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View Full Version : Breeding Rabbits For Meat Very Angry!!



Tasmin's MOB
19-01-2011, 08:55 AM
I am sooooo :censored::censored::censored: angry!!!!!!!!

Simon's boss who is a very close friend of ours, was round at ours last night and decided to tell us 'rabbit lovers' about his brothers plans for breeding New Zealand Whites for meat :evil::evil::evil:

We both flipped our lids :evil:

He seemed to think that his brother would give them a 'good life' before he slaughters them as he already has a massive list of animals. Just because he has loads of animals doesn't mean he looks after them well!!!!

Is this illegal??

What do I do?? :cry:

ETA: It gets me so angry after reading about how rescues have gone out of there way to help buns get the best life possible and be loved and then people like this obviously don't give a :censored: about them and go breeding them for food

KarenM
19-01-2011, 09:07 AM
I don't think it's illegal, no.

Personally I couldn't do it, but I think as long as the rabbits have a healthy, happy life beforehand (in the right housing, plenty of space etc) then I don't have a problem with other people doing it.

Of course, if the bunnies live a miserable existence up until the point they're killed then that's a different matter entirely.

It was very insensitive to tell you though, as it's pretty obvious you would have found it upsetting, being a bunny owner yourself.

katiebob
19-01-2011, 09:10 AM
No, it's not illegal...

I agree, I'd rather they were bred by someone who cared about their welfare whilst they were alive...

paulinejoe
19-01-2011, 09:14 AM
I don't think it's illegal, people do it with cows, pigs, chickens, ducks etc I just think because it's a rabbit it seems more wrong as they are such a common pet, it's the same with horse and dog meat isn't it, we all recoil at the thought of it but in France and Korea respectively they think nothing of eating those meats.

I personally would have been upset too though to have heard that and it was insensitive to have told you of all people!

Tasmin's MOB
19-01-2011, 09:15 AM
I don't think it's illegal, no.

Personally I couldn't do it, but I think as long as the rabbits have a healthy, happy life beforehand (in the right housing, plenty of space etc) then I don't have a problem with other people doing it.

Of course, if the bunnies live a miserable existence up until the point they're killed then that's a different matter entirely.

It was very insensitive to tell you though, as it's pretty obvious you would have found it upsetting, being a bunny owner yourself.

I see what you are saying and i have always had this opinion too and it's the reason that I buy free range eggs and free range meat etc but it just really upset me after seeing those bunnies from PACT that were being bred for meat :cry:

I'm probably getting a bit too worked up about it but he was telling me that he was going to kill them with his own hands and how can anyone genuinely care enough about the buns to research there diets, behaviour and needs if they have the ability to kill them like this?

It's just hard to believe that these buns would have a decent life before they die... thank you for your reply KarenM xxx

Tasmin's MOB
19-01-2011, 09:20 AM
Thank you for all of your replies, I think i will just have to try to forget about it :(

Abd yes it was insensitive of him but I think he did it on purpose to annoy me (he tends to do this a lot)

BigwigLess
19-01-2011, 09:21 AM
It comes down to whether you are emotionally attached to the species or not. I can't eat rabbit or hare any more for that very reason. If however a person is keeping livestock, it makes good sense to give that animal the best quality of life possible. It's basic good animal husbandry and I just see it as common sense.

Still a little insensitive to bring it up over dinner as it were.

Fluffers
19-01-2011, 09:23 AM
I see what you are saying and i have always had this opinion too and it's the reason that I buy free range eggs and free range meat etc but it just really upset me after seeing those bunnies from PACT that were being bred for meat :cry:

I'm probably getting a bit too worked up about it but he was telling me that he was going to kill them with his own hands and how can anyone genuinely care enough about the buns to research there diets, behaviour and needs if they have the ability to kill them like this?

It's just hard to believe that these buns would have a decent life before they die... thank you for your reply KarenM xxx

As well as how they are treated whilst alive, this is the bit that I would very concerned about. HOW an animal is killed matters & makes a HUGE difference.

Tasmin's MOB
19-01-2011, 09:23 AM
It comes down to whether you are emotionally attached to the species or not. I can't eat rabbit or hare any more for that very reason. If however a person is keeping livestock, it makes good sense to give that animal the best quality of life possible. It's basic good animal husbandry and I just see it as common sense.

Still a little insensitive to bring it up over dinner as it were.

hmmm.. ok this does makes sense, I'm slowly calming down now

KarenM
19-01-2011, 09:26 AM
I'm probably getting a bit too worked up about it but he was telling me that he was going to kill them with his own hands and how can anyone genuinely care enough about the buns to research there diets, behaviour and needs if they have the ability to kill them like this?

It seems incomprehensible to us I suppose because we couldn't imagine doing it to one of our own beloved bunnies. But I do think it's possible to care about an animal AND be able to kill them (humanely of course) as well..... still not something I could do myself though.

Whether this person does actually keep the bunnies in humane conditions remains to be seen of course. I doubt you could dissuade them from doing it if their mind is made up, but they may just change their minds when the time to 'do the deed' actually comes.

If the bunnies do end up being kept in sub-standard conditions, then I wouldn't hesitate to report him - does the RSPCA still have jurisdiction if they're livestock as opposed to pets?

Tasmin's MOB
19-01-2011, 09:28 AM
As well as how they are treated whilst alive, this is the bit that I would very concerned about. HOW an animal is killed matters & makes a HUGE difference.

completely agree.

ETA: perhaps I could find out more about it

VickiP
19-01-2011, 10:49 AM
No it's not illegal (although I think it should be) also if he is breeding them for meat rabbits he will only be required to meet Defra regulations for housing them etc - this is where I have a problem, I think it's wrong to have 50 rabbits stacked up one on top of another in 2-3ft hutches, the urine from the top ones drips down the back of the hutches so the ones at the bottom get a really poor deal.

Because they are bred for meat they very often don't get exercised or toys or interaction/affection - I also have a problem with the culling at home because I feel someone should have to at least have a training course on it and demonstrate an ability to do it before being allowed to go it alone.

If it's to sustain human life like an African village I can cope with it, to have a choice of meat that is 'home grown' is fine providing all the requirements for the animals welfare are being met and there is a clear ability to cull them properly. Actually the wastage from culling rabbits for meat is massive, they aren't a cost effective animal to eat in my opinion. I also reserve judgement about the animals being kept in 'farmed' conditions in a back garden being better off that animals in a 'supermarket' type shed set up - for me there is very little difference and it's all completely unnecessary, what next cat and dog meat - I think not - this is the UK and the sooner people accept that rabbits make fabulous pets, they are the UK's 3rd most popular pet and that it's socially not acceptable to be eating them the better for me, there is already an enourmous amount of meat available to eat, there's no need for it and if someone really has the desire to do it then they should afford the rabbits better conditions than 'battery chickens' in terms of housing and conditions which sadly is how most do keep them.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 10:52 AM
completely agree.

ETA: perhaps I could find out more about it

This bit is generally 'necking' they hold the back legs stretch the rabbit out and twist upwards I beleive breaking the neck - then they obviously skin it and butcher it.

Sky-O
19-01-2011, 11:01 AM
I would agree with trying to find out more about it. I think its natural to presume the worst, but just because some people do carry out the worst, not everyone does.

If a rabbit has a good life (good accommodation, space, loe, good diet, fresh water, etc) and is humanely killed then that is what matters the most.

On the topic of killing, I think you can kill even if you love the animal. There have been people on here who have allowed animals to be free from their suffering. I would hope that if I had no other choice, that I would be able to do that too for the sake of the rabbit.

That's a slightly different issue, but it is related because people can care and kill. Killing does not necessarily mean cold heartedness.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 11:08 AM
I would agree with trying to find out more about it. I think its natural to presume the worst, but just because some people do carry out the worst, not everyone does.

If a rabbit has a good life (good accommodation, space, loe, good diet, fresh water, etc) and is humanely killed then that is what matters the most.
On the topic of killing, I think you can kill even if you love the animal. There have been people on here who have allowed animals to be free from their suffering. I would hope that if I had no other choice, that I would be able to do that too for the sake of the rabbit.

That's a slightly different issue, but it is related because people can care and kill. Killing does not necessarily mean cold heartedness.

For all of 3 months - rabbits generally culled for meat don't make it past 3 months.

I also think that being able to kill anything - does require an amount of 'detachment' it's not coldness it's a detachment from emotions though, most slaughtermen will admit it and probably why there aren't many women slaughtering animals - to dress it up as perfectly natural is to suggest we are still savages - in the day's of cavemen etc yes of course people killed to survive - it's now 2011 to make that choice for me is quite detached and demonstrates a certain amount of contempt for what is deemed 'socially' acceptable.

Interestingly as I said on another thread, I've done my own research on this in my area and have yet to find a butcher that sells rabbit meat or anyone who eats rabbit meat, in fact everyone I've spoken to including older meat eaters have said 'no I've eaten it after the war' but, I couldn't do it now, there is no need.'

ETA - the reason most farmers prefer to use slaughterhouses isn't only practicality - they are unable to raise their animals then cull them, it most definately requires a person who is detached from emotion, for this reason farmed rabbits are denied one of the biggest things we know our rabbits enjoy which is company and affection, the person culling cannot become emotionally involved with the animals, the really confusing thing for me is people who keep pet rabbits and meat rabbits - fathom the mindset there because I can't.

lillian03
19-01-2011, 11:17 AM
Rabbit doesn't even fetch that much at the butchers, so why would someone bother will all the upkeep, breeding etc, when you only get 4 TOPS for a dead rabbit? (rabbit round here is 5 each).

One would assume, that if he is breeding for the food chain, in this country, he would need to pass certain DEFRA checks, is he aware of this?

Most rabbit available in the butchers is wild, so exempt from food standards palava, but I think if you're breeding and keeping for that purpose you would need to passport, vet, and have certain living conditions. I know this is true of MOST animals. In which case, the return for these rabbits wouldn't be worth getting out of bed in the morning, surely?

I confess, I have shot (and eaten) wild rabbit. But in the farming community rabbits are viewed as vermin and totally different scenario from eating domestic rabbits. I adore rabbits, and am all for welfare of even a wild rabbit. A wild rabbit has run free, filled it's belly with corn and led a good life. Rules is rules, never shoot a young rabbit, and always always shoot a sick rabbit and leave it in the hedgerow for the animal food chain. In my opinion, anyway.

Sky-O
19-01-2011, 11:17 AM
Forget it. Its not even worth it.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 11:25 AM
Hmm, not sure where I said it was perfectly natural.

I just said the two don't have to be totally separate.

Yes, I think you do have to be able to detach, but in the example I was using (which I did say was different) people have killed for the sake of the animal- for example a wildie who has been badly hit by a car who wouldn't cope with or maybe make it to the vets.

I don't know how long meat rabbits live for, but even if its three months they still deserve a good life and even if it is only for three months, that's far better than suffering. Yes, three months is no length of life, but quality over quantity is important, in my eyes.

I know you didn't say that you thought it was natural but, you were implying that it's not unusual or that difficult and that people are generally 'normal' and yet able to cull animals - I think thats wrong, I don't think it's brave and anyone culling a road accident animal needs to be very careful that the animal is beyond repair before doing it, I would call out a vet or take the animal to a vet and thats not because I'm squeamish even it's because I would always wonder if I'd extinguished life unnecessarily. Any animal injured badly enough to be fatal won't last very long at all and is probably in shock or coma like state anyway so not feeling much pain even if it appears to be alive.

I completely agree with you about the rabbits deserving a good life for the 3 months prior to culling, sadly anyone raising meat rabbits aren't concerned about that aspect IMO.

Jack's-Jane
19-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Forget it. Its not even worth it.

Everything you say is VERY 'worth it' :)

Personally I think it very hypocritical to eat anything that one would not kill themself. IMO if one cant do the killing why do the eating ?

lillian03
19-01-2011, 11:35 AM
For all of 3 months - rabbits generally culled for meat don't make it past 3 months.

I also think that being able to kill anything - does require an amount of 'detachment' it's not coldness it's a detachment from emotions though, most slaughtermen will admit it and probably why there aren't many women slaughtering animals - to dress it up as perfectly natural is to suggest we are still savages - in the day's of cavemen etc yes of course people killed to survive - it's now 2011 to make that choice for me is quite detached and demonstrates a certain amount of contempt for what is deemed 'socially' acceptable.

Interestingly as I said on another thread, I've done my own research on this in my area and have yet to find a butcher that sells rabbit meat or anyone who eats rabbit meat, in fact everyone I've spoken to including older meat eaters have said 'no I've eaten it after the war' but, I couldn't do it now, there is no need.'

ETA - the reason most farmers prefer to use slaughterhouses isn't only practicality - they are unable to raise their animals then cull them, it most definately requires a person who is detached from emotion, for this reason farmed rabbits are denied one of the biggest things we know our rabbits enjoy which is company and affection, the person culling cannot become emotionally involved with the animals, the really confusing thing for me is people who keep pet rabbits and meat rabbits - fathom the mindset there because I can't.

I'm the daughter of a farmer, and the reason most farmers use slaughter houses is because of the cost involved with slaughtering themselves, rules, regulation, hygene etc. Perhaps my upbringing has given me this detatchment as I have no emotion when it comes to cattle, sheep, pigs or chickens. Even my horses - are just livestock at the end of the day. I have one, who is elderly and served us well over the years, and I have emotion in him, but the others - I do not pander to them as I would my 'pets'.

I know how to kill animals, and have done so. I don't know 'how' i detatch myself. I am a very emotional person when it comes to my pets, but somewhere, deep down, I know when an animal is for meat and something blocks the feeling there. I'm not cold. I think I over compensate the other way with my pets, treating them almost like children. they even have birthday present and cards :oops: which my family thinks is hilarious. But i know this to be the case of many gamekeepers and people who work in farming. My family is passionate about animal welfare too, my father is a total sucker and complains loudly if he sees anyone mistreat an animal, even an animal on it;s way to be slaughtered. But on the flipside he has shot one of his own dogs, for it;s own welfare.

I think you either have this ability to 'switch off' or you don't.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 11:36 AM
Everything you say is VERY 'worth it' :)

Personally I think it very hypocritical to eat anything that one would not kill themself. IMO if one cant do the killing why do the eating ?

I think that's fair comment tbh however, practically speaking that is why rabbits get a bad deal, how many people who eat beef or pork can raise their own and slaughter them at home? Logistically it's impossible and even when/where possible it's highly unlikely you'd keep pets alongside your meat animals.

I'm out of this now because it is emotive for me having looked into the eyes of a californian that had a timeline for culling and looking into the eyes of a so called 'pet' a brown chocolate lop that was 'old' at 2 years of age and past her breeding her days so I know what her fate was likely to be given she was at the bottom of a stack with no hay in her own filth in the dark with a bucket of food blocking her view (which was dismal) anyway. It will haunt me for the rest of my life that it is allowed to happen - and it's all completely unnecessary, I suppose like anything when you see it rather than imagine what it's like it makes it a whole lot more sensitive.

halfpenny
19-01-2011, 11:36 AM
ETA - the reason most farmers prefer to use slaughterhouses isn't only practicality - they are unable to raise their animals then cull them, it most definately requires a person who is detached from emotion, for this reason farmed rabbits are denied one of the biggest things we know our rabbits enjoy which is company and affection, the person culling cannot become emotionally involved with the animals, the really confusing thing for me is people who keep pet rabbits and meat rabbits - fathom the mindset there because I can't.

This isn't generally true, most farmers would be able to shoot their livestock if needed, they are not allowed to. For large animals a license is need for culling and the animal has to be stunned beforehand. If there is an accident on the farm, either the slaughter man or a vet has to go out an shoot it- the owner/ worker isn't legally allowed to. This is the sad thing, small animals like rabbits and poultry are not covered by these regulations, and although training is generally advised nobody is forced to take it.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm the daughter of a farmer, and the reason most farmers use slaughter houses is because of the cost involved with slaughtering themselves, rules, regulation, hygene etc. Perhaps my upbringing has given me this detatchment as I have no emotion when it comes to cattle, sheep, pigs or chickens. Even my horses - are just livestock at the end of the day. I have one, who is elderly and served us well over the years, and I have emotion in him, but the others - I do not pander to them as I would my 'pets'.

I know how to kill animals, and have done so. I don't know 'how' i detatch myself. I am a very emotional person when it comes to my pets, but somewhere, deep down, I know when an animal is for meat and something blocks the feeling there. I'm not cold. I think I over compensate the other way with my pets, treating them almost like children. they even have birthday present and cards :oops: which my family thinks is hilarious. But i know this to be the case of many gamekeepers and people who work in farming. My family is passionate about animal welfare too, my father is a total sucker and complains loudly if he sees anyone mistreat an animal, even an animal on it;s way to be slaughtered. But on the flipside he has shot one of his own dogs, for it;s own welfare.

I think you either have this ability to 'switch off' or you don't.

It's not normal to shoot dogs - the vets PTS in a humane way, if it was humane they would shoot them aswell. They shoot large animals because the anathestic procedure isn't cost effective - money motivates shooting a dog IMO and there is not an excuse in the book to justify it, you can call a vet to the home.

Sky-O
19-01-2011, 11:40 AM
I know you didn't say that you thought it was natural but, you were implying that it's not unusual or that difficult and that people are generally 'normal' and yet able to cull animals - I think thats wrong, I don't think it's brave and anyone culling a road accident animal needs to be very careful that the animal is beyond repair before doing it, I would call out a vet or take the animal to a vet and thats not because I'm squeamish even it's because I would always wonder if I'd extinguished life unnecessarily. Any animal injured badly enough to be fatal won't last very long at all and is probably in shock or coma like state anyway so not feeling much pain even if it appears to be alive.

I completely agree with you about the rabbits deserving a good life for the 3 months prior to culling, sadly anyone raising meat rabbits aren't concerned about that aspect IMO.

No, I was not implying that at all. That was your interpretation. I was merely commenting that the two don't have to be poles apart.

lillian03
19-01-2011, 11:43 AM
It's not normal to shoot dogs - the vets PTS in a humane way, if it was humane they would shoot them aswell.

Not normal, no, but the dog concerned was fearful of the vets and very eldely and in pain. He was a gun dog, so was taken out on a game shoot where he was sent to retrieve and shot whilst he was wagging his tail. We wanted his last moments to be those of happiness father than fear.

Vets do shoot animals BTW. It's just cheaper for them to PTS. Our horses are always shot by the vet or huntsman whilst their heads are in a bucket of feed.

halfpenny
19-01-2011, 11:46 AM
Not normal, no, but the dog concerned was fearful of the vets and very eldely and in pain. He was a gun dog, so was taken out on a game shoot where he was sent to retrieve and shot whilst he was wagging his tail. We wanted his last moments to be those of happiness father than fear.

Vets do shoot animals BTW. It's just cheaper for them to PTS. Our horses are always shot by the vet or huntsman whilst their heads are in a bucket of feed.

Vats do shoot large animals, they do not shoot small animals like dogs and cats. Another option if you dog doesn't like going to the vet is to call the vet out to the house for a PTS.

Jack's-Jane
19-01-2011, 11:49 AM
This isn't generally true, most farmers would be able to shoot their livestock if needed, they are not allowed to. For large animals a license is need for culling and the animal has to be stunned beforehand. If there is an accident on the farm, either the slaughter man or a vet has to go out an shoot it- the owner/ worker isn't legally allowed to. This is the sad thing, small animals like rabbits and poultry are not covered by these regulations, and although training is generally advised nobody is forced to take it.

Well personally I would rather shoot a fatally injured animal than leave it to suffer for however long it took for a Vet or a slaughterperson to get there.

Take this scenario: Driving along and car infront hits wild Rabbit. Car does not stop. I do stop, Rabbit not dead but *obviously* fatally wounded and screaming in pain.

What is 'kinder' get on the phone to a Vet who will take at least half an hour to arrive or the RSPCA who may or may not come at all. Or take immediate action to end the Rabbit's suffering ?

I am vegetarian, I personally see no need to eat ANY animal. I dont think that meat eaters should see Rabbits as any different from a Cow or a Pig etc. Meat is meat and if the animal is to be eaten then IMO it is of most importance that their life is one within HIGH welfare standards and there death instant and fear free.

But as I say, why see it OK to eat a cow but not a Rabbit. Makes no sense to me at all.

halfpenny
19-01-2011, 11:52 AM
Well personally I would rather shoot a fatally injured animal than leave it to suffer for however long it took for a Vet or a slaughterperson to get there.

I agree, and some probably do it on the quiet, but some farmers don't even own a gun. Our neighbour hasn't got a gun and has about 30 cattle and 20 sheep.
Personally I couldn't kill an animal with my bare hands, although on occasion Mike has done it to a couple of wild rabbits- a couple with a severe case of myxi and the anther had a broken back, although as he has become older and more involved it animal rescue the less likely he is to do this- he certainly couldn't kill one of our own.

lillian03
19-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Vats do shoot large animals, they do not shoot small animals like dogs and cats. Another option if you dog doesn't like going to the vet is to call the vet out to the house for a PTS.

True, and very viable normally (we've had vet out to PTS cats and another dog), but this one hated vets after years of treatment and had to be muzzled for the vet. At the end of the day it was a decision made purely on the dog's state of mind and happiness and a decision which was not regretted for one moment. We're not talking someone who popped out with a gun and shot their pet just to save 70 quid. This was someone with 40 years shooting experience and who knew that one shot would do the job. It's not something that I would recommend ANYONE do, but rather to push across the point that detatchment is possible, if it is for the good of that animal. I think it's very easy to look at a situation from the outside and to make a snap judgement, but sometimes those who do the killing care more than they would actually let on.

VickiP
19-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Well personally I would rather shoot a fatally injured animal than leave it to suffer for however long it took for a Vet or a slaughterperson to get there.

Take this scenario: Driving along and car infront hits wild Rabbit. Car does not stop. I do stop, Rabbit not dead but *obviously* fatally wounded and screaming in pain.

What is 'kinder' get on the phone to a Vet who will take at least half an hour to arrive or the RSPCA who may or may not come at all. Or take immediate action to end the Rabbit's suffering ?

I am vegetarian, I personally see no need to eat ANY animal. I dont think that meat eaters should see Rabbits as any different from a Cow or a Pig etc. Meat is meat and if the animal is to be eaten then IMO it is of most importance that their life is one within HIGH welfare standards and there dath instant and fear free.

But as I say, why see it OK to eat a cow but not a Rabbit. Makes no sense to me at all.

Cows aren't the UK's 3rd most popular pet, one animal feeds a lot of people and they live longer than 3 months - you can't stack 50 up in a back garden and cull them yourself, there is very little waste and a lot of the animal is used in by products, how many vegetarians wear leather shoes? How many drink milk? It's just going to go on and on and on ......:lol:

On that note I'm off have a great day :wave:

Jack's-Jane
19-01-2011, 11:56 AM
I agree, and some probably do it on the quiet, but some farmers don't even own a gun. Our neighbour hasn't got a gun and has about 30 cattle and 20 sheep.

Yes, some of the Crofters in Shetland did not have a gun. They might have to wait for hours for a Vet to get to them :? :cry:

Hugo's There
19-01-2011, 12:09 PM
I dont think that meat eaters should see Rabbits as any different from a Cow or a Pig etc. Meat is meat and if the animal is to be eaten then IMO it is of most importance that their life is one within HIGH welfare standards and there death instant and fear free.

But as I say, why see it OK to eat a cow but not a Rabbit. Makes no sense to me at all.

I completely agree with this. Every life is as important as the next animals.

As others have said I would much prefer people bred their own meat if they chose to eat it rather than buy intensively farmed meat from the supermarket, especially when you consider that most of it comes from foreign countries with very few welfare standards, and even the so called freedom foods in this country leave a lot to be desired :(