Respitory Bun - Trying Septrin

Bluebell is suffering yet again. Previously he's only ever had flare ups in the summer (Sneezing, clear discharge) which was put down to allergies and has previously been helped via enchinea.

This year the pollen count was very high and his breathing was laboured so we trialled piriton which really helped.
We weaned him off it when it got colder as vet was worried he'd build up a resistance.

Last few months his sneezing has increased ten fold. Fits are very aggressive and last several mins at a time. He never does this at the vets so they don't see what I see. Baytril seems to stop the sneezing for a few weeks but once off it as soon as we get a weather change he starts again.

Discharge is always clear and watery, not mucusy so I'm not sure if there would be any hope for a C&S test?

Should I insist on Skull X-rays? Would tooth roots be an on and off prob like this?

I am thinking of enquiring about using an anti-inflamatory aswell as antibiotics to reduce swelling. Or maybe TIACIL as I've seen Jacks Jane has had sucess applying this directly to the nasal.

Vet always listens to the chest which is always clear. He did go through a phase of a rasping sound which vet thought may be laryngeal related.

Any advice would be really helpful. I trust my vets and I know respitory buns are hard to treat but every time I see him have a sneezing fit I wonder if its really fair on him, his quality of life must be awful. I feel I'm failing him.

Ginger's sneezing has become progressively worse again also Amy.

Yesterday we had a full C&S swab also and shes going onto depocillin precautinary until the swab comes back as it can't do any harm to treat with that, rather than Baytril, which didn't even scratch it.

Her discharge is mainly clear, but has been white/yellow a couple of times now.

She sneezes also for a good 3 minutes or so, solid and gets so distressed she has to lay down for 30-40 minutes after a 'bout'.

Vet is considering all sorts at the moment, possible low white blood count (we are having a blood test done after the C&S if it doesn't show anything) URTI and pasteurella was discussed also.

Again, Ginger's chest also sounds clear according to the vet.

Sounds as if we may have two very similar buns Amy.

Thing is, 95% of the time she's absolutely fine, binkying around, nomming, pooping like a trooper, but the 5% is horrific, we just have to focus on the good.

How is Bluebell when he's not sneezing? Is it possible he just has a really sensitive nose?

I know im not much help but didnt want to read and run.

Lots of vibes for Bluebell.

My vet would switch antibiotics if it showed resistance to baytril...which one I'm not entirely sure.

Anti-inflammatory is a really good idea, and what about using bisolvin too?

Good days, He's a happy bun but the sneezing really takes it out of him. Bad days he mopes and does this weird rocking motion.

He had been losing weight but his wife bun had been getting fat so we tried seperating at feeding time and it seems the sneezing made him eat slower so he wasn't getting his full share. Since seperating he's put it back on and she's losing it so we are certain that was the prob there.

The baytril does make a huge improvement, after just a couple of days on it he appears to eat much quicker and is more interested in his surrounding.

There is so little discharge and what there is, is clear. His nasal tract is starting to look inflammed so I really am wondering if it is just allergies after all but I don't know what to do about it. I think my vet thinks I'm overeacting as when we are there, there really is nothing to see, he appears like any normal healthy bun.

Anti-inflammatory is a really good idea, and what about using bisolvin too?

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We have used bisolvin as well but I don't know if it actually did anything as to all intents and purposes there doesn't seem to be any mucus to thin. What little discharge there is, is already very watery.

Has he had any diagnostics ?

To me it sounds like he *might* have asthma, the 'rocking' you mention making me think this. Should this be the case then medication administered via a nebuliser could be helpful. Something like Beclomethasone. Obviously I cant say for certain, but what you describe does not sound like active infection to me so I'd be reluctant to just try different antibiotics :?

Following on from Jane, Badger does a lot of rocking and steroids helped that a lot, as did the air in the room he is in at the time. not sure if that's of any use or not?

Thank you so much Jane. Asthma isn't something I'd thought of before and it would be interesting to put this to the vet.

What sort of diagnostics would a vet do for this? I am really happy with my current vet, I've changed so many times and he's certainly the best I've ever had in this area, but as I said he doesn't see any of the things I see and hasn't really suggested anything other than antibiotics. He thinks a chest xray would be unneccessary as it always sounds clear.

The weird rocking is really what gets me and to be honest upsets me a lot. He just looks so sad and even his wifebun who he dotes on doesn't get much out of him when he's like that.

Hi Amy, I really think you need to video Bluebell having one of his attacks and take it in to show the vet. It might really help them to see what you are describing as clinical presentation and observing his posture and behaviour from the vets point of view will help them with a diagnosis.

Can you get him referred to Bristol Rabbit Clinic for a 2nd opinion also? I know your vets are very good but with an exotics centre on your doorstep I think i'd be too tempted not to go.
I hope he feels better soon x

Can you get him referred to Bristol Rabbit Clinic for a 2nd opinion also? I know your vets are very good but with an exotics centre on your doorstep I think i'd be too tempted not to go.

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Hubby suggested this also. He witnessed an attack for the first time and it upset him too. I'm certainly considering it.

Video is an excellent idea. Thanks.

Amy104 said:

Thank you so much Jane. Asthma isn't something I'd thought of before and it would be interesting to put this to the vet.

What sort of diagnostics would a vet do for this? I am really happy with my current vet, I've changed so many times and he's certainly the best I've ever had in this area, but as I said he doesn't see any of the things I see and hasn't really suggested anything other than antibiotics. He thinks a chest xray would be unneccessary as it always sounds clear.

The weird rocking is really what gets me and to be honest upsets me a lot. He just looks so sad and even his wifebun who he dotes on doesn't get much out of him when he's like that.

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Sometimes it is not possible to detect lung issues just by listening with a stethescope. *If* it were to be asthma (an allergic asthma maybe) then giving an inhaler via a nebuliser would mean that the medication goes directly to the source of inflammation. Many asthma treatments contain a corticosteroid. Whilst these need to be used with extreme caution in Rabbits, the risks are less if given directly to the source of the problem rather than systemically via the bloodstream.

I see you are in Bristol. Have you thought about asking your Vet to either refer you to the Bristol Rabbit Clinic or for your Vet to contact them for telephone advice?

http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/rabbit_team.htm

That's really interesting, i wasn't aware bunnys could get Asthma :shock:

I hope Bristol Rabbit Hosp can help Amy if you contact them :wave:

Will keep an eye here, as similar issue and i'll update if theres anything i think may help but PL & Jane are here with their brilliant knowledge :wave:

as did the air in the room he is in at the time. not sure if that's of any use or not?

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Thanks Sky. What sort of 'air' seemed best if that makes sense. Bluebell is an outdoor bun and I've considered bring him inside but his wife bun would hate it and I'd never seperate them so I feel caught between a rock and a hard place.

We did move the hutches inside our unused garage as it helped stabilise the temperature at night particularly when we had all that snow.

Amy104 said:

Thanks Sky. What sort of 'air' seemed best if that makes sense. Bluebell is an outdoor bun and I've considered bring him inside but his wife bun would hate it and I'd never seperate them so I feel caught between a rock and a hard place.

We did move the hutches inside our unused garage as it helped stabilise the temperature at night particularly when we had all that snow.

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He seems best with cool, fresh moving air, but not air from outside and not stuffy and not warm, all of those bring on a crisis. I now have to sleep with my door open, which I hate, because otherwise he goes into crisis overnight because my room gets too stuffy. I call it a crisis although maybe I should call it an attack and having seen what Jane has said, makes me wonder about Badger. The steroids he has are a small dose given orally. Nebulising was not something that helped too much, although we didn'ty try nebulsiing steroids.

Thank you. I feel a bit more positive as at least I have things to ask the vet about and will make a video. He's the first bunny I got when I moved in with my Hubby so is very special to me.

Asthma as a primary condition is rare in rabbits, i'm not sure why, but just because it is rare doesn't mean there aren't buns that have it.

Getting the air right I think is very difficult. Cold air constricts the blood vessels thereby reducing inflammation - but as soon as you come into a warm room it will flare it up. Humidity is great for upper respiratory infections but NOT for asthma so much. Any allergens will cause flare up. Generally speaking, as uncomfortable as it will be, warmth is better than cold, but not hot and stuffy (humid) as SkyO says. It's tricky getting the balance right, I would go with keeping things constant temperature wise and a fairly dry atmosphere.
Topical and inhaled corticosteroids carry less side-effect risks than oral/systemic (in humans) but of course rabbits are more sensitive to steroid use overall than us. For badly asthmatic humans, a course of oral steroids can do wonders to settle the inflammation - it is an inflammatory response not an exudatory one, BUT of course, inflammation means more mucous production - which of course can harbour bacteria better and make the person more prone to infection, I should think the same applies to bunnies.
Long term inflammatory processes lead to mucosal and epithelial tissue thickening and cilial flattening/atrophy which only exacerbates the disease and makes it chronic. I really do think with his strange set of symptoms that an exotics referral would be a good idea. Good luck Amy and Bluebell x

prettylupin said:

Asthma as a primary condition is rare in rabbits, i'm not sure why, but just because it is rare doesn't mean there aren't buns that have it.

Getting the air right I think is very difficult. Cold air constricts the blood vessels thereby reducing inflammation - but as soon as you come into a warm room it will flare it up. Humidity is great for upper respiratory infections but NOT for asthma so much. Any allergens will cause flare up. Generally speaking, as uncomfortable as it will be, warmth is better than cold, but not hot and stuffy (humid) as SkyO says. It's tricky getting the balance right, I would go with keeping things constant temperature wise and a fairly dry atmosphere.
Topical and inhaled corticosteroids carry less side-effect risks than oral/systemic (in humans) but of course rabbits are more sensitive to steroid use overall than us. For badly asthmatic humans, a course of oral steroids can do wonders to settle the inflammation - it is an inflammatory response not an exudatory one, BUT of course, inflammation means more mucous production - which of course can harbour bacteria better and make the person more prone to infection, I should think the same applies to bunnies.
Long term inflammatory processes lead to mucosal and epithelial tissue thickening and cilial flattening/atrophy which only exacerbates the disease and makes it chronic. I really do think with his strange set of symptoms that an exotics referral would be a good idea. Good luck Amy and Bluebell x

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I actually wonder if it is not as rare as might have been assumed. More that accurate diagnosis is rare

Jack's-Jane said:

I actually wonder if it is not as rare as might have been assumed. More that accurate diagnosis is rare

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Indeed you could be right. I can't see how one species has so many sufferers and another not. :? But then I guess you don't see asthmatic cats and dogs much either? :? I'm glad i'm not a vet! :lol:

I've got to buns which have or had respiratory problems. Merlin touchwood is pretty clear now but his treatment was dipocillin and metacam. Baytril didn't really have any effect on him.

Frankie however had nasal swabs and chest xrays as his was a lower respiratory problem to establish exactly which antibotics to use. He is on dipocillin and septrin when he has flare ups.

I would ask for nasal swabs to try to establish which antibotics are best.

would you expect to see sneezing with asthma then? I don't know many asthmatic people or animals, so don't really know too much about the sypmtoms