Barney is home and doing well U/D 26th May

Hi. I really need some advice as to how to help my darling bunny Barney who is very poorly. Here's the story...
I bought him along with his friend Flopsy from PAH last August. All was fine at first, but by the time I took them for the second jab Barney's breathing was noticeably noisy (the first problem). The vet prescribed Baytril to go in their water (week course) and they had a second course after a short break as there was no improvement, but didn’t seem to be getting any worse or affecting him at all. In mid November, I noticed that his left eye was protruding slightly so took him to the vet (it got worse in the few days in between). He had an ultrasound and an antibiotic injection. The vet identified a definite mass behind his eye (abscess or tumour) with a fluid centre. We took him back after a few days for another injection and then he was on Baytril twice a day for several weeks.
Until a few days before Christmas this seemed to be working and the swelling seemed to be going down. Then, despite the Baytril the eye began to swell again and got rapidly worse over the next few days. I took him back to the vets on 29th Dec and he was then kept in until the 4th Jan for a course of injections (oxytetracycline). The vet has said that as there was no improvement over this time then the lump is more likely to be tumour and there is nothing more he can do. He has said that he could operate if we like but he doesn't think it will be very successful and thinks it will be better for Barney to leave him be and give him a good quality of life for however long he has left. He said that as he is still eating soft foods (definitely yesterday, not too sure today but hasn't been eating his soft stools) he isn't in too much pain.
I am also worried that the reoccurrence of the swelling might be due to stress. Barney was living with my other Buck Flopsy until Christmas day. I was putting of neutering them as they were getting on relatively ok and Barney was poorly and underweight but as we were going to my Mum's for a few days I was going to take Barney along because he needed daily Baytril and leave Flopsy for my neighbour to feed. But.. when I went to get Barney for the trip they had had a fight and his ear had been bitten (fairly small wound but lots of blood). He then had to endure a 4 hour car journey (mostly on my lap) 4 days in an indoor hutch at my Mum's then the journey back, followed by 6 days at the vets, all without his best friend Flopsy.
Barney has noticeably lost weight during his stay at the vets and now weighs 1.3kg (was up to 1.6 before I noticed that eye problem) and vet said that being under anaesthetic at under 2kg is too risky (this was said regarding castration originally - has anyone else been told this?).
He is now mostly sitting still with his head tilting and his nose sounds like it is runny. He has also been drooling a lot since Christmas and the eye is weeping.
I do not want Barney to suffer, but I do not want to give up on him. He is only 6 months old and everyone has said what a sweet natured loving bunny he is and I just cannot bear to loose him. I have been researching a lot of retrobulbar abscesses and all the info seems to be on much older bunnies.
I am intending to call the vet tomorrow to discuss the possibility of using other antibiotics and it seems to be widely accepted that Baytril is not much good for this problem so perhaps my vet isnt as rabbit savvy as I thought.. although he is very kind and I do believe he wants to do the best for Barney.
Any advice from anyone who has had a bunny with a similar problem would be much appreciated (asap please before its too late).

How Rabbit Savvy is your Vet ? Some of the things you mention make me think that he/she might not be........... :?

Is Barney receiving regular pain relief?

Could you request a referral to a Specialist ?

Hi

It sounds like you are trying really hard for Barney and would perhaps be prepared to try and take him to a vet who has more experience with 'exotics' (which includes rabbits) and perhaps eventually a referral specialist rabbit vet? (which would need to be after a request by you for referral from your own vet). there are several of these around the country - I think the nearest to you must be Frances Harcourt Brown (someone will come along soon with a contact detail for her).

Someone like this will know the best way to acgieve a clear prognosis and also the strength and type of most successful medicines (which change regularly as there is quite a lot of 'research' on buns and infections of this type as head and ear abscess and infections are relatively common).

It sounds like he would benefit from pain killer and anti inflammatory (metacam) as well as a scan to establish exactly what is happening - and a culture. Having said all that retro-orbital problems are very hard to deal with -

I am beginning to ramble and so hope that some of the very medical people on the forum will be along soon

EDIT: Jacks jane got there as I was typing - !! I would always pay a LOT of attention to any advice she gives -

PS Try posting a new thread with a request for 'recommend a very good rabbit vet in/near York' as a first move -

Poor bun-bun

This link shows details of the surgical treatment so there are some graphic pictures

http://www.ivis.org/journals/exoticdvm/10-1/visigalli.pdf


I have had numerous Rabbits who weigh well under 2kg but cope fine under GA.

It would be great if you could get Barney seen by FHB

http://www.any-uk-vet.co.uk/harcourt-brown/index.htm

Sorry i cant be of any help just wanted to say hope Barney gets better soon x

Roseberry said:

Hi. I really need some advice as to how to help my darling bunny Barney who is very poorly. Here's the story...
I bought him along with his friend Flopsy from PAH last August. All was fine at first, but by the time I took them for the second jab Barney's breathing was noticeably noisy (the first problem). The vet prescribed Baytril to go in their water (week course) and they had a second course after a short break as there was no improvement, but didn’t seem to be getting any worse or affecting him at all. In mid November, I noticed that his left eye was protruding slightly so took him to the vet (it got worse in the few days in between). He had an ultrasound and an antibiotic injection. The vet identified a definite mass behind his eye (abscess or tumour) with a fluid centre. We took him back after a few days for another injection and then he was on Baytril twice a day for several weeks.
Until a few days before Christmas this seemed to be working and the swelling seemed to be going down. Then, despite the Baytril the eye began to swell again and got rapidly worse over the next few days. I took him back to the vets on 29th Dec and he was then kept in until the 4th Jan for a course of injections (oxytetracycline). The vet has said that as there was no improvement over this time then the lump is more likely to be tumour and there is nothing more he can do. He has said that he could operate if we like but he doesn't think it will be very successful and thinks it will be better for Barney to leave him be and give him a good quality of life for however long he has left. He said that as he is still eating soft foods (definitely yesterday, not too sure today but hasn't been eating his soft stools) he isn't in too much pain.
I am also worried that the reoccurrence of the swelling might be due to stress. Barney was living with my other Buck Flopsy until Christmas day. I was putting of neutering them as they were getting on relatively ok and Barney was poorly and underweight but as we were going to my Mum's for a few days I was going to take Barney along because he needed daily Baytril and leave Flopsy for my neighbour to feed. But.. when I went to get Barney for the trip they had had a fight and his ear had been bitten (fairly small wound but lots of blood). He then had to endure a 4 hour car journey (mostly on my lap) 4 days in an indoor hutch at my Mum's then the journey back, followed by 6 days at the vets, all without his best friend Flopsy.
Barney has noticeably lost weight during his stay at the vets and now weighs 1.3kg (was up to 1.6 before I noticed that eye problem) and vet said that being under anaesthetic at under 2kg is too risky (this was said regarding castration originally - has anyone else been told this?).
He is now mostly sitting still with his head tilting and his nose sounds like it is runny. He has also been drooling a lot since Christmas and the eye is weeping.
I do not want Barney to suffer, but I do not want to give up on him. He is only 6 months old and everyone has said what a sweet natured loving bunny he is and I just cannot bear to loose him. I have been researching a lot of retrobulbar abscesses and all the info seems to be on much older bunnies.
I am intending to call the vet tomorrow to discuss the possibility of using other antibiotics and it seems to be widely accepted that Baytril is not much good for this problem so perhaps my vet isnt as rabbit savvy as I thought.. although he is very kind and I do believe he wants to do the best for Barney.
Any advice from anyone who has had a bunny with a similar problem would be much appreciated (asap please before its too late).

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Hi I can't really add any advice medically in addition to the advice to get a second opinion, it does seem a shame that he could lose his life rather than say his eye?? It could be a benign tumour behind the eye and surely losing his eye is preferable to losing his life? You can feed high calorie food to try to increase his body weight for the op perhaps ...sorry not much help but, whilst I'm not trying to add to your guilt I think it's a lesson learned with regards his little mate, I wouldn't separate them again, I would have taken the two of them I think. It sounds like you really want to save him and maybe with pain relief to enable him to feel well enough to eat and gain weight there might be a solution, I'd go for a second opinion definately, very best of luck to you it's incredibly sad, you could also try getting Pets at Home to foot the bill for his treatment - the more cases like this they see, they more they might realise the need to use 'decent' (if they exist) breeders to supply their massive chain of stores.

Jack's-Jane said:

This link shows details of the surgical treatment so there are some graphic pictures

http://www.ivis.org/journals/exoticdvm/10-1/visigalli.pdf


I have had numerous Rabbits who weigh well under 2kg but cope fine under GA.

It would be great if you could get Barney seen by FHB

http://www.any-uk-vet.co.uk/harcourt-brown/index.htm

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Thanks Jane - that was the contact details I thought someone might come up with!!! I am sure she could really help Barney. Just to add that this is something that really needs action ASAP - so perhaps phone direct to Frances harcourt Brown rather than waiting for your vet to try anything else first!

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Barney has had 4 'metacam pain relief' injections during his stay at the vets and he one previously when he stayed over for the first scan but nothing regular. Can I give him anything at home?
He had an ultrasound the first time he was seen for the problem (is this as good as an xray?) and vet had said he would do another last week but we dont seem to have been charged for it so I dont know, and havent seen the scans either.
I dont know how much my vet really knows about rabbits, he was recommended to me for being a really nice kind vet (agreed) and the costs are very reasonable but beyond that I dont know. Thanks for the tip about Frances Harcourt-Brown - just had a look, they are in Harrogate which I could get to. Maybe I could ask my vet to seek advice from them? Or maybe I could contact them directly..
Dont worry about rambling (you arent), any help is much appreciated!

Roseberry said:

Barney has had 4 'metacam pain relief' injections during his stay at the vets and he one previously when he stayed over for the first scan but nothing regular. Can I give him anything at home?
He had an ultrasound the first time he was seen for the problem (is this as good as an xray?) and vet had said he would do another last week but we dont seem to have been charged for it so I dont know, and havent seen the scans either.
I dont know how much my vet really knows about rabbits, he was recommended to me for being a really nice kind vet (agreed) and the costs are very reasonable but beyond that I dont know. Thanks for the tip about Frances Harcourt-Brown - just had a look, they are in Harrogate which I could get to. Maybe I could ask my vet to seek advice from them? Or maybe I could contact them directly..
Dont worry about rambling (you arent), any help is much appreciated!

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Its a really difficult call with how you approach this - any good vet will welcome the chance to send an animal to an acknowledged specialist and thus asking your own vet t refer to Frances Harcounrt Brown SHOULD be met with enthusiasm - however it may not . . . In addition - it will probably cause delay whereas approaching direct wil be quick.

I have never been to FHB (have a very very good vet here and am nearer to the West Country specialists) and so do not know whether she will take a bun direct or whether she needs a referral from another vet. I have a feeling that she will take from direct owner contact - though obviously will need to then get the previous clinical history notes from your own vet.

parsnipbun said:

Its a really difficult call with how you approach this - any good vet will welcome the chance to send an animal to an acknowledged specialist and thus asking your own vet t refer to Frances Harcounrt Brown SHOULD be met with enthusiasm - however it may not . . . In addition - it will probably cause delay whereas approaching direct wil be quick.

I have never been to FHB (have a very very good vet here and am nearer to the West Country specialists) and so do not know whether she will take a bun direct or whether she needs a referral from another vet. I have a feeling that she will take from direct owner contact - though obviously will need to then get the previous clinical history notes from your own vet.

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PS metacam can (and in this instance probably should) be given at home - as can a wide range of other medicines. I am also concerned he lost weight at vets - they should have monitered this and supplementary fed.

We had a rabbit called Danny and the globe of his left eye was bulbous and he had swelling around the eye and the vet did an ultra sound which showed he had something behind the eye which was putting pressure on the eye globe and pushing it forward. At that stage they didn't know what it was that was causing the pressure and he was on eye ointment and baytril. Danny himself didn't seem to be in any discomfort with the eye. This was on December 3oth 2005.
January 4th 2006 he was back at the vet's for a check up as his eye was very blood shot and dropped him off early in the morning of the following day as they were going to x-ray the eye. They found he had an abscess behind his left eye and they drained the fluid off, and he was on a course of penicillin injections, by the 7th January his eye looked much better. On the 9th January he was back for another check up and our vet at the time Sue was pleased at how the eye was and she sent his x-rays off to Francis Harcourt Brown in Harrogate for assessment.
Danny was back at the vets on the 18th January for another check up on his eye and Sue was very pleased with him and he was took off the penicilin injections.
On the 20th January we dropped Danny off at the vets for another ultra sound on his eye but Sue couldn't find anything at all, in fact they did two ultra sounds as she thought she might have missed something the first time and to be sure. Sue said the abscess had gone and he was clear and he had to go back in a month. The abscess never returned.

I can only echo what others have said, good luck and hope Frances Harcourt Brown can help you, I have heard nothing but amazing things about her :wave:

Thank you so much for all the good vibes for Barney (he needs them).
I noticed the change in weight straight away as I have always handled him a lot and was monitoring his weight as was trying to increase it.
What foods are high calorie? He normally has Excel pellets (mashed up at the mo) and had some dark salad leaves yesterday and a bit of brocolli. He normally loves banana (need to buy more) and have been giving him apple juice with syringe in addition to water bottle. Was going to try some mashed apple too...?

I intend to give FHB a call first thing tomorrow. I could not bear to give up on Barney, my worry is that he has had so much wrong with him at such a young age, if he fully recovers from this is he likely to be plagued with illness his whole life

Sorry about the oversized pic btw, tried to fix this ..hope this isnt making forum go mad.. will try to remove it.

Re separating the bucks, I was going to take them both but couldn't risk it after the fight, was surprised they lasted that long together actually, especially as Barney is poorly and Flopsy is now much bigger (2.5 kg over 1kg more than Barney!) and has decided he now wants to be dominant. Tried putting them near each other when we got back but its over - fought straight away

Will try to go back to PAH, a friend has since told me I shouldnt have bought from there... fell in love with the bunnies though when we saw them and have been hooked ever since. I have been looking on these forums since I got them but have only needed to post today.