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Jack's-Jane
28-12-2010, 07:59 AM
Please take time to read the links in this post.
Coccidiosis is a lethal disease. Everyone who keeps Rabbits should know about it and how to minimise the risk of your Rabbits being effected. This particularly applies to those who have several Rabbits (yes, that includes me), those who take in and rehome Rabbits, Rabbit Boarders and Rabbit Breeders.

When very new to keeping Rabbits I found out the hard way about Coccidiosis and it's horrific implications. I introduced 4 baby Rabbits obtained from different sources, they were 8 weeks old. Unbeknown to me one was poorly. An outbreak of Coccidiosis occured and despite prompt Veterinary attention 2 babies died, the other two were VERY ill and whilst they survived the initial illness they had longterm, life limiting problems. Neither made it to their 3rd Birthday :cry:

Coccidiosis is preventable in many cases, being aware of it is the first step. Should you be unfortunate to have to deal with an outbreak then Knowing how to try to minimise suffering and losses is our responsibility as Rabbit Care Givers.

If this thread is read by some as me 'thinking I am an expert' then so-be-it.
I am only interested in trying to pass on important information that we, as people responsible for the health and welfare of the Rabbits in our care, should know.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/171332.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Coccidiosis_Hedgehog.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Hepatic_coccidiosis_rabbits.htm

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/squirts.pdf

Immediate Veterinary Attention is ALWAYS ESSENTIAL.

Gemmapookie
28-12-2010, 08:04 AM
Thanks for the info Jane, I didnt know much about coccidiosis, it sounds horrible :(

As always your advise is correct and relevant. Those of us who want to look after our bunnies properly instead of burying our heads in the sand will be very grateful :wave:

Angela lou
28-12-2010, 09:46 AM
Thanks Jane, very informative as always :wave:

As a child we lost our first rabbit to this horrible disease :cry:

weeble
28-12-2010, 09:57 AM
Thank you Jane sounds like an awful illness. How common is it? Its not something I have heard a lot about

They are such delicate animals arent they. In some ways I am glad I didnt know all this when I first got B and C it would have scared me off

shay
28-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Please take time to read the links in this post.
Coccidiosis is a lethal disease. Everyone who keeps Rabbits should know about it and how to minimise the risk of your Rabbits being effected. This particularly applies to those who have several Rabbits (yes, that includes me), those who take in and rehome Rabbits, Rabbit Boarders and Rabbit Breeders.

If this thread is read by some as me 'thinking I am an expert' then so-be-it.
I am only interested in trying to pass on important information that we, as people responsible for the health and welfare of the Rabbits in our care, should know.

Who cares what some may think??!! I, for one, find your knowledge invaluable. :wave:

Rhian33
28-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Thank you Jane. I've not read the links yet as I'm using my phone not a computer but will do at the first opportunity. I know the basics but it's always good to know more and find out what has happened to others.

Grin
28-12-2010, 10:05 AM
Wow - something else i didnt know!! :?

I'm finding i am learning something new rabbit related day by day!! :shock:

Such delicate little creatures.

Thank you Jane! xx

hurricanhoney
28-12-2010, 10:07 AM
Thanks for the information I didn't know much about it either

Jack's-Jane
28-12-2010, 10:27 AM
I knew nothing about it either and my 'learning curve' was VERY painful. Both for me, but more importantly, for the Rabbits that suffered because of my lack of knowledge.

I just find it so upsetting to read/hear of scenarios that are a disaster waiting to happen and all attempts at imparting information are snubbed. So the ego of the owner/care-giver remains intact but the Rabbits suffer :cry:

The Duchess
28-12-2010, 11:24 AM
Thank you Jane.

I've not had any first hand experience but it's always at the back of my mind, in particular following on from Lymington and the risks involved taking in rabbits from such a situation.

I shall read the links later.

HS
28-12-2010, 11:29 AM
Thanks Jane. It's vital that we know of any risk to our bunnies, how to prevent and treat if necessary. Something I didn't know much about.

molly35
28-12-2010, 11:30 AM
Well I have learnt something new today and I'm always happy to increase my knowledge - as far as I am concerned post away :wave:

Santa
28-12-2010, 11:40 AM
So much useful information in those links - thought it might also be useful to add a bit from my own experience of cocci: fortunately not my own rabbits but horribly tragic nonetheless :(

Sometimes cocci does not show up straight away in the faecal tests (especially if it is the hepatic type). Just because you get a negative faecal test it does not mean you can rule out cocci. If there are other factors which suggest it, keep pushing your vet because by the time it's diagnosed later, it could be too late. Similarly, Post mortem (again especially of the hepatic type) does not necessarily show the organism, it dies within an hour of the rabbit dying so again, if your vet does a pm any time other than immediately after death and tells you there's no cocci there, it doesn't necessarily mean that's not the cause. If other factors point towards cocci even without a firm diagnosis, I would ask your vet for treatment anyway.

The cysts take 48 hours to become infective, so the single most important thing you can do to prevent its spread is to clean out thoroughly daily. Use different brushes/pans between buns or dip them fully in boiling water or Jeyes fluid between uses. When cleaning out, make sure that not a single poop or piece of hay gets missed. Especially if it's windy, all it takes is some stray litter to get to another bun's hutch and you've potentially transferred it to another bun. Ideally, wash the accommodation down with boiling water/jeyes fluid but obviously common sense is necessary here: Jeyes fluid is highly toxic so can only be done if you have the space, time and accommodation to do it safely, rinse it completely and not put any buns back in until it is completely dry and smell-free.

Try and minimise the risk of buns reinfecting themselves (e.g. by eating hay they have pooped on) by taking all hay off the floor and putting it in hay in hay racks off the ground and using bowls for food/veg if you don't usually. It will make the place look a bit sparse and boring but it's only temporary and better to be safe than sorry. If it's winter and you need to provide cosy bedding, use something like a cardboard box stuffed with straw to minimise the risk of them eating so much of it.

If you have lots of buns and have a suspected/confirmed case of cocci, I would suggest complete quarantine: no buns in or out for at least 21 days after the last case of illness. Do not accept any buns for boarding/bonding etc and do not let any buns go to new homes, even if they seem fine. It has quite a long incubation period and you could just be spreading it about.

According to Sharon Redrobe, the Harcourt-Brown book has a mis-calculated dosage for toltrazuril. She says it is (off the top of my head) listed at a 10* overdose in the FHB book, caused by a mis-translation from ppm to mg/kg. She says that at the correct dose, toltrazuril is the most effective treatment but some vets are shying away from using it because they have heard of it causing problems - but it is likely that these problems have been caused because of the overdose. Your vet may be able to get in touch with Sharon via the Nottingham vet school (or via the RWA as she spoke about it at an RWA conference a couple of years ago) to confirm this if they are unsure of doses.

Obviously I'm not a vet but I would push for treatment for all buns whether showing illness or not - the long incubation period means that it could easily be harboured by some who are currently well. If they are all treated at the same time you have more chance of containing any outbreak and ensuring that no more buns get sick, imo.

Jack's-Jane
28-12-2010, 12:18 PM
So much useful information in those links - thought it might also be useful to add a bit from my own experience of cocci: fortunately not my own rabbits but horribly tragic nonetheless :(

Sometimes cocci does not show up straight away in the faecal tests (especially if it is the hepatic type). Just because you get a negative faecal test it does not mean you can rule out cocci. If there are other factors which suggest it, keep pushing your vet because by the time it's diagnosed later, it could be too late. Similarly, Post mortem (again especially of the hepatic type) does not necessarily show the organism, it dies within an hour of the rabbit dying so again, if your vet does a pm any time other than immediately after death and tells you there's no cocci there, it doesn't necessarily mean that's not the cause. If other factors point towards cocci even without a firm diagnosis, I would ask your vet for treatment anyway.

The cysts take 48 hours to become infective, so the single most important thing you can do to prevent its spread is to clean out thoroughly daily. Use different brushes/pans between buns or dip them fully in boiling water or Jeyes fluid between uses. When cleaning out, make sure that not a single poop or piece of hay gets missed. Especially if it's windy, all it takes is some stray litter to get to another bun's hutch and you've potentially transferred it to another bun. Ideally, wash the accommodation down with boiling water/jeyes fluid but obviously common sense is necessary here: Jeyes fluid is highly toxic so can only be done if you have the space, time and accommodation to do it safely, rinse it completely and not put any buns back in until it is completely dry and smell-free.

Try and minimise the risk of buns reinfecting themselves (e.g. by eating hay they have pooped on) by taking all hay off the floor and putting it in hay in hay racks off the ground and using bowls for food/veg if you don't usually. It will make the place look a bit sparse and boring but it's only temporary and better to be safe than sorry. If it's winter and you need to provide cosy bedding, use something like a cardboard box stuffed with straw to minimise the risk of them eating so much of it.

If you have lots of buns and have a suspected/confirmed case of cocci, I would suggest complete quarantine: no buns in or out for at least 21 days after the last case of illness. Do not accept any buns for boarding/bonding etc and do not let any buns go to new homes, even if they seem fine. It has quite a long incubation period and you could just be spreading it about.

According to Sharon Redrobe, the Harcourt-Brown book has a mis-calculated dosage for toltrazuril. She says it is (off the top of my head) listed at a 10* overdose in the FHB book, caused by a mis-translation from ppm to mg/kg. She says that at the correct dose, toltrazuril is the most effective treatment but some vets are shying away from using it because they have heard of it causing problems - but it is likely that these problems have been caused because of the overdose. Your vet may be able to get in touch with Sharon via the Nottingham vet school (or via the RWA as she spoke about it at an RWA conference a couple of years ago) to confirm this if they are unsure of doses.

Obviously I'm not a vet but I would push for treatment for all buns whether showing illness or not - the long incubation period means that it could easily be harboured by some who are currently well. If they are all treated at the same time you have more chance of containing any outbreak and ensuring that no more buns get sick, imo.

Thanks so much for that really useful post Santa xx

Suzy B
28-12-2010, 01:16 PM
I was told Panacur could help coccidiosis but then another vet said there was no evidence. I took a poo sample to my vets for some tests and they said they do not do tests on poo. I have printed the info for my file thankyou.


http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b417/iluvrabbits/bobsII-1.gif
http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b417/iluvrabbits/IMG_0198-1.gif

Santa
28-12-2010, 03:54 PM
I was told Panacur could help coccidiosis but then another vet said there was no evidence.

Interesting point - I've not heard of panacur being given to bunnies for coccidiosis but it seems that it is given to dogs. I wonder why - anyone know? Is it because the strains differ and are resistant, or because the mode of action differs in bunnies, or because they're trying to keep panacur for e.cuniculi, or simply because they think the other drugs like toltrazuril are better? Or something else...

Anyone know??

bunnymadhouse
28-12-2010, 04:12 PM
After quite recently having two seperate cases of coccidia (totaly unrelated as different strains) in our rescue buns i agree that this is something anyone keeping rabbits should be aware of

However ... i MUST stress that with good quarentine and cleanliness (we used steam cleaning and boiling water ) It is resonably easy to eradicate . BUT all rabbits , even low risk ones must be treat at the same time .

It seems that ..as with EC , coccidia is present in the intestines of all rabbits and only causes a problem when the amount gets too great ..eg. in dirty conditions or a rabbit that has other problems which means the numbers of coccidia present in the gut/organs multiply as the rabbits immune system cannot cope .

stress and illness can be contributing factors ... our vet also thinks sudden temperature changes can also be a factor .

The truth is ..coccidosis could flare up at any time in any rabbit given the right conditions . It could possibly be one of the biggest causes of stasis .

bunnymadhouse
28-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Interesting point - I've not heard of panacur being given to bunnies for coccidiosis but it seems that it is given to dogs. I wonder why - anyone know? Is it because the strains differ and are resistant, or because the mode of action differs in bunnies, or because they're trying to keep panacur for e.cuniculi, or simply because they think the other drugs like toltrazuril are better? Or something else...

Anyone know??

no idea ... we treat with septrin .

Jack's-Jane
28-12-2010, 04:18 PM
Interesting point - I've not heard of panacur being given to bunnies for coccidiosis but it seems that it is given to dogs. I wonder why - anyone know? Is it because the strains differ and are resistant, or because the mode of action differs in bunnies, or because they're trying to keep panacur for e.cuniculi, or simply because they think the other drugs like toltrazuril are better? Or something else...

Anyone know??

Could it be that a different strain of coccidia effects herbivores than the one that effects carnivores :?

bunnymadhouse
28-12-2010, 04:47 PM
Could it be that a different strain of coccidia effects herbivores than the one that effects carnivores :?

Yes its different .. coccidia is species specific ..

coccidia also affects cats , cows , sheep , chickens etc .. :?..but each has its own strains .. and each species has several different ones .. i think there are 12 which affect rabbits ..but these dont effect other animals .

Santa
28-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Yes its different .. coccidia is species specific ..


But are the different strains so fundamentally different that some are sensitive to fenbendazole and others aren't? I don't know the answer, I'm just curious! Might see if Lou can ask William next time she does in :)

bunnymadhouse
28-12-2010, 04:53 PM
But are the different strains so fundamentally different that some are sensitive to fenbendazole and others aren't? I don't know the answer, I'm just curious! Might see if Lou can ask William next time she does in :)

I dont know ... but would be very useful to find out .

loppy ears
28-12-2010, 06:02 PM
Thank you very much for this information Jane, you are a wonderful bunny mum and I think an auntie to all the RU bunnys you look out for.

Rykat
28-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Thanks so much for posting this Jane. I also had heard about it but didn't know much about the illness so thank you.

And sod those who have nothing better to do than make comments. They aren't worth it x

Ambience
28-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Thanks Jane as always :)

Heather&Bart-MyLittleBuns
28-12-2010, 10:49 PM
Thanks Jane, Very informative :wave: x

chloemurray
28-12-2010, 11:01 PM
Thankyou so much for the information:D
It's invaluable to people like me who don't know reams and reams about all the different illnesses bunnies can get... those who ignore your advice are silly.:)

helgalush
28-12-2010, 11:35 PM
Thank you for the info. :)

purplebumble
29-12-2010, 02:42 AM
I had only heard of the intestinal one and its only young bunnys affected etc.

imagine my horror when we have our newest rescue bunny get ill and have to be pts 3 weeks later after arriving. she seemed healthy and happy until a few days before she got ill..she had excess cecals but we thought it was due to a fight between her and merlin. she ended up with a haematoma on her tummy and we and the vets put it down to that.
if the first two vets had taken her temp then theyd have known she was very ill. but by the time she was doing the excess cecals it was already too late.
the hepatic version was present but the vets and the necropsy and bristol vets all agreed it was not the cause of her being uill and dying...no indeed she had an infection cos of the fibrin strands around her organs and probs with her kidneys etc...and when she was speyed her uterine organs were too small. she didnt grow in the few weeks here,whereas her suster did.
it was pulmonary edema that killed her.

i have been advised by my vet who contacted richard saunders at bristol that we needed to go a different way than septrin. john chitty also advised baycox but not till a test was done.
bristol said no..the dose had to be given then a rest then the second dose and then a poo sample.

both said the dosgae in FHBs book was incorrect.

nothing could have been done for dazy-mae..it was a hidden collection of latent health probs that led to her demise...coccidia was just incedental the vet has said.

its broken my heart losing dazy-mae......blubells not been the same and has got aggressive from fear. saw her sister being medicated so much then being pts...so medicating her makes her panic.

i havent been thorough in the cleaning..its my fault..dealing with everything and my mums cancer...ive been so lax...
i need to test my steam cleaner tomorrow.

i have 3 free range bunnies..one of which poos anywhere and everywhere...one who only does it in the dog bed and litter tray. we have lino in the lounge....but ive not done enouh..just swept up and washed the floor with trigene....but need the steam.

thank you for all the info and input....nothing would have made us suspect it in dazy-mae...not the fosterers..not the rescue..not the vet who speyed ehr...not the three vets i saw with her before the 4th vet said she was so full of fever she shouldnt have been alive.

purplebumble
29-12-2010, 03:04 AM
any info on this oo-cide?

http://www.sphsupplies.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=515

marie_kubiak
29-12-2010, 08:23 PM
Fenbendazole is not effective against the rabbit Eimeria coccidia (and also isn't absorbed well from the GI tract so wouldn't get to liver-specific coccidia even if it worked). It acts by preventing microtubule formation so works well in worms that rely on these structures and also in E. cuniculi (presumably as the projections from the spores rely on microtubules to be formed) but not in coccidia.
We use Baycox and have had very good results if cases are treated early. Septrin is another option which is more readily available to vets but less fast-acting.
Sadly this is a disease that is often caught too late - once bunnies have secondary dehydration or intestinal bacterial imbalances then it is difficult to treat them successfully.

Jack's-Jane
29-12-2010, 08:30 PM
Fenbendazole is not effective against the rabbit Eimeria coccidia (and also isn't absorbed well from the GI tract so wouldn't get to liver-specific coccidia even if it worked). It acts by preventing microtubule formation so works well in worms that rely on these structures and also in E. cuniculi (presumably as the projections from the spores rely on microtubules to be formed) but not in coccidia.
We use Baycox and have had very good results if cases are treated early. Septrin is another option which is more readily available to vets but less fast-acting.
Sadly this is a disease that is often caught too late - once bunnies have secondary dehydration or intestinal bacterial imbalances then it is difficult to treat them successfully.


Thank you Marie :wave:

Maizey
29-12-2010, 08:38 PM
Jane you diagnosed my rabbit without even seeing her and after a poo sample you were right.my vet told me to use baycox after consulting GWR.I would just like to say and sorry for causing any upset this drug made both my rabbits,used at different times,anorexic/go into stasis.It did cure the coccidiosis though.Please can someone tell me why this is the preferred drug rather than septrin?

Maizey
29-12-2010, 08:42 PM
Fenbendazole is not effective against the rabbit Eimeria coccidia (and also isn't absorbed well from the GI tract so wouldn't get to liver-specific coccidia even if it worked). It acts by preventing microtubule formation so works well in worms that rely on these structures and also in E. cuniculi (presumably as the projections from the spores rely on microtubules to be formed) but not in coccidia.
We use Baycox and have had very good results if cases are treated early. Septrin is another option which is more readily available to vets but less fast-acting.
Sadly this is a disease that is often caught too late - once bunnies have secondary dehydration or intestinal bacterial imbalances then it is difficult to treat them successfully.

Sorry Marie,I have just read your answer after posting my question about septrin

marie_kubiak
29-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Jane you diagnosed my rabbit without even seeing her and after a poo sample you were right.my vet told me to use baycox after consulting GWR.I would just like to say and sorry for causing any upset this drug made both my rabbits,used at different times,anorexic/go into stasis.It did cure the coccidiosis though.Please can someone tell me why this is the preferred drug rather than septrin?

The downside to baycox is that it is very alkaline (it was originally designed to be in-water medication for poultry and isn't very soluble so the active drug is amalgamated with a strong alkali to allow it to dissolve). This high pH can be very irritant to the throat lining and cause a lot of discomfort if given neat. We mix it with an acidic liquid (usually coca cola!) to neutralise the pH first and haven't had any problems. However, as most bunnies are fairly unwell to start with it is very easy to assign any problems, especially non-specific ones like stasis, to the original disease rather than a drug side effect so they may not be linked at the time.
Septrin partial resistance is fairly common too which is another reason why I prefer to use baycox where possible.

Tasmin's MOB
29-12-2010, 09:51 PM
I have only recently found out about coccidiosis, it's something that most pet owners have never even heard of until it attacks so this thread is extremely useful. Thanks for posting it xx

purplebumble
29-12-2010, 11:45 PM
we were warned about the anorexia side effect of the baycox.....

ooh how much cola to the baycox?

i didnt realise it affected their throats:(

Santa
29-12-2010, 11:55 PM
It would be interesting to hear if those bunnies who have had anorexia problems with baycox have had the doses from the FHB book or whether they've had much lower doses, because Sharon Redrobe said at the conference that it can cause anorexia if overdosed but she hasn't found any particular problems with it at the correct dose (and of course because many vets consult the FHB book for the dose, they might not be aware that it's incorrect in there). So I'd be interested to hear how much those with problems were having - although from what Marie is saying, it sounds as if there are other reasons why there might be problems with anorexia etc anyway.

Thanks for the info on why panacur doesn't work, Marie. Makes perfect sense and good to know :)

purplebumble
30-12-2010, 02:47 AM
yes i guess thats the case. BUT i guess our vet had to say so anycase...like you get the side effects you could have with meds.:lol:

i am grateful our vet consulted john chitty them richard saunders....for the advice on drug...drug dosage etc.

well i could not see any anorexia in our three.....:oops::lol:

Maizey
30-12-2010, 08:52 AM
It would be interesting to hear if those bunnies who have had anorexia problems with baycox have had the doses from the FHB book or whether they've had much lower doses, because Sharon Redrobe said at the conference that it can cause anorexia if overdosed but she hasn't found any particular problems with it at the correct dose (and of course because many vets consult the FHB book for the dose, they might not be aware that it's incorrect in there). So I'd be interested to hear how much those with problems were having - although from what Marie is saying, it sounds as if there are other reasons why there might be problems with anorexia etc anyway.

Thanks for the info on why panacur doesn't work, Marie. Makes perfect sense and good to know :)

Hi Santa,
Honey who the baycox was originally for weighs just under five kilos and the pot I have left,says give 1.6mls for two days,I'm pretty sure I had to repeat the dose a week later.Blue my other bun was given it as a precaution.

Carrie14
30-12-2010, 10:11 AM
Thank you as always:) I am sorry for the losses you have experienced with this disease:cry:

Should I still have the rabbits I got 7 months ago in some sort of quarantine then? As in using different dustpans and brushes etc? But that would be crazy, because if it was a perfect world they would all be bonded now:?

I am sure my vet will be really pleased that I now know something new to diagnose anybun with:oops: But at least I know of its existence/symptoms now:)

bunnymadhouse
30-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Fenbendazole is not effective against the rabbit Eimeria coccidia (and also isn't absorbed well from the GI tract so wouldn't get to liver-specific coccidia even if it worked). It acts by preventing microtubule formation so works well in worms that rely on these structures and also in E. cuniculi (presumably as the projections from the spores rely on microtubules to be formed) but not in coccidia.
We use Baycox and have had very good results if cases are treated early. Septrin is another option which is more readily available to vets but less fast-acting.
Sadly this is a disease that is often caught too late - once bunnies have secondary dehydration or intestinal bacterial imbalances then it is difficult to treat them successfully.

this is very interesting ..

we used septrin ...had no further illness since treatment so presume it has worked ..

is the fact that Baycox is faster acting the only reason you prfer to use it ?

Jack's-Jane
30-12-2010, 02:24 PM
this is very interesting ..

we used septrin ...had no further illness since treatment so presume it has worked ..

is the fact that Baycox is faster acting the only reason you prfer to use it ?


I *think* it is because there is a likelihood of some resistance to Trimethoprim (one of the active ingredients in Septrin) :? Not certain though, so hopefully Marie will see your post at some stage xx

Santa
30-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Hi Santa,
Honey who the baycox was originally for weighs just under five kilos and the pot I have left,says give 1.6mls for two days,I'm pretty sure I had to repeat the dose a week later.Blue my other bun was given it as a precaution.

Interesting, thanks :) Does it say what concentration the baycox is (e.g. 25mg/ml or 50mg/ml or something else).

For anyone with academic logins, or if anyone wants to show their vet this information about drugs and dosing, you can view the abstract of the article by Sharon Redrobe et al here: http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/167/8/287.abstract

Maizey
30-12-2010, 06:04 PM
Interesting, thanks :) Does it say what concentration the baycox is (e.g. 25mg/ml or 50mg/ml or something else).

For anyone with academic logins, or if anyone wants to show their vet this information about drugs and dosing, you can view the abstract of the article by Sharon Redrobe et al here: http://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/167/8/287.abstract

Hi,
It just says 5% suspension.I can ask next time Im at the vets if that is any help to you?

Maizey
30-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Please could someone tell me the amount of cola you should add and if the mix should be left a while before administering?

Santa
30-12-2010, 06:16 PM
Hi,
It just says 5% suspension.I can ask next time Im at the vets if that is any help to you?

Thanks - I'm no expert and my maths may be very, very wrong (I'll list it out below for others to check and correct!), but based on this, I'd say it looks as if your bun had about 16mg/kg dose, compared to 2.5mg/kg that Sharon et al recommend in that paper. It's still lower than the 25mg/kg which the same paper says is a miscalculation/overdose in the FHB book, but may be enough to show those side effects, maybe?

Might be worth checking with your vets just in case they ever need it again or indeed if they give the same dose to other buns!

My possibly dodgy maths which I am very open to being told is wrong:

Baycox says that the 5% solution contains 50mg/ml (http://www.baycox.com/453/How-to-Use-Baycox-5.htm) This is for sheepsies so I guess it's possible that they have a 5% solution of a different strength, but then it wouldn't be 5%, would it...?

So in 1.6ml there is 1.6x50 = 80mg.

Bunny is 5kg so 80/5 = 16mg/kg.

prettylupin
30-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Are bunnies ok with the caffeine in cola? :?

purplebumble
01-01-2011, 08:15 PM
cant recall buns exact weight....

im sure bertie is 5.40kg........his dose is 1.1ml

cant recall merlins....his dose is 0.54ml

bluebells 4.08kg ......her dose is 0.82ml

i wouldnt know wjhere to start maths wise working out the dose.i was glad to see one vet had to resort to a calculator:lol:

the thing i am lost about...is what symptoms to look for in a coccidia laden bunny..the hepatic/billiary version.

cant find much online or in the books i have:(

does this mean we should all go get buns we adopt or buy or get given a course of baycox or septrin like we do when we panacur them when we first get them.

i never quarrantined dazy-mae and her sis bluebell as i knew theyd been under scrutiny all the time at the rescue and fosterers...usually i try a 3 week quarantine period when getting another bunny.

i got dazy-maes ashes back few days before xmas...22nd i think...i really felt id let her down....ive never had such an experience:cry:

i wish more was avaiable on billiary/hepatic coccidia infestation.:(

Maizey
01-01-2011, 09:02 PM
Thanks - I'm no expert and my maths may be very, very wrong (I'll list it out below for others to check and correct!), but based on this, I'd say it looks as if your bun had about 16mg/kg dose, compared to 2.5mg/kg that Sharon et al recommend in that paper. It's still lower than the 25mg/kg which the same paper says is a miscalculation/overdose in the FHB book, but may be enough to show those side effects, maybe?

Might be worth checking with your vets just in case they ever need it again or indeed if they give the same dose to other buns!

My possibly dodgy maths which I am very open to being told is wrong:

Baycox says that the 5% solution contains 50mg/ml (http://www.baycox.com/453/How-to-Use-Baycox-5.htm) This is for sheepsies so I guess it's possible that they have a 5% solution of a different strength, but then it wouldn't be 5%, would it...?

So in 1.6ml there is 1.6x50 = 80mg.

Bunny is 5kg so 80/5 = 16mg/kg.

Thank you Santa :wave::wave::wave::wave:

purplebumble
03-01-2011, 07:49 PM
BUMP THIS THREAD OR MAKE IT STICKY....PLEASE. We all think of coccidosis as being the disease of baby buns...but thats the intestinal one.

The scariest is the hepatic or liver version....anybun of any age can be affected.

Santa
03-01-2011, 07:54 PM
the thing i am lost about...is what symptoms to look for in a coccidia laden bunny..the hepatic/billiary version.

In my experience, the main symptom is sudden and rapid weight loss even though the bun is still eating well and acting normally. Poos have mostly appeared completely normal although I have also known it to manifest with jelly-like substance around the poos. Sadly I have also found that they seem to turn a corner and look as if they're starting to get better, only to suddenly die - a bit like myxi in that respect.

In any multi-rabbit situation, I would suspect cocci if there was sudden weight loss in more than one rabbit, if concurrent or especially if it seems to happen in turn (i.e. because each of them is 'catching' it from another bun so it is taking a bit longer to come through.

Hepatic cocci is so devastating, I too would love to see more information and awareness of it :(

Jack's-Jane
03-01-2011, 07:56 PM
I have asked for this to be made a sticky but no-one is replying to my PMs...........

chelle
03-01-2011, 08:14 PM
Thankyou so much for informing us of this disease...Im going to print it out & keep it as a reference....thankyou Jane!:wave:

purplebumble
03-01-2011, 08:57 PM
hmm wakey wakey mods/admin:wave: sticky PLEASE.

i wonder if theyll ever be able to do a blood test to show infection with hepatic coccidia like they do for EC one day?

for my experience in it....poor dazy-mae was so lively and friendly and playful it was great..then three weeks or so in we presumed it was stress as she was still eating n pooping and moving but for two days she went queit and i took her to the vets.shed been doing soft poos too..i thought it was stress from getting hold of melrin and beating him up....or the stress of bonding even tho it wasnt true bonding..just mixed playtimes and snoozes and meals..it works with buns who are basically laid back. suddenly she kept attacking merlin and the cats for no apparant reason. i took her to see a vet...then found a haematoma on her tummy that was from her beating up merlin.
so i took her to my local vet whos left to have a baby and was usually pretty good with buns. she never took her temp either. and that night i had to rush poor dazy-mae to the other vets that gem uses..and they took her temp...42C:shock: they tried to save her life..sat evening she was looking better..temp was almost normal and she was taking large feeds syringed. then sunday 1pmish vet rang...she was getting worse again..so by 3pm aft:shock:r say:shock:ng she was not improving at all we agreed to go have her pts. and we did..she wasnt in her body :shock:if you know what i mean:cry:

i have posted her post mortem results in health...if anyone can simplify it for me or make better sense than i could or the vet..how can pulmonary oedema occur with no chest/lung crackles?

Jack's-Jane
03-01-2011, 09:33 PM
hmm wakey wakey mods/admin:wave: sticky PLEASE.

i wonder if theyll ever be able to do a blood test to show infection with hepatic coccidia like they do for EC one day?

for my experience in it....poor dazy-mae was so lively and friendly and playful it was great..then three weeks or so in we presumed it was stress as she was still eating n pooping and moving but for two days she went queit and i took her to the vets.shed been doing soft poos too..i thought it was stress from getting hold of melrin and beating him up....or the stress of bonding even tho it wasnt true bonding..just mixed playtimes and snoozes and meals..it works with buns who are basically laid back. suddenly she kept attacking merlin and the cats for no apparant reason. i took her to see a vet...then found a haematoma on her tummy that was from her beating up merlin.
so i took her to my local vet whos left to have a baby and was usually pretty good with buns. she never took her temp either. and that night i had to rush poor dazy-mae to the other vets that gem uses..and they took her temp...42C:shock: they tried to save her life..sat evening she was looking better..temp was almost normal and she was taking large feeds syringed. then sunday 1pmish vet rang...she was getting worse again..so by 3pm aft:shock:r say:shock:ng she was not improving at all we agreed to go have her pts. and we did..she wasnt in her body :shock:if you know what i mean:cry:

i have posted her post mortem results in health...if anyone can simplify it for me or make better sense than i could or the vet..how can pulmonary oedema occur with no chest/lung crackles?

I have posted my thoughts re the PM results on the other thread :cry:

purplebumble
03-01-2011, 09:39 PM
thank you for your input jane.

i will never know and just feel guilty and sad.

in a weeks time the buns are due their next two day course of baycox...then i have to collect poo samples.:(

i hope it comes up under control.

been advised not to do vaccs until baycox finished and buns had a chance to calm down...of course merlins due his exam on the mass in his tummy too.

beccimarie
03-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Thank you jane :wave: its always good to read information about illness's then we can tackle it at the first signs!

I did look at the sites and sorry if i missed somthing but how can it be prevented? sorry if i missed it :oops: although i only have two buns you never know..

purplebumble
05-01-2011, 12:50 AM
:( sadly no there is no preventative measures.....only treatment.

some buns have no symptoms..other have.

if ever your buns have a fever or even gi probs..its worth seeing a vet..if theres ever any suspicion then they can do a fecal float test.....and then treat and then repeat test....

dazy-mae had the hepatic version..her bile duct and liver was affected.

she suddenly had gi issues..lost of soft poos but we put it down to the stress of the fight she had with merlin...she attacked him.

then she got very quiet....and then i noticed she wasnt eating or drinking as much as she had been and more soft poops than formed..so i took her to the vet..she was showing signs of beginning of gi stasis..but if only the first two vets had taken her temp.....:(

but by then of course shed have been on her way out anyway.
but she was only with us a few weeks...i was just learning their behaviour traits to see when theyre ill etc....i hadnt had her long enough.and it was just gi symptoms like a lot of my buns over the years have had.

infection is via infected bunny poops/cecals..or the surfaces their poo touches...even the grass.

buns are more likely to get the intestinal version...either way its not something ive dealt with before.....and i know others havernt either...forewarned is forearmed:wave:

Santa
05-01-2011, 11:09 PM
I did look at the sites and sorry if i missed somthing but how can it be prevented? sorry if i missed it :oops:

It's hard to totally prevent but you can minimise the risk by daily cleaning of litter trays. The spores take 48 hours to become infective so if all poops are removed daily, there is less opportunity for them to reinfect themselves. It's absolutely not foolproof especially as bunny poop has a habit of getting absolutely everywhere and it will get onto the hay and bedding as well, but it is a small step which may help to minimise the risk.

purplebumble
05-01-2011, 11:27 PM
http://petcaretips.net/coccidiosis-pet-rabbit.html

purplebumble
05-01-2011, 11:45 PM
mmm most places seem to suggest that the life cycle of the the coccidia is from time of infection to shedding of the oocysts....is roughly 4 to 14 days....:shock:

Gem
06-01-2011, 01:07 AM
We lost one years ago to Coccidiosis and three others were extremely ill, still no idea where it came from :?

One died at 14 months old under neutering but we think he had a heart problem anyway

One died of mxyi aged 3

And the one who was at deaths door when she arrived at the vets is still going strong aged 6

purplebumble
07-01-2011, 01:13 AM
:wave: hi hun. omg i didnt know it was a coccidia..or maybe i forgot:oops:

but who can forget you losing your beloved buns to myxi:(

ahh would that be a certain warrior bun;) give her a nosey rub xxx

Jack's-Jane
15-02-2017, 03:26 PM
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