Bad vet advice help needed (really long post please read)

As some of you are aware i lost harley at the begining of december to what i belived to be kidney fauilre.
Well I have been to back to the vet on 3 seprate occasions with Honey because she has been grieveing and been told on all occasions to get a new rabbit and was given her cream cause she was lying in her urine and needed to prevent scoldding, I have been treating her and been back to the vets to be told the only real option is to get her a friend.
So i made the arragements with a well known rabbit rescue to get Honey a new fella and was all set to get Honey back on trak.
So i met with the rescue today with Honey to be asked has she been treated for ec !! after having a closer look and explaning about EC and Harley's symptoms i was advised to ask the vets to see if he had been tested,
I went straight to my vets and asked at the reception if Harley had been tested for EC she bought his notes up andd said "oh he's died" to that she said "sorry i dont know what some of the things say on the notes ill have to get someone to call you" I wasnt happy with this so said id wait,

The receptionist looked a bit flustered and went away and bought a vet out, who took me in a side room and asked why i wanted to know,
So i explained what id been told and she wanted the rescue's number to ask why they had told me that which i refused to give, They said there was no point in testing him as it wouldnt help, HELLO i have another bunny!!

So i said i was worried that if Harley had it then the chances of honey having it was strong and noone even mentioned EC all i was told was get another bunny and being charged £50 a time, She said if i got Honey out the carrier it would cost me a additional £35, I said i just wanted the meds and to go home, I feel the vets have let me down, I was offered to put Harley asleep before they checked him out, I think in the last month ive spent around £400 in bills and to top it all off when i went out the consultation room all the receptionist was huddled round my notes, And when i paid the lady noticed there was no consultation fee and had to check it was right,
I feel this is bad practice by my vets and i am moving Honey to another, When i picked vets i went for the one that had the best reputation, i have a vets round the corner to me which i think i may move her to.

I feel i should make a complaint but just dont know where to start and who to complain to. Ive prob missed bits out but its all going on in my head like what if Harley had EC he could have been treated and still with us

Thanks for reading

Firstly I am really sorry for the loss of your boy Harley!
I am fully behind you on the decision to find a new vets they sound incompitent!
I had to complain once to a vets due to a rude member of staff and I am trying to remember how I went about it niw? Hmm
You could call them annonomously snd ask who you would direct a complaint to or write a letter and address it to the practice manager.
In regards to EC obviously there is no way to know now if this is what Harley had, I am assuming you did not get a pm done? I dont blame you, I dont think I could have done either just the thought of their little body going through that
IMO I would give Honey a course of panacur for the full 28 days, you can buy it st vets, pets at home now stock it and also vet uk online.

I would put everything that occurred in writing to the Practice Manager with a copy to the Head Vet.

You could include some documented information about EC

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm


I would also indicate that you expect a reply within 7 working days.

I would expect them to arrange a face-to-face meeting between you, the Vet giving poor advice and the Head Vet (if not the same)

I am sorry that you now find yourself in this situation it must be distressing

Thank you in taking the time to read it, I thought they did a pm im sure they said they did but according to his notes they didnt, they put it down to kidney faulire, Honey is now on the 28 day course of pancuar and also pro biotic as well.
Thank you Jane for the advice i will be taking it further with them and have already found a new vets, so fingers crossed ill hear back from them

Also my bunny has been round my friends cat, Could EC be passed to her??

I think something to be aware of is that EC knowledge is somewhat dodgy and different vets believe different things, for different reasons.

Some vets believe Fenbendazole (Panacur) is ineffective because it doesn't penetrate the blood brain barrier, some vets feel you should routinely treat, others feel you shouldn't and that its risky to do that, and there are many more variants. So it may be that their beliefs and knowledge about EC just differ from vets practices nearby.

Some vets do the EC titre, but some feel its pointless because it is not an accurate test and the only way to get a conclusive diagnosis is on a PM after death. Some say the levels going up is an indicator that they have it actively, others say they are just shedding spores, etc, so that may be why they didn't think the test was worth doing.

The majority of rabbits carry EC, which was brought up at the RWA conference last year and the vets basically said they didn't know about most aspects of EC, which I take to mean that if those vets don't know, then neither does anyone else, really. The issue was raised though that if the majority of rabbits carry it (such as pastuerella) then should rabbits be treated for it because it only comes up when the rabbit is run down, also like pastuerella, and rabbits are only treated for pastuerella if they show symptoms.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the vets may be able to explain why they made the choices they did, but for you and your peace of mind, you need to hear those explanations, I think.

I will put my hand up and say it was me who met with Nicola
She described Harley's symptoms..incontinence and hind leg weakness..then I saw Honey..who was badly urine stained..Nicola has done a grand job of keeping her as clean as possible and stopping her skin getting sore


But I felt , due to Harley's death and Honey's state..I could not bond her at present and would want her treated for EC if she was mine
I did point out to Nicola that I'm not a vet and I didn't see Harley..and her vets may well have been right in letting him go if the damage to his organs was severe..Nicola told me a pm had shown kidney failure..but now seems no pm done:?

The fact Honey is quiet and not herself could well be down to pining for a partner..but Nicola has been back 3 times to show the urine problem and each time has been told this is down to pining and sold cream to stop sore areas
I've never known a bun to become incontinent due to pining
Hence my recommendation of treating for suspected EC

With the symptoms described in both buns I too would expect treatment for EC (after seeing a vet of course - though knowing my vets very well I suspect that is exactly what they would say unless there was something else obvious).

I have had several EC active rabbits (as well no doubt as EC dormant) and although agree that sometimes EC just lurks and waits for rabbit to be 'down' for another reason and then leaps in, sometimes there seems no apparent explanation why the EC becomes active when it does - although several have been at that 'middle age' period of 5-6 years when it started to show and I wonder if it might be related to degenerative changes then?

Re the specific case - I would back every that has suggested writing down a full record, making an official compliant AND changing vets. However for your own peace of mind personally I would not pursue and pursue the case - as it will just make you hurt - just make enough of a complaint that you feel staisfied and that they will also pay more attention to the next rabbit owner so it does not happen again.

:wave: Just wanted to clarify that I don't disagree with what the resceu said (be it you, Jill, or any other rescue), we would most likely have done the same if this situation presented to us because you have to protect your own animals as well as looking at the welfare of the others.

I was literally just trying to explain why the vet may have made the decisions s/he did. Yes, the vet may be rubbish, but there may just be different beliefs and knowledge involved too, that's all

Hope that makes sense.

Sky-O..I agree and explained this at the time..I said EC is really still not completely understood..but I was surprised that such bad incontinence could be put down to pining ..and said what I would do if it was my rabbit

honeybunny said:

Sky-O..I agree and explained this at the time..I said EC is really still not completely understood..but I was surprised that such bad incontinence could be put down to pining ..and said what I would do if it was my rabbit

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I just didn't want you to think I was getting at you or critising what you said or anything . I do agree completely, EC aside, that incontinence of any sort needs to be fully investigated and not just be put down to pining.