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Antibiotics - U/D Another question
- Thread starter Snowy
- Start date
hurricanhoney
Wise Old Thumper
Merlin had dipocilin and metacam if I remember rightly. I also used a humidifier when he was ill. Frankie also has dipocilin and septrin but he doesn't have snot just an upper respiratory infection.
abbymarysmokey
Wise Old Thumper
I've never had a very snotty bunny, but I've had good results treating respiratory infections with Tribrissen (similar to Septrin AFAIK), Ronaxan and Zithromax (not together obviously)
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
What abx work best will vary in each case really as it will depend on the specific bacteria involved. I have found that using a nebuliser makes a tremendous difference. Abx can be administered via the nebuliser aswell as systemically. Thinning out the mucus is beneficial too, so a mucolytic such as Bisolvon is helpful.
The abx my Vet has prescribed are Baytril, Septrin, Depocillin.
The abx my Vet has prescribed are Baytril, Septrin, Depocillin.
Santa
Wise Old Thumper
I've found engemycin LA/terramycin LA worked very well as it's broad spectrum and 1 injection every 3 days so it doesn't involve a lot of stress for the rabbit. It's my vet's first choice for many bunny things. Metronidazole also worked very well for Santa, her URI was tooth root related so probably lots of anaerobes deep inside. I have never found septrin to work well but others have done - I'm sure I've read in either FHB or Saunders book that septrin is inactivated by pus so it might not be the best choice if there's a lot of pus. Combinations have also been used with success - notably penicillin and metronidazole (which also makes the penicillin safer as met. kills clostridium in the gut) or metronidazole and baytril. As Jane says, it really depends on what bacteria is in there.
I also agree that nebulising, bisolvon and metacam to reduce inflammation in the airways are all very helpful alongside the antibiotics.
Having spent years of trial and error with Santa I would advise trying to get a deep nasal swab or if that's not possible, getting a tear duct flush done with the exudate sent for C&S, because it's the only real way of knowing what you're dealing with and what it's sensitive to. Once you start on abx it starts affecting the balance of what's there so it's much harder to get a good sample later on.
I also agree that nebulising, bisolvon and metacam to reduce inflammation in the airways are all very helpful alongside the antibiotics.
Having spent years of trial and error with Santa I would advise trying to get a deep nasal swab or if that's not possible, getting a tear duct flush done with the exudate sent for C&S, because it's the only real way of knowing what you're dealing with and what it's sensitive to. Once you start on abx it starts affecting the balance of what's there so it's much harder to get a good sample later on.
purplebumble
Warren Veteran
berties nasal swabs almost a year ago found it was responsive to baytril and because he tolerated it quite well we carried on with that.
but berties obly ever had a few white snot incidents. hes snuffly and damp aorund the nostrils but not snotty..at the moment anyway.
he had an abscess on his chin a few years back,...but luckily it wasnt attached to bone..just within the skin layers...it got squeezed out and cleaned out then atnbx for about twoi or three weeks. i never rest easy cos i know it can go to lungs etc...but all the time hes still able to sniff you out eating a crafty bit of fruit or biscuit or chocolate....i will remain calm.
has a swab and culture been done yet?
thats the only way i knew what one worked on him...but it wasnt the only one it was reactive to..just had the best result.
hope it gets sorted:wave:
but berties obly ever had a few white snot incidents. hes snuffly and damp aorund the nostrils but not snotty..at the moment anyway.
he had an abscess on his chin a few years back,...but luckily it wasnt attached to bone..just within the skin layers...it got squeezed out and cleaned out then atnbx for about twoi or three weeks. i never rest easy cos i know it can go to lungs etc...but all the time hes still able to sniff you out eating a crafty bit of fruit or biscuit or chocolate....i will remain calm.
has a swab and culture been done yet?
thats the only way i knew what one worked on him...but it wasnt the only one it was reactive to..just had the best result.
hope it gets sorted:wave:
depocillin injection
and keep the rabbit away from any others pastrella is a killer and can spread like wildfire
Snowy
Wise Old Thumper
depocillin injection
and keep the rabbit away from any others pastrella is a killer and can spread like wildfire
That's a myth, pasturella does not spread like wildfire at all and it is not a killer, I have bunnies here with pasturella and they are bnded to bunnies without pasturella and they haven't got it and I have bunnies that have lived here for quite a few years with pasturella and they are still very much alive
VikkiVet
Mama Doe
Agree with above. If you can get a swab/flush and culture and sensitivity then you can narrow down the options.
I was taught septrin is inactivated by pus, so are one of the others, but i forget which grrr! baytril and ronaxan are good as first line, and technically you have to start with baytril as part of the prescribing cascade, but I wouldnt do more than a fortnight without improvement.
Whatever abx you use, nebulising definately helps - they tend to sneeze more in the few hours after as the mucus is broken down and flows more easily to their nose and mouth, so they may also swallow a lot - but the sneezing then diminishes over the following days. I didn't go in for any special equipment, just half an hour every 3 days in a steamed up bathroom (with toys and treats
) plus some bisolvon by mouth. Kylo wasn't very pus-filled (nearly wrote puss-y
) but sneezed very violently and regularly. He had 6 weeks of engemycin 2x week (as santa suggested) plus once weekly Pen & strep all subQ injections. He's been completely clear of all signs since august despite 'moving house' 3 times, having a day of stasis, being bitten by Indi and visiting the vet twice.Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Usually once a day
Snowy
Wise Old Thumper
Usually once a day
That's what I have always done, but I just wondered if it would be better to do it half the dose twice a day?, think I might ask Paula in the morning
your wrong on that sorry thats why when one of my rabbits got it i was told by the vet to isolate him and keep him well away from the others because of this reason alone
here are some sites that basically tells you what i have said it can spread and it can kill your rabbit just in case you dont believe me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurella
i quote
multocida is also known cause of morbidity and mortality in rabbits, and the predominant syndrome is upper respiratory disease. P. multocida can be endemic among rabbit colonies and is often transmitted through nasal secretions. P. multocida can survive several days in water or moist areas.[7]
http://www.rabbit.org/care/pasteurella.html
http://reference.findtarget.com/search/Pasteurella/
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Pasteurella?qsrc=3044
Santa
Wise Old Thumper
And yet I have been told by other vets, including one of the country's top exotic specialists, that pasteurella is pretty ubiquitous and only causes a problem in compromised rabbits. Regardess of what some sites may say, it's well known now that pasteurella exists in virtually all rabbits unless they are bred and reared as part of a clinical pasteurella-free colony.
Santa lived with Dudley for over 5 years...she had chronic snuffles for all those years yet Dudley never sneezed once. I also bonded them in with my other pair for a while and neither of those ever sneezed once either
I wouldn't deliberately go waving a sneezy rabbit around other buns unnecessarily but I am more of the view and personal experience that pasteurella is present in the buns anyway and only causes a problem if the rabbit is already immunocompromised. On the second question - I have used bisolvon once a day and twice a day on Santa and didn't really find either was better or worse. I guess it's just trial and error to see what works better for the particular bun
it also says in my rabbit lopaedia book it it spread by direct contact between rabbits, and indirectly through bowels and drinkers contaminated with nasal secretions
yes not all rabbits become ill and carry it, some eliminate the infection and some become long term carriers
either way the rabbit needs to be isolated to avoid it spreading or avoid any risk of it spreading
yes not all rabbits become ill and carry it, some eliminate the infection and some become long term carriers
either way the rabbit needs to be isolated to avoid it spreading or avoid any risk of it spreading
hurricanhoney
Wise Old Thumper
And yet I have been told by other vets, including one of the country's top exotic specialists, that pasteurella is pretty ubiquitous and only causes a problem in compromised rabbits. Regardess of what some sites may say, it's well known now that pasteurella exists in virtually all rabbits unless they are bred and reared as part of a clinical pasteurella-free colony.
Santa lived with Dudley for over 5 years...she had chronic snuffles for all those years yet Dudley never sneezed once. I also bonded them in with my other pair for a while and neither of those ever sneezed once either
On the second question - I have used bisolvon once a day and twice a day on Santa and didn't really find either was better or worse. I guess it's just trial and error to see what works better for the particular bun
Totally agree with this. Merlin lives with Wesley who had head tilt and Wesley has no signs of this. My vet advised the same as yours about only compromised bunnies. Is it fair to keep a rabbit alone as a partner helps recovery.
Snowy
Wise Old Thumper
Excuse me?, I am not wrong, I have run a Sanctuary with chronically sick and disabled rabbits for quite some time now, some with Pasturella and some without, I regularly visit rabbit specialists and I prefer to take advice from them than outdated articles and I certainly wouldn't listen to your vet above a rabbit specialist
If you are so convinced can you explain why I have a Pasturella rabbit living with a non Pasturella rabbit for 4 years and the non Paturella rabbit hasn't got Pasturella? Can you explain why that Pasturella rabbit is still alive?
