So called 'treats' for rabbits

Why is it that so called 'treats' from pet stores etc are so bad for our bunnies

I bought a bag of hay the other day from our local store as i always do, but they have a minimum card transaction of £5. The hay is £4.99 :roll:

So i bought a 'Harvest Munch' treat for 89p to take it over the limit.

It's one of these;



(i used P@H image, as its the first one google gave me )

Description is;

A wholesome tasty treat of seeds, nuts, cereals & vegetables With honey.

Click to expand...

They absolutely loved it. But now Ginger's got horrible poops I never give them a whole treat like this, but i totally forgot to take it out - normally i'd make it last ~3-4 days and take it out after an hour or so.

They are all small and dark and wet. Not her normally gorgeous mrgreen golden big crumbly poops.

So, why are all these 'treats' so bad for the buns, and should stores really be allowed to sell things like this?

Debate (but a good one please!)

it's right up there with cotton wool bedding for hamsters and those awful corn on the cob things.

It's the same logic as, why are they allowed to sell sweets to children I guess. It's sad that unsavvy owners will think they're treating their pets but actually doing damage to them, I used to take everything I saw and heard in a pet shop as gospel because I didn't know where else to get advice from.

ETA: I think they're so bad because they're very processed, and the cereals, seeds and nuts are not good for them, they're basically the bits they'd pick out of muesli

I don't usually get treats for my buns....as they just don't need them....but I prefer treats ^^^such as the above, that take a while to nom, so it can be a boredom breaker type thing.

Sorry Ginger has bad poops...she's such a little bunny and that looks like a big treat.

RubyTed said:

I don't usually get treats for my buns....as they just don't need them....but I prefer treats ^^^such as the above, that take a while to nom, so it can be a boredom breaker type thing.

Sorry Ginger has bad poops...she's such a little bunny and that looks like a big treat.

Click to expand...

Yeah, its about the size of Biscuit's head I feel awful for forgetting to take it out, its totally my fault. Now they're both having nothing but hay until tonight when they get their pellets. Need to get that little tummy back into a better state.

Feel really bad about it

I agree bigger treats that take time to eat are best, but i can't find many that are any good

Don't feel bad Gray :wave: I used to give my hamsters one of those massive honey sticks each a week.

I'm a bit stingy with treats but there are loads of lovely natural treats on Hay Experts if you want to get them some. Try putting them in a treat ball so they last longer. Mine love Fenugreek Crunchies and Pineapple and Papaya Chunks. They do some lovely herbal treats as well. Everything on Hay Experts seems perfectly safe for buns. Steer well clear of Johnsons for any treats or basic medical stuff like their tea tree oil. Brands like Burns and SupaPets (I think it's called that) do some nice treats.

If you give them nothing but hay it should be fine :wave: Madame Lucy had some funny poops after their second go at the bread but she was fine by the end of the day. As long as Ginger is still pooping it's fine.

Nicola1 said:

Don't feel bad Gray :wave: I used to give my hamsters one of those massive honey sticks each a week.

I'm a bit stingy with treats but there are loads of lovely natural treats on Hay Experts if you want to get them some. Try putting them in a treat ball so they last longer. Mine love Fenugreek Crunchies and Pineapple and Papaya Chunks. They do some lovely herbal treats as well. Everything on Hay Experts seems perfectly safe for buns. Steer well clear of Johnsons for any treats or basic medical stuff like their tea tree oil. Brands like Burns and SupaPets (I think it's called that) do some nice treats.

If you give them nothing but hay it should be fine :wave: Madame Lucy had some funny poops after their second go at the bread but she was fine by the end of the day. As long as Ginger is still pooping it's fine.

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Normally thats the only treats they get, FC's, Barley rings, or Burns bagged treats (like Blackcurrent & Apple, or 'Natures Salad' etc).

She's still pooping, i just know that its not right. Bad Gray!

GrahamL said:

Normally thats the only treats they get, FC's, Barley rings, or Burns bagged treats (like Blackcurrent & Apple, or 'Natures Salad' etc).

She's still pooping, i just know that its not right. Bad Gray!

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just avoid Johnsons like the plague! I wonder if they are made by Johnsons the cosmetics company who are equally evil....

Some buns must be fine on them, you wouldn't know until you tried

Aww, sorry about Ginger's poops. We all make mistakes like that though (well I certainly do) so don't feel so bad. I've never actually bought anything like that, but Spenser sometimes gets presents from well-meaning friends. He usually ignores 'bunny junk food' but a kebab-type thing from P@H went down very well and definitely had an impact on his poops and nomming of 'proper bunny food.'

Like sweets for kids, I don't think theses things are inherently wrong - the boredom-breaker factor is certainly relevant if circumstances oblige you to keep a single bun. They certainly shouldn't be marketed as 'healthy' though, even although some of the ingredients are good for buns.

Gray...maybe you should take up baking, to make your very own healthy bunny treats!!

RubyTed said:

Gray...maybe you should take up baking, to make your very own healthy bunny treats!!

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:lol:

You've never seen me cook.

I must be the only person in the world who can get beans on toast wrong :wave:

GrahamL said:

Why is it that so called 'treats' from pet stores etc are so bad for our bunnies

I bought a bag of hay the other day from our local store as i always do, but they have a minimum card transaction of £5. The hay is £4.99 :roll:

So i bought a 'Harvest Munch' treat for 89p to take it over the limit.

It's one of these;

(i used P@H image, as its the first one google gave me )

Description is;



They absolutely loved it. But now Ginger's got horrible poops I never give them a whole treat like this, but i totally forgot to take it out - normally i'd make it last ~3-4 days and take it out after an hour or so.

They are all small and dark and wet. Not her normally gorgeous mrgreen golden big crumbly poops.

So, why are all these 'treats' so bad for the buns, and should stores really be allowed to sell things like this?

Debate (but a good one please!)

Click to expand...

Answer:
Seeds - high in protein, risk of impaction and outer husks can damage teeth
Nuts - high in protein
Cereals - high in starch
Vegetables - show me the vegetables!
Honey - high in sugar

Protein, sugars and starch all end up in the caecum as they are small molecules where they upset the caecal flora balance, fermentation and the feedback mechanisms for both gut motility and other complex processes.

No, stores should not be allowed to sell things like this but when did that ever stop them when profits are all that manufacturers care about, and the shop owners are clueless as to what stock they are buying in and how appropriate it is. All these 'treats' do is play on the anthropormorphising attitude that pet owners have towards their pets that they are giving them something that is a 'treat' like sweets for a child, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Gray i'm just answering your question above ABSOLUTELY NO REFLECTION ON YOU, don't feel bad, these things happen, as a one-off you will have done Ginger and Biscuit no harm, a few days of hay and they will be right as rain I promise

prettylupin said:

Answer:
Seeds - high in protein, risk of impaction and outer husks can damage teeth
Nuts - high in protein
Cereals - high in starch
Vegetables - show me the vegetables!
Honey - high in sugar

Protein, sugars and starch all end up in the caecum as they are small molecules where they upset the caecal flora balance, fermentation and the feedback mechanisms for both gut motility and other complex processes.

No, stores should not be allowed to sell things like this but when did that ever stop them when profits are all that manufacturers care about, and the shop owners are clueless as to what stock they are buying in and how appropriate it is. All these 'treats' do is play on the anthropormorphising attitude that pet owners have towards their pets that they are giving them something that is a 'treat' like sweets for a child, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Gray i'm just answering your question above ABSOLUTELY NO REFLECTION ON YOU, don't feel bad, these things happen, as a one-off you will have done Ginger and Biscuit no harm, a few days of hay and they will be right as rain I promise

Click to expand...

Good Answer, ta

Thanks everyone else too, i just feel that i've knowingly given Ginger a bad gut time, i knew the treat wasn't good, but didnt want to waste it and they both enjoyed it

That said, after a night of nothing but hay and still nothing but hay at the moment (i'm holding off on veges/herbs til a little later than usual to encourage hay nomming). Look what Ginger's poops look like as of 20 minutes ago:



Yes, i'm another one of those odd people who crumbles up poo to check its consistency - i'm another one of those poo freaks :lol:

They are a little small compared to normal, but very firbrous again, which is awesome Clever little girl!

aaah bless little G! As for oyu big G - well you werent to know & at least oyu know what to do for little G's tummy! Her poops looking great - go girly go!:lol:

My treats for the buns are a few pellets in a treat ball which they onlyget if they come into the lounge and play on the rug usually...otherwise its Hay!:roll::lol: and dried herbs - not too many fresh herbs for mine as it also upsets their tummys....so usually usually apple branches, rosemary, rose leaves petals, lemon balms, brambles, marigolds etc
Those are the treats - kinda essential for variety thats mine get. Hope this gives you some more ideas....:wave:

Nicola1 said:

it's right up there with cotton wool bedding for hamsters and those awful corn on the cob things.

It's the same logic as, why are they allowed to sell sweets to children I guess. It's sad that unsavvy owners will think they're treating their pets but actually doing damage to them, I used to take everything I saw and heard in a pet shop as gospel because I didn't know where else to get advice from.

ETA: I think they're so bad because they're very processed, and the cereals, seeds and nuts are not good for them, they're basically the bits they'd pick out of muesli

Click to expand...

Those dried hard 'Corn on the Cobs' are awful I'd never give a rabbit one of those

I have those little carrot orangey treats you get from P@H and although my rabbits love them I know they must be awful for them, so they only get one every 3/4 days. It's just that they clearly love whats bad for them (a bit like people) and I enjoy their reactions when they get a treat.

Since making my own, i've never bought shop bought ones. I dont think i'd go back now after reading this! :shock:

Gray - glad Ginger is pooping ok again.

Ugh I hate the majority of rabbit treats in shops If I buy 'treats' (I tend to make my own) then I tend to go for herbs/natural treats which I sprinkle into their hay

Glad little Ginger is alright, don't blame yourself, it was a total mistake

ETA - Would you like the treat recipe I use?

prettylupin said:

Answer:
Seeds - high in protein, risk of impaction and outer husks can damage teeth
Nuts - high in protein
Cereals - high in starch
Vegetables - show me the vegetables!
Honey - high in sugar

Protein, sugars and starch all end up in the caecum as they are small molecules where they upset the caecal flora balance, fermentation and the feedback mechanisms for both gut motility and other complex processes.

No, stores should not be allowed to sell things like this but when did that ever stop them when profits are all that manufacturers care about, and the shop owners are clueless as to what stock they are buying in and how appropriate it is. All these 'treats' do is play on the anthropormorphising attitude that pet owners have towards their pets that they are giving them something that is a 'treat' like sweets for a child, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.

Gray i'm just answering your question above ABSOLUTELY NO REFLECTION ON YOU, don't feel bad, these things happen, as a one-off you will have done Ginger and Biscuit no harm, a few days of hay and they will be right as rain I promise

Click to expand...

Very well put PL :thumb:
I believe that we can add dietary variety but not with shop bought treats.

We can grow culinary herbs (Except chives) in pots or the garden for both ourselves & the buns eg. parsley, basil, corriander, dill, thyme, mint, margoram (oregano) chamomile. Fennel needs to be in the ground, as do rosemary, lavender, & borage.

We can gather some very common weeds even in towns & cities & dry them or feed fresh eg plantains both species, dandelions, mayweed, pineapple mayweed. Geranium pratensis (meadow cranesbill) is available as a garden plant as is Achillea (yarrow), marigolds, scented red rose petals & leaves are also a favourite. The best is a large bush, Rosa rugosa, (Rosa galea is very difficult to obtain).

Fruiting bushes include raspberry leaves, fruiting currant - black red & white, blueberry, thornless blackberry, apple, pear (+ pruned twigs with bark) can be bought as miniature trees only 6' high.

Some are available ready dried from herbalists such as Galen's garden.

There are safe tree leaves such as hawthorn, (the standard field hedges) silver birch, hazel, willow,(gathered on a trip to the country - Willow almost invariably grows near a stream or river)

These are the real treats for bunnies. They won't "go" for all of them. I guarantee that you'll be amazed how your buns love them - no mucky bums & have the softest glossiest coats imaginable, because they are all low in sugars & proteins.

There is a further possible reason currently under research why we should avoid high sugar/proteins for bunnies. There is a theory that the metabolic products from the caecum could cause excessive tooth growth & contribute to dental problems.

If you want to know more about drying methods & what we're gathering, see thread http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=239131

Don't worry your really supposed to introduce new foods to a bunny's diet over a period of days so their stomach can get used to the change in diet it will just mean they have a bit of an upset tummy especially as they ate it so quickly they will be fine

There aren't many "treats" from pet shops that are worth parting with your money for.

Some of the naturals range are ok as they don't have loads of unnecessary sugers and other ingredients added, but personally I'd rather save my money and go and pick them some weeds!