their Rabbits then it is extremely concerning. It indicates that there is not even basic knowledge of the 'Language' of Rabbits. So they have no idea at all as to how their Rabbit is 'feeling' :cry:

Infact I am now even more anti 'performing' Rabbits than I was before.

My rabbit didn't act like Phoenix did, I just don't think he looks afraid, just fed up :( He's notmy rabbit though so I don't know about how he feels but I think it was a bit unfair with him going on daybreak though tbh and I would never take my bunny on. x

Raven Rexs
31-01-2011, 10:48 AM
Again you must try to defend a rabbit that does not need your help in the slightest, Hes absolutly fine and was just tried of doing jumps for the 4th day i am to tbh. if you listen to what the gentleman asked me ''if hes just a standard rabbit'' which hes not so i said the breed, and ''if he was bred from a special stud'' i replied the truth that he was'nt he was bred from my Baby who was bred from my show buns what was i ment to do LIE????
And i was supporting his backside when i had picked him up.
And as for Chavs queueing for a hare for thier staffie to play Jesus christ that will be one expensive waste of money.
also how would i get loads of enquiries as my website is under my name Raven not Nicole.

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 10:53 AM
Again you must try to defend a rabbit that does not need your help in the slightest, Hes absolutly fine and was just tried of doing jumps for the 4th day i am to tbh. if you listen to what the gentleman asked me ''if hes just a standard rabbit'' which hes not so i said the breed, and ''if he was bred from a special stud'' i replied the truth that he was'nt he was bred from my Baby who was bred from my show buns what was i ment to do LIE????
And i was supporting his backside when i had picked him up.

Sorry, i guess i must of been watching a different show then with a different rabbit being 'picked up' by one hand behind his front legs... (btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-eZ9aWi1w - 0:06.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, voiced or not.

chul
31-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Sorry, i guess i must of been watching a different show then with a different rabbit being 'picked up' by one hand behind his front legs... (btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-eZ9aWi1w - 0:06.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, voiced or not.

:shock::shock: Didnt see this this morning. How awful, poor bun looks scared to death and clearly wasnt held right at all. Only once was its bum supported.

leanne2525
31-01-2011, 11:32 AM
Again you must try to defend a rabbit that does not need your help in the slightest, Hes absolutly fine and was just tried of doing jumps for the 4th day i am to tbh. if you listen to what the gentleman asked me ''if hes just a standard rabbit'' which hes not so i said the breed, and ''if he was bred from a special stud'' i replied the truth that he was'nt he was bred from my Baby who was bred from my show buns what was i ment to do LIE????
And i was supporting his backside when i had picked him up.
And as for Chavs queueing for a hare for thier staffie to play Jesus christ that will be one expensive waste of money.
also how would i get loads of enquiries as my website is under my name Raven not Nicole.

I watched your rabbit and it didnt look scared or terrified iv had rabbits since i was a child and you would know a panic stricken one from a slightly uninterested one , he just didnt wanna jump, and as for the piciking up thing thats just a bit pety, you picked it up fine only time you didnt support bum was when you lifted the bun slightly to move towards jumps , which in my eyes isnt a big deal he didnt try to wriggle or get away he was happy to be held by you, but i guess im out numbered on here and again just MY opinion and as stated on here everyone is welcome to say what they think

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 11:43 AM
This is the email address to contact 'Daybreak' to express opinions and conerns

talk2us@itv.com

'Please include Comment or Enquiry + Topic in to the subject heading and include your name, contact telephone number and nearest town. All emails are read and passed on to the relevant department where appropriate'

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 11:44 AM
This is the email address to contact 'Daybreak' to express opinions and conerns

talk2us@itv.com

'Please include Comment or Enquiry + Topic in to the subject heading and include your name, contact telephone number and nearest town. All emails are read and passed on to the relevant department where appropriate'

:wave:

Cheers Jane.

Amy & Amber
31-01-2011, 11:54 AM
This is the email address to contact 'Daybreak' to express opinions and conerns

talk2us@itv.com

'Please include Comment or Enquiry + Topic in to the subject heading and include your name, contact telephone number and nearest town. All emails are read and passed on to the relevant department where appropriate'


Thanks jane :wave:

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 11:54 AM
:wave:

Cheers Jane.

No probs, sent my email off xx

GrahamL
31-01-2011, 11:57 AM
No probs, sent my email off xx

and me :wave:

I was looking for the contact info earlier, but got caught up at work, thanks for saving me the time :wave:

paulinejoe
31-01-2011, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't personally take a rabbit on telly, but as Leanne says, as far as i could see the only time the hare was picked up to any height his bottom was supported, the other times were just lifting him off the floor for a moment and putting him straight back down again and shoot me down in flames if you will, but i don't put my hand under my buns bottoms every single time i pick them up a few inches off the floor to move them out of the way - for example when they're "helping" me clean their hutch/run and they're sitting on the pile of sweepings - it's literally up-down in a matter of seconds.

Raven Rexs
31-01-2011, 12:28 PM
Sorry, i guess i must of been watching a different show then with a different rabbit being 'picked up' by one hand behind his front legs... (btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-eZ9aWi1w - 0:06.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, voiced or not.

try this one of him :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx5g3BS8S2w
or this one
7.36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo
or even this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sotlA1IvWpE

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 12:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

Bink
31-01-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm afraid I will be complaining, I found the general environment on the set to be completely inappropriate (noise level etc), I also disliked how hilarious everybody found it that he didn't want to do it.

And to Adrian Chiles? You're not much good either.

kk_kayla
31-01-2011, 12:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

there was only 1 rabbit that looked like it was actually enjoying it...al the others looked scared :(

dizzyg
31-01-2011, 12:54 PM
It's very cute, and I'm sure somebuns do love it, but a lot of the buns in that 2nd You Tube clip were on leads with their owners behind them so it looked like they were jumping because they had to. I mean, if I walked behind any of the buns I had, they'd go in the direction I was going, because they thought they were being chased, even if I was slow and quiet. Lots of those buns were stopping and trying to explore.

Call me cynical, or old fashioned, but I love watching bunnies just be. Nothing nicer than watching them play and dig and binky and explore.

mattyp
31-01-2011, 12:57 PM
Unless its a documentary on Rabbit Welfare (which i'm sure we'd all like to see one day) bunnies and tv will never mix.

chul
31-01-2011, 01:00 PM
It's very cute, and I'm sure somebuns do love it, but a lot of the buns in that 2nd You Tube clip were on leads with their owners behind them so it looked like they were jumping because they had to. I mean, if I walked behind any of the buns I had, they'd go in the direction I was going, because they thought they were being chased, even if I was slow and quiet. Lots of those buns were stopping and trying to explore.

Call me cynical, or old fashioned, but I love watching bunnies just be. Nothing nicer than watching them play and dig and binky and explore.

I agree, most ( not all) of the rabbits were only jumping because the owned was pushing their bums :roll:

kayleighjennifer
31-01-2011, 01:06 PM
Being perfectly honest if that was Lola and I was trying to get her to jump she would just sit and look at me:roll:
I dont think some of the rabbits seem to enjoy it, some are forced to go over and thats not "natural":?
I know Mischief and Tinker's Mum rabbit Jasper jumps on and off harness which proves in one way he enjoys it, some rabbits will enjoy it other wont, the cut off point for me would be if the rabbit didnt jump on its own accord its not enjoying the activity:wave:

Grin
31-01-2011, 01:17 PM
This is the email address to contact 'Daybreak' to express opinions and conerns

talk2us@itv.com

'Please include Comment or Enquiry + Topic in to the subject heading and include your name, contact telephone number and nearest town. All emails are read and passed on to the relevant department where appropriate'

Thank you - i will be voicing my concerns.

vee-jay
31-01-2011, 01:28 PM
Phoenix, didnt look scared to me, an i would know, i spent the whole weekend with him. At one point during the weekend he was running along a row of chairs binkying :lol:
When I got thier early on the Sunday morning he was binkying in his cage. He loves the attention and the jumping. Only reason I think he didnt do aswell on daybreak was that for one, he had been jumping all weekend, and 2, the camera was too close to him , he wasent sure what it was. he wasent scared, just interested.

Gillyflower
31-01-2011, 01:30 PM
Glad I didn't watch it but at the moment bunnies could do without this type of exposure. I read in the newspaper that people, yes in the UK, are buying rabbits for the Chinese New Year (Feb 5th) as it's considered lucky obviously if they'll do tricks as well I'm sure they'll think all the better. :shock:

SunshineandTwinkle
31-01-2011, 01:41 PM
Never saw it but cannot comment on Daybreak! However that rabbit jumping bullcrap has made me so mad!!! The noise levels for one would be enough to stress a rabbit.

How can people be so thick as to do this??? Bunnies should be grazing and living a pampered life not being treated as performing monkeys!

Never ever will I use burgess products again!

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Never saw it but cannot comment on Daybreak! However that rabbit jumping bullcrap has made me so mad!!! The noise levels for one would be enough to stress a rabbit.

How can people be so thick as to do this??? Bunnies should be grazing and living a pampered life not being treated as performing monkeys!

Never ever will I use burgess products again!

Dont hold back, say what you really think !! :lol:



PS, I agree with you 100% :D

Bink
31-01-2011, 02:17 PM
Glad I didn't watch it but at the moment bunnies could do without this type of exposure. I read in the newspaper that people, yes in the UK, are buying rabbits for the Chinese New Year (Feb 5th) as it's considered lucky obviously if they'll do tricks as well I'm sure they'll think all the better. :shock:

This. 100% this.

Lillian
31-01-2011, 03:22 PM
I also sent them an email. My mum saw it on Daybreak and was concerned and upset over it. I sent them an email saying I hope in the future they reconsider using animals for entertainment purposes.

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 03:27 PM
I also sent them an email. My mum saw it on Daybreak and was concerned and upset over it. I sent them an email saying I hope in the future they reconsider using animals for entertainment purposes.

:thumb:

VickiP
31-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Oh dear poor little mite, I don't like it, I don't know what was so hillarious either although they do acknowledge he has been doing it 3 days in a row and appear to feel sorry for him, what a shame. I think he definately needs a break to be a hare and do what he wants to do for a while, he is a beauty, I'm sure he'll have a good rest and hopefully get the chance to have a good run around free range now.

DemiS
31-01-2011, 03:44 PM
Never saw it but cannot comment on Daybreak! However that rabbit jumping bullcrap has made me so mad!!! The noise levels for one would be enough to stress a rabbit.

How can people be so thick as to do this??? Bunnies should be grazing and living a pampered life not being treated as performing monkeys!

Never ever will I use burgess products again!

Supreme (Science Selective), Wagg, and many other brands support our rabbit jumping 'bullcrap', just so you know before you change feed :)

happysaz133
31-01-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm usually for rabbit jumping, but that was a horrible clip to watch :( I too thought he looked terrified, he definately wasn't happy yo be there and I thought it was shocking they were all laughing and shouting. I too will put a complaint in I think, poor Phoenix :(

On a happy note :) I did see Jasper jumping well at the beginning!

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm usually for rabbit jumping, but that was a horrible clip to watch :( I too thought he looked terrified, he definately wasn't happy yo be there and I thought it was shocking they were all laughing and shouting. I too will put a complaint in I think, poor Phoenix :(

On a happy note :) I did see Jasper jumping well at the beginning!

Thanks, I have some clips of him jumping on his own free will at the show so people can see that "some" bunnies do love it. :) He goes straight up to the camera at one point. :love: As you can see, I am not pushing him or shoving him, he's doing it when ever he wants too, he is off harness and lead apart from the very last clip of him. I am the girl in the checked shirt and Jasper is the blue dutch. :love: I love him to bits and would never be cruel to him or stress him and it's so upsetting to think some people may be thinking of me like that, hopefully from this clip you will see that Jasper is in no way being forced! :)

http://www.itv.com/tynetees/rabbit-grand-national63822/

vee-jay
31-01-2011, 04:07 PM
http://www.itv.com/tynetees/rabbit-grand-national63822/

LOL thats the clip Demi was on about. Me an her in the background on the laptop!:lol:
aww, look at phoenix at the end. 'MY trophy!' :love:

RubyTed
31-01-2011, 04:15 PM
He looked terrified!! Sorry...but he was not disinterested...he was scared ****less!! :roll::evil:

I'll be complaining, thanks for the link, Jane!!

happysaz133
31-01-2011, 04:24 PM
http://www.itv.com/tynetees/rabbit-grand-national63822/

Oh I like that clip :) they all look really happy, and good of you to get that in there about them being off lead! The black and white bunny is the spitting image of Islay :shock:

Love Phoenix at the end with his trophy, he's wondering why there's no noms in it :lol:

PrincessPinky
31-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Ill still very undecided on rabbit jumping :?

I certainly do not think its cruel though, i mean these rabbits are a 1000 times more looked after than your standard pet shop bunny in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden!!!

prettylupin
31-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Ill still very undecided on rabbit jumping :?

I certainly do not think its cruel though, i mean these rabbits are a 1000 times more looked after than your standard pet shop bunny in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden!!!

That doesn't make it right though. A few rights don't undo a huge wrong IMO! And just because you look after your pet well (which I'm afraid I completely disagree with here because looking after a pet well means being sensitive to ALL its needs as the species it is) doesn't give you a right to use it for your own entertainment. Let's face it, the bunny didn't drive itself to the TV studios now did it!

louise and Gus
31-01-2011, 04:55 PM
i mean these rabbits are a 1000 times more looked after than your standard pet shop bunny in a tiny hutch at the bottom of the garden!!!

How do you know that, they could still be kept in small cages or not vaccinated etc etc

I have seen breeders of "show quality" rabbits kept in terrible conditions

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 05:46 PM
Just re watched Phoenix's clip and must admit he did look a little frightened. :( I know Nicole loves him loads but I think the daybreak people were horrible making him feel so stressed with all the laughing and shouting. He was much happier at the show binkying. :(

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 06:11 PM
How do you know that, they could still be kept in small cages or not vaccinated etc etc

I have seen breeders of "show quality" rabbits kept in terrible conditions

my rabbit jumped but he lives here (without the cupboard, that's extra space for them and there are lots of toys, they were in the run when I took this)
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz21/MischiefandTinkerbelle/DSCF5100-1.jpg

Here is a video of them playing out in the run which is 7ft x 5ft x 2ft :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41QXc3U8l6s


and from the people I know, their buns are very well cared for too. :? I would never take my rabbit anywhere (unless vets to be vaccinated :lol: ) if not vaccinated against myxi and vhd. Also he is neutered and has 2 friends, hopefully soon to be 3. :love: I love him, he loves me and he is very well looked after. :)

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz21/MischiefandTinkerbelle/DSCF7801.jpg

We aren't evil you know :cry: There are some horrible people out there :cry: but myself and I'm sure all the other jumping bunny owners love our rabbits more than anything. :love:

Liz47
31-01-2011, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure if the burgess premeir show does this but most shows check weather the pets being entered are healthy and vaccinated otherwise they aren't allowed to take part.

Jack's-Jane
31-01-2011, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure if the burgess premeir show does this but most shows check weather the pets being entered are healthy and vaccinated otherwise they aren't allowed to take part.

I dont think not being Vaccinated disqualifies them. Few breeders vaccinate.

Tiabrac
31-01-2011, 06:38 PM
I have sent my rant to the show poor little thing, and the owner must have felt rotten I know I would have.

louise and Gus
31-01-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm not sure if the burgess premeir show does this but most shows check weather the pets being entered are healthy and vaccinated otherwise they aren't allowed to take part.

They don't have to be vaccinated for most shows...and the are disqualified from shows if they are neutered I think? :?

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 06:49 PM
They don't have to be vaccinated for most shows...and the are disqualified from shows if they are neutered I think? :?

yep, that's one of the reasons I would never have a show rabbit.

steph182
31-01-2011, 06:51 PM
I'd do jumping, but only at home. I'd never risk exposing my bunny to unneutered/unvaccinated and possibly disease carrying bunnies. What if one got off and attacked another bunny? You couldn't always be quick enough to stop injury. I also think some of the jumps are too high, I wouldn't want to risk my bunny hurting a leg/his spine if he didn't land right - if some bunnys hurt themselves doing binkys they could definatly do it on the higher jumps!

Not that I need to worry about it, Charlie only moves for food and to get comfy to sleep :roll: He only wants to come out the cage about 2 times a week (Despite having hours of free range access per day)

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
31-01-2011, 07:03 PM
I'd do jumping, but only at home. I'd never risk exposing my bunny to unneutered/unvaccinated and possibly disease carrying bunnies. What if one got off and attacked another bunny? You couldn't always be quick enough to stop injury. I also think some of the jumps are too high, I wouldn't want to risk my bunny hurting a leg/his spine if he didn't land right - if some bunnys hurt themselves doing binkys they could definatly do it on the higher jumps!

Not that I need to worry about it, Charlie only moves for food and to get comfy to sleep :roll: He only wants to come out the cage about 2 times a week (Despite having hours of free range access per day)

Completely accept your opinion :) About the hurting their legs thing when binkying, the bars fall straight off if tapped so the bunny can't trap their legs or anything. :) My bun is neutered and vaccinated against both myxi and vhd as well. :wave:

MopsyMops =]
31-01-2011, 07:09 PM
I'm on the fence really. I can see some rabbits LOVE it but others aren't fussed at all! & I don't know why those rabbits are forced to do it and be put into that envioronment?

There was one rabbit at the Burgess show which obviously liked jumping and wasn't fussed with the crowds but then some of the others were just dead scared and obviously didn't want to do it?! If that was my rabbit, even if it excellent at jumping, If I saw it being scared and not fussed I would just take it away straight away.
And, I still don't get why people do the standing behind the rabbit, nudge the rabbit with foot/hand thing.

Viviene (don't know if that is how you spell your name :oops:) but I LOVE it when your little nethie jumps onto your lap :love: That was so cute :love:

If I took Oggie to a show like the Burgess one, I think he actually would have a mini heart attack and literally try and hide in my skin :shock: I personally think they should ask some of the audience to shut up abit - you could clearly see some rabbits were enjoying jumping, then the crowd made a noise which set them off course.

Stephy
31-01-2011, 07:14 PM
I watched your rabbit and it didnt look scared or terrified iv had rabbits since i was a child and you would know a panic stricken one from a slightly uninterested one , he just didnt wanna jump, and as for the piciking up thing thats just a bit pety, you picked it up fine only time you didnt support bum was when you lifted the bun slightly to move towards jumps , which in my eyes isnt a big deal he didnt try to wriggle or get away he was happy to be held by you, but i guess im out numbered on here and again just MY opinion and as stated on here everyone is welcome to say what they think

I agree.

steph182
31-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Completely accept your opinion :) About the hurting their legs thing when binkying, the bars fall straight off if tapped so the bunny can't trap their legs or anything. :) My bun is neutered and vaccinated against both myxi and vhd as well. :wave:

Oh no I know the jumps will fall down, but if a bunny jumps too high and lands awkward he could do damage. The bunny doesn't really know it's not completly solid, so if it overdoes it to clear this solid object, I'd be worried

vee-jay
31-01-2011, 07:21 PM
;4360083']I'm on the fence really. I can see some rabbits LOVE it but others aren't fussed at all! & I don't know why those rabbits are forced to do it and be put into that envioronment?

There was one rabbit at the Burgess show which obviously liked jumping and wasn't fussed with the crowds but then some of the others were just dead scared and obviously didn't want to do it?! If that was my rabbit, even if it excellent at jumping, If I saw it being scared and not fussed I would just take it away straight away.
And, I still don't get why people do the standing behind the rabbit, nudge the rabbit with foot/hand thing.

Viviene (don't know if that is how you spell your name :oops:) but I LOVE it when your little nethie jumps onto your lap :love: That was so cute :love:

If I took Oggie to a show like the Burgess one, I think he actually would have a mini heart attack and literally try and hide in my skin :shock: I personally think they should ask some of the audience to shut up abit - you could clearly see some rabbits were enjoying jumping, then the crowd made a noise which set them off course.

aww thank you :) he is a reall sweetie and loves cuddles/ attention.
Yes crowds can be annoying, they all go AHH when they do a good jump, but it actually puts them off/ makes them stop to listen :lol:

Steno1234
31-01-2011, 07:24 PM
==

Liz47
31-01-2011, 07:24 PM
They don't have to be vaccinated for most shows...and the are disqualified from shows if they are neutered I think? :?

Sorry, I didn't know this. I have only been to little non competitive shows (never to show my rabbits though) were you have to take proof of vaccinations etc. I didn't know about being disqualified if the rabbits are neutered!

mini lop1
31-01-2011, 07:25 PM
Sorry, I didn't know this. I have only been to little non competitive shows were you have to take proof of vaccinations etc. I didn't know about being disqualified if the rabbits are neutered!

yes neutered rabbits cannot be shown

vee-jay
31-01-2011, 07:25 PM
Sorry, I didn't know this. I have only been to little non competitive shows were you have to take proof of vaccinations etc. I didn't know about being disqualified if the rabbits are neutered!

they are only disqualified for being neutered in the shows against the breed standerd. For pet shows/ the jumping it dosent matter :)

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 07:47 AM
;4360083']I'm on the fence really. I can see some rabbits LOVE it but others aren't fussed at all! & I don't know why those rabbits are forced to do it and be put into that envioronment?

There was one rabbit at the Burgess show which obviously liked jumping and wasn't fussed with the crowds but then some of the others were just dead scared and obviously didn't want to do it?! If that was my rabbit, even if it excellent at jumping, If I saw it being scared and not fussed I would just take it away straight away.
And, I still don't get why people do the standing behind the rabbit, nudge the rabbit with foot/hand thing.

Viviene (don't know if that is how you spell your name :oops:) but I LOVE it when your little nethie jumps onto your lap :love: That was so cute :love:

If I took Oggie to a show like the Burgess one, I think he actually would have a mini heart attack and literally try and hide in my skin :shock: I personally think they should ask some of the audience to shut up abit - you could clearly see some rabbits were enjoying jumping, then the crowd made a noise which set them off course.
Yep, most of the rabbits enjoy it :) I don't know if you can tell from some of the videos, but if Jasper stopped in front of a jump, I just stroked him gently so it was up to him whether to jump or lay down (in which case I wouldn't wait for him to jump, I'd take him away) but if he looked like he was going to jump but was too close to the jump, I just moved him back for a bit of a run up. :) Most of the time he just did it though without me because he enjoys it and you can see that from the video I posted earlier. :love:

marmitesmum
01-02-2011, 08:59 AM
I don't think he looked that afraid, just unsure about all of the noise. He could easily have gone to bolt somewhere, rabbits do that when they're afraid too. We all know rabbits are timid creatures but they can also be very strong and determined, like any animal and don't always need to be treated as little fragile things all of the time.

Maybe this could be seen from another point of view that it's showing people that rabbits don't just sit in a hutches munching food. They're clever animals that need stimulation and exercise. Maybe it will tempt a family to finally let their rabbit out on the garden and pay it some attention.

The bunny looked V healthy to me. Although he wasn't picked up the conventional way, I've picked mine up like that and if they're truly used to being handled there shouldn't be an issue with them tryin to kick out and be freed. If you notice when you pick them up like that you can hold their back to you body which gives support to the spine.

Anytime an animal appears on television even if it's a rescue advertising an animal needing a home, there's always going to be the risk of a child saying 'I want one'.

I'll probably be slated for this but I m just expressing my opinion too.

louise and Gus
01-02-2011, 10:09 AM
Maybe this could be seen from another point of view that it's showing people that rabbits don't just sit in a hutches munching food. They're clever animals that need stimulation and exercise. Maybe it will tempt a family to finally let their rabbit out on the garden and pay it some attention.



I'll probably be slated for this but I m just expressing my opinion too.

I think you have some valid point, if it did get people to buy large runs and have fun with their bunny running around/jumping at home rather than being in a hutch that would be a good thing.

Raven Rexs
01-02-2011, 10:29 AM
http://www.itv.com/tynetees/rabbit-grand-national63822/
this one has some nice footage of Phoenix.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 10:38 AM
I think you have some valid point, if it did get people to buy large runs and have fun with their bunny running around/jumping at home rather than being in a hutch that would be a good thing.

Yeah that's what we are aiming to do :D I would never go for entertainment purposes, I went to help educate people on rabbits needing exercise. Lots of people at the show came to talk to me and I told them about how much rabbits love exercise but i told them that not all bunnies like jumping but exercise is essential anyway. :) People were happy to listen so it was good. :D

Raven Rexs
01-02-2011, 10:55 AM
http://www.itv.com/tynetees/rabbit-grand-national63822/
this one has some nice footage of Phoenix.

Oh and the End bit LOL , ''its mine'' Phoenix says

VikkiVet
01-02-2011, 11:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

What i find interesting in this link is that when most of the poles are knocked off, the rabbits jump much more freely and confidently. I.e. making them jump significant heights is difficult and unnatural for them, hence needing persuasion, but when the jumps are much lower as is more likely to occur in real life, they are happier.

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
What i find interesting in this link is that when most of the poles are knocked off, the rabbits jump much more freely and confidently. I.e. making them jump significant heights is difficult and unnatural for them, hence needing persuasion, but when the jumps are much lower as is more likely to occur in real life, they are happier.

:thumb:

Exactly. No one disputes that rabbits like to jump naturally but being coerced into such high jumps is clearly unnatural and not something they would choose to do themselves in the wild - probably because no animal is going to put it's joints under such strain and repetition through choice.

VikkiVet
01-02-2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah that's what we are aiming to do :D I would never go for entertainment purposes, I went to help educate people on rabbits needing exercise. Lots of people at the show came to talk to me and I told them about how much rabbits love exercise but i told them that not all bunnies like jumping but exercise is essential anyway. :) People were happy to listen so it was good. :D

No offence, but I don't believe you! You MUST go for entertainment purposes - if you didnt enjoy it, and if you thought your bun didnt enjoy it (as clearly you believe he does) you wouldn't go surely?! Talking to the public is a bonus sideline - there's no guarantee anyone will talk to you at a show, or that they will listen or remember, or listen to you over anyone else they talk to at the show, which could have opposite opinions.
If your primary objective is to educate people on exercise have a stand or arena showcasing good sized and designed housing options and means of exercise - use large screen videos of rabbits binkying and enjoying themselves. Then people wont be distracted by the spectacle of jumping and go home only remembering "oh werent those jumping rabbits fun, i'll try that with mine...."

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I've just watched that link again and actually found it rather upsetting. It looks like nothing more than toys on leads being made to do what the 'human' wants. There is absolutely no WILL of the rabbit there at all, especially with the first two rabbits. :cry: The poor bunnies just look confused and forced into providing entertainment. Dreadful just dreadful :cry: I find it despicable how we see fit to use animals for our own enjoyment in this day and age and that it is deemed acceptable AND endorsed by Burgess :evil:

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 11:50 AM
Yes Rabbits like to jump, on their terms and what and when they choose. The ONLY one to 'benefit' from public displays of Rabbit Jumping are the humans wanting credit for getting the Rabbit to 'perform'.

It is not necessary to subject a Rabbit, who has absolutely no say in the matter, to the stressful environment of a show or a television studio. The Rabbit could just as easily remain at home in a large secure enclosure with tunnels and obstacles to negotiate should they chose to do so. But of course doing that would not get the human any recognition would it.................

Sorry, but I find ALL forms of the use of animals for entertainment abhorrent.

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 12:00 PM
So is dog agility frowned up on as well then? :?

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 12:04 PM
So is dog agility frowned up on as well then? :?

I just dont see why it has to be done 'on display'. I used to do agility with my BC but at home in her own garden.

It is just my personal opinion that I dont like seeing animals used for the entertainment of humans.

vee-jay
01-02-2011, 12:04 PM
So is dog agility frowned up on as well then? :?

and horse riding?

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 12:07 PM
and horse riding?

Yep, if done in a competitive way. No problem with hacking out in the surrounding coutryside etc but I hate 'shows'.

Grin
01-02-2011, 12:08 PM
and horse riding?


Actually i dont agree with either.

And i sooo agree with Prettylupin because I also find it despicable how we use animals for our own entertainment in this day and age. Making them 'perform' is disgusting - and breeding them for personal enjoyment? That's just disgusting.

Pie
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't know where I stand with rabbit jumping, because yes they like to jump but yes they maybe 'coerced' into jumping higher than what is natural. But I do this with horses, yes the racers love to run and race each other, or show their endurance while on endurance rides, but we have to sometimes push them somewhat into maybe jumping that funny looking ditch they don't want to jump, or giving that last extra bit at the end. The difference is horses can tell usd (in quite painful ways!) when they don't want to do things.
We don't do it to be cruel and would never let them do something that could possibly injure them.
Horses are my life and I so I could only imagine rabbit owners who jump their rabbits would think the same way - alas, that is not always the case. :(

To say 'I am bothered by this' would make me a hypocrite. Until I understand what rabbit jumping entails I don't think I can make a judgment about it.

chul
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't agree with any shows. I watched a horse show once on TV and it was awful :shock:

vee-jay
01-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Yep, if done in a competitive way. No problem with hacking out in the surrounding coutryside etc but I hate 'shows'.

ok, i was just wondering who were against it due to it just being rabbit jumping, or against animals being on show at all.

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 12:12 PM
Well i compete agility with Lexi in shows, she gets the best food available, she has hydro every 2 weeks, she goes agility twice a week and obedience once a week and is alot happier now than when i first had her, when she would nip, jump up, rip things up. She was once a stressed, bored dog and now she enjoys life and loves her agility more than anything, you only have to see a dog doing agility to see they love it, i have NEVER been to a show and saw a dog not like it

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 12:14 PM
I don't know where I stand with rabbit jumping, because yes they like to jump but yes they maybe 'coerced' into jumping higher than what is natural. But I do this with horses, yes the racers love to run and race each other, or show their endurance while on endurance rides, but we have to sometimes push them somewhat into maybe jumping that funny looking ditch they don't want to jump, or giving that last extra bit at the end. The difference is horses can tell usd (in quite painful ways!) when they don't want to do things.
We don't do it to be cruel and would never let them do something that could possibly injure them.
Horses are my life and I so I could only imagine rabbit owners who jump their rabbits would think the same way - alas, that is not always the case. :(

To say 'I am bothered by this' would make me a hypocrite. Until I understand what rabbit jumping entails I don't think I can make a judgment about it.


Good post :wave:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 12:16 PM
No offence, but I don't believe you! You MUST go for entertainment purposes - if you didnt enjoy it, and if you thought your bun didnt enjoy it (as clearly you believe he does) you wouldn't go surely?! Talking to the public is a bonus sideline - there's no guarantee anyone will talk to you at a show, or that they will listen or remember, or listen to you over anyone else they talk to at the show, which could have opposite opinions.
If your primary objective is to educate people on exercise have a stand or arena showcasing good sized and designed housing options and means of exercise - use large screen videos of rabbits binkying and enjoying themselves. Then people wont be distracted by the spectacle of jumping and go home only remembering "oh werent those jumping rabbits fun, i'll try that with mine...."

Well obviously i wouldn't go he didn't enjoy it and i enjoy seeing him having fun. :) But no, I don't go to entertain people, I go to help promote rabbit exercise. Think of it this way, apart from us, who would want to come and watch a film of rabbits binkying in a garden? :( I love it not alot of the general public don't. :cry:

dizzyg
01-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Isn't it that dogs have a different psychology to bunnies? That they have a 'chase' extinct and want to please the 'pack leader' i.e their owner. I'm sure it's good for bored, hyper dogs. I don't think I mind too much if it's at like, a county show outside in a field, it's just I don't like the thought of the lights and noise in those big venues.:?

Anyway...

VikkiVet
01-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Well obviously i wouldn't go he didn't enjoy it and i enjoy seeing him having fun. :) But no, I don't go to entertain people, I go to help promote rabbit exercise. Think of it this way, apart from us, who would want to come and watch a film of rabbits binkying in a garden? :( I love it not alot of the general public don't. :cry:

They wouldn't attend JUST to see the videos, but as part of a larger pet exhibition people WOULD be drawn towards the videos. The point is you get your message across directly, rather than a mixed message provided by a rabbit jumping display.

I haven't said that I am categorically against jumping, just observing from the videos. The longer show video IMO showed a very small number of rabbits appearing to be freely jumping and enjoying it, out of all those shown (and i'm sure many more were that that weren't featured). I think the problem is there probably is a minority of rabbits that love jumping generally (and so would be jumping onto higher objects or over things at their home environment) and then a subset of them that can also cope well with the show atmosphere. But that means there are a MAJORITY of rabbits that can't cope or have to be coerced into it.

Sadly this sport doesn't seem to differentiate between the two - there is no disincentive to compete a reluctant rabbit. In dog agility failure to "perform" leads to disqualification, and they are all off the lead, so only eager animals are used. But anyone can take any rabbit to rabbit jumping, put it on a harness and lead and stroke/shove/nudge it to try to jump, mainly because they realise they are being given no alternative.

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 12:26 PM
For me there is a world of difference between a prey species and a predator species. I abhore any kind of showing/jumping a with prey species, it is wrong.

I have no problem with dogs/horses etc.... although i'm not too keen on horse racing/jumping because of the risk of injury and what that means for the horses future quality of life, or life at all. I'm not particularly keen on dog racing either, because once they've served their purpose these greyhounds are just 'useless' to the trainers. My MIL has 3 rescue greyhounds, but many just disappear :cry:

I don't agree with animals being used solely for our entertainment unless the animal gets something out of it as well. A rabbit jumping/being shown just doesn't - FACT! Dogs/horses - I can see that maybe they enjoy it as well, but i've never been too keen on inflicting 'our' will on animals, I would much rather see my MIL's greyhounds out tearing around the fields, or a pony galloping/jumping around a field of IT'S OWN CHOICE!

vee-jay
01-02-2011, 12:28 PM
For me there is a world of difference between a prey species and a predator species. I abhore any kind of showing/jumping a with prey species, it is wrong.

I have no problem with dogs/horses etc.... although i'm not too keen on horse racing/jumping because of the risk of injury and what that means for the horses future quality of life, or life at all. I'm not particularly keen on dog racing either, because once they've served their purpose these greyhounds are just 'useless' to the trainers. My MIL has 3 rescue greyhounds, but many just disappear :cry:

I don't agree with animals being used solely for our entertainment unless the animal gets something out of it as well. A rabbit jumping/being shown just doesn't - FACT! Dogs/horses - I can see that maybe they enjoy it as well, but i've never been too keen on inflicting 'our' will on animals, I would much rather see my MIL's greyhounds out tearing around the fields, or a pony galloping/jumping around a field of IT'S OWN CHOICE!

why do you think horses (a prey species) may enjoy it but rabbits deffinatly dont?

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 12:51 PM
why do you think horses (a prey species) may enjoy it but rabbits deffinatly dont?

Because EVERY species is different. Horses may well be a prey species but they haven't been predated on for hundreds of years so in effect the prey instinct is far less ingrained than it is in the rabbit.

Not only that, but it is far harder to exert 'our' will over a larger, possibly more intelligent animal. Rabbits are highly intelligent but horses ARE a different species - just because they are all prey species you can't lump them all together. Every species is different and has different needs, fears, limitations. I think it is naieve to assume just because horses enjoy jumping, which they do, that rabbits do also. Anyway, i'm not denying that rabbits don't enjoy jumping, they do, but taking them to shows and having them 'perform' at will is hardly the rabbit's choice.

With a large animal like a horse you can't pick it up and force it over a jump, you can't push it from behind (like in the Burgess clip) because you'll most likely get kicked, and a horse has a bit more weight and size to dig its heels in and refuse to do something. If a horse doesn't want to jump, it won't and there's not much you can do about it. It seems to be acceptable with a 'toy' sized animal to exert our will over theirs. If you had a 15 hand rabbit perhaps you'd think twice about jumping it and making it do your will!

ETA besides the discussion here is NOT whether rabbits enjoy jumping or not, no body disputes that in their own environment and choosing 'what' and 'when' to jump (borrowing Jane's words) that rabbits don't enjoy jumping. Poppy loves it, and Nino loves to binky too. The discussion here is about whether it is acceptable to use this natural behaviour for our own purposes - to provide entertainment. On that basis I don't think it is particularly acceptable whatever the species as I have already stated - I would much rather see ALL animals being the species they are in their natural environment so don't twist the argument!

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 01:02 PM
For me there is a world of difference between a prey species and a predator species. I abhore any kind of showing/jumping a with prey species, it is wrong.

I have no problem with dogs/horses etc.... although i'm not too keen on horse racing/jumping because of the risk of injury and what that means for the horses future quality of life, or life at all. I'm not particularly keen on dog racing either, because once they've served their purpose these greyhounds are just 'useless' to the trainers. My MIL has 3 rescue greyhounds, but many just disappear :cry:

I don't agree with animals being used solely for our entertainment unless the animal gets something out of it as well. A rabbit jumping/being shown just doesn't - FACT! Dogs/horses - I can see that maybe they enjoy it as well, but i've never been too keen on inflicting 'our' will on animals, I would much rather see my MIL's greyhounds out tearing around the fields, or a pony galloping/jumping around a field of IT'S OWN CHOICE!

Your rabbit may not get something out of it, same with 2 of mine who I would NEVER take to a show but you have never met my rabbit Jasper, seen how he acts, how good he is with people, the bond he has with me, you cannot judge what he likes and he does get something out of it! enjoyment and extra time with me. I love him and rescued him and i didn't get him as a jumping bunny but as he loves it, he does it anyway.

Grin
01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Because EVERY species is different. Horses may well be a prey species but they haven't been predated on for hundreds of years so in effect the prey instinct is far less ingrained than it is in the rabbit.

Not only that, but it is far harder to exert 'our' will over a larger, possibly more intelligent animal. Rabbits are highly intelligent but horses ARE a different species - just because they are all prey species you can't lump them all together. Every species is different and has different needs, fears, limitations. I think it is naieve to assume just because horses enjoy jumping, which they do, that rabbits do also. Anyway, i'm not denying that rabbits don't enjoy jumping, they do, but taking them to shows and having them 'perform' at will is hardly the rabbit's choice.

With a large animal like a horse you can't pick it up and force it over a jump, you can't push it from behind (like in the Burgess clip) because you'll most likely get kicked, and a horse has a bit more weight and size to dig its heels in and refuse to do something. If a horse doesn't want to jump, it won't and there's not much you can do about it. It seems to be acceptable with a 'toy' sized animal to exert our will over theirs. If you had a 15 hand rabbit perhaps you'd think twice about jumping it and making it do your will!

ETA besides the discussion here is NOT whether rabbits enjoy jumping or not, no body disputes that in their own environment and choosing 'what' and 'when' to jump (borrowing Jane's words) that rabbits don't enjoy jumping. Poppy loves it, and Nino loves to binky too. The discussion here is about whether it is acceptable to use this natural behaviour for our own purposes - to provide entertainment. On that basis I don't think it is particularly acceptable whatever the species as I have already stated - I would much rather see ALL animals being the species they are in their natural environment so don't twist the argument!


Great post! :thumb:

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Your rabbit may not get something out of it, same with 2 of mine who I would NEVER take to a show but you have never met my rabbit Jasper, seen how he acts, how good he is with people, the come he has with me, you cannot judge what he likes and he does get something out of it! enjoyment and extra time with me. I love him and rescued him and i didn't get him as a jumping bunny but as he loves it, he does it anyway.

I'm not judging anyone. It is simply MY opinion which I am fully entitled to.

What a shame that the only way your rabbit can get extra time and enjoyment with you is through jumping at shows. I seem to be able to get lots of enjoyment and extra time with my rabbits just by being with them at home in the garden.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 01:08 PM
I'm not judging anyone. It is simply MY opinion which I am fully entitled to.

What a shame that the only way your rabbit can get extra time and enjoyment with you is through jumping at shows. I seem to be able to get lots of enjoyment and extra time with my rabbits just by being with them at home in the garden.

I never once said that was the only way he spends time with me, of course it's not! :? It's just another thing he enjoys about jumping, that he's with me. This has been his 2nd ever show and I'v had him more than a year, so obviously it's not the only way I spend time with him. That's just nonsense!:censored: Yes you are entitled to your own opinion but how can you saw such an awful, untrue thing about me? :cry:

Pie
01-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Because EVERY species is different. Horses may well be a prey species but they haven't been predated on for hundreds of years so in effect the prey instinct is far less ingrained than it is in the rabbit.

Not only that, but it is far harder to exert 'our' will over a larger, possibly more intelligent animal. Rabbits are highly intelligent but horses ARE a different species - just because they are all prey species you can't lump them all together. Every species is different and has different needs, fears, limitations. I think it is naieve to assume just because horses enjoy jumping, which they do, that rabbits do also. Anyway, i'm not denying that rabbits don't enjoy jumping, they do, but taking them to shows and having them 'perform' at will is hardly the rabbit's choice.

With a large animal like a horse you can't pick it up and force it over a jump, you can't push it from behind (like in the Burgess clip) because you'll most likely get kicked, and a horse has a bit more weight and size to dig its heels in and refuse to do something. If a horse doesn't want to jump, it won't and there's not much you can do about it. It seems to be acceptable with a 'toy' sized animal to exert our will over theirs. If you had a 15 hand rabbit perhaps you'd think twice about jumping it and making it do your will!

ETA besides the discussion here is NOT whether rabbits enjoy jumping or not, no body disputes that in their own environment and choosing 'what' and 'when' to jump (borrowing Jane's words) that rabbits don't enjoy jumping. Poppy loves it, and Nino loves to binky too. The discussion here is about whether it is acceptable to use this natural behaviour for our own purposes - to provide entertainment. On that basis I don't think it is particularly acceptable whatever the species as I have already stated - I would much rather see ALL animals being the species they are in their natural environment so don't twist the argument!


I agree with alot of your statement but this is very wrong. I am an equine behaviourist and work with troubled/young horses everyday and can assure you there are still very much a prey animals in their minds.
But like you said, due to their size they may appear to be 'braver' than buns. They can (and do) put their foot down and make it known when they don't feel comfortable in a situation. Buns can't do that. :)

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 01:23 PM
I agree with alot of your statement but this is very wrong. I am an equine behaviourist and work with troubled/young horses everyday and can assure you there are still very much a prey animals in their minds.
But like you said, due to their size they may appear to be 'braver' than buns. They can (and do) put their foot down and make it known when they don't feel comfortable in a situation. Buns can't do that. :)

Yes you're right, I wasn't implying that horses have no fear instinct at all, I was just trying to draw a distinction between two very different species. I had my pony bolt and drop me at the sight of a plastic bag in a hedge several times as a child taking riding lessons, and my MIL works with horses too and would agree with you. I just don't think it is a sensible or realistic comparison to make between a 2kg rabbit and a blimmin' great racehorse when talking about our ability to exert our will over animals for the purposes of entertainment.
When my husband's horse (when he was growing up) didn't want to jump in the field, he would systematically dump my husband on the fence.
A rabbit can not show or exert it's will in response or refusal in the same way. :)

It is therefore a ridiculous comparison to make!

Bobbin
01-02-2011, 01:32 PM
Again you must try to defend a rabbit that does not need your help in the slightest, Hes absolutly fine and was just tried of doing jumps for the 4th day i am to tbh. if you listen to what the gentleman asked me ''if hes just a standard rabbit'' which hes not so i said the breed, and ''if he was bred from a special stud'' i replied the truth that he was'nt he was bred from my Baby who was bred from my show buns what was i ment to do LIE????
And i was supporting his backside when i had picked him up.
And as for Chavs queueing for a hare for thier staffie to play Jesus christ that will be one expensive waste of money.
also how would i get loads of enquiries as my website is under my name Raven not Nicole.

I just started to read these and have given up. I was there on Sunday, and thought it was great. The bunnies were all well cared for, praised, cuddled, fed, rested and wouldn't have jumped if they didn't want to (there was one that clearly had enough and he sat on his Mum's knee bing cuddled).

OMG some people are quick to criticise - and also, your bunny's a beautiful lady :love: and rightfully deserves her bling!

vee-jay
01-02-2011, 01:34 PM
Because EVERY species is different. Horses may well be a prey species but they haven't been predated on for hundreds of years so in effect the prey instinct is far less ingrained than it is in the rabbit.

Not only that, but it is far harder to exert 'our' will over a larger, possibly more intelligent animal. Rabbits are highly intelligent but horses ARE a different species - just because they are all prey species you can't lump them all together. Every species is different and has different needs, fears, limitations. I think it is naieve to assume just because horses enjoy jumping, which they do, that rabbits do also. Anyway, i'm not denying that rabbits don't enjoy jumping, they do, but taking them to shows and having them 'perform' at will is hardly the rabbit's choice.

With a large animal like a horse you can't pick it up and force it over a jump, you can't push it from behind (like in the Burgess clip) because you'll most likely get kicked, and a horse has a bit more weight and size to dig its heels in and refuse to do something. If a horse doesn't want to jump, it won't and there's not much you can do about it. It seems to be acceptable with a 'toy' sized animal to exert our will over theirs. If you had a 15 hand rabbit perhaps you'd think twice about jumping it and making it do your will!

ETA besides the discussion here is NOT whether rabbits enjoy jumping or not, no body disputes that in their own environment and choosing 'what' and 'when' to jump (borrowing Jane's words) that rabbits don't enjoy jumping. Poppy loves it, and Nino loves to binky too. The discussion here is about whether it is acceptable to use this natural behaviour for our own purposes - to provide entertainment. On that basis I don't think it is particularly acceptable whatever the species as I have already stated - I would much rather see ALL animals being the species they are in their natural environment so don't twist the argument!

thanks, I was generaly just interested in why you thought that. I was just confused as you said you didnt like it with any prey species but then said it was ok for horses. and this statement "A rabbit jumping/being shown just doesn't - FACT!" but I can see know you were more meaning the being shown rather than jumping.

RampantRabbits
01-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Being perfectly honest if that was Lola and I was trying to get her to jump she would just sit and look at me:roll:
I dont think some of the rabbits seem to enjoy it, some are forced to go over and thats not "natural":?
I know Mischief and Tinker's Mum rabbit Jasper jumps on and off harness which proves in one way he enjoys it, some rabbits will enjoy it other wont, the cut off point for me would be if the rabbit didnt jump on its own accord its not enjoying the activity:wave:

I agree with this. Id love to have a go, but i dont think either of mine would jump without me having to nudge or tempt them. I also dont like using harnesses, so unless i set up some jumps in my hall way and run up and down with their pellets, i cant see it happening. :lol:

I might also consider it if i had a rabbit who was very overweight or inactive and needed more exercise for one reason or another, but my 2 never sit still :lol:

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 01:37 PM
I just started to read these and have given up. I was there on Sunday, and thought it was great. The bunnies were all well cared for, praised, cuddled, fed, rested and wouldn't have jumped if they didn't want to (there was one that clearly had enough and he sat on his Mum's knee bing cuddled).

OMG some people are quick to criticise - and also, your bunny's a beautiful lady :love: and rightfully deserves her bling!

It's not necessarily about being quick to judge. It's about understanding a species and its behaviour and what is natural and what is not. I think there is a distinction to be drawn between 'wanting to do something' and 'being conditioned to do something'. I don't agree with the latter and I don't feel we as a species understand enough about rabbit behaviour to be entirely certain that this is not what is occurring. :)

ETA anyway, i've said my piece now and am now bowing out of this discussion. :)

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 01:46 PM
I agree with this. Id love to have a go, but i dont think either of mine would jump without me having to nudge or tempt them. I also dont like using harnesses, so unless i set up some jumps in my hall way and run up and down with their pellets, i cant see it happening. :lol:

I might also consider it if i had a rabbit who was very overweight or inactive and needed more exercise for one reason or another, but my 2 never sit still :lol:


That would be extremely dangerous !!

Rather like forcing a fat person to run a flippin marathon.

Rabbits are Rabbits, not dogs, horses or any other quadruped. I have not seen or read anything to alter my opinion that Show Jumping Rabbits is inappropriate and done mainly for the benefit of the owner and the entertainment of the audience.

Jaysmonkey
01-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Again you must try to defend a rabbit that does not need your help in the slightest, Hes absolutly fine and was just tried of doing jumps for the 4th day i am to tbh. if you listen to what the gentleman asked me ''if hes just a standard rabbit'' which hes not so i said the breed, and ''if he was bred from a special stud'' i replied the truth that he was'nt he was bred from my Baby who was bred from my show buns what was i ment to do LIE????
And i was supporting his backside when i had picked him up.
And as for Chavs queueing for a hare for thier staffie to play Jesus christ that will be one expensive waste of money.also how would i get loads of enquiries as my website is under my name Raven not Nicole.


:cry: waste of money; so your not denying it may happen, it's just a waste of money, what about if this does happen? What about the poor bunny? :cry:

Jaysmonkey
01-02-2011, 02:16 PM
try this one of him :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx5g3BS8S2w
or this one
7.36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo
or even this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sotlA1IvWpE

I'm actually sickened by how many people make their animal perform. Sickened! :evil:

kayleighjennifer
01-02-2011, 02:27 PM
I would say that this is when a rabbit is most happy "performing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqFHa8adeE :wave:

Jaysmonkey
01-02-2011, 02:33 PM
I would say that this is when a rabbit is most happy "performing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqFHa8adeE :wave:

Haha, she's so cute, I'm coming to your house to meet her, I demand you let me! :lol::love:

Sky-O
01-02-2011, 02:34 PM
I would say that this is when a rabbit is most happy "performing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqFHa8adeE :wave:

:lol:

I've been reading the thread but decided not to comment but this video is hilarious!

dizzyg
01-02-2011, 02:35 PM
I would say that this is when a rabbit is most happy "performing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqFHa8adeE :wave:

:love::love:

She's GORGEOUS.

Yes, I like that, could watch buns doing that for hours...

MopsyMops =]
01-02-2011, 02:36 PM
I would say that this is when a rabbit is most happy "performing"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXqFHa8adeE :wave:

I seriously love that video!!! :love::love::love:

bunniemum
01-02-2011, 02:36 PM
I don't think he looked that afraid, just unsure about all of the noise. He could easily have gone to bolt somewhere, rabbits do that when they're afraid too. We all know rabbits are timid creatures but they can also be very strong and determined, like any animal and don't always need to be treated as little fragile things all of the time.

Maybe this could be seen from another point of view that it's showing people that rabbits don't just sit in a hutches munching food. They're clever animals that need stimulation and exercise. Maybe it will tempt a family to finally let their rabbit out on the garden and pay it some attention.

The bunny looked V healthy to me. Although he wasn't picked up the conventional way, I've picked mine up like that and if they're truly used to being handled there shouldn't be an issue with them tryin to kick out and be freed. If you notice when you pick them up like that you can hold their back to you body which gives support to the spine.

Anytime an animal appears on television even if it's a rescue advertising an animal needing a home, there's always going to be the risk of a child saying 'I want one'.

I'll probably be slated for this but I m just expressing my opinion too.

:thumb:

In my humble opinion, I don't believe Phoenix was 'terrified' or 'petrified' he jumped the first hurdle fine each time, it was only when a bloomin great camera was shoved in his face he became more cautious, even unsure. If he was 'terrified' a BH would have just bolted.

Jaysmonkey
01-02-2011, 02:37 PM
My Max does silly things too
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/th_SDC14221.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/?action=view&current=SDC14221.mp4)

He adores egg boxes :lol:

kayleighjennifer
01-02-2011, 02:43 PM
Haha, she's so cute, I'm coming to your house to meet her, I demand you let me! :lol::love:

You should see her with new people she doesnt leave them alone:roll: she was playing up to the camera crew when they came to my house and completely ignoring me, then again when does lola listen :lol::love:


My Max does silly things too
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/th_SDC14221.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/?action=view&current=SDC14221.mp4)

He adores egg boxes :lol:



:love::love::love::love::love::love:

you have to send that to you've been framed!:lol:

dizzyg
01-02-2011, 02:44 PM
:love:
My Max does silly things too
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/th_SDC14221.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/Jaysmonkey/?action=view&current=SDC14221.mp4)

He adores egg boxes :lol:

CUTE! No wonder you find revising hard when you have that sort of shenanigens going on around you!!

:love:

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 02:45 PM
:lol:

I've been reading the thread but decided not to comment but this video is hilarious!

Just come back to say I totally agree - brilliant video of a happy rabbit playing on its own terms. My Poppy does exactly the same thing with the curtains and it always cracks us up! :D:D This is entertainment in the safety of a bunny's own home. :thumb:

Jaysmonkey
01-02-2011, 02:46 PM
:love:

CUTE! No wonder you find revising hard when you have that sort of shenanigens going on around you!!

:love:

EXACTLY! :lol: see! completely not my fault. When Max goes into these silly eggbox crazes Lola is always really confused :lol:.

Bunnies need to be bunnies; same with any animal. Even if that means my cat Pingu likes eating cardboard boxes. :roll:

kayleighjennifer
01-02-2011, 02:50 PM
Just come back to say I totally agree - brilliant video of a happy rabbit playing on its own terms. My Poppy does exactly the same thing with the curtains and it always cracks us up! :D:D This is entertainment in the safety of a bunny's own home. :thumb:


Being honest my rabbits would never do anything they didn't want to, they are all stubborn, Lola will sit and purr away when I'm brushing her or stroking her and I am always repaid with millions of licks:love:! Lola just cracks me up when she finds house hold items more fun than her bunny toys:lol:

kayleighjennifer
01-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Just found this one of Lola, no empty bag of crisps are safe at the jaws of Polar bear!:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA287O6Tfrg

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 03:07 PM
To be honest i am undecided on this :?

I am certainly not going to sit here and say its cruel though, i have never been to a show and witnessed it and i have never saw the training that goes on so as far as i am concerned i have no right to accuse it of being cruel until i have saw first hand at what goes on.

The same as i dont appreicate people saying dog agility is cruel, until you see how happy the dogs are and how you see the buzz they get from it and the attention to there owner, i cant see how people have the right to accuse it of being cruel!

People can be so judgemental about things. :cry:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 03:29 PM
Yep my Jasper does jumping for fun but I much prefer it when he does this type of jumping.... :love: :D (Not much happens until the middle of the video :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41QXc3U8l6s

However, just because he jumps over hurdles as well for his own pleasure, doesn't make me cruel... :roll:

And for those who want to know how I trained him and I must add it's not cruel in the slightest, here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GduDEqwjPEY&feature=related

Please note: the small run you can see is an old one I used to have for my guinea pigs but they now have a much bigger one. :)

Also to those saying it's not natural, it's not natural to keep bunnies as pets but we do it for their benefit and it's certainly not natural to have house bunnies, that doesn't mean I'm against it and think it's cruel, I would love it if my lot could live inside. :love: It's more natural to have rabbits jumping over objects than having them penned up, no matter how big their pen is. The bunnies must enjoy it, so that's one of the reasons you do it, just the same as "some" rabbits jumping.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about Daybreak? :lol:

marmitesmum
01-02-2011, 03:48 PM
I think the thing is some people have issues with animal entertainment and that's their opinion.

However, to insinuate that some of the people who enjoy teaching their rabbits to jump is comparable to being cruel and unloving to their animals is out of order. I think the people on here seem to be loving and caring to their animals. I mean why be on a rabbit forum, take the time to post about their bunnies and help with the advice of others if you didn't give a flying fiddle. We all care for our rabbits our own ways and letting them have exercise in whatever way they enjoy, I believe, is befitting to them as individuals.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 03:52 PM
I think the thing is some people have issues with animal entertainment and that's their opinion.

However, to insinuate that some of the people who enjoy teaching their rabbits to jump is comparable to being cruel and unloving to their animals is out of order. I think the people on here seem to be loving and caring to their animals. I mean why be on a rabbit forum, take the time to post about their bunnies and help with the advice of others if you didn't give a flying fiddle. We all care for our rabbits our own ways and letting them have exercise in whatever way they enjoy, I believe, is befitting to them as individuals.

Thank you :) That is exactly right. I agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but saying we are cruel and don't love our pets is bang out of order. :? I would never be so horrible and say such a thing when I knew the people did care about their pets from seeing other posts. People can go through all my posts and then you can see how much I do care for my pets. Of course we love them, why else would I be on this forum everyday, sharing stories of my beautiful bunnies or looking at other peoples and helping to give advice etc ?? :)

sillyrabbit
01-02-2011, 03:54 PM
Well the person featured is a breeder of Belgian Hares...and the show will probably increase demand for Belgian Hares, so she will have lots of enquires so I am sure she wanted to get that bit in about breeding...or is that me being cynical??

Nope, not just you being cynical

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 04:04 PM
Who actually used the word 'cruel' or insinuated it? :?

I think that's called putting words into other people's mouths because their opinions don't match yours ;)

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Who actually used the word 'cruel' or insinuated it? :?

I think that's called putting words into other people's mouths because their opinions don't match yours ;)

It was either this thread or another but some people just said "cruel" :( I can promise you I'm not, I love my pets more than anything and that's one of the reasons I'm classed as a freak by some people at school... :roll: :lol: Doesn't make me want to give them up though because I love them!! :love: As I'm sure you love yours. :D

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 04:09 PM
It was either this thread or another but some people just said "cruel" :( I can promise you I'm not, I love my pets more than anything and that's one of the reasons I'm classed as a freak by some people at school... :roll: :lol: Doesn't make me want to give them up though because I love them!! :love: As I'm sure you love yours. :D

Well I haven't used the word cruel in any of my posts so it wasn't me! :)

I do love mine and i'm sure you are right and your Jasper loves to jump. I'm simply giving my opinion as have you. IMO and it is just my opinion, I can not see why Jasper can not enjoy his jumping safely at home away from the stresses of shows/entertainment. If it is all about 'his' enjoyment and not 'human' enjoyment then there would be no need to take him. But he's your rabbit and you must do what you see fit - i've never said otherwise, it's just my opinon not to agree with it. :)

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 04:13 PM
It was either this thread or another but some people just said "cruel" :( I can promise you I'm not, I love my pets more than anything and that's one of the reasons I'm classed as a freak by some people at school... :roll: :lol: Doesn't make me want to give them up though because I love them!! :love: As I'm sure you love yours. :D

You do not have to explain yourself hun, its obvious you care for your animals :love:

marmitesmum
01-02-2011, 04:13 PM
Who actually used the word 'cruel' or insinuated it? :?

I think that's called putting words into other people's mouths because their opinions don't match yours ;)

Didn't I start off by saying other people have their own opinions?? The word cruel was definitely used.

I just think the odd post seemed to be more of a personal attack and I don't think it's fair.

PrincessPinky
01-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Didn't I start off by saying other people have their own opinions?? The word cruel was definitely used.

I just think the odd post seemed to be more of a personal attack and I don't think it's fair.

Agreed

CharlotteMc
01-02-2011, 04:21 PM
I took my rabbit burgess show aswell to jumo. I love my rabbits very much adn would do anything for them , if they were stressed at shows then i wouldnt take them. All rabbit are different! Just becasue some peoples rabbits get stressed at shows, doesnt mean that ALL rabbits do !

prettylupin
01-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Didn't I start off by saying other people have their own opinions?? The word cruel was definitely used.

I just think the odd post seemed to be more of a personal attack and I don't think it's fair.

Show me where I made a personal attack and I will apologise. Because I haven't! So don't copy my posts to highlight your own agenda.

Bunnyaddict
01-02-2011, 05:24 PM
Never saw it but cannot comment on Daybreak! However that rabbit jumping bullcrap has made me so mad!!! The noise levels for one would be enough to stress a rabbit.

How can people be so thick as to do this??? Bunnies should be grazing and living a pampered life not being treated as performing monkeys!

Never ever will I use burgess products again!

:thumb::thumb::thumb: Spot on post me thinks!!! :D

Completely agree with you - I sadly felt physically sick watching those links posted by RR :cry:

The noise was far too loud to me watching it on a pc, so god knows how the poor terrified bunnies felt.

Sorry to be blunt (& this will come as no surprise to any of you!) but forcing a rabbit into a 'show jumping arena' like that is down right selfish!! It's all done to meet the good old 'human wants!!!' :roll:

I just find it astounding that people *think* their bunnies like being in such environments!

We have bunnies here that love jumping & running round - but god forbid in an environment like that they'd have a heart attack!!

marmitesmum
01-02-2011, 05:37 PM
Show me where I made a personal attack and I will apologise. Because I haven't! So don't copy my posts to highlight your own agenda.

You asked me who said cruel and I answered your question by copying your post. Explaining that I'd already said people have their own opinion.

I have not aimed anything at you. I was explaining that some of the posts seemed to be personal. I have not onced used your name or implied that you said anything of the sort. I only quoted you to reply when asked about the cruel comment.

I have NO agenda. Just the mutual adoration of Bunnies.

VikkiVet
01-02-2011, 05:53 PM
I think Jack's Jane may have said coercing or forcing them to jump (as perceived in the videos) is cruel, but I apologise if I have misquoted her.

The comments about all rabbits vs some rabbits enjoying it I believe i covered in a previous post but no-one has replied to it.

I also dont see dog agility as cruel as IMO its a different sport from a different perspective.

I don't agree with "jumping is more natural than penning them up, regardless of pen size" - its more natural to let them behave in whatever way they see fit, in a suitably large pen/area/room etc - be that lazing around, running around like a mad thing, jumping onto or over things et etc - the point is that they are choosing what to do, how much of it to do and when. They have the option and aren't being coerced. I am totally in favour of people setting up suitable safe jumps in their houses and letting the buns have a go, its the loud noises, crowds, temperatures, infection risk, fight risk, stress and general coercion I object to.

chloemurray
01-02-2011, 05:59 PM
Emma, we all know you adore your bunnies, it's YOUR choice whether you take Jasper to compete in jumping shows and you do not/should not have to feel as though you must justify your actions on here.

And to those who don't agree with rabbit jumping, I think your points have been made very clear:) Like Emma said earlier actually, it's not natural to keep animals as pets at all, but we do it for human enjoyment. No one here is better than anyone else in that respect so yeah... Of course the shows are for human enjoyment, and there will always be awful owners who disregard the welfare of their rabbits at shows such as these... but that's no reason to make the owners who know their bunny's character and what they can cope with, feel bad:wave:

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 06:51 PM
I think Jack's Jane may have said coercing or forcing them to jump (as perceived in the videos) is cruel, but I apologise if I have misquoted her.

.

Apology accepted as I did not use the word 'cruel'.

Infact I think the only person who did was Mischief and Tinker's Mum !!

Jack's-Jane
01-02-2011, 06:54 PM
Emma, we all know you adore your bunnies, it's YOUR choice whether you take Jasper to compete in jumping shows and you do not/should not have to feel as though you must justify your actions on here.

And to those who don't agree with rabbit jumping, I think your points have been made very clear:) Like Emma said earlier actually, it's not natural to keep animals as pets at all, but we do it for human enjoyment. No one here is better than anyone else in that respect so yeah... Of course the shows are for human enjoyment, and there will always be awful owners who disregard the welfare of their rabbits at shows such as these... but that's no reason to make the owners who know their bunny's character and what they can cope with, feel bad:wave:

But why should what we (those who dont like the idea of Rabbit Show Jumping) think matter if those who participate feel it is the right thing to do. All I am doing is expressing my opinion :)

Bunnyaddict
01-02-2011, 06:59 PM
Emma, we all know you adore your bunnies, it's YOUR choice whether you take Jasper to compete in jumping shows and you do not/should not have to feel as though you must justify your actions on here.

And to those who don't agree with rabbit jumping, I think your points have been made very clear:) Like Emma said earlier actually, it's not natural to keep animals as pets at all, but we do it for human enjoyment. No one here is better than anyone else in that respect so yeah... Of course the shows are for human enjoyment, and there will always be awful owners who disregard the welfare of their rabbits at shows such as these... but that's no reason to make the owners who know their bunny's character and what they can cope with, feel bad:wave:

All I'll say is that's just it isn't it?

It's Emma's choice to take Jasper, as it's anyone else's choice to take their rabbit to a completely unatural, artificial environment that could cause potential stress to a prey animal! :?

What CHOICE does the poor bun get? :? Absolutely none!! :(

I'm afraid I do think it's cruel, regardless of how much someone professes to love or adore their rabbit!! But of course that's my opinion & not everyone will have the same opinion.

I just couldn't subject any rabbit of ours such a stressful environment! It's bad enough taking them to the vets never mind putting them in an environment full of hundreds of people, people speaking over loud tannoys, laughing, clapping & cheering etc, etc!!

On that note I'll leave this thread because all these types of threads do is wind me up no end!!! :roll:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 07:02 PM
I would just like to share these photos of Jasper :) This was at the show and those who are saying ALL bunnies are stressed at these events, you are wrong because Jasper was very happy as you can see from these photos of him in a runaround at the show. xx

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz21/MischiefandTinkerbelle/DSCF0966.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz21/MischiefandTinkerbelle/DSCF0967.jpg

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
01-02-2011, 07:18 PM
All I'll say is that's just it isn't it?

It's Emma's choice to take Jasper, as it's anyone else's choice to take their rabbit to a completely unatural, artificial environment that could cause potential stress to a prey animal! :?

What CHOICE does the poor bun get? :? Absolutely none!! :(

I'm afraid I do think it's cruel, regardless of how much someone professes to love or adore their rabbit!! But of course that's my opinion & not everyone will have the same opinion.

I just couldn't subject any rabbit of ours such a stressful environment! It's bad enough taking them to the vets never mind putting them in an environment full of hundreds of people, people speaking over loud tannoys, laughing, clapping & cheering etc, etc!!

On that note I'll leave this thread because all these types of threads do is wind me up no end!!! :roll:

He doesn't mind travelling in the car, he doesn't mind noise due to where I got him from and if he was scared I would not keep him there, we would go straight home, I'm not evil and I love my pets more than anything. So if he didn't want to be there I would know by his behaviour and he does have a choice.

I'm 14 and I obviously love my rabbits if they are the only reason I work to get money to afford things for them. I hardly ever spend my money on me, just my pets. I just paid for their vaccinations, they are all neutered or spayed and live in a shed, have a huge run and lots of toys. I also show them loads of love and spend lots of time with them everyday. I am not cruel and I am not the only one who had a rabbit jumping at the show and you are making it seem like I am the only one. I am not cruel and neither is anyone else who took part. Some of the jumping buns are rescues x

chloemurray
01-02-2011, 07:58 PM
All I'll say is that's just it isn't it?

It's Emma's choice to take Jasper, as it's anyone else's choice to take their rabbit to a completely unatural, artificial environment that could cause potential stress to a prey animal! :?

What CHOICE does the poor bun get? :? Absolutely none!! :(

I'm afraid I do think it's cruel, regardless of how much someone professes to love or adore their rabbit!! But of course that's my opinion & not everyone will have the same opinion.

I just couldn't subject any rabbit of ours such a stressful environment! It's bad enough taking them to the vets never mind putting them in an environment full of hundreds of people, people speaking over loud tannoys, laughing, clapping & cheering etc, etc!!

On that note I'll leave this thread because all these types of threads do is wind me up no end!!! :roll:

I haven't actually expressed my opinion on rabbit jumping at all, so before everyone immediately thinks I'm all for it, I'm not. I think my dwarf lop would love it, but I'd never take her to a show because the girl I plan to bond her with (my lionhead Nahla) would be terrified of the environment there.. I would not want to put her through being afraid and I also wouldn't want to separate them all day. So there that's my opinion:lol:

With my first post I was just trying to point out that Emma was obviously getting upset and felt as though she had to defend herself, which bothered me because like you all keep saying, "everyone is entitled to their opinion" and we should be able to give them without argument:) Debating is great, but not when one person feels a bit jumped on:wave:

Azraelm
01-02-2011, 08:06 PM
keep things friendly please :wave:

Evangeline
01-02-2011, 08:22 PM
I wonder how many people take their kids to pagents or allow them to play in sports which could hurt themselves all for entertainment purposes...

Of course they could do all that in their own home!:roll:

It really is double standards. Rabbit shows are seen as unnatural, well house rabbits could be considered unnatural then, in fact all pet rabits to seeing as they were once wild.

All I see from this post is alot of opinions about using rabbits for the entertainment industry is wrong, I agree with that I do, but Mischief and Tinkers mum has explained she isn't doing it for that, and that she wants to raise awareness. Someone mentioned that their are other alternatives..yes maybe for an adult.

I just think all this talk of "its my own opinion" yes it is your quite right but theres making your point and then theres forcefully trying to put it on other people and making them feel bad for having theirs. Just because its your opinion doesn't mean your right.

Adding my two cents, we shouldn't be forcing rabbits to do anything :)

Oh and by the way this is MY opinion ;)

CharlotteMc
01-02-2011, 08:33 PM
I wonder how many people take their kids to pagents or allow them to play in sports which could hurt themselves all for entertainment purposes...

Of course they could do all that in their own home!:roll:

It really is double standards. Rabbit shows are seen as unnatural, well house rabbits could be considered unnatural then, in fact all pet rabits to seeing as they were once wild.

All I see from this post is alot of opinions about using rabbits for the entertainment industry is wrong, I agree with that I do, but Mischief and Tinkers mum has explained she isn't doing it for that, and that she wants to raise awareness. Someone mentioned that their are other alternatives..yes maybe for an adult.

I just think all this talk of "its my own opinion" yes it is your quite right but theres making your point and then theres forcefully trying to put it on other people and making them feel bad for having theirs. Just because its your opinion doesn't mean your right.

Adding my two cents, we shouldn't be forcing rabbits to do anything :)

Oh and by the way this is MY opinion ;)

^^ well said ^^

VickiP
01-02-2011, 11:55 PM
All I'll say is that's just it isn't it?

It's Emma's choice to take Jasper, as it's anyone else's choice to take their rabbit to a completely unatural, artificial environment that could cause potential stress to a prey animal! :?

What CHOICE does the poor bun get? :? Absolutely none!! :(

I'm afraid I do think it's cruel, regardless of how much someone professes to love or adore their rabbit!! But of course that's my opinion & not everyone will have the same opinion.

I just couldn't subject any rabbit of ours such a stressful environment! It's bad enough taking them to the vets never mind putting them in an environment full of hundreds of people, people speaking over loud tannoys, laughing, clapping & cheering etc, etc!!

On that note I'll leave this thread because all these types of threads do is wind me up no end!!! :roll:

:wave: I agree with you - I don't like it, but, I didn't say much because these threads tend to have the same affect on me too :lol:

Grin
02-02-2011, 06:59 AM
All I'll say is that's just it isn't it?

It's Emma's choice to take Jasper, as it's anyone else's choice to take their rabbit to a completely unatural, artificial environment that could cause potential stress to a prey animal! :?

What CHOICE does the poor bun get? :? Absolutely none!! :(

I'm afraid I do think it's cruel, regardless of how much someone professes to love or adore their rabbit!! But of course that's my opinion & not everyone will have the same opinion.

I just couldn't subject any rabbit of ours such a stressful environment! It's bad enough taking them to the vets never mind putting them in an environment full of hundreds of people, people speaking over loud tannoys, laughing, clapping & cheering etc, etc!!

On that note I'll leave this thread because all these types of threads do is wind me up no end!!! :roll:

Great post.

I often say this but i sooo wish our bunnies could talk.

I saw a vid of a bunny doing 'tricks' but tbh, it just looked like the poor thing wanted noms. The rabbit was chasing someones hand around cones etc - it wasnt 'rabbit agility' - it was rabbit teasing. And why? For HUMAN entertainment - you cant tell me that was for the rabbits benefit. :roll:

And as for trying to educate people about rabbit welfare - honestly, dont be so patronising - thats not why you are there - it's to satisfy your own selfish need to make your rabbit behave like a performing monkey and show off.

And that's just my humble opinion.

vee-jay
02-02-2011, 07:18 AM
I saw a vid of a bunny doing 'tricks' but tbh, it just looked like the poor thing wanted noms. The rabbit was chasing someones hand around cones etc - it wasnt 'rabbit agility' - it was rabbit teasing. And why? For HUMAN entertainment - you cant tell me that was for the rabbits benefit. :roll:



thats the point of training....they get a reward at the end :?
the rabbit enjoys learning and getting the treat at the end. I have a bun at home who I sometimes do clicker training with, I started it as he was bored and becoming destructive. He loves it and when ever i get the clicker out binkys around his cage lol

Grin
02-02-2011, 07:20 AM
thats the point of training....they get a reward at the end :?
the rabbit enjoys learning and getting the treat at the end. I have a bun at home who I sometimes do clicker training with, I started it as he was bored and becoming destructive. He loves it and when ever i get the clicker out binkys around his cage lol


So for an hours worth of teasing the poor thing, the reward is worth it? :roll:

vee-jay
02-02-2011, 07:33 AM
So for an hours worth of teasing the poor thing, the reward is worth it? :roll:

an hour ?
if the rabbit decided he didnt want the treat, then he would stop doing it lol, if he didnt think it was worth it, he wouldnt continue with it ;)

Grin
02-02-2011, 07:35 AM
an hour ?
if the rabbit decided he didnt want the treat, then he would stop doing it lol, if he didnt think it was worth it, he wouldnt continue with it ;)

It didnt look like fun to me - it just looked like teasing. :roll:

Who's benefit is it done for? Not the rabbit - most def to stroke the ego of the human. :roll: Such a shame to get these bunnies to perform.

In the comfort of their own home is fine but with travel, crowds etc? Cant be all that comfortable for the buns.

vee-jay
02-02-2011, 07:47 AM
It didnt look like fun to me - it just looked like teasing. :roll:

Who's benefit is it done for? Not the rabbit - most def to stroke the ego of the human. :roll: Such a shame to get these bunnies to perform.

In the comfort of their own home is fine but with travel, crowds etc? Cant be all that comfortable for the buns.

regarding the trainging thing (It has already been pointed out many times on this thread the various possible reasons why people may not like teh idea of doing it at a show)

Its just like a toy. Would you say getting a treat ball with treats in it teasing? what about one of those willow balls that there are treats in the middle?
the rabbits find it fun to get to the treats. Its providing mental stimulation for the rabbit, entertaining it.

Grin
02-02-2011, 07:50 AM
It's the show thing i have a problem with the most. I certainly dont see that as entertaining for the rabbit. :shock:

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 07:53 AM
I just wondered that given you are educating about exercise and stimulation and such, what information do you guys have available for the public to help educate them about those things?

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 08:00 AM
I just wondered that given you are educating about exercise and stimulation and such, what information do you guys have available for the public to help educate them about those things?

For outside buns, if possible they should have supervised free ranging in a safe enviroment everyday or every 2 or 3b days, but they most definately need a run of 6ft x 4ft x 2ft high. They should have exercise in it everyday and have a large hutch but bigger is better and I said i have a shed for my buns. :)

Then I said that not all rabbits enjoy jumping so if they will happily hop over hurdles on their own free will then continue with it but if not, don't do it at all. :)

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 08:02 AM
If an outside bun, if possible supervised free ranging but they most definately need a run of 6ft x 4ft x 2ft high. They should have exercise everyday and have a large hutch but bigger is better and I said i have a shed for my buns. :)

Then I said that not all rabbits enjoy jumping so if they will happily hop over hurdles on their own free will then continue with it but if not, don't do it at all. :)

That's great you tell people that, but written info would be far more educational, for sure.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 08:06 AM
That's great you tell people that, but written info would be far more educational, for sure.

Yep, there were some a hutch is not enough leaflets being given out near by. :D I look at it this way, if people like us and rescues and rwaf didn't go to the show, the public will have most likely have been given bad information by some of the breeders there, yes some would give suitable info but definately not all. :(

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 08:11 AM
Yep, there were some a hutch is not enough leaflets being given out near by. :D I look at it this way, if people like us and rescues and rwaf didn't go to the show, the public will have most likely have been given bad information by some of the breeders there, yes some would give suitable info but definately not all. :(

If this is truly about info, then I would suggest getting info yourselves and giving it out, that way you know its being give out wherever you go and you can get all the right info, appropriate to what you are educating about too. That means you guys are takin responsibility for educating people yourselves as opposed to just putting on a 'show'. Obviously you won't always be at a big rabbit show and there will be times when the info around is a lot less, so if you always have your info to take then you will know the message you are trying to get across is being communicated in a variety of ways.

DemiS
02-02-2011, 08:18 AM
So for an hours worth of teasing the poor thing, the reward is worth it? :roll:

Harley follows my finger (and me) when he knows I have no treats in my hand. He dosen't understand how to do the weave cones himself but at home if you left him to himself he happily goes over the jumps and through tunnels by himself, and he's constantly jumping up onto boxes

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 08:19 AM
If this is truly about info, then I would suggest getting info yourselves and giving it out, that way you know its being give out wherever you go and you can get all the right info, appropriate to what you are educating about too. That means you guys are takin responsibility for educating people yourselves as opposed to just putting on a 'show'. Obviously you won't always be at a big rabbit show and there will be times when the info around is a lot less, so if you always have your info to take then you will know the message you are trying to get across is being communicated in a variety of ways.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but my parents wouldn't take me to shows just to stand their giving out leaflets. :( The shows are quite expensive to go to as well so we only go if we really can and is for a reason like one of my buns jumping. I love my rabbits and people can say what they like butit doesn't mean they are right, for example saying I go to show off my bunny, of course not, how awful, i go to do my bit to help and Jasper has done a small jumping display to raise money for 2 rabbit rescues on this forum :) A rescue that was there had two rescue buns with them and they were very chilled out. :love:

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Yeah, I know what you mean, but my parents wouldn't take me to shows just to stand their giving out leaflets.

It shouldn't have to be either or. You don't even need to give them out. Just have a stand you can whip up quickly that can go right near the jumping arena so that when you guys are in there 'doing your thing' the appropriate information is there, being made available by yourselves.

Might help some people see you are genuinely interested in educating people and promoting rabbit welfare too. ;)

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 08:32 AM
It shouldn't have to be either or. You don't even need to give them out. Just have a stand you can whip up quickly that can go right near the jumping arena so that when you guys are in there 'doing your thing' the appropriate information is there, being made available by yourselves.

Might help some people see you are genuinely interested in educating people and promoting rabbit welfare too. ;)

That's a great idea! :D thanks :)

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 08:34 AM
That's a great idea! :D thanks :)

:) No prob. The more opportunities there are to get info out there the better.

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 08:41 AM
It shouldn't have to be either or. You don't even need to give them out. Just have a stand you can whip up quickly that can go right near the jumping arena so that when you guys are in there 'doing your thing' the appropriate information is there, being made available by yourselves.

Might help some people see you are genuinely interested in educating people and promoting rabbit welfare too. ;)

That's a great idea! :D thanks :)

nursecroft
02-02-2011, 08:50 AM
I personally don't see the point, the clip of daybreak makes me cringe, if he doesnt want to do it then why keep on at him? Bunnies are like cats, they do as they please when they want. I dont like watching clips of people shoving their rabbit and pulling them around on a harness to jump a fence :? Daybreak clearly saw it as a big joke, if it were me I'd be embarrassed and certainly would not have wanted my rabbits in that studio surrounded by cameras and loud people.

The greatest satisfaction of all for me is watching my buns binkying and tearing round the garden having fun where they are comfortable and free. :)

dizzyg
02-02-2011, 10:23 AM
That's a great idea! :D thanks :)

OOooo..you could have a little table and laminate some photos of Jasper in action and the run set up you have at home. Most venues would have a spare table and maybe even display boards knocking around. You could probably fit all you needed into a carrier bag...

:wave:

vee-jay
02-02-2011, 12:36 PM
I just wondered that given you are educating about exercise and stimulation and such, what information do you guys have available for the public to help educate them about those things?

We did have for some other shows leaflets, I cant remeber exactly what was on them tho, will have to ask Demi.
This show, we just talked to anyone who was interested and explained how they are quite intelligent and need lots of exersise etc (I often mentioned that out of my 5 rabbits only one likes the jumping, so its not for everybun).
The commentator frequently explained to people about how exercise is important etc.
It would be really nice if we could get some more leaflets, it costs to get them made/printed etc tho, and this is already an expensive hobby lol
We do plan on making some more up, especially for our next show around June.

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 12:42 PM
We did have for some other shows leaflets, I cant remeber exactly what was on them tho, will have to ask Demi.
This show, we just talked to anyone who was interested and explained how they are quite intelligent and need lots of exersise etc (I often mentioned that out of my 5 rabbits only one likes the jumping, so its not for everybun).
The commentator frequently explained to people about how exercise is important etc.
It would be really nice if we could get some more leaflets, it costs to get them made/printed etc tho, and this is already an expensive hobby lol
We do plan on making some more up, especially for our next show around June.

You could easily contact the RWA and ask for some of their leaflets on exercise and stimulation. Often written info works best in situations like this, but its good you're trying :)

dizzyg
02-02-2011, 12:57 PM
Also, you could mention things like making mazes out of boxes and stuff so people know that, while the expensive things you buy are great, buns are just as happy destroying cardboard (like small children really).

Vee-jay, I think it's really positive that you, Demi Smith and M&T's Mum are doing all that you are to demonstrate the need for exercise. I'm sure some rescues would also be happy to give you leaflets.

Do you get accredited for this at school? It's just it's the type of thing that would look good on uni apps and stuff because you are all doing it independently. I just think it would be nice. Might be worth asking someone like Connexions?

Sorry, getting carried away here!

Keep up the good work!:love:

Tiabrac
02-02-2011, 01:43 PM
I haven't read all of the replies just wondering if the show mentioned the emails they received?

DemiS
02-02-2011, 03:49 PM
:) No prob. The more opportunities there are to get info out there the better.

That is a good idea. The RWA sent me loads of leaflets when I told them I was a breeder so I have a lot spare :)

Sky-O
02-02-2011, 04:10 PM
That is a good idea. The RWA sent me loads of leaflets when I told them I was a breeder so I have a lot spare :)

Awesome :D

I have ready made display info if any of that is of any use and anyone wants to chat about it, just drop me a PM :)

sillyrabbit
02-02-2011, 07:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

Ok I seriously do not understand what the point even is if they are having to keep going and poking or pushing the rabbits to make them jump :?

MopsyMops =]
02-02-2011, 07:09 PM
Ok I seriously do not understand what the point even is if they are having to keep going and poking or pushing the rabbits to make them jump :?

I agree sillyrabbit!! I don't get that at all!

CharlotteMc
02-02-2011, 07:40 PM
Horses arent natural Jumpers and they are prey animals just like rabbits, but people think its ok for horse to jump at shows then why not rabbits who are natural jumpers ?

Crunchie
02-02-2011, 07:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

There's not a single rabbit in that video clip that doesn't look like it wants to be somewhere else. :?

antigone
02-02-2011, 08:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teksrfIljgo

Awful :cry:

I agree. :cry:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Awesome :D

I have ready made display info if any of that is of any use and anyone wants to chat about it, just drop me a PM :)

thanks :)

VickiP
02-02-2011, 09:05 PM
Horses arent natural Jumpers and they are prey animals just like rabbits, but people think its ok for horse to jump at shows then why not rabbits who are natural jumpers ?

I think that was addressed earlier in the thread if you look back and read all the posts.:)

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
02-02-2011, 09:08 PM
Horses arent natural Jumpers and they are prey animals just like rabbits, but people think its ok for horse to jump at shows then why not rabbits who are natural jumpers ?

yeah, it all depends on the personality of the bun or horse though. Any decent person would never force an animal to do something they don't want to, just like me and you. We love our rabbits and am I right in thinking Russell may be doing a display to help raise money for the RSPCA? :love:

CharlotteMc
02-02-2011, 09:21 PM
yeah, it all depends on the personality of the bun or horse though. Any decent person would never force an animal to do something they don't want to, just like me and you. We love our rabbits and am I right in thinking Russell may be doing a display to help raise money for the RSPCA? :love:

yes he may be asked to do so , they havent got back to me yet :D

CharlotteMc
02-02-2011, 09:22 PM
I think that was addressed earlier in the thread if you look back and read all the posts.:)

oh sorry :lol: havent read the other hundred threads, my bad :lol:

VickiP
02-02-2011, 09:33 PM
oh sorry :lol: havent read the other hundred threads, my bad :lol:

:lol: I think PrettyLupin did an exceptional job of explaining the difference - I couldn't have explained anywhere near as good as she did - it's a fair question I think but, she more than covers it I think ;)

nursecroft
02-02-2011, 10:24 PM
Horses arent natural Jumpers and they are prey animals just like rabbits, but people think its ok for horse to jump at shows then why not rabbits who are natural jumpers ?

I never have to shove winston at a fence :? its trying to stop him thats normally the problem! :lol: Horses have been bred for centuries to carry people, I wouldnt expect a shire horse to be a showjumper, some horses arent built to jump but you cannot compare horses to rabbits, thats ridiculous :lol:

CharlotteMc
03-02-2011, 07:30 PM
nevermind :wave:

Sky-O
03-02-2011, 07:42 PM
I had a weird dream last night about a horse sized rabbit (a specific rabbit- belonging to a member on here- that was the size of a horse- didn't look like the real rabbit does though). And I think this thread is to blame. Thanks! :lol:

Mischief and Tinker's Mum
03-02-2011, 07:45 PM
I had a weird dream last night about a horse sized rabbit (a specific rabbit- belonging to a member on here- that was the size of a horse- didn't look like the real rabbit does though). And I think this thread is to blame. Thanks! :lol:

:lol: