I'm Confused - Urinating/Drinking a Lot?

I've posted a bit recently about Muesli who has had problems with urinating a lot and outside of the litter tray/base, and also drinking a lot. He has been treated for EC - day 28 was yesterday and we did the bleaching on days 21 and 28. He also had 3 weeks worth of Baytril.

He is still having the same problems pretty much and he is also quite thin - he was on the thin side for a harlequin when he first got the medication - at 2.57kg and now is 2.34kg. Today we have been advised by the vet to just see how things go. She doesnt think there is any more they can do for him really and think that the problems have been left by damage to his kidneys from the EC so it may never get any better.

On the other hand, we also have Kenco, who has very similar problems - we knew when we adopted him that he was very hit and miss with his litter tray, and he was weeing everywhere and anywhere when he came here unfortunately, as well as drinking an awful lot. He hasnt had any problems with his weight. Kenco has not had any treatment for EC, he has had some bloods which came back with raised calcium levels and a few other things (cant remember now) and the vet wants to do an x-ray and take more bloods.

The problem is I am struggling to understand why they have gone down one route with Muesli and now not offering any alternative treatment, but yet another route with Kenco, despite them having very similar symptoms? :?

The only thing that is different between them is that Muesli's came on all of a sudden, whereas Kenco was having problems with urinating before he came here.

I dont know what to think and as Muesli is a housebunny and bonded with Starbuck, and we have no more room in our garden to move them outdoors....I dont know how we can strike a balance between giving them lots of space to play in and keeping our house clean - they are in a carpeted room and we dont have a room that is non-carpeted that is suitable for them to live in.

Should I be asking the vet for any further treatment or investigations for Muesli? I did ask why the difference but wasnt really told a definitive answer so I am confused and I dont understand why they are doing more for Kenco than Muesli.

when bisc had those symptoms he had blood tests, urine samples and xrays. i would ask for more to be done. bisc also lost alot of weight in that time - 2.3kg down to 1.8kg he was weeing everywhere, not using his tray.

he was also on antibiotics for a UTI but that did nothing. he had blood tests and xrays showed nothing either. one part of the urine sample was high, i can't remember which now.

ec was ruled out from some tests aswell.

he kept losing weight and we didn't know why. we think now it was a combination of his respiratory problems causing stress, and also he had spurs aswell which we didn't know because they were out of sight, kind of tucked behind the lower teeth near the gums i think.

happy to say he gradually got better but it took him over a year to get his weight back up to his original. but slowly he managed it and recovered fine. there never was anything showing up on any tests really. :?

i would definitely ask for more tests. x

Hi Helen,

I tried to post earlier but my battery died and then the forum appeared to go down for a while.

I too think you need to ask for more investigations for Muesli. Has he had his urine tested for blood and cultured for bacteria? I think an EC blood test would be helpful for both, even if just to show exposure has occured. Whilst Muesli was having the 28 days panacur was he also having anti-inflammatories daily? Or are they too concerned about his kidney function?
Perhaps as his weight loss is still continuing then bloods and an Xray are important - to look for a mass potentially/rule it out? and it might show whether or not he has damaged kidneys from the EC. I know that Nino's Xrays showed up microabcesses on the kidneys from EC infection in the past. Maybe an ultrasound would give better picture of soft tissue than Xray?

I think you need to ask again and keep asking until you get an explanation you are happy with. If they are just not sure then I would request a referral or that they make a correspondence referral of their own. A 2nd opinion for Muesli may be needed if he just isn't responding to treatments tried. :wave:

I dont know what to think and as Muesli is a housebunny and bonded with Starbuck, and we have no more room in our garden to move them outdoors....I dont know how we can strike a balance between giving them lots of space to play in and keeping our house clean - they are in a carpeted room and we dont have a room that is non-carpeted that is suitable for them to live in.

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Buy a piece of vinyl that you can cut to fit the room. It needs to be a textured vinyl as they wont like anything slippery underfoot, it's ice skating to them

I also use puppy training pads - you could make a 'carpet' of those? My two have always slept on vet bed on the floor: when one of them has weeing problems, I put a puppy training pad underneath so not only is the liquid wicked away by the vet bed but it's then absorbed by the pad. I hope this keeps the top layer of the vet bed dry (it seems to).

Muppet2 said:

Buy a piece of vinyl that you can cut to fit the room. It needs to be a textured vinyl as they wont like anything slippery underfoot, it's ice skating to them

I also use puppy training pads - you could make a 'carpet' of those? My two have always slept on vet bed on the floor: when one of them has weeing problems, I put a puppy training pad underneath so not only is the liquid wicked away by the vet bed but it's then absorbed by the pad. I hope this keeps the top layer of the vet bed dry (it seems to).

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I was going to suggest a piece of lino too. You can use masking tape or gaffer tape to stick it to the edges of the room and both tapes are pretty water tight for small accidents. We use a roll of lino on holiday on top of carpet and masking tape it down!

I agree re. puppy training pads - we actually use childrens bed time bed wetting sheet pads (you can get them in Sainsbury's) under the edges of the foam mats in the sitting room just incase of accidents.

Hi everyone, thank you for all the replies, sorry it has taken me so long to reply, I have been utterly exhausted this weekend, dont know why.

It has been on my mind a lot about Muesli, I still cant understand why she is going down one route with Kenco and another with Muesli. :? When I asked her all she would say was that it probably wont get any better and thats that. The problem is I really trust my vet and she is bunny-savvy...so it feels a little awkward to press for more to be done for Muesli but I look at him and think well why is she not doing more for him?!!

Maybe it is something that will settle down over time, I dont know.

Muesli is going back to the vets in two weeks for his VHD vaccination so I will ask for more investigations then. Thanks for letting me know that you feel this is the right thing to do as well, and that there isnt some obvious reason why he is just being left. :?

Muesli didnt have anti-inflammatories while he was on Lapizole, Vicky, he had some Loxicam (?) for his foot when he hurt that, but that has got better now and he stopped having that last week or so. I assume thats just a painkiller and not an anti-inflammatory as well?

We've decided to give them the whole room today - they are really loving it I cant bear the thought of them being in that puppy pen any longer, and he's had so many accidents before now that a few more wont make much difference. We will have to shampoo the carpet again and then we will get some lino and put some of those puppy/children's wetting sheets down as well.

Will update in a couple of weeks when he has been back to the vet, hope its positive news that something will be done.

Be brave Helen and ask her again if she would kindly explain to you 'why' she has chosen this particular course of action with Muesli. You have every right to ask until you are satisfied with the answer. You can do it politely, just say you are anxious about him still and wondering if she could explain again 'why' she feels no further investigations are necessary for him?

Loxicom is a NSAID so it seems she prescribed the right thing alongside the Lapizole, just personal choice I suppose.

Good luck and let us know how you get on at the vets x

Thank you, thats very good advice and I will put it just like that. Kenco is going in for his GA next Tues, will take Muesli in a week after that. Should Fay go in to the vets with Kenco, to keep him company when he is coming round, and prevent any anxiety in her and him? Or will he need to be left in peace to sleep without her?

Thank you, will update when I have any updates. x

I always like to keep bonded Buns together when one of them is admitted to the Vets

helgalush said:

Thank you, thats very good advice and I will put it just like that. Kenco is going in for his GA next Tues, will take Muesli in a week after that. Should Fay go in to the vets with Kenco, to keep him company when he is coming round, and prevent any anxiety in her and him? Or will he need to be left in peace to sleep without her?

Thank you, will update when I have any updates. x

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Yes Fay should go with Kenco for his GA definitely :wave:

Thank you I may well be asking for some vibes come next week I hope Fay will help keep Kenco calm - we will have to tell her what to do before they go! :lol:

We have been reading and thinking more about Muesli's urinating and drinking. Time is getting tight for us as my OH is going in to hospital at the end of the month, and I also want things to be looked in to asap for poor Muesli's sake.

So, we are taking Kenco in for his GA/sedation on Tuesday morning - Kenco has very similar symptoms though different onset. We have just rung the vets and asked if we can bring Muesli on Tuesday too, to see the vet and then possibly also to have GA and investigations done.

So potentially on Tuesday, we could have two buns with GA/sedation, and 4 bunnies at the vets But I think it needs to be done.

Sending vibes that Tuesday will point the way to a solution for you all. xx

susie bun said:

Sending vibes that Tuesday will point the way to a solution for you all. xx

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Thank you Susie Bun, I hope so too. x