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Sooty123
21-12-2010, 12:36 AM
Hi, Iíve been reading your forum today about sticky poo that is stuck to my bunny Iíve had my bunnies for approx 6 years now (Sooty and Poppy) I have never had a problem with Poppy but the last few months now Iíve had this horrible sticky STINKY poo (they are both house rabbits and have never been in any type of cage since I have had them) When I first smelt it, and upon investigation poppy had huge, huge lumps with oozing poo from the middle, got a fright of my life thought it was some type of tumour with poo around it.

Anyway I digress, I note on the forum to take them off pellets, and just use hay and veggies, I knew nothing about this subject and even the vet didnít help (Gove Lodge of all people), although didnít stop them from charging me £90.00 for the poo (no tumour thank god) removal and suggestion to buy the pellets they had on display. Digressing again... so, I and going to take the advice of taking away pellets. What I want to know is WHAT HAY and how much Veggie's (what type of Veggies?)
Iíve always given them pellets. Grass (real dried grass) and all types of Veggies and they love dried banana skins (I very, very seldom give them fruit, I found this gave them runny tummies)

WHAT HAY?
How much Veggie's?
What type of Veggies?
Is real dried grass better than Hay?
:?

I canít stand the sticky stinky poo any more (have to bath her every other day)

prettylupin
21-12-2010, 12:47 AM
Did the vet examine your rabbit? Before ever assuming that sticky bottom is diet related you must always have a rabbit savvy vet first rule out any underlying health issues. In a 6 yr old bun there are many possibilities especially as this is something new and sudden.

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 01:09 AM
I showed him the Rabbit, he then took her away, gone for some time, never saw him again a nurse came out gave me back Poppy asked what I fed her, once explained she said that sounds ok. In car now just pulling off she came running after me with some antibiotics said "didnít the vet speak to youĒ ďno, didnít see him again after he took poppy away to be cleaned upĒ The antibiotics I assume was to ward off infection as they had to shave her to clean her up, but left a lot of the solution on the upper part of her bum and caused the hairs around to matt took me forever to unmatt and could only do so for a short time cause her butt was getting sore after the third bath only a very little matting left, I would have thought that if her butt (above her tail is matted like that it would be rather sore to bend down to her butt (sorry) to scope up ..(Well whatever they scope up)
I had to go for a follow -up after three days or so to see if the shaving had caused any infection (although this was the same vet company, went to the small one close to me (as they were closed the day I discovered the icky butt) they said no infection but said that if it happens again would need to come back to discuss change of diet. I mean I took her there to get sorted yes but once sorted really needed to know why and what caused it. I have very little money, I now that sounds bad when itís my bunnyís health, but itís something I can do nothing about (my other bunny Sooty became blind and I soooo much wanted to have a op in hope to regain site, they said yes they could op as it was viable and it cost.... wait for it.... £2000.00 per eye... Digressing again).

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 02:10 AM
You got me worried now, on both the Vet visits they never indicated anything bad could be lurking round the corner, they never suggested any tests etc. I may not have much money but if something is wrong I will beg borrow and st,,,, (no wont do that) but if something is wrong Iíll get whatever funds I have too. When the problem didnít go away I thought that maybe I was giving them too much Veggies etc and when I started reading your forum discovered that I was giving them too much pellets (I had no idea that in some cases pellets may not be a good thing, I though pellets was what they were suppose to have along with grass) But now Iím worried! And its true Poppy has never had any health problems since I have had her (have had both since 8 weeks old) not like lovable Sooty.

Should I try for a while not giving any pellets and see what happens or do you think I should go back to the vet? She really, really stinks again... bath for her tomorrow.. or should I say later today.

prettylupin
21-12-2010, 10:30 AM
Poppy has what is called caecal dysbiosis and by the sounds of things malformed caecotrophs caked to her rear which she is either unable to eat or chooses not to. All caecotrophs should be correctly formed and eaten directly from the bottom by reflex so that you the owner never sees them. However, if they are malformed and soft bun will discard them, however, my main concern is that she is not only dysbiotic but that they are getting caked to her rear.

Yes too many pellets can cause this problem as can too much or certain vegetables, although generally vegetables are fine if bun has a well balanced caecum to tolerate them, all buns are different when it comes to veg, but for pellets/muesli too much upsets the caecal bacteria and can lead to this problem. BUT my concern is that Poppy has reached the age of 6 without any problems despite too many pellets which 'may' indicate there is something else going on.

It is impossible for me to say, I am not a vet and I can not see or examine your bunny, but the most common cause of bun being unable to consume their caecotrophs is dental or mobility related. Poppy may have teeth problems (particularly the molars) - did the vet examine her mouth with an otoscope? At the age of 6 she would also be a potential candidate for age related mobility issues such as arthritis, spondylosis etc which may mean she is unable to bend her spine/hips correctly in order to keep herself clean or consume her caecotrophs. Bacterial and protozoal infections of the bowel also need to be ruled out by faecal sample such as coccidiosis, or EC by blood test.
The malformed caecotrophs/caecal flora upset could be caused by hidden pain, again from dental, spinal, or some other cause. Has Poppy been spayed? Has she lost weight recently?

I really do think Poppy needs to go back to see a more rabbit-savy vet for further examination and some tests before assuming this is purely diet related. Yes if she will eat hay (please make sure she is able to eat hay and in sufficient quantities - do not allow her not to eat at all) then you can try cutting out the pellets and veg for a few days to see if things improve, but my concern is that if something else is going on she may not be able to or want to eat enough hay to keep herself going. If she does, then great, a few days of hay may give you some indication as to what is going on, however, another vet appointment asap is strongly recommended.

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 07:20 PM
Thanks for that.

If they are in pain (I notice on the forum they say hidden pain) would she still eat? I always go by Ďwell if they eating ok they must be okí

On the second visit (the follow-up) he did stick something in her mouth *donít remember it been anything like a scope but I may be wrong) in a sort of by-way he said there may be a slight problem with one of her teeth, but did not elaborate any further.

You say mobility problems
She runs and skips when outside, but have not let them out in the yard for a while because again in the second visit the Vet said that it is bad for rabbits to eat wet grass and can contribute to this problem. In winter time my back yard is a squishy horrible swap

Iíve always notice Poppy (and Sooty) bending down to clean themselves right up to the time of lumps but since the first visit I have never seen her even try to bend. I know it doesnít mean she isnít itís just that Iíve never seen her doing it.
Again on the second visit he did mention that she has lost weight but very little said it was not a problem, however, on the first visit they weighed her while still in box and second visit not in box, but the few days what with the trauma of the clean up (is wasnít a small clean up either, when I discovered the huge lumps I managed to get quite a bit off but the others was stuck real fast and decided not to try anymore in case it was not poo a tumour or something else) the injections and be bathing her every day etc I assumed that this could have caused the slight weight loss. (luckily Poppy does not mind too much to pick up, but if this had happened to sooty there is no way I could even get to look at his bottom let alone bath him, he was very traumatised and in a bad way when I got him at 8 weeks I would let anybody cause him any more strife and left him for while huddling in a quite dark corner in a box. Even after a long while he still went totally nuts if we tried to pick him up and as the years have gone by it has remained the same. I always get down on the ground and have a play or he comes and sits by my feet and paws my foot until I give him attention)

I was going to wait a few days with only hay (no other food to see if it improves - as I didnít know about the other problems that you have mentioned.

Should I bath Poppy before taking to vet (cause she really stinks now) or should I leave it and get Poppy (Iíll take Sooty to just to be checked) to Vet ASAP leaving the faecal as is, so the vet can take a faecal sample?

Going to try and see if I can get an appointment tomorrow

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 07:30 PM
Sorry forgot to mention that both of them were spayed as soon as they were old enough to have the op 8 or 10 weeks old (cant remember) but yes they are spayed.

Gemmapookie
21-12-2010, 07:36 PM
HI :wave:
Excellent advise of prettylupin :D
how much pellets do you feed her daily on her usual diet out of curiosity? X

Gemmapookie
21-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Sorry forgot to mention that both of them were spayed as soon as they were old enough to have the op 8 or 10 weeks old (cant remember) but yes they are spayed.

:shock: 8/10 wks old is extremely young for a spay :oops:
Id be inclined to get another vet I think :wave:

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 07:43 PM
Always gave them both a handfull each twice a day

I may be wrong about the age of them being spayed I do remember I had to wait for a while after I got them (the were both 8 weeks old when I got them) before they were old enough to be spayed.

prettylupin
21-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Don't have time to reply properly sorry but yes clean her up. Faecal samples need to be fresh anyway and she will be feeling very uncomfortable with all that caked on her bottom. A gentle bottom bath in plain warm water is all she needs and thoroughly drying and keeping warm, keep her as dry as possible elsewhere it's very cold and she needs to stay warm. If she is an outdoor bun she must stay inside for several hours until thorougly dry in her under fur before going back outside. You can also carefully cut away any bad mats using blunt end scissors (watch her delicate skin) or use sensitive baby wipes, but I prefer a gentle bottom bath if it is really bad.
I would go back to the vet asap as this is a new occurence and take a fresh faecal sample with you in a clear plastic sandwich bag for example. She needs further investigation before you can be sure this is diet related. I will try and read your post properly tomorrow morning.

Sooty123
21-12-2010, 11:22 PM
Thanks again.

They are both house rabbits and donít go in any type of cage at anytime (unless taking them to Vet) so going to bath her now in case I manage to get a Vet appointment tomorrow (being so close to xmas) will look forward to your reply tomorrow I really appreciate that. Ė sorry that I donít sound so clued up, :oops: itís just that although I have had them since May 2004 I have been lucky enough not to have any complicated problems (well apart from poor Sooty going blind) with them they have only needed to go to Vet for the regular jabs and nail cutting and now this poo problem I didnít get any worthwhile answers from the Vet. (Also changing vet) ... thanks again Ė will look at your reply tomorrow.:?

prettylupin
22-12-2010, 09:11 AM
I'm not sure what else to suggest other than a follow up vet appointment and possibly finding a more rabbit-savy vet if you felt that vet you saw did not appropriately address your concerns or mention further investigations into this new issue Poppy has?

Yes some rabbits will continue to eat through low-grade pain such as dental or arthritic pain.

Good luck at the vets and lets us know how you get on. I hope Poppy feels better for her bottom bath and that cutting down the pellets for a few days also helps her tummy, just make sure she is still eating plenty of hay and doesn't go hungry.

prettylupin
22-12-2010, 09:11 AM
Thanks again.

They are both house rabbits and donít go in any type of cage at anytime (unless taking them to Vet) so going to bath her now in case I manage to get a Vet appointment tomorrow (being so close to xmas) will look forward to your reply tomorrow I really appreciate that. Ė sorry that I donít sound so clued up, :oops: itís just that although I have had them since May 2004 I have been lucky enough not to have any complicated problems (well apart from poor Sooty going blind) with them they have only needed to go to Vet for the regular jabs and nail cutting and now this poo problem I didnít get any worthwhile answers from the Vet. (Also changing vet) ... thanks again Ė will look at your reply tomorrow.:?

Did Sooty go blind from EC cataracts? If so, Poppy may have active EC infection caught from Sooty's urine spores. :?

Sooty123
22-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Am still waiting for Vet to come back to me, have phoned and emailed your second reply to them including your last!

Yes it was Cataracts (donít know what EC is) No one said anything about the possibility of Poppy catching it!! God how stupid do I feel now! Should have investigated sites like this years ago Ė if so might have been a slight possibility of Sooty not going blind in both eyes.

When I noticed the white in Sootyís one eye I flew to the Vets, said that to stop this happening to the other eye I was to give him Panacur 10x5g Paste Syr, twice a year. He prescribed and I gave it to sooty one month later the other eye was white. (just one of those things I'm afraid)

prettylupin
22-12-2010, 01:05 PM
Am still waiting for Vet to come back to me, have phoned and emailed your second reply to them including your last!

Yes it was Cataracts (donít know what EC is) No one said anything about the possibility of Poppy catching it!! God how stupid do I feel now! Should have investigated sites like this years ago Ė if so might have been a slight possibility of Sooty not going blind in both eyes.

When I noticed the white in Sootyís one eye I flew to the Vets, said that to stop this happening to the other eye I was to give him Panacur 10x5g Paste Syr, twice a year. He prescribed and I gave it to sooty one month later the other eye was white.

Errrr..... :oops::oops: Please do stress that I am not a vet and just a bunny owner like yourself making suggestions not telling them how to do their job. ;)

Sooty123
22-12-2010, 02:06 PM
No thatís absolutely fine. I know you are not a vet as you have said before, and I have made this clear to the Vet. But helps to know what questions to ask Vet etc .there is a lot of things that I didnít know about, and although you may or may not be right in your opinions (for want of a better way of explanation Ė sorry absolutely no offence meant) it still helps me by having a wider view in the world of Rabbits. But whatever I read on this site I will always consult with the Vet before I get my knickers in a total unbearable twist. Did not mean to embarrass you by letting you know I sent a copy of your reply to the Vet it was only sent as a guideline and in due time the Vet I am sure would say thatís fine or itís not strictly true etc

prettylupin
22-12-2010, 02:08 PM
No thatís absolutely fine. I know you are not a vet as you have said before, and I have made this clear to the Vet. But helps to know what questions to ask Vet etc .there is a lot of things that I didnít know about, and although you may or may not be right in your opinions (for want of a better way of explanation Ė sorry absolutely no offence meant) it still helps me by having a wider view in the world of Rabbits. But whatever I read on this site I will always consult with the Vet before I get my knickers in a total unbearable twist. Did not mean to embarrass you by letting you know I sent a copy of your reply to the Vet it was only sent as a guideline and in due time the Vet I am sure would say thatís fine or itís not strictly true etc

No that's cool. Am happy to help :) Good luck and let us know how you get on x

Sooty123
23-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Went to the Vet today he checked her over didnít take any blood or faecal samples for testing, examined her mouth with telescope, felt very hard round tummy, sides and back, she weights 3.51kg and should be 2 something, listened to her heart (so going on a just hay diet, or though sooty doesnít know it yet but so is he) and gave me Protexin to give her, said could not find much wrong. if it carries on will go back in about two weeks. But when I bathed her yesterday although there as enough to justify a bath and it was rock hard, was not at much as before. I had already taken pellets away for two days before going to vet today, so crossing fingers itís just that and nothing serious.

Thanks again for all your views :)

prettylupin
24-12-2010, 09:45 AM
Well good luck with it all. I hope it clears up soon. I'm glad the vet found nothing too much to worry about. x